Upgrade for Cogage Arrow?

Tengis

Tengis

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 11, 2003
Messages
6,133
Ive had this cooler a long while... I bought a mounting kit to mount it on AM4. Temps during gaming sessions get to 80-85c on my 5800x. An old review here: https://www.techspot.com/products/cooling/thermalright-cogage-arrow.48237/

Ive been thinking about getting another similar cooler, something newer that could keep my 5800x at a lower temp. Thoughts? I may throw some new thermal paste on it with a couple better fans. Also may just swap out my case fans and 3d print sound shrouds to keep the hot air isolated and blown out of the case. Hmm.
 
I see the Thermalright Peerless Assasin can apparently hit 80c with the 5800x and the included fans.

After reading through a couple reviews, I think Im going to take some measurements and 3d print some shrouds to see what it does to my temperatures.
 
Which case? The nhd15 is on amazon for 110 usd, that's a good purchase for you, the price obviously dropped before the release of the nhd15 g2
 
Tengis said:
I see the Thermalright Peerless Assasin can apparently hit 80c with the 5800x and the included fans.

After reading through a couple reviews, I think Im going to take some measurements and 3d print some shrouds to see what it does to my temperatures.
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80C doing what? I was using a backup Scythe Fuma 2 for quite a while which I expect doesn't cool as well as most of the newer Thermalright coolers and outside of distributed computing programs maxing out the 5800x I didn't see 80C on anything. Even then I was usually under 80C unless AVX instructions were being used. Unless the case has terrible airflow it seems difficult to believe a newer Thermalright heatsink would hit those temps during gaming. It's extremely unlikely your rather ancient cooler would perform as good as a newer, quality cooler. If memory serves, the PA120 is one of the best heatsinks out right now and definitely is one of the best for the money.
 
Tengis said:
Ive had this cooler a long while... I bought a mounting kit to mount it on AM4. Temps during gaming sessions get to 80-85c on my 5800x. An old review here: https://www.techspot.com/products/cooling/thermalright-cogage-arrow.48237/

Ive been thinking about getting another similar cooler, something newer that could keep my 5800x at a lower temp. Thoughts? I may throw some new thermal paste on it with a couple better fans. Also may just swap out my case fans and 3d print sound shrouds to keep the hot air isolated and blown out of the case. Hmm.
Click to expand...
Cogage Arrow is very, very old cooler. I think it came out March 2009. But it's design was originally called Thermalright IFX-14 that came out March 2007 with IFX-10 (aka HR-10) backside cooler for CPU socket.

What fans are you using on your Arrow?

How hot CPU runs is directly dependent on how warm air is entering cooler. Basically every degree warmer air is entering cooler is same degree hotter cpu runs . (@ same load and fan speed). What this means if air temp in room entering cooler is 21c and reaches cooler at same 21c with CPU running at 70c. But if the air enters case and is warmed up 10c because of poor case airflow management than CPU will run at 80c.

I use a cheap indoor / outdoor digital thermometer with wired remote sensor or cheap fridge thermometer with wired remote sensor to monitor air temp entering cooler.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203545461241?epid=1639848961&itmmeta=01J0DWVPNR14DWEN7RCV7C0MND&hash=item2f644141f9:g:W4MAAOSwgn5hXEOI&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAA8O3nZme38TcfkUIMvQtiaHawv0b9VR3zrZu/8sOynYOeuSe6MGGARgEZvp6kCpJ1zdPELt9QzoejKYxprMtYocubHUWZDr4eyplKRWrjwAHFGZu5XcigB3WOirTqPVgPGmzhxXlW0Cypm1cnmgeTuley57+MiQ5fnrZr8yuWCLd0Fh8wHf0aCRmQ6XkvT/YnQ0TN81DplUjh+69+2gVSC78tvL5yd1cb0GnD+MAWdBbgHA8HHEf9QT5umXDrFRGO0IAyeynQmMzZVaicuWeTnJVO9DjrmzTFOfEOzaXBUQrGqxp2A/G8ZPW+J3eHEBWrPQ==|tkp:BFBM-OruvINk

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/27484905...Cw4JKAiHoxkH4ZtQOZ5UE8KpyVXGwoEMaAo0DEALw_wcB

Hang sensor a centered few inches in front cooler fan. Then run stress test and compare temp of air entering cooler (remote sensor temp) to air entering case (room temp).
 
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freeagentt said:
My 58X3D doesn't even hit 80 during Linpack Xtreme. And you are just playing a game?


No one is buying what you are selling.
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If there is money for rtx 3090, there is also money for a decent cooler, not some toy with buzzing fans like thermalright pa 120
 
freeagentt said:
You know that is a budget cooler right? Not their best.. you do know this?

Edit:

My PA120 does not have buzzy fans. Whatever those are.
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Well, I hope so, if that's the best they offer, then they're a disaster.
Let him buy thermalright, but a better one,which one is their best right now and how much money?
 
Tengis said:
80-85c on my 5800x.
Click to expand...
Sounds normal for a stock 5800x.

We've been doing this for nearly 4 years now, Zen3 is hot and 5800x with all 8 cores on one CCD is one of the hottest.

The solution is Curve Optimizer undervolting.

Stop worrying about temperature and worry more about clockspeed and benchmark scores. If you're in the realm of 15000 for Cinebench R23 multicore then its perfectly fine.
 
Strange bird said:
Well, I hope so, if that's the best they offer, then they're a disaster.
Let him buy thermalright, but a better one,which one is their best right now and how much money?
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If their dual towers can all outperform the big Noctuas for a third of the price, then does it matter which is their current best?

If you do not like the TR fan, how much does a good fan cost?
 
freeagentt said:
If their dual towers can all outperform the big Noctuas for a third of the price, then does it matter which is their current best?

If you do not like the TR fan, how much does a good fan cost?
Click to expand...
I don't know, I haven't really bought fans recently, but today everything is expensive, they save on materials wherever they can and charge more.
Every fan above 1500rpm is audible, if you don't hear the fan itself you will hear the air flow.
That's why nhd15 is the best because you immediately get everything in one.
 
Strange bird said:
I don't know, I haven't really bought fans recently, but today everything is expensive, they save on materials wherever they can and charge more.
Every fan above 1500rpm is audible, if you don't hear the fan itself you will hear the air flow.
That's why nhd15 is the best because you immediately get everything in one.
Click to expand...
Dude, I think you are brainwashed. And I honestly believe that you don't really know what you are talking about.
 
Strange bird said:
He has RTX 3090, that's why his CPU is warmed.
Click to expand...
This could be facts tho.


criccio said:
Sounds normal for a stock 5800x.

We've been doing this for nearly 4 years now, Zen3 is hot and 5800x with all 8 cores on one CCD is one of the hottest.

The solution is Curve Optimizer undervolting.

Stop worrying about temperature and worry more about clockspeed and benchmark scores. If you're in the realm of 15000 for Cinebench R23 multicore then its perfectly fine.
Click to expand...
Ill check with Cinebench and report back.

I ordered some more case fans that were on clearance on Amazon and Im going to design and 3d print some shrouds. I expect temperatures to drop overall but Im not sure by how much. I have a Thermaltake V21 case.
 
On my old system I had a 3090 that would sit pegged at 400W for hours with 5800x air cooled (at the time) and it was fine. The best thing you can possibly do with Zen3 is Curve Optimizer.
 
Strange bird said:
If there is money for rtx 3090, there is also money for a decent cooler, not some toy with buzzing fans like thermalright pa 120
Click to expand...
As stated, PA120 fans are not "buzzing fan"

In all the review testing PA120 cooling is 0-1c warmer than of NH-D15 at same/similar noise levels while costing a fraction as much. This is true of many other Thermalright (and other brand) coolers.


freeagentt said:
You know that is a budget cooler right? Not their best.. you do know this?

Edit:

My PA120 does not have buzzy fans. Whatever those are.
Click to expand...
A budget cooler that for all practical purposes is as good as NH-D15 costing a fraction as much.
On Amazon NH-D15 is $109.95 while Peerless Assassin 120 is $32.90. That's standard silver color.
Black NH-D15 chromax,Black is $119.95 while Peerless Assassin 120 Black is $38.90
 
Just got my new fans. Going to finish a few things on my computer and then pull it apart to replace fans and measure for some shrouds.
 
Tengis said:
Just got my new fans. Going to finish a few things on my computer and then pull it apart to replace fans and measure for some shrouds.
Click to expand...
What fans did you get?

As I remember 180mm and 200mm fans move almost no air / are mostly garbage. Makes it hard to optimize case airflow. :(
 
doyll said:
What fans did you get?

As I remember 180mm and 200mm fans move almost no air / are mostly garbage. Makes it hard to optimize case airflow. :(
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Some fans from the hotdeals section. They flow about 25cfm more than my current quiet fans... and I had another fan that flows significantly more that I have had for a while that I put on the CPU cooler.
 
Running Cinebench R23 with the new fan setup...

Im thinking this cooler just isnt adequate anymore - its not pulling heat away fast enough. Temps get up to 90 about halfway through the first part of the test. GPU isnt fired up and the air coming out of the case doesnt even feel warm. Maybe time for an upgrade...
 
Popped the side of the case off - my cooler isnt even warm to the touch. I got 14675 in Cinebench R23.
 
Have you considered your cooler's mounting contact/pressure might be really, really off or something happened to your paste? Depending on how long it will take for a new cooler to arrive, you might want to check...
 
Tengis said:
Some fans from the hotdeals section. They flow about 25cfm more than my current quiet fans... and I had another fan that flows significantly more that I have had for a while that I put on the CPU cooler.
Click to expand...
"25cfm more than" is no information or data. ;). We need cfm at same noise level and old fans.
Even then cfm spec is recorded with absolutely now airflow resistance .. no grill, no filter, no cabling, nothing .. and typically only at full speed. ;)

Tengis said:
Running Cinebench R23 with the new fan setup...

Im thinking this cooler just isnt adequate anymore - its not pulling heat away fast enough. Temps get up to 90 about halfway through the first part of the test. GPU isnt fired up and the air coming out of the case doesnt even feel warm. Maybe time for an upgrade...
Click to expand...
Did you remove, clean, apply new TIM and re-seat cooler?
I'd be very surprised if your Cogage Arrow was going bad. Heatpipes last a very long time. Some say "indefinitely", others say "Heat Pipes are inherently robust and are a purely passive system that does not wear down over time" or "heat pipes are highly reliable with a lifespan of 20 years." Even worst case your Cogage Arrow is less than 20 years old.

I'm still using two of the first Themralright heatpipe tower coolers released; Ultima 90 and Ultra 120 that came out in 2007. Both cool as good as when new. Ultima 90 has new fan and mount. I've actually done comparison tests of original Ultra 120 and Ultra 120 Extreme Rev.4 released in 2022 and found both perform same with same fans. "Same" being within 1-2c running same stress test with same air temp entering cooler. Well within margin of error. ;)

Tengis said:
Popped the side of the case off - my cooler isnt even warm to the touch. I got 14675 in Cinebench R23.
Click to expand...
Heatpipe coolers do not get hot. Warmest part is base and heatpipes near bottom of finpack. Heatpipes vaporize coolant at base. This expansion pushes vapor toward ends of heatpipe where it cools and condenses onto inside of heatpipe transmitting heat into fins where air moves it away from cooler. This is why fins are just barely warm. ;) Below is example of heatpipe at work.

1718708346680.png
 

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Old fans were some triple speed 120mm Antec fans, fairly quiet... I'm guessing somewhere around 50cfm as there is no part number. Came out of an Antec 900. I had three of them with two blowing in and one out above the video card.

CPU fan is a 140mm fan also around 50cfm, only .06amps.

Fan on the back of case is a 140mm triple speed Antec fan.

Replaced the CPU fan with one that is rated at .6amps, moves some serious air when it's spun up compared to the other one.

Replaced the three Antec fans with these and added a fourth: https://a.co/d/heU0mGS

I pulled the CPU cooler out a couple months ago.... thermal paste should be good. As far as mounting pressure goes, nothing seems off about the mounting but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.
 
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Best cheap way I know of to check case airflow performance and cooler performance is with wire remote sensor digital thermometer as explained in post #7. 2x cheap indoor/outdoor digitals give 4 readings. I set display with internal sensor in front of case intake with it's remote sensor in front of cooler. I set another display with internal sensor in back of case exhaust with it's remote sensor in back of cooler. This gives temperature readings of air in front of case, air entering cooler air coming out of cooler and air coming out of case.

Airflow is a fickled witch that does strange things. Sometimes changing one of the fans' speed (case intake, cooler, or case exhaust) up or down just a 100-200rpm will change CPU / GPU temp 5-10c. Link below is a basic guide to optimizing case airflow:
https://hardforum.com/threads/basic-guide-to-improving-case-airflow.1987938/
 
Upgrading your cooler sounds like a good move if you're hitting 80-85°C on your 5800X. A newer model designed for AM4 might handle the heat better. Adding new thermal paste and better fans could help too, but sometimes a newer cooler with improved heat dissipation is the way to go.
 
Good little read. I agree that if they want to keep charging $100+, they better start slapping on digital displays and stuff and cater to that crowd.
 
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