Update on Spire Thermax Eclipse II coolers

N

nanobeast

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
351
Update added 8-10-2010: PLEASE READ Post #27 and #28 OF THIS THREAD FOR INFORMATION ON SPIRE THERMAX ECLIPSE I & II COOLERS.


I am not sure where to post this. I was hoping for some feedback from you guys on my order.

Last week I was shopping for CPU coolers for two of the PCs I am building for myself this weekend. I placed the order from PC-Performance while I was on a trip to NY and had it shipped to my MA address via USPS priority mail so that I would have the coolers in hand when I begin to build the system.

The item I was interested in was Spire Thermax Eclipse II coolers. Before I placed an order online, I called them on Tuesday and gave them the model number (SP984B1-V2)listed on their webpage to cofirm that they had the items on onhand and it was ready to be shipped. I was put on hold and then they cofirmed that they had the coolers.

So I placed the order same day and it was shipped.

I got home today and was about to open the package when I noticed the packed invoice on the outside of the box. The invoice had "Spire Thermax Eclipse II ----- SP984B1-V2" with "II" and "V2" corssed out by hand. I ordered V2 and that is what it is printed on my invoice so I DID NOT OPEN THE BOX (not even the cardboard box it came in). They shipped me the crappy version I instead of the Version II I ordered.

I then went online to check my invoice and sure enough it says I ordered Eclipse II.

I then went to product page and noticed that now they have removed the V2 and "II" from the item BUT if you look at the reviews below they still link to V2 of the item. Very deceiving.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=28601

Well, I am very upset. They messed up my order despite talking with them over the phone AND they should have called me and not charged my card once they realized they do not have V2 of the item.

Why did they hand cross the item and ship me the wrong item anyways??

Can I just take this packge ato the local post office and refuse it since I have not opened it? I am not even interested in paying return shipping. When I call and if they insist on me paying return shipping, should I open up a case with my CC?
 
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nanobeast said:
Can I just take thsi packge and refuse it since I have not opened it?
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I am fairly certain that if you do not refuse the package when the driver delivers it, one party has to pay for return shipping. As for the rest, sucks that it happened but it could have been someone being lazy over the phone and not listening well or an honest mistake.

Call them first and see what they say.
 
so am i reading this right... you havent opened it yet? so it could just be a goof on the box? and you are all up in arms to return it already?
 
guitarslingerchris said:
I am fairly certain that if you do not refuse the package when the driver delivers it, one party has to pay for return shipping. As for the rest, sucks that it happened but it could have been someone being lazy over the phone and not listening well or an honest mistake.

Call them first and see what they say.
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I understand that mistakes happen but there is a professional way of handling it. Obviously they realised that they did not have the product when they were shipping it which is why the hand crossed out the "V2" part. The right thing to do (which most good sellers do) would be to call me once they found out the mistake and confirm with me if I wanted the other one instead of shipping out what I did not want and hoping I keep it.

That would have saved everybody time and hassel and I would have a cooler from somewhere else for my two systems.
 
I'm pretty sure you can refuse delivery if the package is unopened. However, you want to make sure you check with PCS before you go that route as some places will deduct the return shipping out of the refund as part of the refund policy.
Some shipping companies actually charge more for refused delivery packages, so they may print you out another label if they are at fault.
 
KaizerDan said:
so am i reading this right... you havent opened it yet? so it could just be a goof on the box? and you are all up in arms to return it already?
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They crossed out the "V2" and "II" part on the invoice outside AND they updated their webpage by removing the "V2" and "II" from item. It would be pretty silly of them to do this if they actually have these in stock and shipped it out to me.
 
lgestle said:
I'm pretty sure you can refuse delivery if the package is unopened. However, you want to make sure you check with PCS before you go that route as some places will deduct the return shipping out of the refund as part of the refund policy.
Some shipping companies actually charge more for refused delivery packages, so they may print you out another label if they are at fault.
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Yeah I will call them first. If they insist on me paying for shipping despite their fault, how should I respond? I am looking at some of their revies and it seems quiet a few people have had bad experiences with them on wrong/defective orders.
 
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nanobeast said:
Yeah I will call them first. If they insist on me paying for shipping despite their fault, how should I respond?
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Calmly tell them that you will not pay for their mistake, and if they waiver in their response then calmly remind them that once you contact your credit card company that they will also NOT allow you to pay for their mistakes.

Upon being reminded of that fact customer service reps often fall back into line and become more agreeable.

nanobeast said:
When I call and if they insist on me paying return shipping, should I open up a case with my CC?
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Only if Performance PC doesn't send you a pre-paid shipping label, but otherwise yes, contact your CC company and tell them everything. Maybe notify them anyway just so they can have record of it.
 
SJetski71 said:
Calmly tell them that you will not pay for their mistake, and if they waiver in their response then calmly remind them that once you contact your credit card company that they will also NOT allow you to pay for their mistakes.

Upon being reminded of that fact customer service reps often fall back into line and become more agreeable.

Only if Performance PC doesn't send you a pre-paid shipping label, but otherwise yes, contact your CC company and tell them everything. Maybe notify them anyway just so they can have record of it.
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Thanks! I will do this.

BTW, READ their fine print!! They charge 15% restocking fee even if its defective item and they do not pay for return shipping on any order.

I do not think I will be ordering from them again.

These policies include but, but are not limited to the following: If you are not satisfied with your component purchase, you must contact us within 3 business days of delivery to be eligible for a refund or exchange. THERE WILL BE ABSOLUTELY NO REFUND OR EXCHANGE OF ANY CUSTOM SLEEVED POWER SUPPLY OR MODIFIED CASES! We also cannot accept back any water cooled parts or kits that are used or have been installed. If you have a defect or problem with an installed water cooled part then the support and RMA must be direct through the manufacturer. Any products that are cut to order ie. sleeving, tubing, etc. cannot be returned for any reason. We do not accept returns for unneeded hardware so please be sure of the amount BEFORE ordering. All returned items must be shipped prepaid in their original cartons. Any items returned must be in resellable condition without any scratches, fingerprints, or other damage. We reserve the right not to accept a refund request on custom orders, if we feel that we would not be able to resell them. Performance PC's, Inc. will assess a 15% restocking fee against the customer's account on all returns for refund. This includes refunds for defective items. We will replace a defective item but, if you choose a refund it will be subject to restock fees to cover all the credit card fees associated with processing the order. Performance PC's, Inc. will not refund to the customer the original shipping charges on any returns. The customer must contact Performance Pc's within 72 hours (not including weekends) from the delivery date of any shortages or mistakes in an order. Any notifications of shortages/wrong items after 72 business hours will NOT be honored!
 
........Performance PC's, Inc. will assess a 15% restocking fee against the customer's account on all returns for refund. This includes refunds for defective items. We will replace a defective item but, if you choose a refund it will be subject to restock fees to cover all the credit card fees associated with processing the order. Performance PC's, Inc. will not refund to the customer the original shipping charges on any returns. The customer must contact Performance Pc's within 72 hours (not including weekends) from the delivery date of any shortages or mistakes in an order. Any notifications of shortages/wrong items after 72 business hours will NOT be honored!
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I'll never do business with Performance PCS again if this is their policy.

Damnit, they have a sale of ratpadzGS for $2.50 each:rolleyes:
 
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nanobeast said:
Thanks! I will do this.

BTW, READ their fine print!! They charge 15% restocking fee even if its defective item and they do not pay for return shipping on any order.
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NP

I'll say one thing, their fine print can say whatever it wants but once they make a mistake and expect you to pay for it, those so called "rules" go out the window once you get your CC company involved.

It's funny because in the recent past i used to monitor phone calls made to customer service reps of an un-named company (that i did not work for, long story). It was funny when the merchant would mess something up then only offer some silly $20-$50 gift card as compensation for their customer they left hanging. More often than not these customers would remind this company that they paid with visa/amex and the customer service reps would change their song and fall right into line...they knew they had no choice.

Cash is no longer king imho, if you pay merchants with cash then you are left holding the bag when something goes wrong. For more expensive items such as furniture and electronics i totally recommend that people purchase them with credit cards (i'm not referring to most debit cards either, do not get them confused), one with a rewards system preferably, since you have more protection as a consumer that way.

Good luck but i know you'll get it sorted out, quickly hopefully.
 
SJetski71 said:
Cash is no longer king imho, if you pay merchants with cash then you are left holding the bag when something goes wrong. For more expensive items such as furniture and electronics i totally recommend that people purchase them with credit cards (i'm not referring to most debit cards either, do not get them confused), one with a rewards system preferably, since you have more protection as a consumer that way.
.
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Very good advice!!

Too all reading this,

Always pay using credit card and not debit card especially if buying from a merchant the very first time. Debit cards do not offer you protection.
 
Performance PCS is a good company. Although if they actually packaged up something you didn't order then that is wrong. As to their return policy. That is null and void in a situation like this. They CANNOT charge a restocking fee for sending you something you didn't order. If you have a copy of the receipt from when you did your order specifying the proper part number then they have to give you those items or a full refund for your purchase. This is including the shipping. Now they will offer if you want to put the refund credit toward another purchase I'm sure (what company doesn't) though you have the right for them to void the charge.
 
scgt1 said:
Performance PCS is a good company. Although if they actually packaged up something you didn't order then that is wrong. As to their return policy. That is null and void in a situation like this. They CANNOT charge a restocking fee for sending you something you didn't order. If you have a copy of the receipt from when you did your order specifying the proper part number then they have to give you those items or a full refund for your purchase. This is including the shipping. Now they will offer if you want to put the refund credit toward another purchase I'm sure (what company doesn't) though you have the right for them to void the charge.
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I think their shipping is ridiculous. One time I made an order that was about $70. The shipping jacked up to $32!!! I called them and asked them what the heck was up, and they said sometimes their shipping calculator on the website messes up, and they would take $17 off the price of the shipping for me. I ordered, and sure enough, they took care of me. The items arrived perfectly - except for one. I ordered a hard drive adapter and it DID NOT come with one of the parts that was pictured as included. It was a part I would've liked to have, but wasn't a big deal. I think they may have sent me a free fan or something to make up for it ... shoot, I don't even remember if I complained about that or not! :rolleyes:

But at least they took care of me on the shipping. They were pretty friendly and straightforward to deal with over the phone. I would certainly call before doing anything drastic. But why is this in hot deals, anyways??
 
PPCS is pretty good, someone goofed up and they will make it right. Call them Monday and if necessary ask for Hank the owner. I bought an item which was supposed to include an item after the company made a revision and it didn't have it. I called them and explained what had happened (they didn't even know the company had made the revision since the company didn't tell anyone), they called the company for me and I had the part within a few days.

On a side note, I agree with SirKronan, this should be in some other section, not the "Hot Deals" section.
 
This forum doesn't have a General or Rants section. I looked last night when I saw this post to suggest where it should be posted. This wouldn't even belong in the Hot Deals Discussion section. I'm surprised there isn't a General section or something like that.
 
scgt1 said:
This forum doesn't have a General or Rants section. I looked last night when I saw this post to suggest where it should be posted. This wouldn't even belong in the Hot Deals Discussion section. I'm surprised there isn't a General section or something like that.
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We do, and it's located here. I think we've been allowing some e-tailer discussions in the hot deals discussions forum though, so I'll move it here, if I'm wrong KK or Rags can shut it down. OP, if you're not sure where to put something, you can always PM a mod and ask before you drop it in the wrong area.

I'm sorry, but if any company ever sends me something I did not order, I'm not paying a dime to fix their mistake. Based on their own T&C's, I would NEVER shop at PPC.

Call them up, if they refuse to fix the error, file a charge back and give an accurate description of your experience on reseller ratings.
 
nanobeast said:
Always pay using credit card and not debit card especially if buying from a merchant the very first time. Debit cards do not offer you protection.
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That is 100% wrong, visa and mastercard debit cards have exactly the same merchant agreement as credit cards, and follow the same rules on charge backs.
 
Oldie said:
We do, and it's located here.
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Well see you can't just see that while scrolling through the forum. If people don't know about it they can't very well pay for it. I think it should be viewable in the list of forums then when they click on it they get prompted with a message stating they have to pay for access to use it. Which I believe thats what I got while just skimming my ADD eyes over the announcement. LOL
 
scgt1 said:
Well see you can't just see that while scrolling through the forum. If people don't know about it they can't very well pay for it. I think it should be viewable in the list of forums then when they click on it they get prompted with a message stating they have to pay for access to use it. Which I believe thats what I got while just skimming my ADD eyes over the announcement. LOL
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Well see....if you can't find it on your own, we probably don't really want you in there. :D

This shows up at the top of every forum, don't blame us if you don't bother to click on it. With 262,000+ views though, maybe it's just you. ;)

subaccess.png
 
just today I was thinking of ordering a Lian Li PC-A05B with custom parts for it from them. I’ll make sure to call and confirm everything before paying.
 
Holy fuckshit batman.. Ever thinking of simply Calling them before raising a shitfit on an internet Forum.. I have Dealt with Performance-Pcs before & even had a mistake happen. The gal I got on the phone was more then willing to make it right & Then after we had came to a resolution (which was very painless mind you) she even called me back a few minutes later as she thought of a better way to resolve it & wanted to know if I was ok with it. & Maybe they didn't realize what they had was any different then what you ordered other then the color, since looking at the specs from spire I cant tell why the non v2 is so shitty as you put it. In-fact the 2 are virtually identical unless actual testing is done. So maybe they realized there was a problem when they pulled your order & just wanted to correct it going forward, but then figured that it was the same cooler with a different model number.

Bottom line.. Just call & politely talk to them like they are human beings.
 
bastage said:
Holy fuckshit batman.. Ever thinking of simply Calling them before raising a shitfit on an internet Forum.. I have Dealt with Performance-Pcs before & even had a mistake happen. The gal I got on the phone was more then willing to make it right & Then after we had came to a resolution (which was very painless mind you) she even called me back a few minutes later as she thought of a better way to resolve it & wanted to know if I was ok with it. & Maybe they didn't realize what they had was any different then what you ordered other then the color, since looking at the specs from spire I cant tell why the non v2 is so shitty as you put it. In-fact the 2 are virtually identical unless actual testing is done. So maybe they realized there was a problem when they pulled your order & just wanted to correct it going forward, but then figured that it was the same cooler with a different model number.

Bottom line.. Just call & politely talk to them like they are human beings.
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i dont think the OP ever said he would call and talk to them any other way. PP is a good place to order stuff from. but should have shipped the OP what he asked for. and if they were not should have informed him first. regardless of what the specifications are.
 
First of all how does he even know he has the wrong one? He did not even open the package to check right? Open the package and check and let us know.

It has been a few months since I have ordered from Performance but they always put marks on the shipping paper that mean somebody put the part in the box and somebody else checked the person put the right thing in the box. Is that what the marks are?

And I do not see any difference but color between the two heat sinks on Spires website anyhow.
 
just for the rest of us who are unaware, what is the difference between version 1 and 2 of that heatsink? is the difference a big enough deal to warrant all this?

i know with letters or spam mail, you can write "REFUSED -RETURN TO SENDER" on it and it will be shipped back to the sender. not sure how packages work, you might be able to do the same. the sender may be charged for return shipping. and the company will definately charge you the 15% restocking fee (and possibly return-shipping fee, if any) if you do this without their permission.

someone commented earlier that the restocking fee would be "void" in this situation, which is not true. its their terms of service, they can make any rules whatsoever as long as they dont break any laws. they can require you to name your first-born after the company if they wanted to. if you dont agree with their terms, dont do business there. case and point - the immortal souls clause.

just open the shipping box to make sure of what is inside. as long as you dont open the retail package, it makes no difference. call them and sort it out, they are a fairly reputable company and should have no problem working with you.
 
ghost6303 said:
just for the rest of us who are unaware, what is the difference between version 1 and 2 of that heatsink? is the difference a big enough deal to warrant all this?

i know with letters or spam mail, you can write "REFUSED -RETURN TO SENDER" on it and it will be shipped back to the sender. not sure how packages work, you might be able to do the same. the sender may be charged for return shipping. and the company will definately charge you the 15% restocking fee (and possibly return-shipping fee, if any) if you do this without their permission.

someone commented earlier that the restocking fee would be "void" in this situation, which is not true. its their terms of service, they can make any rules whatsoever as long as they dont break any laws. they can require you to name your first-born after the company if they wanted to. if you dont agree with their terms, dont do business there. case and point - the immortal souls clause.

just open the shipping box to make sure of what is inside. as long as you dont open the retail package, it makes no difference. call them and sort it out, they are a fairly reputable company and should have no problem working with you.
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Care to show where in their TOS it states they can ship you something you don't pay for. I don't believe it states they can send substitutions.

In that case if he sends it back to get the correct product then they CANNOT charge a restocking fee. That is only in effect for if your returning something not if they send the wrong product. That would be their bad and therefore their dime.
 
So here's the update (long but I wanted to clear things up for everyone).....

Before I get into the details, I want to point out why I want to make sure that the two coolers I had ordered are in fact Version 2 and not Version 1.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/07/15/q310_cpu_heat_sink_air_cooler_roundup/8

If you look at the review done at hardopc you will notice it says, "You will want to be careful when purchasing these, as the first version is of course very similar."

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Spire-TherMax-Eclipse-CPU-Cooler-Review/964/8

If you look at the review performed by hardwaresecrets, you will notice it says, "Therefore TherMax Eclipse is not a good cooler. Maybe not it is not a coincidence that Spire released TherMax Eclipse II, a product virtually identical to the model we tested, which may mean that the manufacturer knows about the low performance of the first version and improved it in a second incarnation."

Obviously these two statements indicate that the previous version was an inferior one and the difference goes beyond just the "colors", although neither address as to why. (I should also add that both these sites are wrong and if you read on you will know why).

So.....

I called PerformancePC a number of times today. I also left a voicemail but did not get a response but once I emailed them and explained why I was calling, I did hear back from them.

I got two emails in succession. One asking me to post the pics of the product as they said it is likely the right one but with old box, and other telling me that they had contacted Spire and were told that version two had nickel plated body.

In the second email they also said that they read the posts in hardware forum and would prefer if they were contacted first before being "slandered". First, my intention when starting this thread was not to slander them (looking back, I should have picked a better thread title) but to make sure I got what I had ordered and what steps I could take if I didn’t receive the right product. I was upset because I had set aside last weekend to build my PCs and they were put on hold because of coolers. Of course, it does not help my confidence when after talking with performancePC and confirming that they had "V2" model in hand, I get a box shipped to me with "V2" and "II" crossed out in the invoice. I responded to performancePC that as a customer who is paying for an item I too would have appreciated if they had called me and explained to me what their reasoning was for changing the invoice and updating the webpage. (BTW, I noticed that the webpage has been reverted once again to include "II"). Their tones in email was also not deserving of any customer service awards (which others have also indicated based on resellers ratings)but I can live with that as long as I get straight up answers and to their credit, I did.

Anyways....

I then asked them what they wanted a pic of and if they wanted me to unbox the item. I was told that they just wanted the pic of the box and if it says "Eclipse" then I have version 2. That did not make sense because if you compared the pic of V1 and V2 item on Spire's own website, they both have "Eclipse" on it.

I told them this and then they responded with an attachment which was an email conversation between Spire and PerformancePC. In the email, Spire told PerformancePC that their item was V2 because it was coated.

This is where it got tricky because the followup pics (not the ones on top) of both V1 and V2 on their website showed that both version were coated and I forwarded this info to PerformancePC [Those pics have been removed from Spire website and if you read on you will know why]. I also gave the link to hardwaresecrets.com review of version I which showed it as coated. PerfromancePC forwarded the information I gave them to SpirePC.

As a followup, I also sent PerfromancePC and SPire this email,

"As a followup to Performance-Pcs and Spire corporation,

Here is a link to another review of the Version 2 Eclipse.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/6-coolers_4.html

I call your attention to two different pictures in their review:

1) If you click on the first picture of the box, you will notice that it clearly has "V2" on the model num ber right above the UPC code.

2) If you cscroll down below and click on the picture which shows the model number on the top of one of the fans, again you will notice that it clearly says "V2" after the model number.

The coolers I received do not show this "V2" anywhere, unfortunately."



I got this email from SPIRE an hour or so ago.....

"Hi [PerformancePC & nanobeast],

Thanks for pointing out the image errors on the flyers posted on our website.
We’ll remove these (or maybe the whole cooler) from our website.

As I also told [nanobeast] when he emailed us, it’s 100% sure that he owns the Thermax Eclipse II (V2) because we have never shipped V1.

When we had completed V1 our head thermal engineer, came up with the idea to coat the heat-sink and heat-pipes so it would not oxidize and preserve its looks.
That’s why we created V1 and V2. V1 has never been sold nor shipped, our focus is only on V2. The problem is that our QC team did not check the packaging carefully and the first shipments (including to reviewers) went out in the original box which was not updated with the correct product codename and images.

Regarding Hardwaresecrets, my assistant did point out that they have received V2 but they did not update this.
They have received another sample of V2 because their sample did not perform up to our standards and as tested on a dozen other sites.

I hope this helps and please accept our apologies for the inconvenience caused.

Thank you,
XXXXXXX

Spire China Electric Corp.,Ltd
Bldg B 7~8FL Houhai Blvd
Dongjiaotou Industrial Park
Shekou, Nanshan area
518067 Shenzhen, China
"

As you can see now, Spire have updated the pics on the Verison I Eclipse on their website and removed the pics of the coated one being shown as first version. That was fast!

Also, based on what Spire is saying, hardwaresecrets never had version I in hand. They just had a defective Version II.

Spire is also saying that they never shipped out version I so I think HardOCP review should be edited to remove that warning message "You will want to be careful when purchasing these, as the first version is of course very similar" in the conclusion section.

I have been reassured by Spire that I am proud owner of two Spire Thermax Eclipse V2 coolers in my hand. As you can see I had been really waiting this cooler for a long time and I am glad I dont have to return mine.

PerformancePc and Spire, thanks for responding to my concerns.

(Please note that performancePC product page has once again been updated to include V2 as part of the information. Rest assured these are version 2 and you may place orders at performancePC for a Kick-Ass Eclipse cooler.)
 
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Further update:

Spire has just updated their product description page with this notice...

"Notice: The first batch of Thermax Eclipse II have been shipped in the older box which is missing the II on the box.
But rest assure that you have received version II, you can easily tell by the black nickel color of the heat-sink.
If the heat-sink is dark nickel plated you certainly have received version II. We apologize for any inconvenience caused."

http://www.spirecoolers.com/main/product_detail.asp?ProdID=938
 
I am requesting the mods to update the thread title to,

"Update on Spire Thermax Eclipse II coolers" or something more appropriate.

This is so that other folks who are as confused as I was will have the right information and so that people do not judge PerformancePC based on this transaction which involved all parties looking for answers.

Thank you.
 
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