Uncool To Be a Mac User in These Tough Times?

phide said:
I've found that Windows doesn't need to be reinstalled on a yearly basis so long as you don't install anything and use a severely slimmed-down nLite build to begin with. Otherwise? Thanks, but no thanks.
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If you have PEBKAC problems then a mac is definitely the right machine.
you can fix almost everything software can screw up without reinstalling anything.
 
^ please tell me someone didn't really go through this ad frame by frame to discover that....




wow... just, wow
 
OH NO, they didn't actually sit in front of a mac store with a video camera for an hours its a fake video!!!!!

Easy answer to that. They got the prices ahead of time and just had her walk in and walk out to give the look of her looking around to not have to sit in front of the store the entire time. That doesn't make what she said any less true.
 
DeFex said:
If you have PEBKAC problems then a mac is definitely the right machine.
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Give me a break. No amount of PC/Windows experience (going on 15 years here personally, which is likely longer than you've had pubic hair) is enough to be able to effectively repair fundamentally broken aspects of Windows that contribute (or allow third-party software to contribute) to performance degradation over time.

If your idea is that any legitimate gripe about Windows should be countered with a cookie-cutter "must be user error" or "PEBKAC o lulz" response, you're definitely at the right forum ;)
 
krotch said:
I bought my last laptop about 1 1/2 years ago. 1.8 ghz dual core Pentium M with a gig of mem, 100 gig hdd, 12.1" display, and some onboard vid. Works great for what I want and only ran me $600.

Right now, it's still chugging along perfectly fine. No reloads either. Cheaper than a Macbook.
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Last year I bought an Acer 14" laptop, AMD64 X2 1.8Ghz, 2GB ram, 160GB SATA hard drive, "Superdrive" (A DVD-/+R Drive)... $499. Sent it to my parents to replace the Athlon XP 13" notebook I gave to them 5 years prior. (1800+ CPU IIRC)

By today's specs, the laptop I bought for $500 is still a very, very usable computer. Even had ATI accelerated graphics, so not purely integrated chipset video either.

I bought a 15" widescreen Compaq 5 years ago. That thing lasted me 3 1/2 years and was still plenty fast enough for me when I got rid of it. I bought a C2D based notebook with better video graphics for some games. It was on sale. The Compaq cost me less than $1300. The Asus G1 I have now cost me the same. $1249.99 on sale about a year and a half ago.

What do _ALL_ of these systems have in common?

Even the Compaq, which had a GeForce 440 Go GPU...

They were -BETTER SPEC'ED- than the closest Apple Macbook models available at the time and better priced by a significant margin. That's what this ad clearly demonstrates.

Apple's machines are just -now- starting to get some graphics chips in them (as standard) that don't suck. And... well. We've had that option for years.

The argument always repeats, but the point of the ad was pretty bloody clear to me: Apple has less options because of that... and you'll likely find a much better deal or configuration more suited to your own tastes and needs.

Whine all you want, Apple Fanbois. There's much more to using a computer than taking only what Apple offers you.

Oh. And my Mac friend had to blast away OSX and reinstall again for the second time in a year. I'm on the same WinXP install since I bought this laptop.

People buy 15" and 17" laptops because they want a larger screen and/or a desktop replacement. By using the argument that the ONLY reason you'd buy a notebook or laptop is for portability is pretty fuckin' ignorant, especially considering the iMac is nearly the same concept. I have a desktop replacement use for notebooks and I spec and price accordingly. 2 hours of battery life? Pfft, big deal if it stays plugged into AC 99.99% of the time. A battery in a desktop replacement is essentially a built in UPS. I bought a netbook for portability. I bought my Compaq and Asus for desktop use.
 
Someone wasted their time thinking about the ad. Here's an idea. The bald guy also walked into the Mac store and left earlier than the chick. All the ppl randomly walking around were paid to randomly walk around. ZOMG! Like any other commercials.

Anyways, if you aren't getting malware on your machine or installing like 50 programs that run in the background, your Windows install is gonna need less maintenance than the hardware itself.
 
techrat said:
Last year I bought an Acer 14" laptop, AMD64 X2 1.8Ghz, 2GB ram, 160GB SATA hard drive, "Superdrive" (A DVD-/+R Drive)... $499. Sent it to my parents to replace the Athlon XP 13" notebook I gave to them 5 years prior. (1800+ CPU IIRC)

By today's specs, the laptop I bought for $500 is still a very, very usable computer. Even had ATI accelerated graphics, so not purely integrated chipset video either.

I bought a 15" widescreen Compaq 5 years ago. That thing lasted me 3 1/2 years and was still plenty fast enough for me when I got rid of it. I bought a C2D based notebook with better video graphics for some games. It was on sale. The Compaq cost me less than $1300. The Asus G1 I have now cost me the same. $1249.99 on sale about a year and a half ago.

What do _ALL_ of these systems have in common?

Even the Compaq, which had a GeForce 440 Go GPU...

They were -BETTER SPEC'ED- than the closest Apple Macbook models available at the time and better priced by a significant margin. That's what this ad clearly demonstrates.

Apple's machines are just -now- starting to get some graphics chips in them (as standard) that don't suck. And... well. We've had that option for years.

The argument always repeats, but the point of the ad was pretty bloody clear to me: Apple has less options because of that... and you'll likely find a much better deal or configuration more suited to your own tastes and needs.

Whine all you want, Apple Fanbois. There's much more to using a computer than taking only what Apple offers you.

Oh. And my Mac friend had to blast away OSX and reinstall again for the second time in a year. I'm on the same WinXP install since I bought this laptop.

People buy 15" and 17" laptops because they want a larger screen and/or a desktop replacement. By using the argument that the ONLY reason you'd buy a notebook or laptop is for portability is pretty fuckin' ignorant, especially considering the iMac is nearly the same concept. I have a desktop replacement use for notebooks and I spec and price accordingly. 2 hours of battery life? Pfft, big deal if it stays plugged into AC 99.99% of the time. A battery in a desktop replacement is essentially a built in UPS. I bought a netbook for portability. I bought my Compaq and Asus for desktop use.
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Not sure exactly why I was quoted for this post. I never said anything against 15" or higher notebooks. I'd get a 17" gaming laptop myself, if I were still doing lan parties every week. Since I don't, I've gone more ultra-portable.
 
OMG a commercial is fake? Say it ain't so...

While the commercial might have been staged and filmed with actors (um it is a commercial after all), the basic facts are true the HP cost $2100 less then the Apple.

Thats a fact at least, something that doesn't exist at all in Apple ads.
 
Except that the ad is being portrayed as MS just picked this girl at random, gave her money, told her to buy a laptop for $1000 that she could then keep. Which is not the case

Plus, once you add all the options to the HP that bring it in line with the Macbook Pro specs, the prices come out nearly even. So again, the argument fails
 
That is the issue though, add the options. What options do you really need? For nearly everything, the PC will be able to do it for the $700.. maybe add some more memory for $50. The Apple has zero options. One price, take it or leave it.
 
dark4181 said:
Except that the ad is being portrayed as MS just picked this girl at random, gave her money, told her to buy a laptop for $1000 that she could then keep. Which is not the case

Plus, once you add all the options to the HP that bring it in line with the Macbook Pro specs, the prices come out nearly even. So again, the argument fails
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What options are needed, please explain this. What comes, in that 2700USD price, that is missing from the 700USD HP price?
 
No, Apple has options; the problem is, the option is "Expensive" or "More Expensive"

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a rabid Apple fanboi. There are things about them that I absolutely detest. But at the same time, there are some things that they are simply good at. For a laptop, I would pick a Mac over a PC, but for a desktop, I would build my own PC with all the best hardware :)
 
Is there anyone that would be willing to walk into an Apple Store or any other retailer (including Best Buy) and not be able to discover that 17" Apple MacBook Pro base model is $2799? Ok, then how about $2659?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9107441&type=product&id=1218025522754

Does it really matter if she did or didn't spend time in the store? No, not really. I can go to most anyplace here in Vegas - there's an Apple Store at an outdoor non-enclosed shopping center similar to the one in the ad, and I can stand out front for 15 mins and almost guarantee I'll see the same shoppers go back and forth from store to store, so capturing them on a video is easy.

Besides, Apple absolutely goes ballistic if you try to go into their stores with a video camera, hence them not following her inside.

Bleh... the point still holds: get a machine that works and does what you want with the features you want and not pay about $3000 for the fucking thing (item + taxes in most places).
 
theDreamer said:
What options are needed, please explain this. What comes, in that 2700USD price, that is missing from the 700USD HP price?
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Well, let's start with the res of the screen MBP: 1900x1200/ HP:1440x900

CPU = MBP C2D @ 2.6ghz vs HP C2D @ 2.0ghz

GPU = MBP nvidia 9600mgt vs HP intel gma4500

RAM - MBP 4GB 1066 ddr3 vs HP 1GB 800 ddr3

Wireless - MBP wireless-n vs HP wireless-g

Battery = MBP ~8hours vs HP ~3hours

Chassis - MBP precision machined aluminum @ 6.6 pounds vs HP Plastic composite at 7.8 pounds


Should I keep going?
 
dark4181 said:
Well, let's start with the res of the screen MBP: 1900x1200/ HP:1440x900

CPU = MBP C2D @ 2.6ghz vs HP C2D @ 2.0ghz

GPU = MBP nvidia 9600mgt vs HP intel gma4500

RAM - MBP 4GB 1066 ddr3 vs HP 1GB 800 ddr3

Wireless - MBP wireless-n vs HP wireless-g

Battery = MBP ~8hours vs HP ~3hours

Chassis - MBP precision machined aluminum @ 6.6 pounds vs HP Plastic composite at 7.8 pounds


Should I keep going?
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That HP was said to have 4GB of RAM in the vid if I remember correctly.
 
Not according to the HP website it's not. So they're also misrepresenting the price of the pc here then. Surprise surprise

My point still stands
 
Joe Average said:
Bleh... the point still holds: get a machine that works and does what you want with the features you want
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Guys can't we leave it at this? We all know what we want a computer for. If I want to play games I use windows, but if I want to do some web development or record my guitar I use a mac. Who cares about ads and what other people decide to buy. Just worry about yourselves.
 
dark4181 said:
Well, let's start with the res of the screen MBP: 1900x1200/ HP:1440x900

CPU = MBP C2D @ 2.6ghz vs HP C2D @ 2.0ghz

GPU = MBP nvidia 9600mgt vs HP intel gma4500

RAM - MBP 4GB 1066 ddr3 vs HP 1GB 800 ddr3

Wireless - MBP wireless-n vs HP wireless-g

Battery = MBP ~8hours vs HP ~3hours

Chassis - MBP precision machined aluminum @ 6.6 pounds vs HP Plastic composite at 7.8 pounds


Should I keep going?
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Keep going all you want. The differences you find won't add up to the $2000 price gap.
 
dark4181 said:
Well, let's start with the res of the screen MBP: 1900x1200/ HP:1440x900

CPU = MBP C2D @ 2.6ghz vs HP C2D @ 2.0ghz

GPU = MBP nvidia 9600mgt vs HP intel gma4500

RAM - MBP 4GB 1066 ddr3 vs HP 1GB 800 ddr3

Wireless - MBP wireless-n vs HP wireless-g

Battery = MBP ~8hours vs HP ~3hours

Chassis - MBP precision machined aluminum @ 6.6 pounds vs HP Plastic composite at 7.8 pounds


Should I keep going?
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All those specs are maybe worth $1000 in a laptop.

So that leaves $1700 to account for the rest. Man that is one hell of an expensive OS. It is just not worth it. Unless you like paying $2700 for a deck of cards.
 
dark4181 said:
Well, let's start with the res of the screen MBP: 1900x1200/ HP:1440x900

CPU = MBP C2D @ 2.6ghz vs HP C2D @ 2.0ghz

GPU = MBP nvidia 9600mgt vs HP intel gma4500

RAM - MBP 4GB 1066 ddr3 vs HP 1GB 800 ddr3

Wireless - MBP wireless-n vs HP wireless-g

Battery = MBP ~8hours vs HP ~3hours

Chassis - MBP precision machined aluminum @ 6.6 pounds vs HP Plastic composite at 7.8 pounds


Should I keep going?
Click to expand...

Please keep going:

Dell Studio 17
C2D 2.66Ghz
4GB RAM
320GB HDD
1920x1200 RGB LED Display
Mobility Radeon HD3650
BD-ROM
85Whr 9cell battery
2.0MP Integrated Webcam
Intel Wireless 802.11agn

Total: $1,674. So I still save $1100 and there's no coupon deals on the Studio laptops right now. Give it a week or two and I'll be able to knock 10%-25% off that price.

Thank you for playing. Please try again. :)
 
I remember when the Macbook first appeared: $1199 for the base model or something like that... the white one, of course. Then the black one appeared a few weeks later... $1499, same CPU, 2GB RAM (up from 1GB), a slightly larger hard drive (120 vs 160 iirc), and... well, that was it.

Apple Tax, indeed... maybe a $40 difference in the larger hard drive, maybe $60 difference in cost for the additional RAM (even when it came out RAM wasn't that expensive) so... $200 more just to have it be black in color...
 
You want options? How about for the $2800 the MBP costs I could buy:
The 17" HP laptop for everyday work
An Netbook for portability
A Dell i7 desktop with a 24" screen for gaming
and probably still have enough left over for a Windows Home Server to store all my files on.

Then again, unlike Apple's Dell's and HP's often go on sale so I could probably buy that all (or even better build the desktop and server) for less and still have money left over for pizza.

That's options
 
darkpaw said:
OS-X - the OS you need to rebuy every year

Wow, that article really got the mac zealots freaked out on cnet. They're all out spouting the cult lines about Windoze (have trouble spelling I guess) and how expensive security software (free software works just fine) is and how much better Apple hardware is (yah right)...
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I like their advert about the new mac book, the one where the battery lasts longer but will inevitably still wind up in a Chinese land fill in someones back yard, not to mention the mercury contained in the backlight, and unless the components are made from starch, grass clippings or some other organic substance I don't think the computer is any more friendly to the planet than any other plain old laptop.
 
dark4181 said:
Not according to the HP website it's not. So they're also misrepresenting the price of the pc here then. Surprise surprise

My point still stands
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your point does NOT stand. there are far better specs for the 700 price, no idea which model you dug up. the main point is, that leaves about 2000$ extra to be spent, do you not see the point here? typical
 
dark4181 said:
Not according to the HP website it's not. So they're also misrepresenting the price of the pc here then. Surprise surprise

My point still stands
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No, you were misrepresenting the HP by using the base model ($600), NOT the $700 one. HP site has a "quick ship" model with a list price of $699 (same as video). Its specs include 3GB of RAM, Wifi N, and a 320GB 5400rpm harddrive.

Is the Macbook more powerful? Well, since it costs $2100 MORE it damn well better, so what really is your point? I can take that $2100 difference and build a PC that will bitch slap a macbook pro in a performance comparison and still have a 17in laptop.

As for the resolution, I honestly wouldn't necessarily call that an advantage. My dad, for example, hates my 1920x1200 15.4 in laptop because he can't see anything, and of course if you run at non-native things look like ass. Some people may actually prefer the lower resolution screen. I'm not saying the lower res screen is an advantage either, just that one size doesn't fit all.
 
That is a Best Buy model that HP makes specifically for us.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9166635&type=product&id=1218041148373

AMD 2.1GHz Turion X2 Processor
4GB DDR2
ATI 3200 w/256 Dedicated Video RAM
DVD/RW Dual Layer w/Lightscribe (no Lightscribe for Apple)
320GB Hard Drive (this is the new standard on laptops at Best Buy now ... except for the Macs they sell that have smaller drives)
1440x900 Resolution w/webcam & microphone
10-key number pad
Wireless stowaway remote (I believe you still have to pay an extra $20 for these, even though when I bought my Macbook they came for free)
VGA and HDMI port (you have to buy a $30 adapter from Apple to get it to work with ANYTHING else - how is this not elitist??)
Two headphone jacks (most laptops even with Windows only come with one. Kudos to HP)

Price: $700

Cons of HP: Slower processor, DDR2, and other minor gripes. OS won't be a gripe when you throw Windows 7 on it. (Heck, I'm fine with Vista. Stupid Safari crashes all the time on my Mac!)

But for the price she's got a solid computer. It's like I sometimes say when I sell a fridge:

Customer: So we can't decide between this $800 model and the $1100 model.
Me: Well, they have about the same cubic feet, both have icemakers, and both are Energy Star.
Customer: Well the $1100 model has (insert cute feature X) and also (insert cute feature Y) ... but it's also $300 more expensive.
Me: Well ... sometimes I just have to break it down like this - If you buy the $800 model, it will keep your food cold. If you buy the $1100 model - whoa!! - it will keep your food cold, too. Do you really need the LED lighting over the traditional lighting?? Does it mean that much to you to have the handles be "real" stainless? I mean both models are true stainless fronts, only the handles are different. Are those to features really worth $300? $300 will fill that fridge, maybe twice .... but you tell me. I'm not on commission.
Customer: You know you're right, let's get the $800. We plan to sell after we finish remodeling in a few years anyways. Thanks!

True story!! This has happened more than once. The girl in the commercial doesn't need the extra Mac stuff. In fact, that HP is full of bells, whisltes, and whirlygigs that other PC brands don't even have. It will make a great family computer for her, and she spent the $300 she saved on other stuff she needed, heck $200 she used to get stuff she wanted with the laptop, but wouldn't have gotten with the Mac.

People have got to start thinking like that with the current economic state, and this commercial hits the nail right on the head. I'm a humongous fan of my iPod Touch, and my Macbook's been a trusty and speedy school companion for almost three years now, but some of Apples pricing/marketing & included accessories are starting to leave more and more to be desired.

Again, I love the OS for simple personal stuff. It's clean and efficient. But I can put that on a $200 Dell netbook now, can't I?
 
compslckr said:
haha she got shafted. that HP will last here 2 years top. they are complete garbage... and what idiot wants a 17" laptop anyways? kind of defetes the purpose of a laptop

mobility: fail
battery life: fail
space consumption: fail
weight: fail
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I guess this idiot does. Got a beautiful 17" Clevo gaming grade NB that's upgradable, has SLI, and can hold 3 hard drives, perfect for the media/gaming junky who only travels overseas a couple times a year & needs his gaming fix.

But of course, any self-respecting idiot would also have a smaller 15.4" NB used mainly for work & small commutes. :)
 
Wow. MS faked a commercial? Not big news here people. Its not like they DIDNT mis-represent the facts. Thats the key point here, is you really CANT get a 17" notebook at a Mac store for under $1000. Also, you only need a second in a Mac store to realize how over-priced there BS is anyways. Im sure the store didnt want a MS film crew in there also.

Hay. The Mac fans at least can comfort there over priced crud by the fact that Apple runs a totally honest add campaign *Cough* at twice the speed *Cough*.

No amount of elitism, aluminum case, and hackable OS is worth $1000 more. Mac's started out as the maverick company going against the big corp's. Now they ARE the big corps, dictating what people buy, what it looks like, and how they use it. Go into your Mac store and ask for a color other then "aluminum". You cant. You need to fall in line and step in tune with the rest of the iRobots who also over-paid. And youll still wind up installing an MS OS on it anyways.
 
Where's the Mac tablet? Mac's are supposed to so cool and cutting edge and still no tablet? 7 years after Microsoft released their tablet technology? No pen or touch or tablet form factor for supposedly the most advanced OS for the desktop out there? Sure, tablets my be a niche, but they are freeking cool. I've got a ton of gadgets and the tablets still get people's attention.

Windows. Function over Form.
 
Gibbage said:
Wow. MS faked a commercial? Not big news here people. Its not like they DIDNT mis-represent the facts. Thats the key point here, is you really CANT get a 17" notebook at a Mac store for under $1000. Also, you only need a second in a Mac store to realize how over-priced there BS is anyways. Im sure the store didnt want a MS film crew in there also.

Hay. The Mac fans at least can comfort there over priced crud by the fact that Apple runs a totally honest add campaign *Cough* at twice the speed *Cough*.

No amount of elitism, aluminum case, and hackable OS is worth $1000 more. Mac's started out as the maverick company going against the big corp's. Now they ARE the big corps, dictating what people buy, what it looks like, and how they use it. Go into your Mac store and ask for a color other then "aluminum". You cant. You need to fall in line and step in tune with the rest of the iRobots who also over-paid. And youll still wind up installing an MS OS on it anyways.
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History and experience tells me Apple's been the big dog long before the PC came around.
 
Mac users that always use the "I'll keep using mac since I don't have to reinstall it every year" blah blah .. please find something else to use as ammo?

I've seen plenty of people with PC's with the same installation of windows over years of usage.

Grow up Mac.
 
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