Turnstile Power Generator

H

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
Why hasn't anyone come up with an idea like this before? Think about how many times a day these things are turned in a busy subway. Hell, tack similar generators onto the exit turnstiles and revolving doors in hotels too while you are at it. :D
 
I wonder how much power one of those would produce on a busy day.

Assuming it lasts as long as a regular turnstile, probably enough to make it cheaper in the long run.
 
You'd make out ahead by investing all that material and money to make it a solar panel.

Think. Hand Crank Generator. Its impossible to produce that much electricity even over time to make up the initial cost or maintenance of the device.
 
spamdie said:
You'd make out ahead by investing all that material and money to make it a solar panel.

Think. Hand Crank Generator. Its impossible to produce that much electricity even over time to make up the initial cost or maintenance of the device.
Click to expand...

But if they were already going to install a regular turnstile...how much extra does it cost to add some copper windings and a magnet?
 
The powal of Many....Little Chinese man clossing the Tulnstyle.

In All seriousness. It makes sense this is a Chinese design. If someone was to notice this it was the Chinese because they're many.
 
You can almost picture all of the people being herded through these.... like cattle... wait a sec... scratch all that.... big companies would never look at us that way.
 
HOCP4ME said:
But if they were already going to install a regular turnstile...how much extra does it cost to add some copper windings and a magnet?
Click to expand...

Probably at the very least double. At least until they were widely adapted and mass produced with a lot of competitors.
 
The effort and cost it would take to produce any payback in real energy storage will never see the ROI. Ever.
 
How about something like this for treadmills at gyms? A decent warm-up, work-out & cool-down would probably be able to charge your mp3/cell enough for the duration.
 
What a great idea! The next logical step is to install treadmills on the waiting platforms.

Once that's working well, we can take the floors out of all the trains and buses and have the passengers propel them with their feet... WIIIIIILMAAAA!!!
 
Steve said:
Why hasn't anyone come up with an idea like this before?
Click to expand...

They did, I remember reading a few years back about some students who came up with the idea for revolving hotel doors, as well as piezoelectric floors etc etc. However, for cost reasons (among other things) I see this as a "green" tech and not a money saving or practical tech.

kuyaglen said:
How about something like this for treadmills at gyms? A decent warm-up, work-out & cool-down would probably be able to charge your mp3/cell enough for the duration.
Click to expand...

Problem is that treadmills use power, to make a moving "road" under your feet. Now, if you had some kind of purely hydraulic stair stepper etc or resistance weight machine, it could work, but these machines cost allot already, and for the cost of electricity would never pay for them selves in their whole life time. So, again, becomes a "green" only tech and is never really useful. And because of this (until the tech gets super cheap, if ever) will never be used on any large scale as a offset other than to get headlines to say "we are green!".

People also forget it's not a simple, "copper windings and a magnet", you have to look at hooking into the power grid, converting the power from DC, or the storage of the power if its being made and not used etc etc.
 
Okay, enough yankodesign links. They are pipe dreams. Things created by design (as in "graphic design", not engineering) students. Just look at the tagline "Form Beyond Function".

Most things on yankodesign have very little, if any, actual engineering analysis done, and DEFINITELY no financial analysis. They are "cool things to look at that would be wonderful if possible and economical to make".

Although, now that I look deeper at this one, it does have more technical detail than most items on that site...
 
BlueFireIce said:
Problem is that treadmills use power, to make a moving "road" under your feet. Now, if you had some kind of purely hydraulic stair stepper etc or resistance weight machine, it could work, but these machines cost allot already, and for the cost of electricity would never pay for them selves in their whole life time. So, again, becomes a "green" only tech and is never really useful. And because of this (until the tech gets super cheap, if ever) will never be used on any large scale as a offset other than to get headlines to say "we are green!".
Click to expand...

Dude the have had exercise bikes with digital panels that were only powered by you pedaling for years. Back when I lived with my parents they had an old used one, its probably over 10 years old now, and it was certainly never expensive even when new. Somebody could easily use that same design and add a usb port to it or something for cell phone charging.
 
CharonPDX said:
Okay, enough yankodesign links. They are pipe dreams. Things created by design (as in "graphic design", not engineering) students. Just look at the tagline "Form Beyond Function".

Most things on yankodesign have very little, if any, actual engineering analysis done, and DEFINITELY no financial analysis. They are "cool things to look at that would be wonderful if possible and economical to make".

Although, now that I look deeper at this one, it does have more technical detail than most items on that site...
Click to expand...

I agree but I wasn't sure. But it makes sense. A serious engineering project belongs in a paper not two masturbation pictures.
 
BlueFireIce said:
Problem is that treadmills use power, to make a moving "road" under your feet. Now, if you had some kind of purely hydraulic stair stepper etc or resistance weight machine, it could work, but these machines cost allot already, and for the cost of electricity would never pay for them selves in their whole life time. So, again, becomes a "green" only tech and is never really useful. And because of this (until the tech gets super cheap, if ever) will never be used on any large scale as a offset other than to get headlines to say "we are green!".

People also forget it's not a simple, "copper windings and a magnet", you have to look at hooking into the power grid, converting the power from DC, or the storage of the power if its being made and not used etc etc.
Click to expand...

There are many "green" gyms that already use power generating elipticals and stationary bikes. One way to get energy from a treadmill is adding a flywheel.
 
tubular said:
Dude the have had exercise bikes with digital panels that were only powered by you pedaling for years. Back when I lived with my parents they had an old used one, its probably over 10 years old now, and it was certainly never expensive even when new. Somebody could easily use that same design and add a usb port to it or something for cell phone charging.
Click to expand...

If you really think that is the case then you have very little understanding of the power requirements of even charging a cell phone vs a digital panel is, go look at the cost for one of the real cycles that can put out enough power to do more than just a digital panel, you will see they run into the thousands, while energy costs are in the cents per kWh, to recover the cost of the bike, well, needless to say, because most of these bikes, according to the mfg's own claims, can put out around 150w in a "normal" workout and as such, if you had that person never missing a work out and put out 150w every time, you might pay it off in about 500,000 years. I also never said that it could not put out power, however, to be of any impact, the added cost for the power output would not be economical.
 
I don't think you can generate energy from a treadmill -- the exercise device must be human powered, like a cycle machine or elliptical. Humans can't sustain more than a few watts (300?) generation without rapid exhaustion.

The turn-style generator is useless!
 
I bet it shocks you, especially if you wear denim...

At the grocery store they have these little shopping carts that are 1/3rd the size of a regular one and every time I get one I get shocked through the handles. They ripped out all the tiles and went with a coated concrete floor so it builds up a charge as I go along. It gives me free shock therapy as I go down the milk aisle and OH WHAT FUN when I touch that metal freezer door...

I bet the turnstyle does that too...
 
How about just turning your chair you're currently sitting on into a stationary bike where you pedal to generate the power your computer needs to surf the interwebs? You stop when you're done. :D
 
This turnstyle generator might not make a lot by itself but when added to solar panels say on the roof, a revolving door that generates electricity , and wind turbines it would all add up.
 
OK, where are the posters saying they would never use this because it's stealing energy from them (like the energy producing pads they are installing at some drive-thrus)?

jwalk6 said:
I bet it shocks you, especially if you wear denim...

At the grocery store they have these little shopping carts that are 1/3rd the size of a regular one and every time I get one I get shocked through the handles. They ripped out all the tiles and went with a coated concrete floor so it builds up a charge as I go along. It gives me free shock therapy as I go down the milk aisle and OH WHAT FUN when I touch that metal freezer door...

I bet the turnstyle does that too...
Click to expand...
No, the turnstile works by physicial movement of the arms, not static electricity.

I think a lot of people are ignoring how wired-up modern turnstiles already are. I don't remember the last time I used one that wasn't electromechanically locked until a security badge was swiped or subway token inserted. Plus, they are ratcheted and further throttled so they don't spin freely. These turnstile generators would provide a bit of free juice for the locking and tracking functions while providing tension for free.

It's a turbine with people as the fluid. Surely we can build turbines pretty cheaply these days--they're only used for every form of power generation except solar.
 
srangara said:
OK, where are the posters saying they would never use this because it's stealing energy from them (like the energy producing pads they are installing at some drive-thrus)?

No, the turnstile works by physicial movement of the arms, not static electricity.
Click to expand...

Lol, the poster was just complaining about static shocks, not suggesting it was the source of the power.

Link for the drive-through energy producing pads? Google fails me.

You are correct -- generating electricity is never free, and so when "free" electricity is generated, something or someone else is doing the work. Unless you've harnessed a natural cycle of nature, then yeah you're cost-shifting to other people.

For instance assume the turn-style worked. Then the crowds are burning more calories to spin the turn-style. This makes them each need a few more calories, which translates into food costs. And no, you can't hand wave this and claim, well it's essentially free! Because it's not, and it's measurable.
 
How much power would it make? Not a hell of a lot. Do you have any idea how much energy it would take for you to push a mid sized car (~3500lbs) for 40 miles? All that energy can be yours for only 3$ in the form of gasoline, which frankly isn't that efficent of an energy source when used in an ICE.

But hey, lets double the cost of a turnstyle so it can pay for it's self in 50 years, to bad they will only last 10 years.
 
BlueFireIce said:
If you really think that is the case then you have very little understanding of the power requirements of even charging a cell phone vs a digital panel is, go look at the cost for one of the real cycles that can put out enough power to do more than just a digital panel, you will see they run into the thousands, while energy costs are in the cents per kWh, to recover the cost of the bike, well, needless to say, because most of these bikes, according to the mfg's own claims, can put out around 150w in a "normal" workout and as such, if you had that person never missing a work out and put out 150w every time, you might pay it off in about 500,000 years. I also never said that it could not put out power, however, to be of any impact, the added cost for the power output would not be economical.
Click to expand...

Funny, and here I thought hand crank chargers were pretty inexpensive, having seen a few on the market for a mere $25. And that is just hand cranking for few minutes. Granted they barely give you much of a charge, but if you take similar system on an exercise bike, you could get a much better charge. Will they be able to match a traditional cell phone charger? No, but they may give enough charge to keep the cell phone going while on the bike.

Then of course there is this:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-20006677-54.html

and this:
http://scienceshareware.com/bgsp.htm

and this:
http://www.ikonglobal.com/

and to do it yourself:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Bike-that-charges-your-cell-phone-as-you-ride/


The solutions aren't the "thousands" of dollars you seem to think and can be done yourself. They are not the be all and end all solutions, but they can certainly help. Also for those who exercise regularly by riding their bikes, they can help keep their ipods or zunes charged while they are riding, which is probably the primary use for those devices.
 
CharonPDX said:
Okay, enough yankodesign links. They are pipe dreams. Things created by design (as in "graphic design", not engineering) students. Just look at the tagline "Form Beyond Function".

Most things on yankodesign have very little, if any, actual engineering analysis done, and DEFINITELY no financial analysis. They are "cool things to look at that would be wonderful if possible and economical to make".

Although, now that I look deeper at this one, it does have more technical detail than most items on that site...
Click to expand...

Firstly these aren't graphic design students, these are industrial and product designers, ones that are actually employed. Secondly they probably have engineers that work for them. Lastly, it's the idea the promotes innovation not an engineer, not a scientist, just an idea. Why say no, it's way more fun to say yes and see where it leads.
 
NoOther said:
Funny, and here I thought hand crank chargers were pretty inexpensive, having seen a few on the market for a mere $25. And that is just hand cranking for few minutes. Granted they barely give you much of a charge, but if you take similar system on an exercise bike, you could get a much better charge. Will they be able to match a traditional cell phone charger? No, but they may give enough charge to keep the cell phone going while on the bike.

Then of course there is this:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-20006677-54.html

and this:
http://scienceshareware.com/bgsp.htm

and this:
http://www.ikonglobal.com/

and to do it yourself:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Bike-that-charges-your-cell-phone-as-you-ride/


The solutions aren't the "thousands" of dollars you seem to think and can be done yourself. They are not the be all and end all solutions, but they can certainly help. Also for those who exercise regularly by riding their bikes, they can help keep their ipods or zunes charged while they are riding, which is probably the primary use for those devices.
Click to expand...
25$ for a charger at 150 watts an hour gives you an ROI of almost 5 years if you ride your bike an hour a day. If you include any amount of value for the time to install your system the your going to jump your ROI for another couple of years.


It's a complete joke.
 
Proud to see almost everyone saw the ROI problem with this sucker!

It's like most windmills, the energy used to make the stupid thing (from raw materials all the way through assembly), transport it, and install it often exceeds the realistic lifetime output. This is a bit different but still a waste of $ and resources...
 
I'll be behind this once they start turning the normal US postal delivery jeep/trucks into fully electric vehicles with solar panels and a charging station and put solar panels on the roofs of all post offices to generate power wherever they are. They'd save millions in fuel costs.
 
satsunada said:
I'll be behind this once they start turning the normal US postal delivery jeep/trucks into fully electric vehicles with solar panels and a charging station and put solar panels on the roofs of all post offices to generate power wherever they are. They'd save millions in fuel costs.
Click to expand...

No they wouldn't. If it would save millions then every coporation in america would be doing it right now. Every wal-mart would have thier roofs and their semi's covered in them. The ROI on solar panels is shit.
 
vengence said:
No they wouldn't. If it would save millions then every coporation in america would be doing it right now. Every wal-mart would have thier roofs and their semi's covered in them. The ROI on solar panels is shit.
Click to expand...

It's not for every industry. Not every industry has something that needs as much power as a golf cart roaming the roads. Coupled with the fact that post offices are everywhere and use little to no electricity beyond lighting and computers and MAYBE some sorting equipment and it's a way to help the community.

I completely agree it's a bad idea for semi's but there thousands of tiny jeep things that move 20 feet and stop for a whole day and barely break 40 mph in cities. It's perfect for them.

Besides, what's the post office got to lose? They are already wildly in the red every year and fuel costs kill them. Does it not make sense to try and do something a little different?
 
satsunada said:
but there thousands of tiny jeep things that move 20 feet and stop for a whole day and barely break 40 mph in cities. It's perfect for them.
Click to expand...

Link please, to any solar panel that fits on top of jeep and can cause jeep to drive around under the power of said solar panel all day at less that 40 mph.

The optional one on the latest Prius augments just for the A/C while sitting still, and you think it can move the whole vehicle?
 
satsunada said:
It's not for every industry. Not every industry has something that needs as much power as a golf cart roaming the roads. Coupled with the fact that post offices are everywhere and use little to no electricity beyond lighting and computers and MAYBE some sorting equipment and it's a way to help the community.
Click to expand...
Electricity from a power line is cheaper than electiricty from a panel. It's not a choice of one not being able to supply enough power, it's a matter of one being more expensive than the other.

I completely agree it's a bad idea for semi's but there thousands of tiny jeep things that move 20 feet and stop for a whole day and barely break 40 mph in cities. It's perfect for them.
Click to expand...
It's still more expensive. The chevy volt costs 40K (before tax credit) where as they're probably paying 15-20K for a mail truck. So that's what you're looking at to get an electric vehicle with a battery and everything. So we're already 20K in the red. But now you want to run it off only solar power. If you're lucky you'd be able to squeeze 3- 200W 26V units on it. With 3 of those pannels (~2K$ cost btw) you'd need to have them sitting in sunlight for 26 straight hours for the volt to run 100 miles. After you factor in inefficenties (like the sun not at optium angles to the roof, clouds, rain, shade from buildings, etc) you're looking at probably 100 hours to run 100 miles, or 1 hour of sun per mile driven. That's hardly enough to drive a mail route, especially for something that's now a 40-45K mail truck.

Besides, what's the post office got to lose? They are already wildly in the red every year and fuel costs kill them. Does it not make sense to try and do something a little different?
Click to expand...
There's 50,000 or so mail trucks on the road, so only about 2 billion dollars. But hey, what's 2 billion dollars between friends?
 
I wonder how much power this thing can generate if we assume 4 turnstile revolutions per minute.

This reminds me of that fast food joint that wanted to put a speed bump near its drive-through area to harness the weight of a car going over it to generate power for the restaurant.
 
beowulf7 said:
I wonder how much power this thing can generate if we assume 4 turnstile revolutions per minute.

This reminds me of that fast food joint that wanted to put a speed bump near its drive-through area to harness the weight of a car going over it to generate power for the restaurant.
Click to expand...

How much force do you want it to take to push the turnstile? If you make it 100,000,000 tons then lots! Anything reasonable and you're going to get a worthless amount of power.
 
Looks like some people here get it, you have to look at the entire process.

Somewhere a manufacturer is expending energy and rare materials to even form this device.

Knowing what I know about generators I don't think this is worth while, either from an energy savings perspective and certainly not considering cost savings.

I hate items like this because most higher ups would see an idea like this and think "OOHHH Green let's invest" even though it does more harm than good. The downfall of having a trendy cause I suppose.
 
This idea could, in theory, work but only because turnstiles are supposed to provide some push-back anyway. They would, simply, need to make the existing mechanism more free spinning and use the generator/flywheel to provide the mechanical resistance. The real problem, as has already been stated, lies in the added up-front cost of the generator, flywheel, and power conversion hardware as well as ramping it all up to gain mass production cost savings. In the end, you would have to calculate the power output of one rotation; perform reliability studies; and research traffic studies at major urban public transit stations to figure out if this makes any sense.

As for all the other ideas that people have mentioned seeing in the past (exercise machines, rotating doors, power harvesting drive-throughs, power harvesting shoes, etc.), before even bothering with a cost-benefit analysis you have to ask yourself if it's really worth doing at all. Is this effort you'd already be doing anyway? Traditionally, pushing a revolving door/turnstile or using an exercise machine are both activities intentionally made artificially difficult for alternate reasons. In those cases, it might make sense to try and harvest energy (as many exercise machines already do since the person's exercising serves to power the machine itself).

In the case of energy harvesting floors and drive-throughs, why would I want to waste ANY of my car's, relatively inefficiently generated, power (which I pay for) to help power my local McDonald's? The same holds true for any other business using energy harvesting floors. On the other hand, energy harvesting shoes (and any other energy harvesting devices worn to help generate portable devices on the person wearing them) should, ideally, take a barely noticeable extra amount of physical effort and provide a tangible benefit to the user (a cell phone that doesn’t run out of power as often/quickly).

As for all the other ideas that people have mentioned seeing in the past (exercise machines, rotating doors, power harvesting drive-throughs, power harvesting shoes, etc.), before even bothering with a cost-benefit anaysis you have to ask yourself if it's really worth doing at all. Is this effort you'd already be doing anyway? Traditionally, pushing a revolving door/turnstile or using an exercise machine are both activities intentionally made artificially difficult for alternate reasons. In those cases, it might make sense to try and harvest (as many exercise machines already do since the person's exercising serves to power the machine itself).

In the case of energy harvesting floors and drive-throughs, why would I want to wast ANY of my car's, relatively inefficiently generated, power (which I pay for) to help power my local McDonald's? The same holds true for any other business. For that matter
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top