Tweaktown HD 2900XT Review

Wow this is pissing me off. 6 months of agony for nothing. Damn you ATI/AMD. :mad: ..|..
 
HMM, this review has some gapping holes:
-Only used 8.36 drivers which we all know are in the "raw"
-Did not OC the video cards
-Provided only min and average fps. Where is the max fps?
-Did not include the GTS
 
Well guys, I think it's way too early to freak out over "performance". My guess is that in a few hours AMD will have the latest driver for download, and over the next two months those cursing AMD/ATI will quietly pickup one of these as the drivers have matured. We'll see. also, what's with everybody benching he thing with under-spec'd PSU's? For example, your RAM will boot at 1.8v, but don't expect to get its best with 1.8v!
 
Either way doesn't look like GTS/GTX Owners are going to need to trade up :rolleyes:

I'm glad I didn't wait for it.
 
actually min FPS perf. and FPS perf. at very high quality is not too shabby on the 2900 XT. i wish review sites would post game benches when overclocked. i think a 2900 XT oc to 850/1000 will be very close to stock GTX.
 
What's up with the 500w psu that no one has ever heard off before? And benching it with a card that isn't even its competitor....:(
 
LawGiver said:
actually min FPS perf. and FPS perf. at very high quality is not too shabby on the 2900 XT. i wish review sites would post game benches when overclocked. i think a 2900 XT oc to 850/1000 will be very close to stock GTX.
Click to expand...

And pull their noses out of Nvidia's nice, warm, advertising-dollar farting arse? Why would they do that? :p Seriously though, even at stock, using admittedly immature drivers, it's a hair less than 1000 points behnd the GTX in high res 3DMark06? That's promising to me, as ATI's driver team is superior and can close that gap a fair bit.
 
Well, there are obviously driver issues when it is running slower than a 1900 XTX in some games.
 
Hell brother, I'm getting the first one that I lay eyes on! :D Look at CoH Avg Frame rate @ 2560x1600, only three frames behind the GTX. The 2900XT holds closer to the GTX in games that weren't specifically optimized for Nvidia (i.e., non-Doom3 based).
 
also, i play on a 19" LCD 1280x1024 so i probably wouldn't notice the difference.
 
LawGiver said:
also, i play on a 19" LCD 1280x1024 so i probably wouldn't notice the difference.
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Well, for how much longer, though? Between Vista and hardware vendors and software programmers, soon that won't be enough for any of us. The HD 2900XT is obviously going to shine brighter in two or three months once the new games come out. And no offense intended my friend, but looking at your sig, an upgrade isn't very distant in your future!
 
this is what i mean, they said it perfectly:

"What is interesting are our results at the 2560 x 1600 resolution – both products have their share of driver issues (which need to be sorted out quickly!) but from our testing at this point in time, the HD 2900 XT makes a really good showing at the 2560 x 1600 resolution. In games like Prey, Company of Heroes and Far Cry, the more expensive 8800 GTX really only has a small lead over the XT. In real-world terms, both offer basically about the same level of game play experience in terms of smoothness and we put that down to the massive 106GB/s of memory bandwidth from the R600, which is able to be properly utilized at this ultra-high resolution. With some overclocking of the core and memory, the HD 2900 XT could probably match or better the more expensive 8800 GTX ......."
 
Pepsiennis said:
And pull their noses out of Nvidia's nice, warm, advertising-dollar farting arse? Why would they do that? :p Seriously though, even at stock, using admittedly immature drivers, it's a hair less than 1000 points behnd the GTX in high res 3DMark06? That's promising to me, as ATI's driver team is superior and can close that gap a fair bit.
Click to expand...

It's been hinted at multiple times here and elsewhere that the 3DMark scores for the 2900 XT are to be taken with a grain of salt.

And ATi does NOT have a better driver team than nVidia. Releasing a driver every month != better drivers.
 
LawGiver said:
this is what i mean, they said it perfectly:

"What is interesting are our results at the 2560 x 1600 resolution – both products have their share of driver issues (which need to be sorted out quickly!) but from our testing at this point in time, the HD 2900 XT makes a really good showing at the 2560 x 1600 resolution. In games like Prey, Company of Heroes and Far Cry, the more expensive 8800 GTX really only has a small lead over the XT. In real-world terms, both offer basically about the same level of game play experience in terms of smoothness and we put that down to the massive 106GB/s of memory bandwidth from the R600, which is able to be properly utilized at this ultra-high resolution. With some overclocking of the core and memory, the HD 2900 XT could probably match or better the more expensive 8800 GTX ......."
Click to expand...

It looks to me like the 2900 XT is really unbalanced and has a bunch of driver problems, but overall is a really nice piece of hardware. And ATi has done a good job positioning it between the 8800GTS and 8800GTX for a very nice price. I hope to see the 8800GTX coming down in price soon...:)

The question is, can ATi get the drivers ironed out before nVidia releases something even faster?
 
^eMpTy^ said:
It's been hinted at multiple times here and elsewhere that the 3DMark scores for the 2900 XT are to be taken with a grain of salt.

And ATi does NOT have a better driver team than nVidia. Releasing a driver every month != better drivers.
Click to expand...

Well, it's a matter of opinion and of familiarity (if one has an ATI card and updates his driver from release to release). I'd point out that ATI's team had its butt in gear for Vista, and has had very little time to optimize for the recently finalized specs of the HD 2900XT. As evidence, see the performance jump from 8.36 to 8.37 drivers. No, with a finalized piece of hardware (a stationary target to focus on), we'll be seeing some fun things very soon, I expect.
 
Chris_B said:
Because you said so?
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Well I'd be happy to debate it with you. The story is the same as it's been for years: nVidia does OpenGL, Linux, multi-monitor, professional apps, and multi-gpu better than ATi.

ATi's driver team has focused purely on gaming and yet they don't have a clear lead in this area, so I've gotta think that nVidia just has a better driver team. nVidia's drivers just do more.

Now, I wouldn't go so far as to say that ATi's drivers for consumer cards are 'bad', or even that they're inferior to nVidia's drivers, they're obviously highly competitive world-class video card drivers.

However, when you talk about the driver team itself, I think it's pretty clear that nVidia's boys are just getting more work done.
 
Pepsiennis said:
Well, it's a matter of opinion and of familiarity (if one has an ATI card and updates his driver from release to release). I'd point out that ATI's team had its butt in gear for Vista, and has had very little time to optimize for the recently finalized specs of the HD 2900XT. As evidence, see the performance jump from 8.36 to 8.37 drivers. No, with a finalized piece of hardware (a stationary target to focus on), we'll be seeing some fun things very soon, I expect.
Click to expand...

I think you'll soon see ATi going through the same DX10/Vista growing pains that nVidia has experienced over the last 6 months or so. And I agree there's some performance left to squeeze out of R600, but I'm not expecting miracles. If they had 20% more performance to squeeze out of the thing, they would have waited and charged a hell of a lot more money for it.
 
i think the bottom line is the new R600 is not any real competition to the latest from NV, and certainly isn't going to be leapfrogging it anytime soon, will have to wait for R650/R700 for that....but i think this was a waste of time, this is so weak and so far late it's an embarrassment ....too bad, and for all those that were saying wait for R600 before you buy into 8800....looks like that was the wrong thing to do after all, i am a bit miffed because now Nvidia doesn't have to reach as hard or far to make a successor to their own card, there is not ATI card to beat, which means they will be more conservative in their next project, lack of competition stifles progress !!:mad:
 
The main things i care about in a driver are speed and reliability. Ati delivers these regularly, ive seen no end of complaints about the state of nvidia's vista drivers and theyre just now starting to get them into shape, conveniently around the launch of the 2900xt. Makes me wonder what would have happened if the xt launch was in july or august.

I dont use multi monitor or anything like that, but for opengl, does anyone realy care about opengl anymore? opengl's main stalwart "id" shifted their develoment to direct 3d for their new engines and the fact theyre developing on the 360 now. I think that enemy territory quake wars could very well be the last "big" opengl game. Ati may be somewhat slower in opengl but nowhere near being unplayable despite what people spout off on forums (omg my card gets 100 fps yours only gets 95 you are teh suck).

Ive had experience with ati crossfire (x1900xt) and never really had any problems with it. it performed well and i never encountered any stability issues. No experience with sli yet but that could change in the future :)
 
nobody_here said:
i think the bottom line is the new R600 is not any real competition to the latest from NV, and certainly isn't going to be leapfrogging it anytime soon, will have to wait for R650/R700 for that....but i think this was a waste of time, this is so weak and so far late it's an embarrassment ....too bad, and for all those that were saying wait for R600 before you buy into 8800....looks like that was the wrong thing to do after all, i am a bit miffed because now Nvidia doesn't have to reach as hard or far to make a successor to their own card, there is not ATI card to beat, which means they will be more conservative in their next project, lack of competition stifles progress !!:mad:
Click to expand...


Dunno what you're being so doom and gloom about, with one driver change the performance improved a lot for the xt, the card obviously is not being shown to its full potential so far and it may take a few weeks for drivers to come available to let ti show what it can do.

Also we have the lost planet dx10 demo tomorrow, what if the xt spanks the gtx in that or at the very least is as fast as the gtx?
 
nobody_here said:
i think the bottom line is the new R600 is not any real competition to the latest from NV, and certainly isn't going to be leapfrogging it anytime soon, will have to wait for R650/R700 for that....but i think this was a waste of time, this is so weak and so far late it's an embarrassment ....too bad, and for all those that were saying wait for R600 before you buy into 8800....looks like that was the wrong thing to do after all, i am a bit miffed because now Nvidia doesn't have to reach as hard or far to make a successor to their own card, there is not ATI card to beat, which means they will be more conservative in their next project, lack of competition stifles progress !!:mad:
Click to expand...

Now we only have to tell them to wait a few more months for the R650. :D :(
 
^eMpTy^ said:
Well I'd be happy to debate it with you. The story is the same as it's been for years: nVidia does OpenGL, Linux, multi-monitor, professional apps, and multi-gpu better than ATi.

ATi's driver team has focused purely on gaming and yet they don't have a clear lead in this area, so I've gotta think that nVidia just has a better driver team. nVidia's drivers just do more.

Now, I wouldn't go so far as to say that ATi's drivers for consumer cards are 'bad', or even that they're inferior to nVidia's drivers, they're obviously highly competitive world-class video card drivers.

However, when you talk about the driver team itself, I think it's pretty clear that nVidia's boys are just getting more work done.
Click to expand...

Which is why NV has a class action suit against them for their Vista drivers? Most of what you said was opinion, not fact. You cant assert your opinion as a fact to stand on.
 
fallguy said:
Which is why NV has a class action suit against them for their Vista drivers? Most of what you said was opinion, not fact. You cant assert your opinion as a fact to stand on.
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Oh please, that class action lawsuit is a joke. If class action lawsuits meant anything, ATi would have been out of business a long time ago:

http://law.taragana.net/archive/ati-in-class-action-danger/
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=31533
http://www.sharkyextreme.com/news/article.php/1581381

And I stated my opinion, yes, but I think they're widely accepted opinions with a lot of evidence to back them up. So if you want to disagree on any particular point I'd be happy to debate the issue with you.
 
Chris_B said:
The main things i care about in a driver are speed and reliability. Ati delivers these regularly, ive seen no end of complaints about the state of nvidia's vista drivers and theyre just now starting to get them into shape, conveniently around the launch of the 2900xt. Makes me wonder what would have happened if the xt launch was in july or august.

I dont use multi monitor or anything like that, but for opengl, does anyone realy care about opengl anymore? opengl's main stalwart "id" shifted their develoment to direct 3d for their new engines and the fact theyre developing on the 360 now. I think that enemy territory quake wars could very well be the last "big" opengl game. Ati may be somewhat slower in opengl but nowhere near being unplayable despite what people spout off on forums (omg my card gets 100 fps yours only gets 95 you are teh suck).

Ive had experience with ati crossfire (x1900xt) and never really had any problems with it. it performed well and i never encountered any stability issues. No experience with sli yet but that could change in the future :)
Click to expand...

And this proves my point precisely. ATi and all their fans constantly make excuses as to why they have relatively poor linux/opengl/multi-monitor/etc support...nVidia doesn't need to make any such excuses, they do a great job across the board. And that's what makes nVidia's driver team better.

I understand that it's hard to decouple this assertion with the fact that you personally have had a good experience with ATi's drivers...but realize that you've had a good experience with ATi precisely because you don't use opengl/linux/multi-monitor/sli/etc...

So, obviously, if the only thing you've ever experienced is the one thing that ATi's driver team has done well, you're naturally going to think that ATi has a great driver team...but you might want to consider that there are a lot of other users out there that don't share that same viewpoint.
 
Chris_B said:
Dunno what you're being so doom and gloom about, with one driver change the performance improved a lot for the xt, the card obviously is not being shown to its full potential so far and it may take a few weeks for drivers to come available to let ti show what it can do.

Also we have the lost planet dx10 demo tomorrow, what if the xt spanks the gtx in that or at the very least is as fast as the gtx?
Click to expand...

If anything, I would expect the gtx to pull farther ahead in DX10. G80 is beating R600 because G80's scalar architecture is far more efficient with heterogeneous workloads...and I'm guessing that workloads in DX10 games will only get more heterogeneous.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
And this proves my point precisely. ATi and all their fans constantly make excuses as to why they have relatively poor linux/opengl/multi-monitor/etc support...nVidia doesn't need to make any such excuses, they do a great job across the board. And that's what makes nVidia's driver team better.

I understand that it's hard to decouple this assertion with the fact that you personally have had a good experience with ATi's drivers...but realize that you've had a good experience with ATi precisely because you don't use opengl/linux/multi-monitor/sli/etc...

So, obviously, if the only thing you've ever experienced is the one thing that ATi's driver team has done well, you're naturally going to think that ATi has a great driver team...but you might want to consider that there are a lot of other users out there that don't share that same viewpoint.
Click to expand...



Lol what do you mean excuses? Not everyone uses multi monitor, not everyone uses linux, and how many opengl games are there in the pipeline these days? What everyone does who buys a gaming card though is play games with it. The only reason nvidia fans harp on and on about opengl performance is becuase nvidia drivers run it better, seriously though who really cares?

Opengl seems to be going the way of the dodo, as i said ID software was the one developing engines specifically for opengl, now they've switched to d3d i don't see many more games coming for it. nvidia may have had faster opengl drivers but contrary to popular belief ati drivers weren't as far behind in terms of performance as some people try to make out.

Ive owned a geforce 2 and a geforce 6800gt, for their time they were obviously good cards, had no complaints at all about them.
 
" Published: 13th May 2007 @ 11:52 AM
Author: Cameron Wilmot

We are having massive server issues bringing you the HD 2900 XT review.

We will put it online tomorrow when other sites release their reviews to balance the load.

Sorry but our servers aren't up to this amount of hits."
 
Chris_B said:
Lol what do you mean excuses? Not everyone uses multi monitor, not everyone uses linux, and how many opengl games are there in the pipeline these days? What everyone does who buys a gaming card though is play games with it. The only reason nvidia fans harp on and on about opengl performance is becuase nvidia drivers run it better, seriously though who really cares?

Opengl seems to be going the way of the dodo, as i said ID software was the one developing engines specifically for opengl, now they've switched to d3d i don't see many more games coming for it. nvidia may have had faster opengl drivers but contrary to popular belief ati drivers weren't as far behind in terms of performance as some people try to make out.

Ive owned a geforce 2 and a geforce 6800gt, for their time they were obviously good cards, had no complaints at all about them.
Click to expand...

lol...by 'excuses' I mean pretty much exactly what you just posted.
 
I mirrored most of the review, but I'm hesitant to put it up for public consumption for various reasons. But if anyone wants to see it, pm me and I'll send you the link. :)
 
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