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Time for an upgrade

N

ndunnett

n00b
Joined
Jul 20, 2012
Messages
19
Hi all, been looking around for a while but my PC is starting to get impatient, and likes to stutter and occasionally BSOD.

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming?
Primarily gaming (iRacing).

2) What's your budget?
$500 or less if I can, I'm strapped already and I want to buy other shit too before too long.

3) Which country do you live in?
Australia.

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget?
- CPU, I've already decided on an i5 3450
- Cooler, already gonna go for a CM Hyper Evo in push/pull
- 3x 120mm case fans (going to get CM silent LEDs)
- Motherboard
- At least 8GB RAM

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing?
- Thermaltake Soprano mid tower
- 550w PSU my Dad got with a case, sorry I don't know the details but it has been reliable for me and a PSU is an expense I don't need
- Leadtek GTX 550ti 2GB
- 2x LG DVD drives
- WD 320GB SATAII drive

6) Will you be overclocking?
As much as I can with the CPU chosen (3450), overclocking isn't important at this stage because at stock clocks it will be enough and I don't want to be dealing with BSODs in 2 years time.

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor?
1440 x 900, ASUS VK1935

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
In the next month or two, no real rush but I want to be organised to do it as soon as I have enough spare cash.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard?
- Ivy bridge
- 2200+ RAM (I'm flexible on this but 2x4GB 2133 is only $10 more than 1600)
- Able to set up an SSD cache drive
- PCIE 3

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license?
Windows 7 Home Premium 32 or 64 bit

I will be buying from www.pccasegear.com so if possible choose parts and use prices from there. In future I want to get a better PSU, a better GPU (HD 7850 or equal), set up a 1TB HDD with 60GB SSD cache, and upgrade to 3x23 inch monitors, so I really want my new gear to be up to scratch for that.

Thanks everyone. :)
 
I'm sorry but we need to know what PSU you have. Just because it's been working fine up to this point does not mean it'll be suitable for a new upgrade. So please find out what PSU you have.
 
I thought that would be the case. I'll shut down and open up the case to have a look. Anything specific to look for?
 
ndunnett said:
I thought that would be the case. I'll shut down and open up the case to have a look. Anything specific to look for?
Click to expand...

The PSU label on the side will should show the model number of the PSU. If possible a photo of the PSU label would be good to see.
 
img0390qg.jpg
 
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What have you got now? CPU I mean?
A serious GPU upgrade may be all the "fix" you need, 1440x900 is not demanding ultimate performance.
So, what games do you play, at what settings? GTX550Ti is not a high performance card, I think.
A GTX560Ti or 448 or better, an HD6850 even?
 
I have a G6950 at the moment but it is on it's last legs. I pretty much exclusively play iRacing on almost full settings, I do realise my card is low performance, it's not a very demanding game it's actually more CPU intensive. I do want a better card in future and I also want to go triple screens eventually, but budget won't allow for now.

edit: to clarify, I am content with the performance I'm getting at the moment but my CPU is dieing and has crashed out a few times. I can't just replace the CPU because the motherboard chipset is out of date (1156) so I'm up for at the very least a motherboard and a processor. I'm also down to only 2GB of 1333 so I want to replace that too.
 
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Sensible, but..
The power supply is more than 10, possibly 15 years old in design, motherboards have not required 50A 5V since Socket A processors.In effect your power supply (when new) produced a maximum of 216 watts 12V. And likely that is max. not continuous rating.

You may have serious power supply problems. This appears an old design, if sold in the not too distant past it is likely assembled using cheap components, uses a cheap fan that could easily be dying, is inefficient (60%?) which means it runs hot. Heat is an enemy of the life of capacitors and other electronic components in a power supply.

The first upgrade to make is a new power supply.

The Antec VP450 at $52 or a Corsair CX430 or CX500 are your best low price choices.
 
That PSU is ancient. It's less than 15 though, but I could call it a 10yo design. That would have been a pretty massive PSU around 2002 or so if it actually lives up to the specs on the sticker. It's basically set up for a dual Pentium III or something like that. The last board I had that used a significant amount of 5V was a dual Athlon board. One CPU ran of 5V, the other off 12V. Obviously both had VRMs converting the input voltage. CPUs haven't run on 5V directly since around the time of the original 60 and 66MHz Pentiums IIRC.

I'd swap the PSU first, then see how the rest of the system does. A bad PSU can cause all kinds of problems.
 
Woah! The PSU is only about 5 years old, I guess you get what my Dad probably paid for. I will definitely be getting a new one then, and I've had a quick look around, does this one look good to you guys? I like the idea of having it modular and I had a look at some higher end cards I'd consider getting when I have more money, most of them are recommending at least 500-550W.

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15_535&products_id=12597
 
Your dad may have bought it 5 years ago but more than likely it was sitting around for 5 years before that.

I wouldn't go with that OCZ PSU due to OCZ's customer support issues. For that price range, I recommend this Antec PSU:
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=16290

If you want modular, it will cost you more money:
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=15957

Motherboard wise, if you want a good chance of overclocking, I recommend this Asus Z77:
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=20036

If you don't mind limited overclocking and need to save money, I recommend this Gigabyte Z77:
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=19920

Make sure that whatever DDR3 RAM you get is rated at 1.5V or lower. Any higher and you risk damage to the CPU. Speed wise, doesn't matter. You'll be fine with DDR3 1333 or DDR3 1600, whichever one is the better value/cheapest.
 
After doing some more reading, I've discovered that the B75M chipset has everything that I need, the only concerning downfall is overclocking limitations but I'm not too worried about overclocking. I've also decided that considering some higher end GPUs demand 550W I want at least 600W for a little head room.

So first I will get:
- Antec VP650P - $85
- CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO - $36
- 3x CoolerMaster 120mm Silent Blue LED Fan - $45
$26 postage, $192 total

Then later:
- Intel Core i5 3450 - $195
- G.Skill Sniper F3-14900CL9D-8GBSR 8GB (2x4GB) - $65 (only $6 more than cheapest 1600mhz, so why not)
- ASUS P8B75-M-LX Motherboard - $75
$25 postage, $360 total

So that's $552 after delivery... OR I could get it all at once for $534 after delivery.

Then much later:
- 60GB SSD - $60-80
- 1TB HDD - $90-100
- HD 7850 - $250
- 3x23 inch LED monitors - $450-500
- Probably a new case - $50-75

Any obvious flaws to my plan? :)
 
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Considering how old that PSU was, what case do you have? Does it have a placement for a side 120mm fan?

Also, GPU manfacturers deliberately overstate the power needs of their GPUs to cover their asses due to the sheer number crappy PSUs out there (like the one you have). In other words, when they say the video card requires a 650W PSU, they're assuming that you have a shitty 650W PSU that can hopefully provide the real 450W amount needed for that GPU. As such, very few current GPUs actually require a 550W to 600W PSU. In your case, you would fine with a solid 500W PSU for years with the HD 7850.

I'd rather have the higher quality Antec Neo Eco 520C over that budget Antec PSU.

RAM wise, save your $6 as you would have to essentially "overclock" to get that RAM speed so high.

Motherboard wise, the mobo you chose only has 2 DIMM slots. As such, you're basically limited to 8GB of RAM max with that current RAM set.

SSD wise, generally if you want a good bang for the buck SSD, you'll see a much better value around the 120GB to 128GB size range.
 
It is a Thermaltake Soprano, it is pretty old but I don't think it is the case which the PSU came with, it has an 80mm spot on the side, then 120mm front/rear.

Okay, makes sense, I'll go with that one.

Also makes sense, but for only $6 I may as well get it, even if it runs slightly under what it's rated.

I don't mind as I won't need any more than 8GB of RAM for quite a while, by the time I do I'll probably be up for an upgrade anyway.

I agree, but I'm pretty sure you can only use up to 64GB as a cache disk. The other option is to get a 120GB disk an install OS + games on it, I'll deal with that when the time comes.

Thanks for all the help, much appreciated. :)
 
ndunnett said:
It is a Thermaltake Soprano, it is pretty old but I don't think it is the case which the PSU came with, it has an 80mm spot on the side, then 120mm front/rear.
Click to expand...
Do you have an 80mm fan available?

ndunnett said:
I agree, but I'm pretty sure you can only use up to 64GB as a cache disk. The other option is to get a 120GB disk an install OS + games on it, I'll deal with that when the time comes.
Click to expand...

I'd go with the install OS + games on it. The cache route isn't all that good.
 
It does have all fans in, but the 120mm ones are getting pretty noisy and I wouldn't be surprised if they stopped turning tomorrow.

What are the cons to the cache route? I'm still on the fence about it, I've got a while to decide lol.
 
ndunnett said:
It does have all fans in, but the 120mm ones are getting pretty noisy and I wouldn't be surprised if they stopped turning tomorrow.
Click to expand...
I see why you bought new fans.
ndunnett said:
What are the cons to the cache route? I'm still on the fence about it, I've got a while to decide lol.
Click to expand...

The OS install + games route offers more general performance increase. The cache route really only benefits you if you do the exact same thing over and over again. So with every new usage, you're basically getting lower performance than you would with the regular SSD route.
 
Yeah I realise that but when you think about it after a few boot ups and days of routine task, you would be getting the same performance as an install plus a boost to anything you open regularly on the HDD. Anyway, I'll decide on that later, there are a few other things that need money first.
 
ndunnett said:
I have a G6950 at the moment but it is on it's last legs. I pretty much exclusively play iRacing on almost full settings, I do realise my card is low performance, it's not a very demanding game it's actually more CPU intensive. I do want a better card in future and I also want to go triple screens eventually, but budget won't allow for now.

edit: to clarify, I am content with the performance I'm getting at the moment but my CPU is dieing and has crashed out a few times. I can't just replace the CPU because the motherboard chipset is out of date (1156) so I'm up for at the very least a motherboard and a processor. I'm also down to only 2GB of 1333 so I want to replace that too.
Click to expand...

Guess what? Your current PSU is the one that's killing your system's CPU (the "early death caused by poor DC output quality" syndrome). And you were very lucky that the G6950 system lasted as long as it did because that entire build drew less than 250W total at maximum load. And I did some more research about Codegen PSUs, and it appears that they are Leadman/Powmax/Diablotek PSUs - the very ones that have been known to die out or explode when pushed to more than half their labeled wattages.
 
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Just a quick update, I've changed my mind a little on the upgrade mostly due to a slightly larger budget. I'm still waiting on that PSU to turn up, according to PCCG they are still awaiting payment but I suspect they've lost my money, so I've sent them receipts with the question mark on why it's taken so long.

But, when I get my tax return I'll be putting in an order for:
- CoolerMaster K350 Gamer USB 3.0 - $59
- 3 x CoolerMaster 120mm Silent Red LED Fan - $45
- Intel Core i5 3570K - $239
- ASRock Z77 Extreme4 Motherboard - $155
- Antec KUHLER H2O 620 CPU Cooler - $79
- G.Skill Ripjaws X F3-17000CL11D-8GBXL (2x4GB) DDR3 - $69
- OCZ Agility 3 120GB SSD - $99

Total = $745 + $58 postage

I'll then use the Antec PSU which is on it's way, my old 320GB HDD for storage, and my old optical drives. When I go for my next upgrade it will be a 1TB HDD, a decent GPU and 3 monitors. Any objections? (other than memory which I realise is overkill)
 
What Case? Cuz most cases have enough fans for cooling and purchasing extras is a waste of $. OCZ agility is unreliable. Get the Crucial M4.
 
ndunnett said:
- CoolerMaster K350 Gamer USB 3.0 - $59
- 3 x CoolerMaster 120mm Silent Red LED Fan - $45
Click to expand...
Not a good choice for the money. For not much more than the case + fans, you get the better quality, easier to cable manage, and roomier Corsair 400R case:
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=18306

If you need to cut costs, I recommend this budget case instead:
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=17988

ndunnett said:
- ASRock Z77 Extreme4 Motherboard - $155
Click to expand...
I don't trust AsRock's Z77 mobos just yet. If it was me, I'd go with this Antec Z77 mobo:
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=20036

ndunnett said:
- G.Skill Ripjaws X F3-17000CL11D-8GBXL (2x4GB) DDR3 - $69
Click to expand...
Overpriced and completely unnecessary as Intel platforms do not benefit from higher speed RAM. You'll be fine with this RAM:
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=186_912&products_id=16510

ndunnett said:
- OCZ Agility 3 120GB SSD - $99
Click to expand...
Not a good quality SSD at all. I recommend the Crucial M4, Samsung 830, Plextor m3, Intel 520, or Corsair Performance Pro series SSDs.
 
Danny Bui said:
Not a good choice for the money. For not much more than the case + fans, you get the better quality, easier to cable manage, and roomier Corsair 400R case:
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=18306

If you need to cut costs, I recommend this budget case instead:
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=17988
Click to expand...

The thing is I want 2 fans for the radiator, at least 2 intakes and 2 exhausts. If I mounted the Antec 620 to one of the intakes and used the fan that comes with it that means I'd need 4 other fans minus whatever the case comes with. After thinking about that though I realise that CM case doesn't have a top fan which means I'd be limited to either 1 exhaust or shitty flow. That Corsair case looks good, but by the time I kit it out with fans it will be too expensive to justify. The NZXT case looks nice too but it looks too restrictive for airflow. It gets very hot and humid over here during summer, I don't want to take any chances with poor airflow.

How about this case plus 3 fans:
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=25_547&products_id=19881

Danny Bui said:
I don't trust AsRock's Z77 mobos just yet. If it was me, I'd go with this Antec Z77 mobo:
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=20036
Click to expand...

Why is that? I've seen hundreds of positive reviews for the Extreme4, and I think I prefer the features of the ASRock board over the ASUS. For example, 8 + 2 + 2 vs 4 + 1 + 1 power phase, 2 extra SATA3 sockets, higher quality audio codec, the AXTU looks pretty good too. It's also $10 cheaper, so I think I'll stick with the Extreme4.

Danny Bui said:
Overpriced and completely unnecessary as Intel platforms do not benefit from higher speed RAM. You'll be fine with this RAM:
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=186_912&products_id=16510
Click to expand...

I must have missed that RAM last time I checked, I didn't think they had any 1600 8GB kits that cheap. I'll grab that instead.

Danny Bui said:
Not a good quality SSD at all. I recommend the Crucial M4, Samsung 830, Plextor m3, Intel 520, or Corsair Performance Pro series SSDs.
Click to expand...

I don't want to spend any more than $125 on an SSD, if I can't get a reliable 120GB drive for that money I'll just wait until technology advances a bit. Which out of these drives would you recommend? I'm steering towards the Intel 330.

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=210_902_909&products_id=20049
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=210_902_909&products_id=17369
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=210_902_909&products_id=20429
 
ndunnett said:
Why is that? I've seen hundreds of positive reviews for the Extreme4, and I think I prefer the features of the ASRock board over the ASUS. For example, 8 + 2 + 2 vs 4 + 1 + 1 power phase, 2 extra SATA3 sockets, higher quality audio codec, the AXTU looks pretty good too. It's also $10 cheaper, so I think I'll stick with the Extreme4.
Click to expand...

ASRock's quality control has been hit-or-miss. Even the quality control across different samples of the same model mobo has been erratic. And that's not to mention that the board's Z68 predecessor has fared relatively poorly in testing at the [H].

I don't want to spend any more than $125 on an SSD, if I can't get a reliable 120GB drive for that money I'll just wait until technology advances a bit. Which out of these drives would you recommend? I'm steering towards the Intel 330.

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=210_902_909&products_id=20049
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=210_902_909&products_id=17369
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=210_902_909&products_id=20429
Click to expand...

The Samsung 830 (the bottom link). The Intel 330 is significantly slower than the Samsung 830 while the Corsair Force 3 is basically the same SSD as the OCZ Agility 3 (which combines the worst of both worlds: the Sandforce controller with asynchronous flash chips that are even slower than the already crippled Intel 330).
 
And yet there are some [H] people who have Asrock boards that never had any problems (like myself). My Asrock Extreme 4 P67 board has been working fine for over a year.

I just built a system for a friend based on the Asrock Z77 Pro4 and it's working fine. It was an easy 4.4Ghz on the 3570k with a $20 heatsink.
 
J Macker said:
And yet there are some [H] people who have Asrock boards that never had any problems (like myself). My Asrock Extreme 4 P67 board has been working fine for over a year.

I just built a system for a friend based on the Asrock Z77 Pro4 and it's working fine. It was an easy 4.4Ghz on the 3570k with a $20 heatsink.
Click to expand...

Good for you. However, the sticking point for me is a HardOCP review. Simply put, if I see that HardOCP shows one or more of the AsRock Z77 mobos being good, I'll start recommending AsRock Z77 mobos. Until then I won't due to the reasons that E4g1e mentioned.
 
E4g1e said:
ASRock's quality control has been hit-or-miss. Even the quality control across different samples of the same model mobo has been erratic. And that's not to mention that the board's Z68 predecessor has fared relatively poorly in testing at the [H].
Click to expand...

I have seen very little evidence supporting this compared to how many people I've seen writing about how happy they are with their board. I think I'll go with ASRock, if I get a bodge board I'll send it back as it comes with a 3 year warranty.

Okay thanks guys, I'll go with the Samsung.
 
Yeah, it's only this forums that doesn't like it. Every other forums has no such research result. Lots of forums research motherboards, and none of them have any problems with ASRock. IMO, basing it on one website's experiences is a premature way to say a board isn't worth it.
 
azeem40 said:
Yeah, it's only this forums that doesn't like it. Every other forums has no such research result. Lots of forums research motherboards, and none of them have any problems with ASRock. IMO, basing it on one website's experiences is a premature way to say a board isn't worth it.
Click to expand...

Actually, the [H] uses tougher criteria than most of those other sites. Many of those other sites often do not keep a part long enough or test a part thoroughly enough to develop any weaknesses.
 
I'm more convinced by the hundreds of build success stories I've read on all sorts of different forums than a few critic reviews. I think I will get much, much better value out of the specs of this board than the others available and all the people saying that they have one in their PC working fine vs. how many people say the board they received was junk is enough of a reliability confirmation for me. I will go for the ASRock and if I get bit in the ass I will come here and admit I made a mistake.

Well, that looks like my build locked in, I'm not 100% on the case but at this point it looks like the best option for what I want.

- Thermaltake Black Commander MS-III Mid Tower Case - $59
- Antec KUHLER H2O 620 CPU Cooler - $79
- 3 x CoolerMaster 120mm Silent Red LED Fan - $45
- Intel Core i5 3570K - $239
- ASRock Z77 Extreme4 Motherboard - $155
- G.Skill Ripjaws X F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL (2x4GB) - $55
- Samsung 830 Series 128GB SSD - $125

$757 + $55 postage
 
ndunnett said:
Well, that looks like my build locked in, I'm not 100% on the case but at this point it looks like my best option for what I want.
- Thermaltake Black Commander MS-III Mid Tower Case - $59
- 3 x CoolerMaster 120mm Silent Red LED Fan - $45
Click to expand...
That case is not a good choice at all since it only comes with a single 120mm fan. That makes it a poor value compared to the better cable management having and two fan having NZXT Source 210 Elite case (one 120mm fan and one 140mm fan) or the Coolermaster HAF 912 (not the advance version) or the Antec 100 case or the CoolerMaster Centurion 5 II.

In any case, you don't need that many fans. It's been shown that 3 fans is really all you need for the system: One rear exhaust, one top exhaust, and one intake fan on the side for optimal cooling. The 4th fan for the front intake doesn't do much.
 
E4g1e said:
Actually, the [H] uses tougher criteria than most of those other sites. Many of those other sites often do not keep a part long enough or test a part thoroughly enough to develop any weaknesses.
Click to expand...

Well, that is probably true, but then why do most still recommend the board? Is the board's critique released to the public?
 
Hi guys, first time I've been back here since this thread, thought I'd give an update. I wound up ordering this:

- Intel i5 3570k
It's been brilliant, no reviewing necessary here

- ASRock Z77 Extreme4
Also been brilliant, zero issues and easily OC'd the CPU to 4.5 stable although it ran a little hotter than I'd like so it's sitting at 4.4

- Samsung 830 series 128GB SSD
Been brilliant, very fast and plenty big enough, probably would have gotten away with a 60GB drive

- Antec Kuhler 620
At first I was very impressed, but as we are heading into summer it does not deal with high ambient temps all that well, still great value though IMO it does well for what it is

- Corsair Vengeance CL9 PC3-12800 2x4GB
Been brilliant, plenty fast and big enough for my use, no hiccups or anything

- Silverstone Strider Plus 600W
Works flawlessly, looks good and keeps my case uncluttered as it is a modular unit, runs very quietly too

I think you can all see a pattern, as a whole I'm very happy with the ~$800 I spent, I think I made all the right decisions although I am going to replace the Antec cooler with a proper water loop.
 
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