Tight budget build

[Mekanic01]

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Gaming (BF4 mainly). Some photo and video editing.
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
Would like to do it for $300 including tax/shipping
3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.

Green Bay, WI
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
CPU, RAM, Motherboard
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
Will list below
6) Will you be overclocking?
Not likely
7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
1920 x 1200 24"
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
In the next two months (hopefully)
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
None in particular,
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
No


Current build:
Samsung WriteMaster SH-S203N
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151154

ASUS P5Q Pro LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131299

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231145

Western Digital Caviar Blue WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136218

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037

BenQ G2400WD Black 24" 5ms, 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor 250 cd/m2 DC 4000:1(1000:1)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824014173

Radeon HD 7750
Memory Size 1024 MB
Memory Type GDDR5
Core Clock in MHz 800 MHz
Memory Clock in MHz 1125 MHz

Also a Corsair HX620W power supply and a 2tb secondary HDD for storage (SATA 3.0)


___________________________________________________________________


Current plan is to replace only the Motherboard, CPU, and RAM.

My ideas:
GIGABYTE GA-970A-D3P AM3+/AM3 AMD 970 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128627

AMD FX-6300 Vishera 3.5GHz (4.1GHz Turbo) Socket AM3+ 95W Six-Core Desktop Processor FD6300WMHKBOX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113286

Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2000 (PC3 16000) Desktop Memory Model 996990
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226189

I'm on a tight budget, and from what I can tell this should be sufficient. I will still need to buy a new OS (Windows), but that I can keep separate for now. It's the hardware I'm worried about. I'm not really concerned over the Intel/AMD thing, as I've used both and been happy with both. I don't need to overclock, though in the future I may dabble a little.

Thoughts?

 

[Dangman]

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
In the next two months (hopefully)

You're planning your build a bit too early. Our hardware recommendations tend to change monthly and sometimes even weekly. In other words, parts we recommend today may not be good buys in a month from now let alone two months from now. So can you narrow down that time frame any further? If you can't narrow down the timeframe, then please come back when you're 1-2 weeks away from buying the parts and ask for advice then. That way you'll get up-to-date advice.

With that said, I noticied one problem with your setup that would still be a problem no matter how long you wait:

Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2000 (PC3 16000) Desktop Memory Model 996990
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226189

With your tight budget, high-speed RAM is a luxury, not a necessity. In the case of Intel CPUs, high-speed RAM does pretty much nothing. In other words, with an Intel setup, you won't noti

 

[Mekanic01]

But the new setup is AMD, not Intel.

 

[Dangman]

But the new setup is AMD, not Intel.

I understand but I'm using Intel as an example that the higher speed RAM is more than likely going to be a useless purchase for you. That is, unless you have some articles showing that there is a noticeable performance increase with AMD FX CPUs and higher speed RAM in games?

 

[artimusbill]

Core i3 4130 $130.00
Cheap B81 motherboard $50.00
Basic 8gb memory kit $66.00 after discount

That should do as well, if not better in games. You may have enough room for a Core i5.

 

[defaultluser]

Core i3 4130 $130.00
Cheap B81 motherboard $50.00
Basic 8gb memory kit $66.00 after discount

That should do as well, if not better in games. You may have enough room for a Core i5.

EDIT: See my post below, this is not accurate.

The problem is, I have trouble recommending the Core i3 if Battlefield is going to be the primary focus of his gaming sessions. See here where hyperthreading interferes with performance in BF3, but 6 cores with hyperthreading disabled shows a significant performance increase over four.

http://chipreviews.com/main-feature...-limit-6-core-performance-in-battlefield-3/5/

Given those numbers I would recommend the Core i5 first, and the FX 6300 second. The FX 6300 should outperform the i3 in this game thanks to the 15% performance boost seen from those extra cores. The Core i3's performance is a little harder to predict, given it's reliance on hyperthreading.

But you can plainly see that with 50% more cores the performance only increased 15%, so four fast cores are desirable over the 6-core FX 6300 any day!. If I were you OP I'd spend the cash on this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116895

Spending just a little more on an Intel quad core can save you upgrades further down the road.

 

[defaultluser]

Core i3 4130 $130.00
Cheap B81 motherboard $50.00
Basic 8gb memory kit $66.00 after discount

That should do as well, if not better in games. You may have enough room for a Core i5.

I just changed my recommendation now that I've finally tracked down one of those (incredibly rare) core i3 multiplayer Battlefield 3 reviews:

http://www.techbuyersguru.com/CPUgaming.php

This review shows the exact same scaling as the one I linked above for 4 cores/8 threads (performance drop with HT enabled), but shows GOOD PERFORMANCE INCREASE for 2C/4T:

That's pretty damn impressive scaling with the extra threads, making me wonder if it's Windows scheduler conflicts that hurt the 4C/8T scenario. Anyway, given the sizable performance advantage the Intel 4 cores have in most benchmarks I have seen, I expect that the Core i3 will perform similarly to the FX 6300, and possibly faster.

 

[Mekanic01]

What about video/photo editing. October through March is "Gaming season", and April through early October is "racing season" where my primary use is editing in-car videos with Vegas Pro, and hi-res photos up to 5,000 in a weekend.

As I run right now, I can handle both. However I have occasionals issue with BF3, and Vegas Pro tends to lag on me after I get to the end of editing and into rendering. A friend of mine is rendering the same videos in half to a quarter of the time I'm taking. However, I am on a dual-core, he's on a quad.

 

[Dangman]

For video editing, the AMD FX-6300 does outperform the Core i3-4130. However for photoshop, the Intel Core i3-4130 outperforms the FX-6300. Either CPU is still going to be a huge upgrade over your current E8400 though in Photo or video editing.

 

[Mekanic01]

Ok, why the i3 dual-core over a quad or six core? (just curiosity)

And the motherboard artimusbill recommended doesn't have much room for expansion. Is there another alternative that I could use for the possibility that I might be able to upgrade in say... 6-9 months?

There is a possibility to pull the trigger on this within the next couple weeks.

EDIT:
And here are the requirements for BF4, I would like to be able to run it "comfortably"

Minimum System Requirements
OS: Windows Vista SP2 32-bit
Processor (AMD): Athlon X2 2.8 GHz
Processor (Intel): Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHz
Memory: 4 GB
Hard Drive: 30 GB
Graphics card (AMD): AMD Radeon HD 3870
Graphics card (NVIDIA): Nvidia GeForce 8800 GT
Graphics memory: 512 MB

Recommended System Requirements
OS: Windows 8 64-bit
Processor (AMD): Six-core CPU
Processor (Intel): Quad-core CPU
Memory: 8 GB
Hard Drive: 30 GB
Graphics card (AMD): AMD Radeon HD 7870
Graphics card (Nvidia): NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660
Graphics memory: 3 GB

 

[defaultluser]

Ok, why the i3 dual-core over a quad or six core? (just curiosity)

Because most games outside of Battlefield 3 do not scale beyond 4 cores, and only a few more beyond that support 4 cores.

This means you can get similar performance from an Intel Pentium Dual Core as you can from AMD's FX 8350! It all depends on the game engine, and most game designers are still incredibly lazy.

The Core i3 bridges the gap between dual and quad core nicely: it's clocked almost as fast as the high-end quad cores,and for those rare cases where the game or application uses more then 2 cores, you'll get extra performance scaling due to the 4 threads. As you can see from the photo I linked, the performance increase can be anywhere from 20-40%, so it's like having "2.5" cores. Intel's inherent per-core performance advantage means that in most cases the i3 can match an AMD quad-core in applications that can take advantage of those cores. This is why the AMD quad core and the Core i3 are the recommended budget gaming options (this is you unless you plan on upgrading that HD 7750).

The AMD 6 core is not recommended except if you're going to be playing Battlefield 3 all day, or running video encodes, OR if you plan on doing a lot of tasks simultaneously (like say encode video and play a game at the same time). For all other use cases most of the cores will sit idle.

The Intel quad core is the optimum choice (fastest in all games, and competitive with AMD 6 and 8 cores in most encoding tasks), but it comes with a price premium.

If you could give us a list of the things that you do with your computer (in detail, including multiple tasks at once), and a list of the games you play betides Battlefield 3, we can help you make the right CPU selection.

 

[Mekanic01]

If you could give us a list of the things that you do with your computer (in detail, including multiple tasks at once), and a list of the games you play betides Battlefield 3, we can help you make the right CPU selection.

Internet
Email
Watch video
Edit video
Excel spreadsheets
website editing
photo sorts (resizing, watermarking, uploading)
photoshop editing
Gaming (BF3 and Civ5 currently, BF4 to come plus others. I like shooters and RTS)

In all honesty, I try to do everything I can at once. Usually when I'm editing/rendering videos I have to pull out my laptop because it's a drain on my system to do anything else.

BF3 tends to freeze up on loading screens from time to time, and when I close the game out my pc is useless for a couple minutes while it gets over the "hangover" for lack of a better description. Sometimes I have to restart the computer to get it going again.

I use Zoner Photo when I am sorting out photos, and quite often it will hang between pics.

I know that I can only do so much at once, I just want to do everything at once.

I don't ask for much, do I?

 

[tiraides]

With your $300 budget, yes, you do.

Regardless of whether you go Intel or AMD, you'll need a new video card on top of the processor/mobo/RAM upgrade to play BF4 at the recommended settings. We normally recommend an Intel Core i5 quad-core in most cases similar to yours, as Intels (CPU only) generally perform better in gaming benchmarks. But again, that damn budget....

If you plan on upgrading the processor in the near future (or, within next six months to a year), I'd recommend something along the lines of:

$140 - Intel Core i3-4130
$80 - MSI B85M-G43
$60 - ADATA XPG V1.0 8GB DDR3 1600

If you don't want to worry about another processor, then simply go with the FX-6300 and the GA-970A-D3P you were considering earlier. (But stick with my recommendation of the ADATA RAM; it's more than enough for your needs.)

 

[Dangman]

And here are the requirements for BF4, I would like to be able to run it "comfortably"

What's your definition of "comfortably"? I ask because "comfortable" is all relative. For me, my HD 6850 with BF3 at 1600 x 900 is barely comfortable. So I can't imagine your HD 7750, a card that's significantly slower than mine, providing comfortable performance with the newer BF4 and at a higher resolution.

So you might want a new GPU upgrade as well. Generally, if you want "comfortable", you aim for the recommended specs.

 

[Mekanic01]

What's your definition of "comfortably"? I ask because "comfortable" is all relative. For me, my HD 6850 with BF3 at 1600 x 900 is barely comfortable. So I can't imagine your HD 7750, a card that's significantly slower than mine, providing comfortable performance with the newer BF4 and at a higher resolution.

So you might want a new GPU upgrade as well. Generally, if you want "comfortable", you aim for the recommended specs.

If I don't have to run in on minimum settings, I'll be ok until I can upgrade. Basically, somewhere in between minimum and recommended.

 

[tiraides]

When can you upgrade the video card?

Do you want to get a good (quad- or hex-core) processor now or are you willing to upgrade to one later?

 

[Mekanic01]

Video card would have to wait, no idea how long.

Primary focus right now is CPU, RAM, Motherboard. Those are the parts I need to replace and still have a functioning computer with the budget I have. I would love to be able to build a new system, but right now it's just not in the cards.

 

[tiraides]

Can you live with an Intel Core i3 dual-core?

 

[Mekanic01]

Honestly, I think I would rather a quad-core i5, but I don't think it's in my budget.

What are the odds that I can find a copy of Win7 for significantly less than $99? $300 is my hardware budget, with a ~$100 OS.

 

[tiraides]

Amazon has Windows 7 Home Premium for around $91, but there are several eBay auctions that have it for as low as $85 shipped.

The cheapest Core i5 quad-core you'll find is the Ivy Bridge-based i5-3330, which costs around $180. If you want Haswell, we normally recommend the $200 i5-4570.

If you're able to bust your budget a little bit, you could get what you want:

$180 - i5-3330
$65 - Biostar B75MU3+
$60 - ADATA XPG V1.0 8GB DDR3 1600
=====
$305 - Total (not including taxes or rebates)

However, you're stuck on a dead-end platform (Socket 1155, which was just "replaced" by the Haswell-based Socket 1150). If you wish to upgrade the processor in the future, you'll probably have to look for a used one.

 

[Mekanic01]

Dead end platform is what I have now, and the reason I need to replace everything. I assume the 1150 is relatively new and won't be going out for a while?

 

[tiraides]

Haswell won't be replaced for at least another year.

Performance-wise, however, there isn't a huge gap between Haswell and Ivy Bridge. The "obsolete" i5-3330 would still be better for gaming than the FX-6300.

 

[defaultluser]

However, you're stuck on a dead-end platform (Socket 1155, which was just "replaced" by the Haswell-based Socket 1150). If you wish to upgrade the processor in the future, you'll probably have to look for a used one.

This is hardly a concern worth mentioning. If he buys the i5 now it will be good enough for 4-6 years (trust me, if he made due with an E8400 for all these years, he will be amazed by the i5). And we've already established that if he bought a processor with hyperthreading, he would probably turn it off anyway. Socket 1155 has native SATA 6 and native USB 3.0. and native PCIe 3.0...he won't be starved of features if he passes on 1150.

And even the "upgrade path" available on Socket 1150 is in question, since Intel has not committed to supporting Broadwell on the desktop.

Face it, when you buy an Intel quad core, you're not likely to upgrade just the processor. Especially when you consider his budget precludes any overclockable motherboard

Mekanic01, if you've lived with your dual-core build up until now, live with it long enough to afford the i5. That is the no-compromise build route, and it's only $50-60 more, which you can porobably save if you wait a month or two.

 

[Mekanic01]

So if I could up my budget to $400, what would you recommend? I might have to wait longer, but it might almost be worth it. I would like to do it before November.

 

[tiraides]

All you really need for Haswell:

$200 - Intel Core i5-4570
$80 - MSI B85M-G43
$60 - ADATA XPG V1.0 8GB DDR3 1600
=====
$340 - Total (not including taxes or rebates)

But you'll see no noticeable (performance) difference between the Haswell build and the Ivy Bridge build. Either setup would provide a remarkable improvement over your current build.

 

[defaultluser]

So if I could up my budget to $400, what would you recommend? I might have to wait longer, but it might almost be worth it. I would like to do it before November.

The ivy bridge Core i5 build would be great. Buy one and be happy that you can forget about it for the next 4-6 years, just like you did with your E8400

Seriously, I'm loving my $200 Core i5 2500k at stock. It's 2.5 years old and the fastest chip you can buy is 15-20% faster. I don't expect Skylake (2 years away) to wow us much more than Haswell did, so I am expecting to keep this for 7 years before I expect to see a worthy upgrade from Intel at the $200 price-point.

Given that Intel's mainstream platform tops-out at 4 cores, that is what high-end game designers will be targeting, and of course you'll get the fastest per-core performance anywhere, so even the laziest game designers (think Planetside 2) will still produce playable framerates on your system. It will also be even faster than the FX 6300 at video encoding (only the AMD 8 core is faster), hence why I say it's the ultimate no-compromise build.

If your video encoding needs ever change so much that you need more power than a Core i5, one would hope you are generating income from that much effort, and can afford the jump up to Socket 2011

 

[Mekanic01]

All you really need for Haswell:

$200 - Intel Core i5-4570
$80 - MSI B85M-G43
$60 - ADATA XPG V1.0 8GB DDR3 1600
=====
$340 - Total (not including taxes or rebates)

But you'll see no noticeable (performance) difference between the Haswell build and the Ivy Bridge build. Either setup would provide a remarkable improvement over your current build.

I guess it might be worth it then to spend the extra $40.

One more question. $20 for another .2GHz (i5 4670 3.4GHz). Is that worth bothering with, or just stay with the 4570?

 

[tiraides]

Stay with the i5-4570.

 

[Mekanic01]

Thanks everybody. I think that's the build I'll go with. Maybe come tax time I'll be back looking for a video card update.

 

[tiraides]

Revisit this thread a few days before purchase and give us a final list of what you plan on buying.

That way, we can either confirm that everything looks good or offer recommendations for cheaper or better parts.

 

[Mekanic01]

We'll have to see how things go, with the increase in the budget I'll probably have to piece it together instead of getting it all at once. I'll probably grab the motherboard and CPU first.

 

[Dangman]

We'll have to see how things go, with the increase in the budget I'll probably have to piece it together instead of getting it all at once. I'll probably grab the motherboard and CPU first.

Generally not a good idea as some parts may arrive DOA and you won't be able to test it until after the 30 day return period to the seller. Which means you would have to RMA to the manufacturer and that may take 2-3 weeks sometimes to get your motherboard or CPU back. Not to mention that while you're waiting for the last part, there might be better deal for the parts you have bought.

It's usually best to buy everything in one go unless that part is on an awesome sale. None of the parts that tirades linked is really on an awesome sale.

 

[defaultluser]

I agree entirely with Dangman best to buy all at once. Also the price of those B85 chipset boards could come down over the next couple months!

 

[Mekanic01]

Not really what I wanted to hear.....

Guess I'll see what I can scrounge up, maybe I can do this in 3-4 weeks then. Thanks again guys

 

[Mekanic01]

Saved a little money, pulled the trigger last night on Newegg's 10% off code. The price was up on the ADATA RAM, so I grabbed the Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB for $64.99 minus a 15% discount code for yesterday. Whole order was about $322.

Getting a fresh copy of Windows next Friday, and I should be set after that!

Is Win8 any better than Win7?

 

[Dangman]

What was your final build list?

Window 8 is better than Windows 7 in terms of under the hood performance but a PITA in the usability department.

 

[Mekanic01]

I'm familiar with Windows 7, maybe I'll just stick with it...

Final build will be:

Current build:
Samsung WriteMaster SH-S203N
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151154

Western Digital Caviar Blue WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136218

BenQ G2400WD Black 24" 5ms, 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor 250 cd/m2 DC 4000:1(1000:1)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824014173


New_______________________________
Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model BLS8G3D1609DS1S00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148540

Intel Core i5-4570 Haswell 3.2GHz LGA 1150 84W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics BX80646I54570
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116896

MSI B85M-G43 LGA 1150 Intel B85 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX High Performance CF Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130700
___________________________________

Radeon HD 7750
Memory Size 1024 MB
Memory Type GDDR5
Core Clock in MHz 800 MHz
Memory Clock in MHz 1125 MHz

Also a Corsair HX620W power supply and a 2tb secondary HDD for storage (SATA 3.0)

 

[Dangman]

Good luck with the build!

 

[Mekanic01]

Good luck with the build!

Thanks! I hope all goes well, I have a very limited time to get it up and running before I have to shoot a two-night event, after which I'll need the computer to be ready for both video editing and photo editing/sorting.

 

[Mekanic01]

The build is complete! Just adding in all the software I need now. Installed Zoner Pro and started sifting through some photos on my storage drive, already noticed a huge difference. It used to hang up a bit between photos, now it flips through them as fast as I can go! Love it!