TT Bigwater 745, good for someone starting out?

[RobotChild]

I may be buying a Thermaltake Bigwater 745, along with a dangerden waterblock for skt A.
I know I have seen a lot of bashing of the Bigwaters, but I just need something to start out with.
(Will be my first time WC'ing)

How is the Bigwater745 for a noobie?

 

[nonlnear]

Try this one if you want a CPU only kit with a single 120mm radiator. Everything part in this kit kicks the ass of every respective part in the Bigwater kit: pump, block, radiator, reservoir. Plus you get a radbox and smartcoils.

(Your mobo has the 4 holes, right?)

 

[RobotChild]

Yeah, I'm currently using a Zalman 7000B AlCu cooling my OC'd 2600+.
The temps are pretty decent 36 idle, 42 load but I want to get the overclock a little higher than 2.25GHz.

I was considering the other because I could pick one kit up used for 115$.

Also, I will be buying other waterblocks for the video card, and chipset later on.

 

[nonlnear]

I'd say it's not a bad deal at $50 if you're desperate to do watercooling for dirt cheap. Any more than that and you're better off sticking with air. (Even at $50, some people here would tell you not to bother.)

Also the bigwater is not a system that's suitable for upgrades. The pump is too anemic for more blocks in the loop, and the radiators are a lot worse than other 120mm radiators on the market. (Any radiators that have S-shaped tubes through fins are much more restrictive than they need to be.) The swiftech kit I pointed out has a pump that can push water well through a couple blocks, and the radiator is a lot better too. If you put more blocks in you'll need more than a 120mm radiator, but you might think about keeping the 120mm unit in your loop anyways, because it doesn't completely suck.

Look at your total cost after doing any upgrades. If you get the Bigwater and then want another block in the loop, you'll need to buy a radiator ($r), the extra block(s) ($b), and a pump/res ($p). And you've got the initial cost of $115. That's $r+$b+$p+$115.

If you get the Swiftech kit, you'll need a radiator ($r) (actually, you might end up getting a single and running dual singles, but the savings would be minimal at best, so we'll keep it simple and call it $r), the same block(s), but you can keep the pump/res from the original kit. Total: $r+$b+$150.

So you've got to ask yourself if you can find a pump/res that's as good as or better than the the MCRES-1000P for less than $35. And the answer... not a chance - even used. And that's not even taking into account the fact that the Apogee is better than the CPU block in the Bigwater kit.

Even if you want to keep the Bigwater radiators, you're still not going to be able to get a comparable pump/res for much cheaper than $80. (The $35 + about $45 for a decent 240mm replacement radiator.

But to answer your initial question: The Bigwater is fine - for a noob. What I mean by that is that it is only fine in the opinion of noobies. When you feel you are ready to call yourself something other than a "noobie" at watercooling, you will not think it's fine. Period.

 

[RobotChild]

Not suitable for upgrades?

I don't need to read any further.

I can get one of these for 119$
http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=184&cat=65&bestseller
Good deal for a good system (If it is good)?
I can also get a Maze4 GPU waterblock for 30, and a Zalman CPU block for 30.
(He'll also throw in a free pump. He thinks it's a Mag 2 or Mag 3)

So that'll come to 180$, if I get all that would I need to upgrade any further?

 

[codegrinder]

does anyone know if the 745's 3/8" equipment is compatable with other 3/8" equipment like danger den blocks? or are they using od instead of id?

 

[nonlnear]

Not suitable for upgrades?

I don't need to read any further.

I can get one of these for 119$
http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=184&cat=65&bestseller
Good deal for a good system (If it is good)?
I can also get a Maze4 GPU waterblock for 30, and a Zalman CPU block for 30.
(He'll also throw in a free pump. He thinks it's a Mag 2 or Mag 3)

So that'll come to 180$, if I get all that would I need to upgrade any further?

That's definitely better than the Bigwater. One important thing: if you're cooling a CPU and a GPU that both put out a decent amount of heat, you need at least a 240mm radiator (or a PA120.1, or dual BI/wiftech 120mm rads) to get good temps. a 120mm radiator will be OK, but it won't give you the cooling capacity you need to really push things. If you get either the Swiftech kit or the dangerden one that you linked to, you could also get a second 120mm radiator to give you the needed cooling capacity.

If you desperately need to keep the budget down right now, then $120 for that dangerden kit is alright. But if you get the Swiftech kit and throw in the GPU block for $30, you come out to the same $180 total, and you've got a much better pump - and a better CPU block. (The DDC is the best pump out right now hands down - unless you need something a LOT bigger. Also, the maze4 CPU block isn't as good as the Apogee, but it's a LOT better than the Bigwater's block. It is a good match for the small MAG pump though, as it's not very restrictive.)

P.S. In case it seems like I'm really pushing hard for the svc deal, I don't work for any parts store. I'm just trying to connect people who've got questions with what I believe to be the most appropriate hardware for the best price available. Sometimes it's Petra's, sometimes it's dangerden (back when they had 20% off everything), and right now it happens to be svc.

 

[RobotChild]

Allright, I'll be getting that Swiftech kit.
(If SVC doesn't ship to Canada I'll order from Xoxide, or just get the DangerDen one)

I'll still be getting the Maze4 waterblock for the video card.
But I am wondering which would be a good Rad. to replace the one that comes with those kits..?

I was considering this
http://www.xoxide.com/dd-black-ice-xtremeii-38.html
But I am going to ask if it'd just be a better option to get this
http://www.xoxide.com/dangerden-black-ice-extreme-38.html
to add to the other 120mm rad.

 

[BillParrish]

How is the Bigwater745 for a noobie?

excellent, more cooling than you will need, easy to install in most cases and if not, try this.

http://mysite.verizon.net/ressdxka/id3.html

So that answers you question but although I see you mention socket A what i would want to know before I started saying buy this, buy that, etc. is, what are your future plans for a computer and what exactly is your current processor and overclock goals

 

[BillParrish]

Also the bigwater is not a system that's suitable for upgrades. The pump is too anemic for more blocks in the loop, and the radiators are a lot worse than other 120mm radiators on the market. (Any radiators that have S-shaped tubes through fins are much more restrictive than they need to be.)

Pure horsecrap.

The older Tt had the anemic pump, if you bothered to look you would see the 745 has a 400L/hour pump. Radiators with S shaped tubes flow much more freely than the heater core type that use flat tubes and are typically not single pass. However there are exceptions to both cases and if you want to get technical there is quite a body of thought that low flow thru the rad gives the fluild more time to loose its heat. In short it matters more that the entire system is balanced for flow and heat dissipation capacity.

Not suitable for upgrades ? How ? Why ? more crap. see my sig. and note the E6300 section of the Conroe overclocking database in the intel processors forum.

I can get one of these for 119$
http://www.dangerdenstore.com/produ...t=65&bestseller

Thats a good deal !!!!

 

[BillParrish]

Everything part in this kit kicks the ass of every respective part in the Bigwater kit: pump, block, radiator, reservoir. Plus you get a radbox and smartcoils.

OK, so lets see...

A 350 L/H, 50,000H mtbf, 24 ~ 26 dBA ipump kicks the ass of a 400L/H 70,000H mtbf 16dBA pump ? Show me the proof please.

Block - hmm maybe, but the Tt sure works good enough and i would want to see some hard data before I shot my mouth off. But I am not you.

A 1x 120mm rad ( with an airflow restricting hunk of ugly sheet metal sucking warm case air if mounted as recommended ) beats a 1x 120mm rad AND a 2 x 120mm rad with pure ambinent intake air ? Show me the proof please.


Covered the chokebox above.

I am having to guess here as the "spec" on the kit do not say but the smartcoils are needed to compensate for the crap plain PVC tubing you get. You dont need them with the Tt hose.

Reservoirs do nothing to the thermal performace of a WC system and you loose a bay with the "kick ass kit" The Tt res works fine.

The "kick ass kit" does support socket A with 4 holes in the MB, the Tt does not. IMO that is the only critera worth a damn. Although there is a clip that can be special ordered for K7,s

wont mention the quick hose connections, UV features yada yada.

 

[Merc]

Might want to look at this kit as well although it is more than you want to spend.
http://www.xoxide.com/swiftech-h2o-apex-ultra-plus.html

FWIW, Maximum PC reviews:

DD Custom AMD Kit 8/06
http://www.maximumpc.com/2006/07/danger_den_cust.html

TT Bigwater 745 5/06
http://www.maximumpc.com/2006/05/thermaltake_big_1.html

Swiftech H20-120 Premium 5/06
http://www.maximumpc.com/2006/06/swiftech_h20120.html

Swiftech Apex Ultra 4/06
http://www.maximumpc.com/2006/03/swiftech_apex_u.html

 

[nonlnear]

OK, so lets see...

A 350 L/H, 50,000H mtbf, 24 ~ 26 dBA ipump kicks the ass of a 400L/H 70,000H mtbf 16dBA pump ? Show me the proof please.

The DDC is in very select company when it comes to pump performance for watercooling applications. If you really want to argue that the Bigwater's pump is superior because they write a bigger (imaginary) number before MTBF, I won't stop you. Ever wonder why Thermaltake doesn't quote the max head pressure of the Bigwater pump on their product info page? How about 7ft of suckage? (That's the only number I could find anywahere. I'm taking it with a grain of salt, as it's not from a site I know to be reliable, but Thermaltake's silence about one of the two most important pump stats speaks volumes.)

Looking at the DDC is like porn for engineers. Pure economy of design. Gobs of head pressure, ample flow rate even in a restrictive loop - unlike some pumps...

Block - hmm maybe, but the Tt sure works good enough and i would want to see some hard data before I shot my mouth off. But I am not you.

Um sure. I just shoot my mouth off without hard data. Whatever.

A 1x 120mm rad ( with an airflow restricting hunk of ugly sheet metal sucking warm case air if mounted as recommended ) beats a 1x 120mm rad AND a 2 x 120mm rad with pure ambinent intake air ? Show me the proof please.

When did I say it should suck warm case air? Argue with me all you want, but please don't put words in my mouth. It's not flattering.

My point about the radiator was simply based on the fact that any company selling a watercooling kit with a "contorted tube" type radiator (or worse, two of them) is like a car company selling cars with wooden wheels. It's just plain stupid. They are inferior in every way - except for the novelty of the fact that they are obsolete antiques.

A 120mm swiftech radiator won't outperform the combined cooling power of the Bigwater's ugliness, but it's something that won't have to be thrown out when it's time to upgrade. I pity the fool who tries to cool a hot CPU, NB, and two GPUs with the combined radiating power of the 745's prize gems. Just because they have rom for three fans on them doesn't mean they're equivalent to other 3x120mm solutions - one piece or two.

Covered the chokebox above.

I am having to guess here as the "spec" on the kit do not say but the smartcoils are needed to compensate for the crap plain PVC tubing you get. You dont need them with the Tt hose.

Reservoirs do nothing to the thermal performace of a WC system and you loose a bay with the "kick ass kit" The Tt res works fine.

The "kick ass kit" does support socket A with 4 holes in the MB, the Tt does not. IMO that is the only critera worth a damn. Although there is a clip that can be special ordered for K7,s

wont mention the quick hose connections, UV features yada yada.

Fair enough. I'm sure many will argue that the Bigwater has superior hoses, connectors, and reservoir to the Swiftech kit. Touche. (The reservoir is a matter of personal preference as to case layout.) And I think we both agree about the significance of UV reactivity: I don't care about it either.

I know there are some people who think Thermaltake is wonderful. I know there are some people who think that they are complete crap. (Believe it or not, I'm not one of them.) I'm not going to convince you that the Bigwater is not a fabulous value. You like it and that's fine. But did you ever wonder why it is that nobody views the Bigwater kit as "aspirational"? It's because it's solidly mediocre (at best). It sells because it is at a lower pricepoint than higher performing solutions. It has its place, and I'm okay with that.

The kit I recommended, on the other hand, has a radiator that is close to the best in class (the class being reasonably priced 120mm rads - Thermochills are in a class of their own), The best small loop pump bar none - except possibly the DDC+, and one of many roughly equivalent CPU blocks that all represent a solid value. Also one of the favorite reservoirs available. (Granted if you can't spare a bay it's a bad choice.) Tell me what's wrong with offering the alternative that I did?

 

[danks]

The DDC is in very select company when it comes to pump performance for watercooling applications. If you really want to argue that the Bigwater's pump is superior because they write a bigger (imaginary) number before MTBF, I won't stop you. Ever wonder why Thermaltake doesn't quote the max head pressure of the Bigwater pump on their product info page? How about 7ft of suckage? (That's the only number I could find anywahere. I'm taking it with a grain of salt, as it's not from a site I know to be reliable, but Thermaltake's silence about one of the two most important pump stats speaks volumes.)

Looking at the DDC is like porn for engineers. Pure economy of design. Gobs of head pressure, ample flow rate even in a restrictive loop - unlike some pumps...

Ya know, I was wondering why i couldnt find the max head pressure of that Thermaltake pump anywhere on their site. If that 7ft number is at all close I cant blame them for not mentioning it.

 

[Bbq]

OK, so lets see...

A 350 L/H, 50,000H mtbf, 24 ~ 26 dBA ipump kicks the ass of a 400L/H 70,000H mtbf 16dBA pump ? Show me the proof please.

You Actually believe TT's DB ratings? Assuming it can do what they say, there is NO mention of head pressure. That's just as important as Lph / Gph.

Block - hmm maybe, but the Tt sure works good enough and i would want to see some hard data before I shot my mouth off. But I am not you.

Other blocks are way better. The TT style is just a few loops around. Doesn't really work too well since most cpu's have the core's in the center, and the TT block doesn't reduce the laminer flow, yadda yadda. I'm not saying you should compare the block to a storm, but what about something like an apogee, TDX, or a whitewater? Those blocks are just significantly better.

A 1x 120mm rad ( with an airflow restricting hunk of ugly sheet metal sucking warm case air if mounted as recommended ) beats a 1x 120mm rad AND a 2 x 120mm rad with pure ambinent intake air ? Show me the proof please.

Considering that the TT rad is the looping, a billion pass type, which kills the flow, and that even Max PC's testing shows that the Swiftech kit is about 1 degree worse, but that's with a 1x120, vs tt's 3 x 120's..

I am having to guess here as the "spec" on the kit do not say but the smartcoils are needed to compensate for the crap plain PVC tubing you get. You dont need them with the Tt hose.

You are assuming that everyone uses plain crap PVC. Many people go with Masterkleer, or Tygon, which doesn't need the smartcools. Bent enough, Any tubing will kink. Tygon, Masterkleer, PVC, even your TT stuff.

Reservoirs do nothing to the thermal performace of a WC system and you loose a bay with the "kick ass kit" The Tt res works fine.

Res' don't do much. But why not save even more room and just get the integrated pump-bay-res, so you can save on that room too? If not, then why not a T-line, since they save even more room? Most of us don't use all of our bay's.

wont mention the quick hose connections, UV features yada yada.

How often do you undo your water and put it back together, for fun? Besides, if you don't have the additional radiator, you wouldn't need quick connects. UV, just go buy a bottle of the UV dye. Pentosin in red or blue, or the additive that swiftech comes with.


Go with Petra's kits. Way better than the TT.

 

[BillParrish]

you made your points I made mine, not going to waste bytes about it, again, its about a packaged system and 7ft of head is plenty with the rad design and low restriction block in the kit. I got one of these kits in case you didnt notice and I also have several Old school 1/2 id + DD + heatercore yada yada. So I know both, The Tt bigwater 745 works very well, no I would not use it to cool a prescott but who the hell is buying a prescott these days. And the Tt with the small pump are crap but the 745 is an excellent kit for the price with a tremdous amout of cooling capacity for the money.

I stand on the results of actually using this kit in my machine.and the results I got which are posted and confirmed. Unless you have tried a 745 and found it lacking is some way I can understand you are not making an impression on me cost vs results My issue is with "experts" saying something is bad without anything to back it up while I sit in front of a machine with a 745 installed with the 3rd best E6300 overclock on the forum.



actually I take it back, no reason it wouldnt cool a prescott overclock.