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Titan Z released!
- Thread starter trungracingdev
- Start date
As posted in the comments for that article,
Why throw Titan Z OC into the graphs without also posting R9 295X OC for comparison? I realize this isn't a straight-up comparison of the two, but the OC results skew the graphs into looking like this could possibly be a good value. 200% the price for equal or less performance? Count me out.
Unknown-One
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By definition, to "trade blows" means that it outperforms the competition (just not in all circumstances).
Not really, he said "Titan Z is a friggin' joke"
That's pretty far from the truth. The Titan Z itself is one hell of a thing. The PRICE of the Titan Z is a joke...
The closest thing the Titan Z has to a predecessor is the GTX 690... which the Titan Z outperforms by a wide margin.
Space constraints would probably be the only reason.
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octoberasian
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Pretty much.
If any of you look at DigitalStorm's so-called review, the Z does trade blows back and forth with the 295X2-- it wins some, it loses some. The problem though, and it's a big one, is the price. For how it performs around a 295X2, just doesn't make sense. Like UOne said above, it's a "friggin' joke".
If you have $2999 to burn instead of going for dual 780 Ti or dual Titan Blacks that will be much cheaper than the Z, then go ahead. Smarter buyers that sleep with their wallets will choose something more economical based on its intended performance.
Unknown-One
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The DigitalStorm review is pretty worthless all-around.
Driver versions aren't listed, so we have no idea if the Titan Z was running with Nvidia's recent DX11 performance improvements or not. And then there's the matter of putting an OCed Titan Z in there, but not an OCed... anything else.
Not sure what they're playing at, but it just looks wrong all-around.
"Trades blows" by definition also means it underperforms, just not in all circumstances. so you're left with an average performance delta of essentially zero. Sorry, but you picked an argument with someone saying the same thing you are, and now you're managing to come out on the losing end of that argument.
A couple blacks and you're easily outperforming a Titan Z with an extra grand in your pocket. And Blacks are a much closer GPU to the Z than a 690 is.
Unknown-One
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Beside the point. You said "Trades blows isn't outperforming"
Was simply pointing out that that's incorrect. It had to outperform the competition at some point in order for the term "trading blows" to be accurate.
How does a performance delta of zero against the competing product = a net loss?
Oh right, it doesn't
Someone called the Titan Z a joke. I said the Titan Z isn't a joke, but its price is. Not hard to follow, though you seem to disagree for some reason.
Ok... so you're obviously not space constrained. Go out and get a couple Titan Blacks. What's your point?
Doesn't matter what's a "closer match," the operative word was "predecessor." The last dual-GPU card Nvidia made was the GTX 690, which would make it the predecessor to the Titan Z.
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And with that, lets go back to how this started... Buy you saying the same thing as DejaWiz, claiming you didn't, then proving you did. You can split hairs and compartmentalize the argument all you want but what won't change is you complaining that someone said the same thing you did, you just didn't like that there was a negative twist on it, and that's really what it boils down to.
I'd make friends with negative twists if I were you because there's going to be a lot of them for a $3000 card that is "hanging right along side the competition on performance" or "that can't even slightly outperform the competition's dual GPU card"
Either way you look at it, it's a horrible showing. Hardware wise, I don't see what you find so impressive when it's competition had already achieved this performance threshold, did it a couple months ago, and managed to do it with a package that costs half as much. To little, too late and too much. I don't see the redeeming qualities you keep saying exist but haven't yet pointed out.
Unknown-One
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I did not say the same thing as DejaWiz
DejaWiz said "Titan Z is a friggin' joke"
I said that the Titan Z is not a joke, but the pricetag is.
Two very different statements, which is what I pointed out originally.
The fact that there's nothing wrong with it besides the price?
Shift goal posts much?
Go back to your original reply to Deja, there was no mention of jokes. It was a performance argument, an argument you created where it didn't exist because you guys agreed on it, the only difference is you are thrilled at it's performance while he was disappointed. We all agree that pricing is a joke, but that isn't how this debate started. Again, compartmentalize and go off on whatever tangent you want, it won't change that you essentially started a debate with someone who said the same thing you did, and when it was pointed out to you, you just cried foul and decided to pretend the debate was about something else.
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Only Anandtech does great compute results, but it looks like very few reviewers will be given a card.
Besdies DP, in everything else AMD R9 cards would spank the Titan Z in compute. Very few users need DP, so AMD would still be the better buy for prosumer compute.
If you need CUDA, there a proper workstation cards for that.
I'll spend 3K on professional workstation grade cards only, not on some cross hybrid gaming card.
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trungracingdev
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The only reviews I look forward to is [H] and Anandtech. The fact that some no name website got these benches and both respectable websites can't even receive a sample is telling. Just by looking at specs alone, 2 under clocked, air cooled titan blacks in sli will have a hard time versus the water cooled and over clocked 295x2.
Hopefully [H] gets one somehow. I think you'll find that in actual gaming use it won't "hang with, trade blows", or anything else except get beat. 1-2 minute benchmarks are fine. Run this card long enough for it to warm up though, and just like the 780 ti SLI, it will fall behind the 295x2 which can maintain it's max clocks gaming for hours.
I guess you will be asking in vain. Especially since at the time the 295X2 QuadFire review was published, NVidia already had Titan Z's [thread=1816631]sitting in warehouses[/thread] waiting to be sold, and all you got from NVidia was this:
While I dislike NVIDIA's practices more often than not, I feel that PR manager's pain in not being able to say much under bad circumstances. It's alright though, since they're still leading in overall sales, but it's safe to assume that Titan Z is a failure even before release with how little confidence their PR team has in the product.
Oh well, both sides have their history of flops (AMD's being more on the CPU side). Better luck next die shrink, NVIDIA :-/
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Small form factor cases would be the few that would pay a premium for a dual gpu card, but $1000 premium (well $2k difference if you can only run one card, vs titan black price)....I don't think "many" would go that far over. I'm sure there will be a few who will however.
Even then it being a 3 slot card hurts it a bit, and I'm curious if there will be any waterblocks made for it. If they did how many would they expect to sale? Would the R&D be worth making them? I guess the people who are "price be damned" won't care, and will dish out cash for custom built blocks.
I'm betting we won't see many of these cards in build logs though, not at $3K. I wonder how long it will take nvidia to drop the price on these...
Even then it being a 3 slot card hurts it a bit, and I'm curious if there will be any waterblocks made for it. If they did how many would they expect to sale? Would the R&D be worth making them? I guess the people who are "price be damned" won't care, and will dish out cash for custom built blocks.
I'm betting we won't see many of these cards in build logs though, not at $3K. I wonder how long it will take nvidia to drop the price on these...
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I did say it was a friggin' joke. Now, read the sentence I typed right after that statement. Comprehension, used properly, would indicate that my following statement explains why it is a friggin' joke: the $3000 price for their product that can't even slightly outperform the coup d'etat flagship from the competition which carries a price of about half. It comes down solely to the price point that nVidia is choosing to market this part at, given the performance it offers.
Let me re-word it:
Because of it's asinine price tag which happens to be around double that of the best performing part of the competition for less to no performance gain of said competitor's part, the Titan Z is an undisputable fucking joke.
Unknown-One
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Not sure what you're talking about. Nothing has been shifted.
I said it nicer the first time, but the sentiment was identical. Deja said the Titan Z was a joke, end of statement. I disagreed with the Titan Z being a joke, and instead said its asking price was price that was the problem.
Who said I was thrilled? There's nothing wrong with it, of course, but I'm not going on some rant about how it "pwns all" or anything...
So why are we still talking, unless you disagree with there being nothing else wrong aside from the price?
Once again, saying "X product is a joke. X Product's price sucks." is different from saying "X product is fine, but the price is a joke."
Which is what I've been pointing out since the post that started all of this, so no, nothing has been re-targeted. You're just missing the key distinction I was pointing out in the first place (or you think the above two statements are equivalent, when they're clearly not)
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^ those aren't my comments that you quoted.
Unknown-One
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Sorry about that, fixed. Dunno how your post ID got into the quote blocks.
PvP-ForLife
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No surprises here, almost all new hardware is junk from a performance/price ratio.
Unknown-One
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I'm honestly surprised we haven't already seen a custom OEM design using two GK110 GPUs.Maybe we'll see a MARS GTX 780 Ti x2
A dual GTX 780 would go down well with a lot of people, especially if they can get it back down to 2 slots.
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Especially ITX users, my issue is the power requirements. Currently I am on a 450w SFX psu, If Silverstone comes through and produces a 600w Sfx we are getting to the point where this kind of gpu would be applicable. Having duel gpu's in my M1 just sounds awesome.
Unknown-One
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A Core i5 4590S (65w) + Titan Z (at default limits) is already pushing 440w. Only 10w remaining for Mobo + RAM + SSD.Especially ITX users, my issue is the power requirements. Currently I am on a 450w SFX psu, If Silverstone comes through and produces a 600w Sfx we are getting to the point where this kind of gpu would be applicable. Having duel gpu's in my M1 just sounds awesome.
That said, you can always go into EVGA Precision and tell it to limit the Titan Z to a specific TDP. Scale it back by 10w and you'd give yourself a 20w envelope for Mobo + RAM + SSD. That's do-able.
I guess what I'm saying is, dual-GPU is do-able at 450w, but you'd be cutting it VERY close.
Edit: Also, can't the M1 take a full ATX PSU? And a shorter one still allows full-length graphics cards. Might be a better option.
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Deacon_Jones1988
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Is $3000 the price on this thing? or was that just speculation?
The MSRP is $3000, but anyone who has one that's selling it is trying to gouge for more, in some cases up to 50% more, which is truly ridiculous.
I'm content to wait until the supply and prices come back down to MSRP...
Yakk
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Maybe we'll see a MARS GTX 780 Ti x2
$10,000 seems reasonable for one of those limited editions.
The MSRP is $3000, but anyone who has one that's selling it is trying to gouge for more, in some cases up to 50% more, which is truly ridiculous.
I'm content to wait until the supply and prices come back down to MSRP...
Amazon and Best Buy have them for MSRP.
I just realized this GPU costs more than I've spent on high-end cards over the past 5 years, and I've had the GTX280. 5870, 6970, 7970, GTX780, and R290X. Pretty crazy...
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If I was rich and wanted some NVIDIA swag for a build I'd put it in a build. I know people can afford these cards but realistically I don't think this card is a good value.
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At $1,500, this is an awesome card. It's a bit slower than the 295x2, a bit noisier, and takes up more slots, but it has awesome dual-precision FP performance for CUDA and GPGPU tasks, which helps make up for the negatives. Overall, this is an awesome card that holds it's own against the equally priced competition by having more features to make up for its performance gap. It provides an excellent alternative to the expensive Tesla cards in Nvidia's lineup, it doesn't have the software or warranty support, but it has video outputs and a much cheaper price-tag.
Wait, what... This card is twice that price!?
Wait, what... This card is twice that price!?
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At $1,500, this is an awesome card. It's a bit slower than the 295x2, a bit noisier, and takes up more slots, but it has awesome dual-precision FP performance for CUDA and GPGPU tasks, which helps make up for the negatives. Overall, this is an awesome card that holds it's own against the equally priced competition by having more features to make up for its performance gap. It provides an excellent alternative to the expensive Tesla cards in Nvidia's lineup, it doesn't have the software or warranty support, but it has video outputs and a much cheaper price-tag.
Wait, what... This card is twice that price!?
Anyone who uses this card for FP performance (with non ECC ram) or Cuda and GPGPU task would be fucking stupid.
They could spend $3000 on 3 titan blacks and have more FP performance, and more cuda cores for GPGPU tasks.
There is no way to spin this card as a great Cuda card or FP performance since its very overpriced compared to Titan blacks.
Also Nvidia is saying this card is great for gaming. Look at the product page on Evga MSI and Asus. They specifically say that Titan Z is the next best card for 4k gaming. No mention of FP performance or great for people who need the cuda cards.
This card is $1500 too much
Well put summary on the Titan Z situation.
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http://www.evga.com/Products/Product.aspx?pn=12G-P4-3990-KR
"GeForce GTX TITAN Z is a gaming monster, built to power the most extreme gaming rigs on the planet. With a massive 5760 cores, 12 GB of 7 Gbps GDDR5 memory, and the most advanced power delivery system, GTX TITAN Z offers truly insane performance. It's easily the fastest graphics card we've ever made.
GTX TITAN Z is designed with the highest-grade components to deliver the best experience - incredible speed and cool, quiet performance-all in a stunningly crafted aluminum case.
The groundbreaking dual-GPU GTX TITAN Z uses new dynamic power balancing technology that ensures peak performance across two GPUs with optimal power delivery. This means you can game on multi-monitor displays and hyper PCs at high setting and super-fast frame rates. With support for NVIDIA SLI, you can even add a second card and immerse yourself in graphically intense games like Watch Dogs in full 4K Surround."
http://www.asus.com/us/Graphics_Cards/GTXTITANZ12GD5/
"Two massive GPUs with a combined of 5760 cores and 12GB memory for groundbreaking gaming performance.
GPU Tweak:Modify clock speeds, voltages, fan performance and more, all via an intuitive interface.
GPU Tweak Streaming:Share on-screen action in real time so others can watch live as games are played.
Dynamic clock speed maximization based on game workload pushes performance to new levels withNVIDIA GPU Boost 2.0 technology."
I see numerous mentions of being a fast gaming video card. I see 0 mention of Cuda FP or GPGPU for the Titan Z.
Pretty obvious this is a gaming card....
"GeForce GTX TITAN Z is a gaming monster, built to power the most extreme gaming rigs on the planet. With a massive 5760 cores, 12 GB of 7 Gbps GDDR5 memory, and the most advanced power delivery system, GTX TITAN Z offers truly insane performance. It's easily the fastest graphics card we've ever made.
GTX TITAN Z is designed with the highest-grade components to deliver the best experience - incredible speed and cool, quiet performance-all in a stunningly crafted aluminum case.
The groundbreaking dual-GPU GTX TITAN Z uses new dynamic power balancing technology that ensures peak performance across two GPUs with optimal power delivery. This means you can game on multi-monitor displays and hyper PCs at high setting and super-fast frame rates. With support for NVIDIA SLI, you can even add a second card and immerse yourself in graphically intense games like Watch Dogs in full 4K Surround."
http://www.asus.com/us/Graphics_Cards/GTXTITANZ12GD5/
"Two massive GPUs with a combined of 5760 cores and 12GB memory for groundbreaking gaming performance.
GPU Tweak:Modify clock speeds, voltages, fan performance and more, all via an intuitive interface.
GPU Tweak Streaming:Share on-screen action in real time so others can watch live as games are played.
Dynamic clock speed maximization based on game workload pushes performance to new levels withNVIDIA GPU Boost 2.0 technology."
I see numerous mentions of being a fast gaming video card. I see 0 mention of Cuda FP or GPGPU for the Titan Z.
Pretty obvious this is a gaming card....
Dayaks
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I am still a huge fan of single GPU solutions. If you factor in how far you can OC a single card vs SLi or Xfire. Give SLi or Xfire a penalty for micro-stutter... It's pretty damn close. Maybe tri or quad SLi makes sense if money is no object.
Personally I am saving a stash of cash for the 880ti
Personally I am saving a stash of cash for the 880ti