ultrabooks vs new macbook air..

[HasteTheMoment]

Hello,
Whats the best Bang for the buck on ultrabooks(mac apple air style laptops)...

they fill a great niche for me in my business lifestyle...

however, I do play some occasion games..WoW, LoL, Crysis 2...MW3..

any suggestions..they come with great processors, RAM, SSD, but most have intel mobile 3000 gfx onboard...air has newer 4000 model.

 

[shinobido]

The very best if money is not a concern would be the recently refreshed Vaio Z (in my opinion). It packs specs that are more comparable to the Macbook Pro in a form factor and weight that undercuts the Macbook Air. You can get it with a full voltage Ivy Bridge quad core, 13" 1080P display, RAID 0 SSDs, and built in Intel 4000 graphics which is decent enough to run games like Trackmania Canyon, Skyrim, and Diablo 3 (These I've personally tested on mine).

You can get the available external GPU to boost performance but in all honesty, it's a bit of a rip-off for the type of graphics card it comes with (Radeon HD 6650M). The Vaio S is similar in size and offers an integrated Nvidia GPU but is a bit heavier and made out of less expensive materials. The Lenovo X230 I've heard is pretty nice but also only has Intel 4000 graphics.

 

[Aurelius]

You probably don't want an ultrabook if you intend to do much more than the occasional game -- integrated graphics are still pokey, and even the models with dedicated graphics aren't that much faster. An Intel HD 4000 will certainly be fast enough for World of Warcraft; I'm just thinking that you'll struggle a bit with Crysis 2 and other games clearly meant to push the limits.

That said, I'd still get an ultrabook, and the MacBook Air is still clearly the gold standard there (design, keyboard, trackpad, relative speed). Gaming on a notebook to me has always been a bit of a fool's errand -- you spend a lot to get something fast, and it often ends up being a notebook that you really wouldn't want to carry everywhere. Portability is what matters most.

 

[AQ_OC]

Gaming on a notebook to me has always been a bit of a fool's errand -- you spend a lot to get something fast, and it often ends up being a notebook that you really wouldn't want to carry everywhere. Portability is what matters most.

+1. If portability is not the most important feature, don't get an ultrabook.

 

[Zumino Zufeilon]

+1. If portability is not the most important feature, don't get an ultrabook.

Yup, the basic axiom of Laptops is still:

Power, Price, Portability. Choose Two

An ultrabook (and a MBA believe it or not) is an attempt to select all three. Portability is the key, and the power/price are balanced.

That means you're paying more, for less power, to get it portable.

 

[arr4ws]

i have a desktop with an HD4000 , its barely more powerful than a 3000.

even if the reviews state its way more powerful.

 

[AQ_OC]

i have a desktop with an HD4000 , its barely more powerful than a 3000.

even if the reviews state its way more powerful.

Actually, none of the reviews say it is way more powerful. It is just a nice bump and if you have a choice between 3000 and 4000, the 4000 is the thing to get. People just manage to read stuff wrong.

 

[Epicness]

Intel 3000 vs 4000 was just mentioned, what about the SSD bump from the Air 2011 to the Air 2012? In the real world???

Reason I ask, is the Air 2012 is $1200. A Refurb Air 2011 is $929. Quite a difference there if the performance is negligible and all you gain is USB 3.0!

Edit- to HasteTheMoment...
Check out my thread here: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1702820
I'm currently in the market as well, and I've narrowed my options down to 3, if it helps you.

Also one thing to keep in mind is, "Do I want a full-featured laptop that can also be used as a tablet?" as Microsoft Surface and Asus Transformer Book are around the corner. In my case, I have a tablet (HP Touchpad) that I hardly ever use already- but if you don't, it may be something that interests you.

 

[AQ_OC]

Intel 3000 vs 4000 was just mentioned, what about the SSD bump from the Air 2011 to the Air 2012? In the real world???

Reason I ask, is the Air 2012 is $1200. A Refurb Air 2011 is $929. Quite a difference there if the performance is negligible and all you gain is USB 3.0!

Edit- to HasteTheMoment...
Check out my thread here: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1702820
I'm currently in the market as well, and I've narrowed my options down to 3, if it helps you.

Also one thing to keep in mind is, "Do I want a full-featured laptop that can also be used as a tablet?" as Microsoft Surface and Asus Transformer Book are around the corner. In my case, I have a tablet (HP Touchpad) that I hardly ever use already- but if you don't, it may be something that interests you.

Most SSDs soundly beat out HDDs, so the delta there is significant. Also, usb 3.0 is a big bump too, if you use usb 3.0 hardware. Using the word "all" is a bit demeaning. I'd get the 2012 no question, if I were going to buy an Air.

If you ask me, putting your eggs in the MS basket is risky. I'll believe it when I see it.

Also, putting a keyboard on any current iOS/Android tablet doesn't make it a laptop. It's a tablet with a keyboard.

 

[Epicness]

Using the word "all" is a bit demeaning. I'd get the 2012 no question, if I were going to buy an Air.

Ivy Bridge+USB 3.0 were the only notable improvements... Unless like I said, the SSD is notable enough.

Also, putting a keyboard on any current iOS/Android tablet doesn't make it a laptop. It's a tablet with a keyboard.

The Asus Transformer Book is not what you think it is, then. It's full Windows. Full Intel.

 

[AQ_OC]

The Asus Transformer Book is not what you think it is, then. It's full Windows. Full Intel.

I don't get your point. This big ass thing is not an iOS or Android device, it is a windows machine. And given the size of the screen/tablet, it will never be a tablet. It's a Windows laptop whose keyboard can be removed. It won't survive except in very limit niche markets, if there, as I doubt Asus has a big enough name to get any real traction. Nobody wants a 13+ inch tablet in general.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

Intel 3000 vs 4000 was just mentioned, what about the SSD bump from the Air 2011 to the Air 2012? In the real world???

Reason I ask, is the Air 2012 is $1200. A Refurb Air 2011 is $929. Quite a difference there if the performance is negligible and all you gain is USB 3.0!

There isn't really a difference between the SSD in the 2011 vs the 2012. However there are definite improvements elsewhere.

Basically the 2012 MBA has faster processors (as in, they are clocked higher... I won't bother talking about Sandy vs Ivy bridge,) allows for 8GB of Ram (which is significant, especially if you want this MBA to be able to compete with an MBP, and want it to do any level of photo/video editing,) and the graphics are around a 33% boost in performance (according to Apple.)

Other side enhancements are USB3 and the ability for the MBA to drive two external Thunderbolt monitors (only relevant if you live in an MBA only world and can afford two Thunderbolt displays...)

All that to say, the 2012 model does offer significant improvements. The 'standard' MBA comes with more than any MBA before it, which is great. No longer are we stuck with 2GB of Ram in the base configuration, or 64GB SSD's. Apple really built the base level 2012 MBA to be a hard proposition to beat. The upgrades just make it that much sweeter.

 

[Impulse]

I don't get your point. This big ass thing is not an iOS or Android device, it is a windows machine. And given the size of the screen/tablet, it will never be a tablet. It's a Windows laptop whose keyboard can be removed. It won't survive except in very limit niche markets, if there, as I doubt Asus has a big enough name to get any real traction. Nobody wants a 13+ inch tablet in general.

That's the thing I don't get about all these convertible/hybrid devices being announced for Win8, at first I was kinda hyped about them but then I realized the same thing... I don't want a 13" or even a 12" tablet, heck even my 10" ASUS Transformer is pushing it (I dig the dock, but I think I'd rather have an 8.9" form factor in general).

Same deal if you look at it from a laptop perspective first, a lot of those devices are 10-12", which is rather small for a laptop... It's basically netbook sized. Most people that get a laptop for actual work want something in the 13-14" range, 15"+ if portability is not a huge concern. I guess higher quality / resolution displays might make 12" displays more usable and common but still.

I think I'd rather just have a cheap Android tablet and an ultrabook than some sort of all-in-one device. The market for the do-it-all devices is gonna be the same as the current market for tablets, maybe even smaller. There'll be more of a business market thanks to x86 devices competing in the same space (and WinRT trying to bring ARM upscale), but I don't see it exploding the way low-cost tablets are gonna explode.

 

[Epicness]

given the size of the screen/tablet, it will never be a tablet. It's a Windows laptop whose keyboard can be removed.

Which makes it... A tablet

You can say a 13" tablet is too big but it doesn't take away from the fact its a full blown Windows device in tablet form, and I myself would buy one in a second if I didn't already have a tablet.

This would allow me a primary laptop, that also has all my stuff on it for the occasional jaunt when I need a tablet. I think it fits the bill for more people than you realize.

Right now, a tablet sucks. What do I sync my phone with? No Windows. Forget about full MSO or programs that require Active X.
With a laptop, I lack the portability when I just want something to lay on the couch with.

This does both in one device.

 

[robvas]

There isn't really a difference between the SSD in the 2011 vs the 2012. However there are definite improvements elsewhere.

The 2012 Airs have much faster SSD's

http://osxdaily.com/2012/06/19/macbook-air-2012-ssd-benchmarks-vs-macbook-air-2011/

Also, 64GB is still standard in the 11"

 

[AQ_OC]

Which makes it... A tablet

You can say a 13" tablet is too big but it doesn't take away from the fact its a full blown Windows device in tablet form, and I myself would buy one in a second if I didn't already have a tablet.

This would allow me a primary laptop, that also has all my stuff on it for the occasional jaunt when I need a tablet. I think it fits the bill for more people than you realize.

Right now, a tablet sucks. What do I sync my phone with? No Windows. Forget about full MSO or programs that require Active X.
With a laptop, I lack the portability when I just want something to lay on the couch with.

This does both in one device.

Ok...go buy an all-in-one PC....some even have touch screens that are 27-inches. Just detach the keyboard and bingo, it's a tablet. Runs windows. Right.

 

[blinx]

I know the Microsoft Surface Pro is still a ways off... but that's what i'm saving my ultrabook virginity for.

 

[AQ_OC]

I know the Microsoft Surface Pro is still a ways off... but that's what i'm saving my ultrabook virginity for.

I hope you aren't disappointed.

 

[silent-circuit]

I'd consider the Acer TimelineX series if I were the OP. Some come with switchable Geforce GTX GPUs and are still right around ultrabook size, while costing less than a Macbook Air. Warranty may be problematic, though -- I believe they only come with one year and I don't know if it's possible to extend it.

Also, MacBook Airs are terribly prone to screen issues unless you baby them to an absolutely insane degree. I got rid of mine after dealing with a crack Apple refused to repair under warranty because they claim all screen damage is "accidental" and not warrantied. What do they expect when there is no gap between the screen and wrist rest? All it takes is a particularly large piece of dirt and your screen is cracked when you close the machine. Terrible design.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

The 2012 Airs have much faster SSD's

http://osxdaily.com/2012/06/19/macbook-air-2012-ssd-benchmarks-vs-macbook-air-2011/

Also, 64GB is still standard in the 11"

Good point outs on both accounts. I guess I must have glossed over the base model 11", I always looked at the 'upgraded' one. Nice to hear that there is an improvement on the SSD's as well, that just makes the package that much better.

 

[AQ_OC]

The 2012 Airs have much faster SSD's

http://osxdaily.com/2012/06/19/macbook-air-2012-ssd-benchmarks-vs-macbook-air-2011/

Also, 64GB is still standard in the 11"

That review overstates the case as there were two different SSDs in 2011 MBA. The one some Samsung makes the other one look bad too, though it is still no match for the 2012 sata 3 (6GB/s) version.

 

[cshard]

I don't know why a lot of people are questioning this kind of concept--it makes perfect sense to me. Guess it's different needs from different people.

I would like this kind of stuff: I can use them as a 13'' super portable laptop, and every night when I go to bed, i detach the touch screen from the dock to put it on my belly/laps in the bed and do some web browsing or movie streaming. The second day, when I go to work/school, I attach the screen back to the dock and take notes by either typing or drawing on the screen. That's very attractive to me. At least for now, tablet running on iOS or Android can't fit my needs very well. This thing quoted below runs full Windows and I can use full Office suite and PDF editors as however I choose. Why wouldn't it be something exciting for me?

Moreover, there is this Acer S7 that I'm looking forward to. Again, personal preference I guess.

 

[Impulse]

I just don't see how they're gonna price them aggressively enough... If one such system costs the same as a cheap Android tablet and an ultrabook, then I'd rather have the two discrete devices... Each of them will be better suited/sized for their task anyway than a too-large-to-be-tablet too-small-to-be-laptop convertible.

 

[AQ_OC]

I don't know why a lot of people are questioning this kind of concept--it makes perfect sense to me. Guess it's different needs from different people.

I would like this kind of stuff: I can use them as a 13'' super portable laptop, and every night when I go to bed, i detach the touch screen from the dock to put it on my belly/laps in the bed and do some web browsing or movie streaming. The second day, when I go to work/school, I attach the screen back to the dock and take notes by either typing or drawing on the screen. That's very attractive to me. At least for now, tablet running on iOS or Android can't fit my needs very well. This thing quoted below runs full Windows and I can use full Office suite and PDF editors as however I choose. Why wouldn't it be something exciting for me?


Moreover, there is this Acer S7 that I'm looking forward to. Again, personal preference I guess.

Have you actually used any kind of screen on your belly/lap in bed? This doesn't work even with a regular tablet, making it 13 inches means it is less likely to happen.

Have you ever used Windows with a touch screen? I'm not talking about Metro but a real do-some-work Windows app? Friggin impossible to do diddly with your fingers on Windows.

I too would like Windows on a tablet...but I want it smallish just like an iPad or a Android tablet (though I prefer a 4:3 screen to 16:9 - the industry has screwed the pooch just to watch movies on a shit tiny screen, sad).

I predict the Acer and its kin will fall flat on the market.

 

[Impulse]

Yeah, I use my 10" Transformer in bed and on the couch all the time and even that is a bit larger than I'd like... On the couch it's mostly ok but in bed it's rather awkward tbh, next time I upgrade I'll probably go for 8.9" or maybe even 7". I actually don't mind 16:9 form factor at all (great for reading IMO) but 4:3 has it's merits.

Then at the opposite end, try getting any serious work done on a 1080p laptop under 12" tho, you'll spend half your time zooming in and out of things. Mobile OS overcome this hurdle because they were built from the ground up to scale with res (Android was anyway, Apple's just doubling everything up every few years), and apps mostly comply with that. Even if Windows 8 has better dpi scaling, many desktop apps won't.

Add all that to the realities of cost and the non existing ecosystem and Win 8 convertible devices almost look like a giant flop waiting to happen... Which is a shame because in the long term there's a ton of potential to the approach Microsoft has taken, I think they're committed to see it thru tho. Meager sales hasn't deterred them from pushing Windows Phone one bit.

 

[cshard]

Have you actually used any kind of screen on your belly/lap in bed? This doesn't work even with a regular tablet, making it 13 inches means it is less likely to happen.

Have you ever used Windows with a touch screen? I'm not talking about Metro but a real do-some-work Windows app? Friggin impossible to do diddly with your fingers on Windows.

I too would like Windows on a tablet...but I want it smallish just like an iPad or a Android tablet (though I prefer a 4:3 screen to 16:9 - the industry has screwed the pooch just to watch movies on a shit tiny screen, sad).

I predict the Acer and its kin will fall flat on the market.

Hm, yes? I used to bring laptop to bed with me to do some before-sleep entertainment all the time. Lay the laptop on your belly, and use touchpad and keyboard, you know? Detachable screen or not, I would probably still bring the whole thing into the bed. A touch screen in this case is just an extra aid to the trackpad because i don't have to bend my arm really bad to reach the trackpad to browse webs if you can imagine what i'm saying. Integrating touch screen with Windows interface is another story and it is up to Microsoft. I'd say it is still better than having a laptop w/o touch screen, at least in bed (or when you're half-laying in the couch). On the desk, i probably will still use keyboard and trackpad with minimal use of the touchscreen. Again, it's just the larger sized "iPad+BT keyboard" model, with an extra trackpad, and a more versatile desktop OS solution. I assume that you meant that 13'' is not ideal for many people, then there is 11'', even thought i'd still prefer 13''. If 11'' is still too large... Well, then, here is what we (or you guys) have to compromise. I can arguably use those 10''ish tablet (not so different from 11'', right?) more comfortably in the bed without a keyboard (or KB dock) in the way, i can even take them to school and take notes, but say if i wanna travel away from home for a month, i don't wanna drag around my SFF desktop, and i don't have a laptop, can I only bring an iPad with me? No, at least not for me. Why I'm saying the above solution is a good idea to me is because with minimal compromise from me, I get to integrate a tablet feature i.e. touchscreen with a full laptop, and if the screen was detachable for that Acer, even better.

And just went thru your comment again, i agree that it is probably impossible to use touchscreen to do some real work in Windows, but then that is why there is keyboard and trackpad. Besides, it is probably impossible either to do some real work in tablet and those mobile OS either, right? We got not real Office in these portable OS (that's an important thing for a Windows guy here), so say if i could ever become a business man, can I rely on a tablet to do some real work such as Excel, Access, Visio, and so on? Most likely not. Even to just use these tablet to take notes at school, I'm pretty sure most of people cannot stand only using a stylus to handwrite on the screen, which was why those BT keyboards for tablet were very popular and became instant successes. Now, is carrying around a tablet and a keyboard so different than carrying around a laptop with detachable screen? Even better, i can use that laptop to do some serious work. Even if the screen can't be detached, like that Acer above, I think that solution brings me more benefits than costs.

And I think here goes the constraint of these mobile OS'es, they were built for intuitive touch features and entertainment features. They don't offer full experience that i get from a desktop based OS. This is also why i'm getting excited over these touchscreen enabled laptops, because at least they made the first step toward what I call "device integrations". It is a step toward downsizing my backpack in which I have all my digital devices. I don't have to carry a "smart"phone, a tablet, a laptop, and all the accessories for each of them. I think it is the easiest that we can at least start trying to combine the tablet and laptop, right? (compared to trying to combine a phone and a laptop or tablet <_<). It might not be successful when it becomes available, but at least it gives the world an idea where we're heading to. Unlike the Apple Inc., this kind of innovation (or "change to the world by Apple") does not mean that there is one more thing that we need to buy from them and carry around, and there is no pun intended.

These are just my opinion, of course. Some people may find different uses in these devices that were mentioned above than what I found.