Today Is The Last Day To Upgrade To Windows 10 Free

heatlesssun said:
It's got nothing to do with faith but an understanding of how modern software works. All non-trivial software has bugs and continuous, iterative development and delivery has become the prevailing practice in software all across the board.
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"Agile" software development may be trendy and hip, but does not create in users a sense of obligation to accept an inferior product or change for the sake of change with no notable improvements. Agile development did not give Microsoft a license to fire the entire QA division before ensuring the Windows product wouldn't become worse for it.

Users don't care how the sausage is made. And Windows 10's been a disaster that started out with a scandal (GWX), and has been in a constant state of flux ever since - often breaking or outright removing features in every major update.

In earlier Windows days, you still had real engineers and a real QA team putting out well-tested service packs that delta updated - didn't require a full-install disguised as a "feature update" that reset or outright removed installed programs. And you had windows updates you could trust, rather than having to be on guard against them. There was no selfie obsessed millennial running the show and trying to infest the desktop with useless me-too social apps and digital assistants meant for devices they aren't selling.

Windows 10's continuing anemic adoption rate - still unable to topple Windows 7 - tells you everything. Nobody's choosing it. They're ending up with it, barely tolerating it, and generally ignoring all the bloatware mobile focused crap.
 
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I look at it this way.

If your job is system administration, then you are only one update away from losing your job, if you chose to adopt Windows 10 for your company.

Even with Windows 7, I have always downloaded and tested updates, manually, before ever deploying them. And I have a list of updates I make sure never get installed. Good luck with that in Windows 10.
 
DPI said:
That "agile" software development may be trendy and hip these days does not give Microsoft a license to put out low quality, untested updates or make the Windows product worse overall.

Users really don't care how the sausage is made or whether it's trendy. They only know if it results in a better product than what came before, and in Windows 10's case it's been a disaster - an OS in a constant state of flux that breaks or outright removes features that were previously working fine, resets default programs, and adds back bloatware after you think you removed it and of course spies on your activity with no opt out.

In the Windows 7 days there were still real engineers and a real QA team putting out well-tested service packs that delta updated - didn't require a full-install disguised as a "feature update" or resetting everything. And we had windows updates you could trust, rather than having to be on guard against them. And there was no selfie obsessed millennial and her band of flunkies running the show and trying to infest the desktop with useless trendy social apps meant for devices they aren't selling.

Windows 10's continuing anemic adoption rate - still unable to topple Windows 7 - month after month, year after year, tells you everything. Nobody's choosing it; instead they're forced to deal with it because it came with a new PC, and barely tolerating it.
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Windows 10 is delivered in much the same way as major Linux distros. Continuous, iterative delivery across different branches of varying cadences.
 
As far as I know there is not a Linux distro which forces updates down your throat. I could be wrong on this one. The ones I have looked at, so far, do not do so, which is an absolute requirement for me.
 
BSmith said:
Wish you luck heatlessun. The previous director here got fired after a Windows 10 update bricked the CEO's laptop. There were other issues, but that was the straw that broke the camels back.

I am firmly convinced Windows 10 is not ready to deploy in businesses.
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We tested Windows 10 for two years before starting general deployment. It's pretty much the same type of effort we had when going from Windows XP to 7.
 
So, you started testing, pretty damn close to the day it was originally released and you decided it is ready now?

What is the name of your bank? PM if you like.
 
heatlesssun said:
We tested Windows 10 for two years before starting general deployment. It's pretty much the same type of effort we had when going from Windows XP to 7.
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Well he's saying it's the update that bricked his CEO's laptop, not the version of Windows 10 he was using. Unless you're using LTSB, Windows 10 doesn't even allow you to put off updates for 2 years does it? That's the whole point, you can test Windows 10 and be 100% sure it will work for everything you have TODAY. If a future update breaks your ecosystem, well, start over. As long as updates are mandatory, you can never really be sure something won't break, because you're not in control of your own OS anymore.
 
BSmith said:
As far as I know there is not a Linux distro which forces updates down your throat. I could be wrong on this one. The ones I have looked at, so far, do not do so, which is an absolute requirement for me.
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I get the issue but end users controlling updates isn't a panacea either, how many effective attacks on Windows worked because of unpatched systems? Obviously enterprises like us have to have more control but we also don't just ignore updates that are ripe for exploit. We run a ton of Linux servers and they get patched every month like Windows servers. It's non-negotiable in our environment.
 
In my environment it is not about allowing end users anything. Quite the opposite. I do everything I can to make sure they have as little control as possible. I control the deployment of updates in order to insure a stable and secure environment. I cannot do that with Windows 10. All my systems get patched very quickly, unless the patch causes problems.

I consider the telemetry data Microsoft gathers to be a security problem as well. Any data, leaving my network, having to do with the configuration of my systems is a security problem. If that data ever gets breeched, then our network will go down until I can reconfigure every aspect of it.
 
BSmith said:
So, you started testing, pretty damn close to the day it was originally released and you decided it is ready now?

What is the name of your bank? PM if you like.
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It takes that amount of time to do our testing and get critical parts working. Windows 7 was released in 2009. I wasn't pushed to 7 until 2013 because of a particular security product that wasn't fully compatible with 7 for devs until 2013. With all of the changes to Windows 10 from a consumer standpoint, large enterprise deployments haven't changed nearly as much.
 
Well, good luck with your deployment. I mean that.

I am still of the mind until changes are made to the administrative side of Windows 10 to allow more control over various events, it is not ready for deployment, especially in a large scale.

Our testing has not gone well with Windows 10 and so it will stay in the lab. It may never get a chance, as the switch to Linux has been going better than I expected.
 
BSmith said:
In my environment it is not about allowing end users anything. Quite the opposite. I do everything I can to make sure they have as little control as possible. I control the deployment of updates in order to insure a stable and secure environment. I cannot do that with Windows 10. All my systems get patched very quickly, unless the patch causes problems.

I consider the telemetry data Microsoft gathers to be a security problem as well. Any data, leaving my network, having to do with the configuration of my systems is a security problem. If that data ever gets breeched, then our network will go down until I can reconfigure every aspect of it.
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All of these issues and then some apply to banks sitting on some of the most valuable and sensitive data there is. Windows, even 10, is a much different thing in this type of environment than a typical home user.
 
TheOne5 said:
It keeps trying to install the Creative AE-5 driver from Windows Update which screws up the surround sound and doesn't work with Skype and other programs. I don't have any problems with the December 2017 driver from Creative's website, so I wish it would stop trying to install the February 2017 driver, mind you that the sound card was released to the public in July.
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Under settings then update then advanced you should be able to deselect give me updates for other.. may be your answer. Also under delivery options only allow PCs on local network.
 
heatlesssun said:
There are plenty of folks that use Windows 10 with a wide range of software and hardware across work and play. We're deploying 10 at work on over 200k machines and could never do so at a major bank if it we as problematic as some say it is, though that's in an enterprise environment with much more control than a typical user.
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We're nearly finished in our region and have at least as many. Add to that the global footprint with language packs, and I can only image some of the issues going on that I'd never hear about. It's been okay so far, but it still pisses me off every time a window is hidden or doesn't acquire focus when it should. Only one app broke that we can purchase to fix. For me, it still very much is like opening the jar of mayo in the fridge that's been there a few weeks. You take a sniff, think it's safe to eat, but you might really, really regret putting it on your sammich.
 
Shotglass01 said:
It's been okay so far, but it still pisses me off every time a window is hidden or doesn't acquire focus when it should.
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This has been a long standing problem with Windows. One thing that comes to mind that experiences this problem in Windows 10 for me are certain installers, like nVidia drivers. The task bar icon will flash drawing attention.

Shotglass01 said:
Only one app broke that we can purchase to fix. For me, it still very much is like opening the jar of mayo in the fridge that's been there a few weeks. You take a sniff, think it's safe to eat, but you might really, really regret putting it on your sammich.
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And ultimately it all about one's personal experience. I'm not telling someone who has specific issues with Windows 10 that they should go out and install Windows 10. If something else does the job better use that. For the things I need for both work and play Windows 10 certainly works a hell of lot better than some of the descriptions here. I have a lot of stuff that I've never used on anything but Windows 10. Most of it would work on Windows 7/8.1 but a lot of it would have issues. High DPI displays on Windows 7 are iffy at best, 8.1 is somewhat useable, 10's not perfect but quite a bit better. I wouldn't even attempt to put Windows 7/8.1 on my 15" Surface Book 2 natively.

Sometimes people confuse practicality with zealotry. If there were something better than Windows 10 for what I do then I/'d use that. There's not. One might think something like a Surface Book 2 is crap but it's the best mobile PC I've ever used, not perfect but it flies, doesn't weigh a ton, games pretty well, has great battery life and is a detachable 2-in-1. I care far more for the capabilities of my devices than the OS they run.
 
ChadD said:
Sounds like some sort of logic experiment that ends with people not running windows.

Bob is not an idiot.
All idiots that run windows < 10 = idiot
Bobs computer is not using windows > 9.999.
There for bobs computers OS ≠ windows.

I haven't posted a just run Linux post for awhile... had to. :)
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Bob's probably running OpenIndiana ;).

Truthfully, if you haven't upgraded a PC to Windows 10 by now, you probably weren't ever going to do it, so the end date for the upgrade is really a non-issue.
 
MMitch said:
Win10 license is tied to HW ID, I doubt a VM would work for that matter, simply throw an old HDD... install Win7 --> upgrade and make sure it's genuine Win10 then install original HDD back. That has WAY more chance to work.
I also think you can use your Win7 CDKEY to install win10, that should be even better than an upgrade.

That's my opinion / idea, others will confirm / deny : )
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we have win10 VM machines running to facilitate 3rd party partners to limited access to our core - requires an enterprise license.
 
Ocellaris said:
So does this mean this is the last day to clean install Windows 10 with an 8.1 key?
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BitMaster said:
I guess that period is long gone. For what is described above you need to actually upgrade to 10 from within 7, at least initially. Once installed and MS mapped your HW ID, you can install from a blank disc without any key at all.

I would tie that lic to a MS account, if it is retail, so you can reuse the lic on another PC later on. Did that for all my .ehhh like 15 Win7. I have enough 10 lics parked at MS to install it till the year 3075, hehe.
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You guys say that, but I was installing Win10 using the Win7/Win8 key upgrade path loophole until September 2017 when I installed Win10 on my fileserver in my sig. IIRC, that deal was supposed to only last a few months. I haven't done one since the Fall Creator's update, so I can't comment on whether it still works. So far, I've done a couple dozen of these installs over the past couple years, most of them on laptops using their original Win 7 keys.
 
Darkswordz said:
Windows 8.1 started off dead.
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As a Windows 8.1 user have to completely, thoroughly and most definitively...agree. And Win 10 would be even worse for me. Against my father's advice he upped to 10. Then he started hitting his data cap every other month and finally had to up his plan. MS supports ISPs making more money...nice. I already hit my cap every month (and I don't want to go out and buy a second capped account with another ISP, be cheaper to go back to satellite TV).
 
nightanole said:
Thats not bloatware free, its anorexic.

I tried it and there is way to many core components missing(that cant be reinstalled) needed for daily use. Hell i tried to install steam and i got black dos windows everywhere with errors, but they all blew by so fast i couldnt tell what each problem was.

You are better off just downloading a fresh win10 iso, and using the same program the guy used to debloat to make your own iso. Then you can use it on every pc till the next feature update hits.
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Aw man, alright, thanks for the heads-up. I used to be heavy into customizing my own Windows but I grew tired of it. I'll give it a shot though, if kaput, then I'll install whatever Linux distro looks and works nice when the time comes.
 
I went out of my way to upgrade all my 7 and 8 machines to 10 when it was totally "free". 90% of those boxes have been rebuilt or re-purposed by now, negating the effort.

Also, now that I know I can buy 10 keys on the cheap, less of a concern.
 
I use a Win10 laptop from time to time, and I just don't like the interface, primarily a lack of window borders and the flatness of everything. I find it hard to visually digest as quickly as previous versions.
 
xorbe said:
I use a Win10 laptop from time to time, and I just don't like the interface, primarily a lack of window borders and the flatness of everything. I find it hard to visually digest as quickly as previous versions.
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The biggest problem with the UI in 10 I think is consistency, so many different visual styles especially if you run apps all across the spectrum from the latest UAWs and modern desktop apps to good old classic battleship grey Win32 apps that have never updated their UIs. However there are some niceties, the per monitor task view, fast task switching with precision track pads and much better support for high-DPI display over previous Windows versions.

With the mix of keyboard, mouse and touch control and apps that span so many areas, 10 will always have consistency issues and that is a reasonable argument against the hybrid UI approach but if does add flexibility.
 
heatlesssun said:
The biggest problem with the UI in 10 I think is consistency, so many different visual styles especially if you run apps all across the spectrum from the latest UAWs and modern desktop apps to good old classic battleship grey Win32 apps that have never updated their UIs. However there are some niceties, the per monitor task view, fast task switching with precision track pads and much better support for high-DPI display over previous Windows versions.

With the mix of keyboard, mouse and touch control and apps that span so many areas, 10 will always have consistency issues and that is a reasonable argument against the hybrid UI approach but if does add flexibility.
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To me, the shift from using the Control Panel to "Settings" is a bit annoying. I don't mind having both, but they seem to be removing Control Panel options in favor of the Settings menu, which I find far less intuitive.
 
MavericK said:
To me, the shift from using the Control Panel to "Settings" is a bit annoying. I don't mind having both, but they seem to be removing Control Panel options in favor of the Settings menu, which I find far less intuitive.
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Control panel is still there, i'ts just not in the start menu anymore, if you tupe control panel (or start typing it) into the search box it'll come up, and is the same as it always was, I use it constantly heh
 
MavericK said:
To me, the shift from using the Control Panel to "Settings" is a bit annoying. I don't mind having both, but they seem to be removing Control Panel options in favor of the Settings menu, which I find far less intuitive.
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I don't think either Settings or the Control Panel are particularly intuitive but CP has obviously been around forever and long time Windows users are very familiar with it. Settings is obviously an attempt make it easier to control system settings via touch and to align it with phones. I think a typical phone user would find Settings more intuitive than CP.
 
I was gonna try and get win7 or 8 onto my latest build to take advantage of this but... then realized how much of a pain in the ass it actually is! I said eff that and just bought a cheap pro key lol.
 
rgMekanic said:
Control panel is still there, i'ts just not in the start menu anymore, if you tupe control panel (or start typing it) into the search box it'll come up, and is the same as it always was, I use it constantly heh
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I know, but as of some of the latest updates, it seems like if you click on certain Control Panel items it takes you to the Settings menu. Or, for example, Windows Update is completely gone from the Control Panel.

It just seems like a shift away from Control Panel in favor of Settings, which I am not a fan of.
 
MavericK said:
I know, but as of some of the latest updates, it seems like if you click on certain Control Panel items it takes you to the Settings menu. Or, for example, Windows Update is completely gone from the Control Panel.

It just seems like a shift away from Control Panel in favor of Settings, which I am not a fan of.
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True, Windows update is stuck in that craptastic "settings" menu. I would just like the option, I can see how "settings" is easier to understand for non-tech people, but I'm not a fan either.
 
And yet they still hide functions like you can't get to the indexing options thru any menu, doh. One has to search for "indexing" to get to the options, smh.
 
thesmokingman said:
And yet they still hide functions like you can't get to the indexing options thru any menu, doh. One has to search for "indexing" to get to the options, smh.
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There's a lot of people, on video, staring at an iphone and walking into objects/traffic... You want them playing with index or the registry if you're MS? lol
 
rgMekanic said:
Control panel is still there, i'ts just not in the start menu anymore, if you tupe control panel (or start typing it) into the search box it'll come up, and is the same as it always was, I use it constantly heh
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True but clearly Microsoft has been moving more and more functionality into Settings and trying to move away from CP. I don't see CP going away entirely anytime soon as there are a lot of 3rd party things that hook into it. For the typical user doing thing like adding printers or Bluetooth devices, etc., that's all in Settings now.
 
heatlesssun said:
True but clearly Microsoft has been moving more and more functionality into Settings and trying to move away from CP. I don't see CP going away entirely anytime soon as there are a lot of 3rd party things that hook into it. For the typical user doing thing like adding printers or Bluetooth devices, etc., that's all in Settings now.
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And to be fair, Settings has improved since launch. They have added functionality that was originally only in the Control Panel, I just find it takes longer to get to some of those options than it did with CP. Some of that I'm sure is due to lack of familiarity, but it overall seems like more clicks to get to what I want in Settings versus CP.
 
Walked into work today and my computer restarted for an update and I lost everything I had up on my screen. I had previously edited the registry to get rid of updates. I loved 8.1, Windows 10 is an absolute disaster.
 
Honestly, if you walk out of your office leaving your computer on, then anything that happens is on you and/or the company you work for. While I agree the operating system should not be doing reboots without input from the user, I struggle to have sympathy for people leaving computers on when they are unattended.

Of course, if your computer is also a server, then different story, and one I would jump on asking why the flipping hell would someone relegate a user to a server for their own use.

This coming from someone who will never use Windows 10 on any computer, by the way.

It is one of my admin pet peeves. People leaving computers on when they leave to go home. Not a good practice.
 
Nope, that was not the last day of getting a Windows 10 upgrade from free. I have been able to do the upgrade on Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 computers for the last two days, like always. Even a clean install and then putting in the Windows 7 key works like a charm.
 
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