Two things I want AMD to do going forward regarding graphics

tybert7

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I am one of the few amd fanboys, so I want to see them succeed over nvidia. One of the main problems is that nvidia has more fanboys and the neutral team is not as large as some people suggest, but to make a play for them you can't leave ANY gaps in the armor for the army of nvidia trolls to spread fud over AMD with.


To that end amd needs to retool to primary things.'


1) Release Cadence - AMD needs new gpu parts across the line every year. Part of the current performance gap is that amd has not really released anything in what seems like almost 2 years. If possible, it would be useful to release an entire lineup of the latest and greatest GCN vs 1.X or whatever it may be called in the futire. From mid range (the low end is gone now) all the way to the top.

This does not mean it has to be on an entirely new architechture, it could just be on a refined process or saving that, a more creatively designed chip. One of the things that's come out about Carrizo is that the chip achieves some of the gains of a die shrink by more densly and intelligently packing the components on the chip. Now that was their apu, they might not have the same room to do that on a gpu if that was already part of the structure, but if gains can be made there, make them.

Efficiency is important as well. Everytime someone makes a chip that takes more power to do more work it seems to work poorly. The pentium 4, the gtx 480, the 290x. The last was a good part but again, the nvidia fanboys will pounce on the competitor doing the same or better work with less energy used. REMOVE those gaps. do not let them have the high ground in those areas or the PRIME Trolls of the world will salivate with glee at the potential to rub salt in those areas and twist the knife they've already lodged in AMDs back when every other post. Hopefully arctic islands renews a focus here, and that will assist amd in getting parts in notebooks as well.


2) Freesync. I wish AMD had a two tier labeling scheme, the more general name currently used would show whether the monitor was tested to support the adaptive sync spec. But AMD needs to go deeper to certify (and reward) monitors makers that go out of their way to create panels with greater vrr windows, like the new nixeus that starts at around 30Hz all the way to 144. Same goes for any overdrive/ghosting issues. These things need to be ironed out to work flawlessly, and I am sure they can be. But when products come onto the market where the freesync alternatives are defficient in some way, even if they are not all freesync displays, it taints the entire picture and casts a pall on the entire lot of them in the minds eye.

PCPER did a hit job on freesync, even before it was tested they threw out presumption after presumption that gsync with their module was inherently superior due to some magical voodoo fairy dust, but you know what? Those smaller vrr windows, coupled with the ghosting issues on that SINGLE monitor, and the behavior of the vrr display below the threshold vs gsync gave them PLENTY of hooks to grapple onto to cheer their own preferred nvidia solutions over AMD while also putting amd down and casting doubt on their entire operation.

This can be solved though. Call it a hyper certification (please someone come up with something cooler than that) where AMD sets out certain properties for a display to hit (i.e. a minimim refresh window and propery synergistic overdrive functions). Those displays will likely command a slight premium due to being designed properly, and AMD gets some cheaper design wins where they slap the smug sneers off the nvidia fanboys looking to troll amd harder.
 
Stop fucking up drivers, and get out ahead of big game releases. Shortly after big games are released, in depth walk throughs on how to get the best performance and/or image quality for each game. If there are green team settings messing with performance, here is how you get around them. Some schmuck on Reddit shouldn't be 2 steps ahead of AMD.

Horsepower has rarely been a problem with AMD. Implementing it has. Nothing less than a complete overhaul of the driver team and tying it into marketing will help them.
 
Better crossfire support. Sometimes it takes them months to get profiles out for new games.
 
Better crossfire support. Sometimes it takes them months to get profiles out for new games.

Now you know why they want to push DX12 where developers have to make the tough choices ;) .
 
Better crossfire support. Sometimes it takes them months to get profiles out for new games.

to be fare nvidia's missed the ball on some games as well which i think a bit of the blame should go on the shoulders of the developers not giving Nvidia or AMD the games/final release versions in time to actually make correct profiles.
 
They need to finish the corporate restructure and get on track with both GPU and CPU releases. I do not expect them to beat Intel, but at least release cpu refreshes that are close in a regular basis. On the GPU side, they do need to improve driver support along with improving Linux drivers.

DX12 will help AMD more than NVIDIA to start but AMD will need to keep that advantage going forward. I really want to see them work on developing mixed APU+GPU to allow an APU to pick up some of the work. It would also be nice if NVIDIA played nice so you could have a mixed APU + AMD GPU + NVIDIA GPU so you could have all the features and benefits of all cards in one system.
 
All that does is push crossfire support down to individual developers. I can't see that going very well.
Then you don't understand DX12/Mantle 2.0. That is the number one biggest change in DX12 is the potential boost to multi-graphics hardware setups (both dedicated and integrated), and AAA title budgets are growing by such leaps and bounds every year ($60 million and rising, when I still remember $1 million spent on game development being insane) that there simply won't be any excuse to ignore it and still compete.

http://www.overclock3d.net/articles/gpu_displays/amd_explains_dx12_multi_gpu_benefits/1

So really DX12 should be renamed DX-fire/SLI, since with buffer stacking and SFR, it can be truly game changing.
 
I understand the claims but your post is a non-sequitor to my point that the implementations rely on individual developers, which is a huge ask in today's market.
 
I understand the claims but your post is a non-sequitor to my point that the implementations rely on individual developers, which is a huge ask in today's market.

Well it's been baked into the game engines for many months in advance. Even the game engines where "B" gaming titles originate have had DX12 support for awhile. This isn't a situation like where DICE was helping to invent and sculpture Mantle on the fly with AMD.
 
Since my post in 2009, I just want to be able to do PLP eyefinity! :(

If you are planning on using this with a 3x1 EyeFinity setup you will need atleast 1 active adapter.

Keep in mind they don't support portrait+landscape+portrait yet.

:eek: WHAT???

Well, that is a show stopper for me then.

I knew it was to good to be true :(

PK, thanks for the post. You just saved me $500!
 
that first part is no longer true, GCN 1.1/1.2 have 3 legacy ports now.

and the 285/tonga now supports PLP, as will Fiji
 
Since my post in 2009, I just want to be able to do PLP eyefinity! :(
High resolution curved ultra-wide 21:9 monitors have kinda rendered PLP obsolete.

You're getting the same effect of PLP without a bezel and only needing one power and video cable, a clearly superior solution IMO, and the software still lets you section your screen into effective PLP divisions for window snapping if desired.
 
21:9 isnt even close to the same real estate as PLP.

its basiclly just 50% more horizontal real estate.

Basically like adding half a monitor.
 
Stop fucking up drivers, and get out ahead of big game releases. Shortly after big games are released, in depth walk throughs on how to get the best performance and/or image quality for each game. If there are green team settings messing with performance, here is how you get around them. Some schmuck on Reddit shouldn't be 2 steps ahead of AMD.

Horsepower has rarely been a problem with AMD. Implementing it has. Nothing less than a complete overhaul of the driver team and tying it into marketing will help them.

IMHO, AMD doesn't really release fucked up drivers (sometimes they do, but not any more/less than anybody else.) What they need to concentrate on is releasing drivers that are completely inline with the DX specifications. DirectX has a reference driver, to show you exactly how your game should render on hardware. If the driver is up to spec, then that reference driver and the GPU driver should render identically. AMD needs to focus on that, and as far as I know, they are more in line with that specification than Nvidia is (I have my own applications that demonstrate it.).

That's the problem. Games often do things incorrectly because Nvidia is incorrect with the spec. So when the game runs on AMD hardware, it doesn't work quite right. But AMD is the one closer to the spec. It's like web rendering standards. Websites might program to IE, even though IE is incorrect and might cause issues on Firefox, even if Firefox is closer to the standard

The issue is that the typical idiot user has no idea what's going on. It's not for AMD to program their drivers to make them incorrect because that's what NVIDIA does, but in a lot of times, that's what they do.
 
IMHO, AMD doesn't really release fucked up drivers (sometimes they do, but not any more/less than anybody else.) What they need to concentrate on is releasing drivers that are completely inline with the DX specifications. DirectX has a reference driver, to show you exactly how your game should render on hardware. If the driver is up to spec, then that reference driver and the GPU driver should render identically. AMD needs to focus on that, and as far as I know, they are more in line with that specification than Nvidia is (I have my own applications that demonstrate it.).

That's the problem. Games often do things incorrectly because Nvidia is incorrect with the spec. So when the game runs on AMD hardware, it doesn't work quite right. But AMD is the one closer to the spec. It's like web rendering standards. Websites might program to IE, even though IE is incorrect and might cause issues on Firefox, even if Firefox is closer to the standard

The issue is that the typical idiot user has no idea what's going on. It's not for AMD to program their drivers to make them incorrect because that's what NVIDIA does, but in a lot of times, that's what they do.

I've had three different crossfire setups throughout the years. Tell me again that AMD gets drivers right, in respect to crossfire.

I need another laugh this morning.
 
I've had three different crossfire setups throughout the years. Tell me again that AMD gets drivers right, in respect to crossfire.

I need another laugh this morning.

AMD crossfire drivers are better than Nvidia's (when they are released) (just check out FCAT results) but both suck anyway so what is the point of even comparing them.
 
AMD crossfire drivers are better than Nvidia's (when they are released) (just check out FCAT results) but both suck anyway so what is the point of even comparing them.

Again, as someone who has had 4850/7950 and 290 crossfire - I'll keep my opinion. My point with the comparison is that AMD has always been the price/performance target, and the marketing has been that just buy 2 cards if you really need the horsepower instead of the single card offering from Nvidia.

The problem with that mantra is that if the drivers are not up to snuff, the single AMD card is not capable of delivering satisfactory performance.

My solution now? Two top end cards, instead of two 'value performance' cards from AMD. Even with one card, I will still get acceptable baseline performance.
 
Again, as someone who has had 4850/7950 and 290 crossfire - I'll keep my opinion. My point with the comparison is that AMD has always been the price/performance target, and the marketing has been that just buy 2 cards if you really need the horsepower instead of the single card offering from Nvidia.

The problem with that mantra is that if the drivers are not up to snuff, the single AMD card is not capable of delivering satisfactory performance.

My solution now? Two top end cards, instead of two 'value performance' cards from AMD. Even with one card, I will still get acceptable baseline performance.

I don't know who told you two buy two cards for crossfire or why you believed them but that is something I would not do with either team unless I wanted my PC to look cool.
I had Nvidia sil as well as crossfire: Yeah those couple of games you can play on them is great but for all the other games you get to use one card instead of two.
The only way to go is the single best card there is regardless of which team you are buying.
 
I am one of the few amd fanboys, so I want to see them succeed over nvidia. One of the main problems is that nvidia has more fanboys and the neutral team is not as large as some people suggest, but to make a play for them you can't leave ANY gaps in the armor for the army of nvidia trolls to spread fud over AMD with.


To that end amd needs to retool to primary things.'


1) Release Cadence - AMD needs new gpu parts across the line every year. Part of the current performance gap is that amd has not really released anything in what seems like almost 2 years. If possible, it would be useful to release an entire lineup of the latest and greatest GCN vs 1.X or whatever it may be called in the futire. From mid range (the low end is gone now) all the way to the top.

This does not mean it has to be on an entirely new architechture, it could just be on a refined process or saving that, a more creatively designed chip. One of the things that's come out about Carrizo is that the chip achieves some of the gains of a die shrink by more densly and intelligently packing the components on the chip. Now that was their apu, they might not have the same room to do that on a gpu if that was already part of the structure, but if gains can be made there, make them.

Efficiency is important as well. Everytime someone makes a chip that takes more power to do more work it seems to work poorly. The pentium 4, the gtx 480, the 290x. The last was a good part but again, the nvidia fanboys will pounce on the competitor doing the same or better work with less energy used. REMOVE those gaps. do not let them have the high ground in those areas or the PRIME Trolls of the world will salivate with glee at the potential to rub salt in those areas and twist the knife they've already lodged in AMDs back when every other post. Hopefully arctic islands renews a focus here, and that will assist amd in getting parts in notebooks as well.


2) Freesync. I wish AMD had a two tier labeling scheme, the more general name currently used would show whether the monitor was tested to support the adaptive sync spec. But AMD needs to go deeper to certify (and reward) monitors makers that go out of their way to create panels with greater vrr windows, like the new nixeus that starts at around 30Hz all the way to 144. Same goes for any overdrive/ghosting issues. These things need to be ironed out to work flawlessly, and I am sure they can be. But when products come onto the market where the freesync alternatives are defficient in some way, even if they are not all freesync displays, it taints the entire picture and casts a pall on the entire lot of them in the minds eye.

PCPER did a hit job on freesync, even before it was tested they threw out presumption after presumption that gsync with their module was inherently superior due to some magical voodoo fairy dust, but you know what? Those smaller vrr windows, coupled with the ghosting issues on that SINGLE monitor, and the behavior of the vrr display below the threshold vs gsync gave them PLENTY of hooks to grapple onto to cheer their own preferred nvidia solutions over AMD while also putting amd down and casting doubt on their entire operation.

This can be solved though. Call it a hyper certification (please someone come up with something cooler than that) where AMD sets out certain properties for a display to hit (i.e. a minimim refresh window and propery synergistic overdrive functions). Those displays will likely command a slight premium due to being designed properly, and AMD gets some cheaper design wins where they slap the smug sneers off the nvidia fanboys looking to troll amd harder.

That's quite a list of demands there, and easier said than done.

I will say however, that your apparent position is that AMD's problem is primarily chinks in their armour that nvidia fan boys exploit is just way off, sorry.

AMD's problem is money, or more accurately, lack of.

This means that, unlike nvidia, they can't shoot for the stars and let their product lineup trickle down; they just can't afford the R&D. So instead they have to aim at the middle, and essentially 'overclock/bin' parts to make up their high end. Watercooled solutions on stock cards is, IMHO, a factory OC.

When you're always aiming at the middle, hitting the top becomes a game of chance. AMD flat out don't compete with the Titan* family right now because they can't.

*top end single GPU, air-cooled, aimed at gaming market
 
I've had three different crossfire setups throughout the years. Tell me again that AMD gets drivers right, in respect to crossfire.

I need another laugh this morning.

I'm talking specifically DirectX specifications. And like I said:

"AMD doesn't really release fucked up drivers (sometimes they do, but not any more/less than anybody else.)"

Crossfire may have had bad drivers. So has SLI. So has Nvidia with cards exploding. AMD with sleep issues, or cursor corruption. Sure, some scenarios with both companies have given issues over the years.

But what I want is that the card does exactly what the specifications say. Render this there and I want to make sure it does it right.

AMD in my experience has done that better.
 
I'm talking specifically DirectX specifications. And like I said:

"AMD doesn't really release fucked up drivers (sometimes they do, but not any more/less than anybody else.)"

Crossfire may have had bad drivers. So has SLI. So has Nvidia with cards exploding. AMD with sleep issues, or cursor corruption. Sure, some scenarios with both companies have given issues over the years.

But what I want is that the card does exactly what the specifications say. Render this there and I want to make sure it does it right.

AMD in my experience has done that better.

Believe what you want then. I've spent more than enough money on AMD, and ended up unhappy with them every time past the X850.

Sort of silly to keep throwing good money after bad.

More and more games will have the Gameworks logo, for better or worse, and I'm not going to wait days for Reddit to figure out workarounds that take weeks for AMD to figure out. I'd rather spend the extra money and just not deal with being a martyr anymore for AMD.
 
21:9 isnt even close to the same real estate as PLP.

its basiclly just 50% more horizontal real estate.

Basically like adding half a monitor.
21:9 is a relatively new format, with 3440 x 1440 WQHD being the norm right now, but that can increase just as 16:9 monitors increase in size and resolution obviously. I'm sure we'll see 40" plus monitors soon if that is your concern.

LG already has a LG 105UC9 for example, which is a 21:9 105" 2160p screen, albeit at ridiculous cost last I checked.

About the highest PLP that people were doing on the forum was a 2007+3011+2007 in PLP, which is 4960 x 1600, right? Certainly higher than my LG 34" and a larger screen, but with the tradeoff of big ugly bezels, and while regular 4K at 3840x2160 is taller, they come in a variety of sizes so you have more realestate at about the same pixel density.

So I just can't see why anyone would want to put up with the downsides of PLP now that fairly similar mono-screen smoothly curved alternatives are available.
 
I would like to see more sponsored games. nvidia twimtbp seems to be quite prominent on a lot of games.
 
What I want to see from AMD is :

A) Make some effort to compete with Nvidia gameworks... Currently almost all AAA games are using gameworks which makes AMD cards either run like **** or have worse graphics with it off.

B) Better TDP

C) more consistant performance

D) Better drivers and features / more updates...

When they do ALL of these things they will be competitive with Nvidia.
 
I don't know who told you two buy two cards for crossfire or why you believed them but that is something I would not do with either team unless I wanted my PC to look cool.
I had Nvidia sil as well as crossfire: Yeah those couple of games you can play on them is great but for all the other games you get to use one card instead of two.
The only way to go is the single best card there is regardless of which team you are buying.

That may be so, but unfortunately right now for the best experience in 4k gaming you need at least 2 cards right now.
 
21:9 is a relatively new format, with 3440 x 1440 WQHD being the norm right now, but that can increase just as 16:9 monitors increase in size and resolution obviously. I'm sure we'll see 40" plus monitors soon if that is your concern.

LG already has a LG 105UC9 for example, which is a 21:9 105" 2160p screen, albeit at ridiculous cost last I checked.

About the highest PLP that people were doing on the forum was a 2007+3011+2007 in PLP, which is 4960 x 1600, right? Certainly higher than my LG 34" and a larger screen, but with the tradeoff of big ugly bezels, and while regular 4K at 3840x2160 is taller, they come in a variety of sizes so you have more realestate at about the same pixel density.

So I just can't see why anyone would want to put up with the downsides of PLP now that fairly similar mono-screen smoothly curved alternatives are available.

I prefer the trade off and keep my 4960 x 1600.
 
I'm talking specifically DirectX specifications. And like I said:

"AMD doesn't really release fucked up drivers (sometimes they do, but not any more/less than anybody else.)"

Crossfire may have had bad drivers. So has SLI. So has Nvidia with cards exploding. AMD with sleep issues, or cursor corruption. Sure, some scenarios with both companies have given issues over the years.

But what I want is that the card does exactly what the specifications say. Render this there and I want to make sure it does it right.

AMD in my experience has done that better.

I've noticed artifacts in a lot of games with AMD cards. Always seems to be an issue, especially with smaller titles. Most if not all DX9 titles were artifacting for a lot of people, myself included, for months a couple of years ago.

I'll give amd another chance but its going to have to be significantly cheaper than a comparable Nvidia card.
 
D) Better drivers and features / more updates...

Seriously, when is the last time that AMD added or even added better support to any feature in the control panel? TRSSAA flat out doesn't work. SSAA compatibility is iffy. I can't believe that you still can't force vsync.

They had the chance to hire japamd I'm sure but choose not to release anything to take better advantage of their hardware. I don't get it.
 
Here's what I want to see out of AMD:
1. Lower power consumption.
2. Less heat output.
3. Performance gains of at least 20% generation to generation.
4. Better drivers/Xfire support.
5. Regular (annual?) product release cycles while meeting or exceeding the above criteria.
6. Win (for everyone).
 
Here's what I want to see out of AMD:
1. Lower power consumption. NOPE
2. Less heat output. NOPE
3. Performance gains of at least 20% generation to generation. YES
4. Better drivers/Xfire support. NOPE
5. Regular (annual?) product release cycles while meeting or exceeding the above criteria. NOPE
6. Win (for everyone). NOPE
 
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