TSMC Is All About Crypto Suddenly

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by rgMekanic, Jan 19, 2018.

  1. rgMekanic

    rgMekanic [H]ard|News Staff Member

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    The world's largest chip manufacturer, TSMC is producing chips exclusively for miners. James Wang, analyst for ARKInvest, formerly from NVIDIA tweeted today that Bitmain is now buying 20,000 16nm wafers a month from TSMC, which is more than NVIDIA. An article on Barron's yesterday, Christopher Rolland, Semiconductor Analyst at Susquehanna International Group states that the cryptocurrency boom has "substantial long-term risks for both companies as mining profitability may have induced 'false purchases' of more and higher-priced cards.”

    It looks to me like we're charging into an interesting time when it comes to mining soon. With TSMC cranking out more and more silicon for companies building dedicated mining hardware. This could be a very good thing for gamers, as miners would/will be moving away from consumer cards and onto mining specific hardware.

    Rolland, who has Neutral ratings on both AMD and Nvidia, cut his price target on AMD to $13 from $15, after concluding that many people are buying GPUs as "gamers," but then using the cards just 5% of the time to play video games and 95% of the time to mine crypto-currencies.
     
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  2. Private_Ops

    Private_Ops [H]ard|Gawd

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    Ugh... I'd really like to be able to buy a new video card.
     
  3. Jim Kim

    Jim Kim 2[H]4U

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  4. MrDeaf

    MrDeaf Limp Gawd

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    I have a GTX970, so I don't need to upgrade yet, but it's kind of annoying that if I wanted to, I can't.
    There's nothing in stock, not even GTX 1080Ti
     
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  5. HTElectrical

    HTElectrical n00b

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    X2
     
  6. Hornet

    Hornet [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well, as long as it doesn't cause shortage of supply for GPU
     
  7. atp1916

    atp1916 [H]ard|DCoTM x1

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    Naw man. Those wafers are straight-line computation chips aka ASICs.

    GPUs will always provide the flexibility ASICs do not.

    Until AMD / NVidia decide to recognize mining market demand, these shortages will always be felt.
     
  8. sleepeeg3

    sleepeeg3 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Unlikely, because your average Joe would rather buy a card that he can stick in his system and use as well as mine. On top of that, if the crypto market tanks a mining card is worthless, whereas a consumer card still retains a good portion of its value. There would have to be a significant performance advantage to using a dedicated mining card that offsets the risk of it becoming worthless. As long as it's profitable, average Joe will still buy the multi-use card.
     
  9. mynamehere

    mynamehere [H]ard|Gawd

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    I really NEED to buy a new video card for a build. The folks had another laptop crap out. I told them that I either build a desktop, or I'm done playing pc tech. I absolutely hate working with proprietary garbage.
     
  10. JRUHg

    JRUHg Limp Gawd

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    wtf are u talking about?
     
  11. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

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    error 404 context not found.
     
  12. rgMekanic

    rgMekanic [H]ard|News Staff Member

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    Your average Joe also isn't the ones buying semi trucks full of GPUs or hiring jets to fly them in.
     
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  13. Twisted Kidney

    Twisted Kidney 2[H]4U

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    I just found out about that from a good friend in China. Some places are taking delivery of multiple containers of cards. Apparently most end up in countries under sanction.

    Can't feed your people? Just buy thousands of video cards and farm coins to bypass sanctions!
     
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  14. rgMekanic

    rgMekanic [H]ard|News Staff Member

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    Yup, back in July

    Ethereum Miners Are Renting Boeing 747s to Ship Graphics Cards
     
  15. craigdt

    craigdt [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yup this is me.
    I started mining years ago as a way to make use of my computer when I wasn't using it.

    Now have a 1060 3GB in my multi use pc and just now built a 1080ti mining rig.

    But I only did that because I'll use it in a new multipurpose pc when/if mining crashes.

    Versatility is the name of the game. For me at least
     
  16. trparky

    trparky Gawd

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    I have the money to buy the card that I want but I can't find one!!! I even have alerts for when cards come in stock but if you don't move immediately (and I do mean immediately), the stock will have been bought up within minutes. Yes, I said minutes.
     
  17. trick0502

    trick0502 [H]ardness Supreme

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    this wont free up gpus. asics are specific to certain coins. a lot of coins cant be mined on asics by design. for that reason, there will always be gpu demand by miners.
     
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  18. KedsDead

    KedsDead Limp Gawd

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    They will only move if the prices are competitive.. If they charge $6000 per unit, miners will still buy GPU's..
     
  19. Azphira

    Azphira [H]ard|Gawd

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    The Titan Xp, and the 2 special editions seem to be in stock...
     
  20. viscountalpha

    viscountalpha 2[H]4U

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    TSMC smells the money and can you blame them?
     
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  21. umeng2002

    umeng2002 Gawd

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    Hopefully they don't go Konami.
     
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  22. aaronspink

    aaronspink 2[H]4U

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    FYI, there really isn't anything that a CPU/GPU can do faster than a fixed function ASIC. It is basically impossible to design an algorithm that will work on GPUs but won't work on FF ASIC. As an example, the NSA has been custom designing ASICs for what they consider important crypto algorithms for decades and they have ASICs for even esoteric algorithms. About the only option to make ASICs somewhat non-viable is to use an algorithm that relies on an absolutely ridiculous memory requirement (we talking TBs, any memory size you can find on a PC or GPU can easily be done for an ASIC).

    Basically, if they don't have or aren't working on an ASIC for a coin, that's simply because the coin is too small to matter.
     
  23. BitMaster

    BitMaster Limp Gawd

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    This is against the idea of "mining should be able with any household GPU to fight monopolies". I wonder what the outcome will be.

    A GPU can be sold, after 6-12month, what do you do with a miner card with no video out once its obsolete ? scrap metal ?
     
  24. Twisted Kidney

    Twisted Kidney 2[H]4U

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    Yeah, I just bought one. Unbelievable.
     
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  25. trick0502

    trick0502 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Some coins by design are ASIC resistant. In simple terms the coins are designed to require lots of memory/memory bandwidth that ASICs lack. You will never see an ASIC for Ethereum for example.

    So don’t get your hopes for for miner gpu demand to drop because of this.
     
  26. I agree.

    Flexibility also means slower speed. This is why our most flexible part of our system, the CPU, is not used for video games.

    But this also means as the computational complexity of the block chain increases this hardware becomes useless because it's no longer profitable versus the electricity and you can't really resell it like a video card.

    This whole crypto currency mining thing is a bit of a house of cards. If too many people get into it, or the government puts down the ban hammer, the whole thing will come falling down.
     
  27. aaronspink

    aaronspink 2[H]4U

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    It is pretty simple to give an ASIC a lot of memory and memory bandwidth. ASICs can literally do anything GPUs or CPUs or hell even FPGAs can do in that regard. There are plenty of ASICs out there with HBM for instance (Google's Gen 2 TPU for instance has 600 GB/s of bandwidth). And ASIC for Ethereum wouldn't be that hard to do, it is basically SHA3 based and if a GPU can handle the memory requirements then so can an ASIC.
     
  28. ASIC- Application Specific Integrated Circuit. In other words you can TUNE your chip for the particular application. There is zero reason why you can't design an ASIC that has a good memory bandwidth.
     
  29. andrewaggb

    andrewaggb Limp Gawd

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    Yep, I don't think any mining algorithms can't be done by asic. Some are just harder or not as worth it.
     
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  30. TheHig

    TheHig Limp Gawd

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    What’s amazing is that with performance a touch above a 1080ti (I know very small diff) a new Titan xP at 1200 is a better buy that a 1300 dollar 1080ti. For gaming. Hilarious!
     
  31. trick0502

    trick0502 [H]ardness Supreme

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    You are right, it could be designed. Would it be cost effective? No. That’s why it hasn’t been designed.
     
  32. zkostik

    zkostik Gawd

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    I just love how folks are trying to get rich on nothing. Hopefully this bubble will soon burst. Yeah, GPU prices are just beyond ridiculous. Folks are asking $1300-1500 for a 1080ti, pure insanity...
     
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  33. aaronspink

    aaronspink 2[H]4U

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    No it would be cost effective and power effective compared to GPUs, the issue is simply that in the past, outside of bitcoin there wasn't a lot of money in the other coins.
     
  34. griff30

    griff30 I Lower the Boom!

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    It's past time that AMD and Nvidia made mining only cards.
    They would sell every damn one of them. Just saturate the market.


    Then and only then would a mainstream card become affordable and justifiable for use in PC gaming.
     
  35. The only mining cards released so far have ZERO resale value and cost more than a standard gaming GPU. The only thing redeeming about them is a custom ROM to emphasize power efficiency over speed and a warranty that covers custom ROM burns. So they weren't that appealing given the markup.
     
  36. Azphira

    Azphira [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'm afraid to buy a Titan Xp right now with Volta out and now GDDR6 being available. I just know I'll end up with remorse in a few months. Fortunately is it's been 2 years and I am interested in a gaming card that's price has horrible ROI for miners.
     
  37. JargonGR

    JargonGR Limp Gawd

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    LoL I just realized how lucky I am that I managed to get an Asus 1080Ti at normal price just before Christmas..
     
  38. Sycraft

    Sycraft [H]ardness Supreme

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    More accurate to say TSMC will make whatever you pay them to, which has always been their business model. If you are paying, they'll fab it. They don't give a shit what it is for. That's what foundries for hire do. You design a chip, they make it. They take orders from anyone who can pay, and who has a valid design for their process.
     
  39. DPI

    DPI Nitpick Police

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    Not gonna happen. Not their business model, no upside for them, introduces unnecessary risk to their IP and pricing, and ultimately they don't need to make a gimped card because they're already selling every ungimped one.

    If you guys think the tears are flowing now, just wait til Volta launches and you can't even get a 2080 for 2k.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  40. cdabc123

    cdabc123 2[H]4U

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    amd and nvidia are making a HUGE mistake by not reconizing mining. they have the opertunity to make quite abit if they did now. but more importantly if mining implodes (the ethereum fork may do it) there will be a massive flood of used cards and only people decidated to bying new will even touch the stock. If that happens they will suffer a massive loss in demand that they could have offset with extra profit from now. I feel the smart thing to do would be take preorders @msrp. then immidiatly ramp production up to deal with the demad (it will be HUGE righht now) if they do that they no longer have the issue of getting stuck with a massive amount of unsold cards.
     
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