unethical business practices.

[absolute_zero]

this is a "save yourself the trouble" story about attempting to buy a intel xeon w3520 from Boyds Imaging Products, and how unethical their business practices are. through google shopping i was looking for the best price on the aforementioned cpu. i came across iboyds.net, a website with a dated but reasonably legit appearance--who was offering what i wanted for a thoroughly decent $263 and change. i placed my order, payed via paypal, and recieved order/payment confirmation from both. today i receive an email from paypal telling me my order has now been cancelled, a refund is in progress, and for any further information to call iboyds at 800-842-5196. i call. busy. i call again, get through, and get a pre-recorded advertisement for a chat-line. i call one more time, same thing. if they were out of stock, backordered, or offered any possibly legitimate excuse i don't think i'd be so bent out of shape--but when i check their website to see if any more information is to be had (there isn't really)--i see the very same product with the very same manufacturer's part number offered now at a nearly $50 price hike. thanks for tying up $260 of my dollars fellas.

in summation, stay away from this terrible business.

there, i much feel better getting that out.

 

[x509]

this is a "save yourself the trouble" story about attempting to buy a intel xeon w3520 from Boyds Imaging Products, and how unethical their business practices are.

...

in summation, stay away from this terrible business.

there, i much feel better getting that out.

I had a problem recently with a camera website, which "accepted" my order, but I never received a confirmation. That was on a Saturday, and Monday I tried to call them, but the phone was out of service. This seemed "BAD" so I called the bank. They said it's quite possible the site was taken over by cyber-crooks after the store (probably) went out of business. So the bank put a stop on the order and then issued a new card to me just in case the real purpose of those bad guys was to get your CVV2 number.

End of story, except that I use several online services which automatically charge my credit card each month. Whammo! the charges got rejected and I had to deal with that. But that's a small price to pay for not having your credit card hijacked.

 

[Headcase_Fargone]

Online camera stores (especially those based in New York for some reason) I've heard are very commonly scam sites. It's such a common phenomenon that some mainstream news source even picked up the story a few years back. Apparently you have to be even more careful ordering cameras online than you do PC components. Kind of strange. Maybe more photographers are suckers?

 

[ordovician]

It's a good thing you used Paypal. Paypal is alll for the buyer these days.

 

[kirbyrj]

It's a good thing you used Paypal. Paypal is alll for the buyer these days.

That's both good and bad. I sold a laptop on ebay, and the buyer was essentially a crook who bought a bunch of laptops, made up stories and extorted more money out of the sellers (hey the battery is dead, give me $50 or else I'll give you negative feedback). He then resold the laptops at a significant markup in a local store in Chicago (amazing what you can find out on the internet). Ebay/Paypal sided with the buyer without ever looking at the evidence, which included a long list of the other sellers he had done this to already.

 

[DanNeely]

I think it's more that high end camera gear has much higher margins.

 

[ordovician]

That's both good and bad. I sold a laptop on ebay, and the buyer was essentially a crook who bought a bunch of laptops, made up stories and extorted more money out of the sellers (hey the battery is dead, give me $50 or else I'll give you negative feedback). He then resold the laptops at a significant markup in a local store in Chicago (amazing what you can find out on the internet). Ebay/Paypal sided with the buyer without ever looking at the evidence, which included a long list of the other sellers he had done this to already.

Wow, what piece of work. I bet his mother would be proud.

 

[kirbyrj]

Wow, what piece of work. I bet his mother would be proud.

I called ebay 3 times and told them about this and then I contacted other sellers (from his feedback score) and asked them if he had done anything similar (he had), and then told them that ebay wanted them to call if this was a widespread problem. About 2 days later, I got a message from the user asking me to stop and he'd remove my negative feedback .

I'm not usually that much of a dick, but I actually gave him his refund anyway, and he still left negative feedback telling me I was difficult to deal with. So I showed him what "difficult" really was.

But all that to say, I appreciate paypal looking out for buyers, as long as it's not abused.

 

[sequoia]

That's both good and bad. I sold a laptop on ebay, and the buyer was essentially a crook who bought a bunch of laptops, made up stories and extorted more money out of the sellers (hey the battery is dead, give me $50 or else I'll give you negative feedback). He then resold the laptops at a significant markup in a local store in Chicago (amazing what you can find out on the internet). Ebay/Paypal sided with the buyer without ever looking at the evidence, which included a long list of the other sellers he had done this to already.

Unfortunately, I see this type of scam daily when I sell on Ebay.

The best advice I can say is to pay using Paypal, but have $0 in that account. If you have cash on your account, the transaction will come out of your cash first. You connect your Paypal to your credit card. When you have no cash in the account, and it connects to the credit card, the transaction goes thru the credit card. So now you have 2 layers of protection, Paypal and your credit card. When things goes south, you want as much protection as you can get between you and the crooks.

Make sure it is credit card, not debit card.

 

[ordovician]

I had one ebayer send me a WXGA (1280x800) panel when the auction was for a WXGA+ (1440x1050) panel. WXGA+ are much harder to find and usually about 30-50% more expensive. I am convinced he knew he was doing it, too, since the sticker on the screen he sent was ripped off, and the only way I found out it was a WXGA panel was AFTER I had put it in the laptop (which takes about 45min). He tried arguing with me over the difference between WXGA and WXGA+, and then tried to charge me all his "shipping fees" (more than he charged for shipping in the first place) for this bait-and-switch after I demanded a refund.

Long story short, the only way I could get ALL my money (including what this guy charged for shipping) back for his bullshit was to open a dispute in the Ebay support console. They ruled against him. I sent back the crappy low-res panel, and did get a refund. Take that. Hah.

Awful thing is I was still out the money it took to send the screen back to him...

 

[Cerulean]

I don't trust eBay shopping at all. I've had too many bad, scam-related experiences in such a short time.

 

[4x4not]

This thread probably belongs outside the "Intel Processors" forum...

That being said, I have had a couple bad experiences with shady sellers on eBay, including one that sold me memory that was obviously bad (lifted pins on chips, washed-off "X" marked on the chip, only seen with a camera flash). Long story short, I got my money back because I had used PayPal through my AmEx card. When PayPal wouldn't side with me (he DID send the product, and it was labeled "as-is"), AmEx had my back and refunded the purchase within hours. I have used their anti-fraud protection several times since, and every single time they side with ME (rightfully so if I may say!). Hell, some vendors will refund you on their own free will if you even mention disputing it with American Express. I [heart] AmEx

 

[sean1197]

wow thats bs

 

[lathode]

So there was a price mistake, they canceled your order and refunded you... and the problem is? Websites do it all the time. I take it you don't have a CC? If you do I suggest using it instead of a debit card. Then you don't have to worry about funds being tied up and easier to deal with fraud.

 

[4x4not]

Doesn't look like a pricing mistake to me... and it is still listed on Google Products @ that price. I think the BS-y-ness of this is that they didn't even contact him, or give a reason. Maybe not shady, but still BS. In my mind it is on the same level as a company who charges your credit card then doesn't ship a product for 2 weeks for whatever reason...

 

[Zoomer]

This thread probably belongs outside the "Intel Processors" forum...

That being said, I have had a couple bad experiences with shady sellers on eBay, including one that sold me memory that was obviously bad (lifted pins on chips, washed-off "X" marked on the chip, only seen with a camera flash). Long story short, I got my money back because I had used PayPal through my AmEx card. When PayPal wouldn't side with me (he DID send the product, and it was labeled "as-is"), AmEx had my back and refunded the purchase within hours. I have used their anti-fraud protection several times since, and every single time they side with ME (rightfully so if I may say!). Hell, some vendors will refund you on their own free will if you even mention disputing it with American Express. I [heart] AmEx

Did you experience any bad things with paypal after you did that?

 

[Mangudai]

There are a few websites that will sell you cameras at seemingly great places then place your order on hold trying to convince you to buy bundles as well.

 

[gs274]

I've dealt with one of those "new york camera stores", 1st order I did with them was great, 2nd order 6 mos. later resulted in a call-back from a hardsell rep...not pleasant. I haven't dealt with them since. The biggest thing about the camera's is some of the estores sell undisclosed grey market camera's which leave you with no warranty or support in the US.

After a recent dealing with a dell laptop and dell returns....i <3 AmEx too!

 

[absolute_zero]

Doesn't look like a pricing mistake to me... and it is still listed on Google Products @ that price. I think the BS-y-ness of this is that they didn't even contact him, or give a reason. Maybe not shady, but still BS. In my mind it is on the same level as a company who charges your credit card then doesn't ship a product for 2 weeks for whatever reason...

this.

(i just created the thread so y'all could avoid the same monkey business...and share similar stories if you have them--not to make any kind of huge deal out of this one experience, of course i've had worse things happen to me.)

 

[4x4not]

Did you experience any bad things with paypal after you did that?

Nope. I still use PayPal all the time, through my AmEx.

 

[pharoah]

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Boyd_s_Imaging_Products go there and give em a bad rating.that will help spread the word as well.

 

[vanilla_guerilla]

I've dealt with one of those "new york camera stores", 1st order I did with them was great, 2nd order 6 mos. later resulted in a call-back from a hardsell rep...not pleasant. I haven't dealt with them since. The biggest thing about the camera's is some of the estores sell undisclosed grey market camera's which leave you with no warranty or support in the US.

After a recent dealing with a dell laptop and dell returns....i <3 AmEx too!

i am pretty sure i know which one you are talking about. the fact is that it was a great brick and mortar camera store back in the film days, ie 70's and 80's and i bought most of my darkroom supplies there. then by the mid 90's it had turned into one of those places with all the latest equipment in the window - but with no prices. the price was whatever the salesman thought he could get out of you. if he/she thought you were a tourist, you paid 150%. then it was one of those places that was permanently "going out of business". now the physical loc has disappeared.

 

[InvisiBill]

In my mind it is on the same level as a company who charges your credit card then doesn't ship a product for 2 weeks for whatever reason...

FYI, a merchant has 30 days to ship your product under US law. If they can't ship it within 30 days of the claimed ship date ("This item is on backorder and will ship in 2 weeks.") or the implied ship date ("Most orders ship the same day!"), they must contact you and ask if you'd like to cancel the order.

If the expected ship date is less than 30 days after that, they can leave the order in the system unless you request a cancellation. If it's more than 30 days or unknown, then the order must be cancelled unless the customer requests that it remain open. If it's unknown, then the merchant is also required to explain the nature of the delay.

If they can't ship it by the revised date, the order must be cancelled unless the customer requests that it remain open.

The customer has the legal right to cancel the order at any time up until the product has physically shipped out.

A Business Guide to the Federal Trade Commission’s MAIL OR TELEPHONE ORDER MERCHANDISE RULE

 

[4x4not]

FYI, a merchant has 30 days to ship your product under US law. If they can't ship it within 30 days of the claimed ship date ("This item is on backorder and will ship in 2 weeks.") or the implied ship date ("Most orders ship the same day!"), they must contact you and ask if you'd like to cancel the order.

If the expected ship date is less than 30 days after that, they can leave the order in the system unless you request a cancellation. If it's more than 30 days or unknown, then the order must be cancelled unless the customer requests that it remain open. If it's unknown, then the merchant is also required to explain the nature of the delay.

If they can't ship it by the revised date, the order must be cancelled unless the customer requests that it remain open.

The customer has the legal right to cancel the order at any time up until the product has physically shipped out.

A Business Guide to the Federal Trade Commission’s MAIL OR TELEPHONE ORDER MERCHANDISE RULE

Law or not, I find it to be pretty piss-poor business practice to charge someone's card right away and then not ship the product within a few business days. If you don't have the product available, don't take the money. Simple as that. Now if I order something and receive and email a couple days later saying "Sorry, this product is backordered, etc" it may be an inconvenience to me, but I can deal with that. Shit happens...

 

[InvisiBill]

Law or not, I find it to be pretty piss-poor business practice to charge someone's card right away and then not ship the product within a few business days. If you don't have the product available, don't take the money. Simple as that. Now if I order something and receive and email a couple days later saying "Sorry, this product is backordered, etc" it may be an inconvenience to me, but I can deal with that. Shit happens...

I agree. Even that page states that a lot of companies view compliance as simply good business practice (i.e. they'd do it even if they weren't required to). In this day and age, there's very little reason to not ship something as soon as the card is charged. Like you said, stuff comes up sometimes, but it seems like charging a card then having to possibly refund everything is a much bigger hassle than simply waiting until it's ready to ship before charging the card, unless you're using the float to buy the item from your supplier or something.

If a company does do that, report it via whatever feedback mechanisms are available (eBay feedback, ResellerRatings, etc.). If I see any business that does that on a regular basis, I'll avoid them. There are most likely a dozen other vendors that have a competitive price and will ship it out at the time it's actually ordered. It really is bad business for a company to do that, when the competition can ship it out right away.

 

[x509]

Online camera stores (especially those based in New York for some reason) I've heard are very commonly scam sites. It's such a common phenomenon that some mainstream news source even picked up the story a few years back. Apparently you have to be even more careful ordering cameras online than you do PC components. Kind of strange. Maybe more photographers are suckers?

There are two very good NY camera stores. Can't go wrong with either B&H Photo or Adorama. Stick with them and you'll be happy.

 

[HelenOster]

There are two very good NY camera stores. Can't go wrong with either B&H Photo or Adorama. Stick with them and you'll be happy.

Thanks for the recommendation for Adorama, which is very much appreciated!

BTW, I'm only an email away for advice or after-sales support concerning any order from Adorama Camera.

NB www.resellerratings was mentioned above as a place to go, to place a negative review of the OP's experience; it's absolutely and always my first go-to place if I'm buying anything online, before I part with my cc details.