Time crunch, requesting wiser mind's input

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ubooze

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Mar 6, 2007
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So after my last theoretical build didn't go through, I have once again found myself in desperate need of a decent rig and soon.

I am looking to spend not more then $3200 grand total in the end. The main purpose right now for the system is helping me finish my Solidworks project. But this thing will serve as my gaming rig and digital media station. I am basically trying to replace an old PC and be somewhat future proof.

I have divided the components in items that I would rather not change and items that I am open to suggestions. Mind you this system is going to be gradually upgraded rather then splurging on everything right away.

I am somewhat confident that this set-up will serve me well, I would like to make sure everything will go together smoothly and actually run. None of these items are in any particular order.


Things I'm Unsure about/ Need Confirmation:

EVGA 01G-P3-N809-AR GeForce 8800GT AKIMBO 1GB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail $284.99
- From what I gather, the 8800GT is pretty solid.
- Went with the EVGA because it looks like it gets positive reviews.
- Wanted something with a bit extra oomph right now to hold me off for a bit.
- Eventually intend to get second identical card.

EVGA 132-CK-NF79-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 790i Ultra SLI DDR3 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $349.99
- Reviews say 790i Ultra has potential.
- Looks to make overclocking a bit more accessible.
- Has both DDR3 and SLI support.
- Has enough connections to hold me off.

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9300 Yorkfield 2.5GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80580Q9300 - Retail $299.99
- Its pretty cheap.
- Will be OC'ed at some point.
- Want to wait till the heavy hitters become more affordable.
- Quad-core is a big plus.

Patriot Extreme Performance 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model PDC34G1333ELK - Retail $274.99
- Cheap way to get into DDR3 right now.
- RAM will be addressed in the future.

PC Power & Cooling S610EPS EPS12V 610W Continuous @ 40°C Power Supply - Retail
$119.99
- This is the item I am most unsure about.
- Seems to be a solid unit. Well regarded brand.
- Is it overkill? Will it suffice?
- Will I need to swap it out for when I go SLI?
- I could go for something cheaper right now as long as its dependable and it'll handle everything but SLI set-up.

2x SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S203N - OEM
$69.98 ($34.99 each)
- I want two drives. Good reviews.

2x Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
$189.98 ($94.99 each)
- Good reviews.
- I have external drives for additional memory.
- May get two Raptors in the future.

Microsoft Windows XP Professional With SP2C - OEM
- Will it play nice?
- XP Pro handles up to 4GB of RAM I believe.


Things I am set on keeping:

LIAN LI PC-V2000Bplus II Black Aluminum Server Computer Case - Retail
$299.99
- Its big and open and will handle just about anything that will be in the future for this system.
- Looks good.
- I like it. I want a nice case that doesn't look ridiculous and won't need upgrading.

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite Pro 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card (Black/Silver) (Eng) - Retail
$254.99
- This stays.

Noctua CPU cooler / Model doesn't come to mind/ This big one
- Good reviews.
- Don't want this rig getting too noisy.
- Will it fit?
- Might be going with Noctua for the whole system int he future.

Dell 2408WPF
- Decently priced compared to the 27” I was originally thinking about getting.
- Lots of nice features.
- May get a second one in the future.


So thats basically it. If anyone would be cool enough and see if everything jives, that would be awesome. Please keep in mind that this system will be OC'ed with time and upgraded once prices and money becomes more accessible. I am toying with the idea of watercooling at some time.

I hope to order everything by this Sunday and have it built up by the end of next week.

Thanks a bunch.
 
Sorry, I don't have the capacity at this hour to read all that. However, I will point out that the performance benefit by going with DDR3 over DDR2 is minimal and not worth the price premium of both a DDR3 motherboard nor DDR3 RAM itself.

If you can survive with a single vidcard, do so (9800GX2). There will be less headaches from a single vidcard solution than with going for an SLI setup. However, SLI becomes beneficial at your resolution, so you can't go wrong either way. Just be prepared to troubleshoot if you plan on OC'ing along with using SLI on an nForce board.

You consider that RAM cheap? I just picked up 4GB of DDR2-800 that can reach DDR2-1000 for $55 after a $20 MIR. As I pointed out above, DDR3 isn't worth it. By the time Intel chips can take advantage of DDR3, you'll need a new board with support for Nehalem, which has an on-chip memory controller (scheduled to be released by the end of the year, btw).

I'll leave the rest for others. ;)
 
^^yeah I haven't been paying attention to ddr3 stuff, but from what I read 790i offers pretty marginal performance gains.

for 3200 you need some SLI and more storage in there.

psu:is that modular? I'd probably get a bigger one just because, but I'd bet that unit can handle it.
hds: only two?
OS: not touching this one
case:that thing is gigantic. certainly THE case to do liquid in

sound: I'm not a creative hater, but seriously. 250$ for a sound card??!! for that much, get yourself something professional

fake edit: is there a particular reason you NEED ddr3/790, other than smoking most of your budget? theres no reason you can't have an obscenely fast rig for much less $$$ (or put more money into other components.)
 
XP Pro handles up to 4GB of RAM I believe.
Click to expand...
XP Pro cannot handle 4GB of RAM unless it's the 64bit version. So make sure that you get the 64bit version of the OS if you want to use all 4GB of RAM. In addition, mkae sure that there are drivers available for the 64bit version of XP Pro. Windows XP Pro 64bit isn't as well supported driver and apps wise compared to Vista 64bit.

As for PSU, I recommend getting this PSU instead since it's rated at a higher temperature and it offers more power at said higher temperature yet is the same price:
Corsair 650TX 650W PSU - $120

Just an FYI, the Q9300 is only 7% faster than the Q6600 at stock speeds and a MSRP of $266. It will be harder to OC since it has a 7x multiplier whereas the Q6600 has a 9x multiplier. However, the Q9300 does use less power than the Q6600.

And lastly, don't get the 1GB VRAM version of the 8800GT. The 8800GT simply isn't fast enough to take advantage of that much RAM. Just get the 8800GTS 512MB or 8800GTX if you're gonna spend that much money on a video card:
MSI NX8800GTS 8800GTS 512MB PCI-E Video Card - $230
eVGA 768-P2-N831-AR GeForce 8800GTX 768MB PCI-E Video Card - $340
 
Thanks fellas. So far you guys have showed me some ways to do this mess better.

So I'll try to further explain my logic. The reason why I'm aiming for DDR3 is that it eventually will be the standard, and if I'm building a new system I might as well try and adopt the new stuff now.

I was deliberating a while over what board to get was originally looking at some other ones, but eventually decided to take a gamble. If you guys were to suggest a board with a similar capabilities and pair it with some RAM, what combo would you go with instead of what i have?

That RAM is cheap relative to other 4GB kits listed on Newegg. What I didn't realize was how long it was going to be before DDR3 is really put to use.

790i Ultra seems to be the only nForce chipset even worth bothering with. From what i have been trying to read, all the others ones are a bit troublesome in some ways, while this one seems promising. Besides that, I would like to have the option of SLI in the future, but thats not that critical right now.

HDDs, two will be enough right now. That can be fixed if I can figure out what other mobo and memory combo will be better.

OS. I have XP right now. I feel comfortbale with it. I can't say I'm sold on Vista ATM.
Plus, from what I've heard, Vista does not play well with Solidworks, or at least the student version.

As much as I would like not to spend that much on a soundcard, the external box will make life so much easier. The only other card I would consider is the E-MU 1616, but thats even more money.

I'll see if the Corsair PSU is available when I order everything else. That fact that it wasn't in stock is bvasically why I didn't look at it.

Still not sure on the Q9300 vs Q6600.

Thanks again dudes.
 
That Dell 2408 lcd is nice and looks like a little brother to the Dell 2707 WFP model but, there's input lag on that LCD. Soo.. if you intend on gaming on this, I would look at another LCD. I would get the Planar Doublesight 26" LCD instead for $700. http://www.buy.com/prod/206689065.html However, since gaming is not your primary intention on this lcd, the 2408WFP will be fine. Just a suggestion.
 
Buy the Corsair PSUs at Buy.com. Buy.com offers free shipping on all Corsair brand power supplies, and they're available at lower prices than at NewEgg.

Onboard sound has progressed to the point that for most users, it would suffice. If you are unsure about getting a sound card at this time, try the onboard sound out first. It may be enough for your needs.

I can't say which SLI board is best, but right now, DDR3 RAM offers no performance improvement over DDR2 RAM. DDR3 probably won't be a viable option (compared to DDR2) until after Nehalem becomes a viable option in CPUs/chipsets.

In regards to overclocking, with the Q6600 you'll be CPU-limited, as most Q6600s max out around 3.6GHz under air cooling. With the Q9xxx series you'll be chipset-limited, as the northbridges on most motherboards have problems maintaining stable FSB speeds of over 400MHz without exotic (e.g., water or phase-change) cooling. Choose the Q6600 if you want an inexpensive quad-core, and the Q9300 if you want a more efficient running CPU.

For an SLI setup, you may want a little extra power. Though they aren't modular, the Corsair TX750 and the PC Power & Cooling 750 Quad are excellent choices.

I'm guessing here, but is this the Noctua CPU cooler you were considering? Other CPU coolers to consider are:

Scythe SCNJ-1100P Ninja HSF - $36
Xigmatek HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle HSF - $37
Tuniq Tower 120 HSF - $45
ZEROtherm Nirvana NV120 120mm HSF - $50
Thermalright Ultima-90 HSF - $46 & Panaflo FBA09A12M 92mm Fan - $3
Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme HSF - $57 & Scythe S-Flex SFF21E 120MM Case Fan - $14

(I'm not saying that your selection is bad... frankly, I've never heard of that CPU cooler until today.)
 
is that the only creative x-fi model with a breakout box? I paid 75$ for my A2 platinum EX w/ breakout box, back in the day and it is fantastic.

I still think you should back off the DDR3 train for now
tiraides said:
I can't say which SLI board is best, but right now, DDR3 RAM offers no performance improvement over DDR2 RAM. DDR3 probably won't be a viable option (compared to DDR2) until after Nehalem becomes a viable option in CPUs/chipsets.
Click to expand...

also, I just read that there is a "vista" version of solidworks. sucks that it requires a new version
 
Futurproofing a machine is not a good idea. Nehalem is a completely new socket so getting the 790i that uses DDR3 right now is not worth it at all.
 
Alright, I guess I'll forget DDR3.

But now I have a new problem. I can't figure out which mobo to go with. I don't mind if it doesn't support SLI right now I guess. At a quick powersearch on Newegg, I am looking at the ASUS Rampage Formula which seems to me I would be paying a whole lot for nothing really fantastic or the ASUS P5E Pro, but people seem to have some issues with that thing. Sometimes having many choices isn't the best thing. hah

I think I'll also go with the Q6600. Just makes more sense right now.

I'll get a Corsair PSU from Buy.com if they have it when I order. Since I'm not going for SLI, I think the smaller unit will work well. Thanks for the heads-up on that, really appreciate it.

And yes, that Noctua NH-U12F is the cooler I plan on getting.

I am going to have to read more about that Doublesight DS-265N. Looks like it may be a better choice.

Thank god [H]ardforum is around, without your input I would have wasted so much money.
 
ubooze said:
But now I have a new problem. I can't figure out which mobo to go with. I don't mind if it doesn't support SLI right now I guess.
Click to expand...

------------------------------------------
**Originally Posted by Danny Bui **
Abit IP35-E Intel P35 Motherboard - $90
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L Intel P35 Motherboard - $90
MSI P35 Neo2-FR Intel P35 Motherboard - $112
DFI BloodIron P35-T2RL Intel P35 Motherboard - $120
Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3R Intel P35 Motherboard - $122
DFI LanParty DK P35-T2RS Intel P35 Motherboard - $140
Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3P Intel P35 Motherboard - $151
Abit IP35 Pro Intel P35 Motherboard - $170
Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS4 Intel P35 Motherboard - $180

Just to help you out: If you don't need RAID, more than 4 SATA ports or legacy ports, then the IP35-E is a good choice. If you like the IP35-E but need legacy ports, check out the DS3L. If you need 5 SATA ports, 2 eSATA ports, and a second PCI-E x16 port, then get the Neo2-Fr. If you want heavy overclocking abilities and six SATA ports, check out the Blood Iron. If you like the BloodIron but want significantly better overclock stability, go for the LanParty. If you want 8 SATA ports, RAID, and legacy ports and high overclocks, than the DS3R is a good choice. If you want the DS3R but need Firewire and a second PCI-E x16 port, then go for the DS3P. If you want something that can overclock pretty damn high along with eSATA ports and firewire connections, than the IP35 Pro. Note that the IP35-Pro seems to have problems with the Wolfdales CPUs.*
------------------------------------------
*I'm pretty this problem has been taken care of with a bios update.

ubooze said:
Thank god [H]ardforum is around, without your input I would have wasted so much money.
Click to expand...

I found the [H] in Jan 2007 and it's been the only hardware site I regularly check since then :)
 
Agreed on all points.

P35 (not ASUS, please God...), DDR2, Q6600.

The 9800GX2 is an option, or the 8800 GTS 512MB / 9800 GTX. You might also consider a used 8800 GTX, as they can still be found easily enough second hand with warranties intact. The 8800 GT has poor stock cooling, and the EVGA Akimbo version you were originally looking at is vastly overpriced for what you're getting.
 
You can read up on the Doublesight on Hardforum. There is a Huge Thread on this LCD. It is very good for the price and size and it is not a TN panel therefore does not suffer from poor viewing angles and color shifting. I do hear people discussing about how the new Dell 2408WFP has lag input. Even the new 30" Dell 3008WFP suffers lag input.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1268063&highlight=doublesight


ubooze said:
I am going to have to read more about that Doublesight DS-265N. Looks like it may be a better choice.

Thank god [H]ardforum is around, without your input I would have wasted so much money.
Click to expand...
 
AndonSage said:
. Note that the IP35-Pro seems to have problems with the Wolfdales CPUs.*
------------------------------------------
*I'm pretty this problem has been taken care of with a bios update.
Click to expand...

Yeah the problem has been fixed. Line is removed.

Oh and here's a slightly updated link and list that AndonSage posted:
Abit IP35-E Intel P35 Motherboard - $90
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L Intel P35 Motherboard - $90
MSI P35 Neo2-FR Intel P35 Motherboard - $112
DFI BloodIron P35-T2RL Intel P35 Motherboard - $120
Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3R Intel P35 Motherboard - $125
DFI LanParty DK P35-T2RS Intel P35 Motherboard - $140
Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3P Intel P35 Motherboard - $144
Abit IP35 Pro Intel P35 Motherboard - $170
Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS4 Intel P35 Motherboard - $170

Just to help you out: If you don't need RAID, more than 4 SATA ports or legacy ports, then the IP35-E is a good choice. If you like the IP35-E but need legacy ports, check out the DS3L. If you need 5 SATA ports, 2 eSATA ports, and a second PCI-E x16 port, then get the Neo2-Fr. If you want heavy overclocking abilities and six SATA ports, check out the Blood Iron. If you like the BloodIron but want significantly better overclock stability, go for the LanParty. If you want 8 SATA ports, RAID, and legacy ports and high overclocks, than the DS3R is a good choice. If you want the DS3R but need Firewire and a second PCI-E x16 port, then go for the DS3P. If you want something that can overclock pretty damn high along with eSATA ports and firewire connections, than the IP35 Pro. If you like the DS3P but want better cooling for overclocking, then go for the DS4.
 
Thank you AndonSage, that was an awesome reply. Really easy to understand.

Danny Bui, thanks for the links.

So I guess I now know what to go with. I'm going to draft up a revised list and I'll throw it up here tomorrow when I have more time.

Thanks for all the info.
 
IP35-Pro with the Q6600 and NV120 HSF is working wonders for me right now. I've been very pleased with it so far.

Best of luck.
 
ubooze said:
Thank you AndonSage, that was an awesome reply. Really easy to understand.
Click to expand...

Thanks go to Danny Bui :) Guys like him and silent-circuit and HardwareGuru are what make the [H] forum so helpful.*

Danny, I've updated my copy/paste text, thanks :)

*I'm not intentionally leaving anyone out, those are just the first three I remembered
 
The Dell 2408WFP is a great monitor. It has lots of features that's more than the Doublesight 26" lcd. The only big downside is if you are concerned on input lag of any sort especially when it comes to playing high fps gaming, then the Dell 2408 falls a little short compared to the Doublesight 26" However, if high speed fps gaming is not much your preference or concern, then you should be ok. I think you will be happy with the Dell 2408WFP due to its features and versatility of that monitor. The advantage of the Doublesight is that it's 2" bigger, and it has lower input lag. However, it has less inputs and cannot adjust in height or rotate.
 
Lol, that G.Skill was the first kit I actually looked at but thought I would go with a brand I am more familiar with. Luckily my buddy has had good luck with G.Skill. I was a bit unsure about their stuff at first.
 
Frys currently has the Q6600 for $190 online, or so I've seen looking around here last couple of days.

I'd say go with a 9800 GTX or 8800 GTS 512MB (more likely the latter) over the 8800 GTX, as the 9800 is comparable and runs cooler, and pretty much same deal with the GTS 512MB...and a GTS 512MB should be a good bit less AR if you shop around some. I've seen them under $200 AR lately. Unless you're doing something that's going to require a great deal of texture memory (mostly Oblivion with those huge texture packs) the 8800 GTX is difficult to justify at current prices. If you're willing to buy used, though, you should be able to pick one up for $250 or less. Just get XFX, so that the warranty can be transferred to you.

That said, if you can get another $300 within budget, on the Doublesight (or any other 1920x1200+ display) the extra power from a 9800GX2 would not go to waste at all.

G.Skill (and A-Data for that matter -- they're the actual OEM for a great deal of the RAM on the market from other "manufacturers") is great RAM. No cause for concern there.

Also, how bad do you need that front panel breakout on the X-Fi? $200 bad? Cause I certainly don't... and a second hand original X-Fi Xtreme Music (original full height full hardware card) runs like $50-60 used. Soundcards don't generally wear out. ;) Exact same hardware.
 
copy and paste my sig on the left in your preferred buying retailers search window. it'll add up to about $3000. you said you dont need a case/monitor/soundcard. so take the extra $650, and buy another hard drive, more expensive cpu/mobo, dual gpu/vid/gfx card setup, nice set of headphones etc...

with that budget you could probably hit up the x38/48 boards, go ddr3, and grab one of the intel Q9xxx series chips. waste of money at the moment because of nehalem (maybe). better off waiting for a few months, or doing what i just said above before my 2nd to last sentence here.

i took about 5 months researching and asking many many questions on here. a lot of the guys replying to you helped me piece together my final build. take their advice if you decide not to take mine.
 
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