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Thoughts on a new build

V

Vexorg

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 2, 2001
Messages
1,818
Even though my current system (built roughly 4 years ago) has held up surprisingly well for its age, it's getting to be just about time to build a new one. Originally my plan was to upgrade the video card and case and replace the hard drive with an SSD for now and do the MB/CPU later (specs in my SIG), but on further investigation it looks like the current mobo I've got would bottleneck the SSD, and I'm thinking that with as old as the system is I might as well just go ahead and jump in and do a full new build. I'm looking at roughly a $1,500 budget for this, so this is what I've come up with for a system:

Already purchased:
  • CoolerMaster HAF X case
  • EVGA GeForce GTX 660 Ti

Existing stuff I'll probably reuse (for now)
  • 500GB storage drive (I''ve had this for years and have yet to fill it up, maybe I'll look at a 1TB Raptor later on)
  • OCz 700W PSU (As far as I can tell there shouldn't be anything preventing me from reusing this, but are there any other factors like newer connector types I should consider?)
  • Ceton InfiniTV tuner card

New components:

  • Asus Maximus V Formula MB
  • Core I7 3770k
  • Samsung 840 Pro SSD
  • Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 (I'm looking at 16GB for now, but are there any particular advantages to going over 8GB?)
  • Corsair H80 cooler
  • Some random DVD burner, since it looks like the new mobo doesn't have any PATA ports on it

Thoughts on this build?
 
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Answering the standard questions:

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Mostly general work, some gaming. Mostly I'm looking for something that's going to hold up for a while. Generally I'm aiming at the upper-middle tier in terms of performance.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
About $1,500, excluding tax/shipping.

3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.
US

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need
As noted above.
.
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
As noted above.

6) Will you be overclocking?
I might, but I tend to prioritize reliability over raw speed.

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
dual 23" 1920x1080 monitors.

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
ASAP.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
Nothing too fancy at this point, but I might end up doing SLI at some point.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
It looks like my copy of Windows 7 should be transferrable.
 
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Which OCZ 700W PSU do you have?

Though off the bat, the CPU and mobo are pretty much overkill.
 
if you do want to go sli in the future you should look to invest in a larger psu.

i cant see any advantages of going over 8GB in RAM unless you are planning on running virtual machines on your desktop. 8GB is plenty for a win 7 gaming machine.
 
For a 1500 budget I would expect a higher tier card especially with dual monitors.
 
The PSU I have right now is an OCZ Game X Stream 700w. It's plenty to handle what I've got right now, I'm just not quite sure if it has all the connectors (particular the extra CPU voltage connectors) on a newer mobo. If I did go for SLI I'm pretty sure I would need more juice than I've got, but that's more a "maybe in the future" type thing than something I'm planning now.

As for the video card, I went with the 660 ti because it seems to be right around the sweet spot between price and performance. I'd have to go up to a 680 to get any significant performance improvements over the 660 ti (the 670 seems to be only marginally faster,) and that's a pretty big jump in price. I haven't tried any multimonitor gaming at this point. If I didn't need a case maybe I could have put more into the video card than I did, but the existing case I moved my system out of (an original model Antec Sonata) has been giving me ventilation issues for quite a while now. As I noted above, this was originally planned as an incremental upgrade (just the case, video card and an SSD) that's now turning into more of a full new build.

I know the MB/CPU combo is probably more than I really need right now, but I have a tougher time justifying the frequent upgrades I used to do these days, so I'm looking to build something that can last a while, hence spending a bit more now to get higher specs.
 
Vexorg said:
The PSU I have right now is an OCZ Game X Stream 700w. It's plenty to handle what I've got right now, I'm just not quite sure if it has all the connectors (particular the extra CPU voltage connectors) on a newer mobo. If I did go for SLI I'm pretty sure I would need more juice than I've got, but that's more a "maybe in the future" type thing than something I'm planning now.
Click to expand...

I'd recommend replacing that PSU ASAP. That's because the GameXStream 700W is based on an FSP Epsilon platform that has serious DC output quality issues (especially ripple) when pushed above 500W. And that ripple can kill some or all of the other components in your new PC even if the PSU itself doesn't die out or explode. (Although that serious failing is not OCZ's fault: All of the other PSUs that were based on the exact same FSP platform also suffered from the exact same DC output quality issue.)

In other words, you've been cheated (or lied to) when you bought that PSU in the first place. You paid the full 700W price, only to get what's effectively only a 500W PSU in return. In addition, due to the use and age of that PSU (the GameXStream series is no longer in production), that PSU of yours might not even produce even 500W of clean power - in fact, less than that!
 
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Vexorg said:
The PSU I have right now is an OCZ Game X Stream 700w. It's plenty to handle what I've got right now, I'm just not quite sure if it has all the connectors (particular the extra CPU voltage connectors) on a newer mobo. If I did go for SLI I'm pretty sure I would need more juice than I've got, but that's more a "maybe in the future" type thing than something I'm planning now.
Click to expand...
As E4g1e pointed out, that's a very crappy PSU that's barely capable of 500W of power let alone 700W of power. You're looking at a new PSU without a doubt. I recommend the following PSUs:
$70 - Corsair 650TX V2 650W PSU
$120 - Corsair HX650 650W Modular PSU

Vexorg said:
I know the MB/CPU combo is probably more than I really need right now, but I have a tougher time justifying the frequent upgrades I used to do these days, so I'm looking to build something that can last a while, hence spending a bit more now to get higher specs.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately there's just not a strong case for the mobo or CPU. Remember what you said earlier about the 660TI? Same thing applies here: Since gaming is the heaviest duty use that you've listed, there's very little reason to go with the Core i7 3770K when it's roughly 2% to 3% faster (at best) than the $190 Core i5 3470 (if not overclocking) or the $220 Core i7 3570K (if overclocking) in gaming. So that extra $100 for that small of a performance increase simply isn't worth it. Since you balked earlier about spending the extra cash for the GTX 670, then you should be balking about spending the extra cash for the Core i7 3770K.

As for the motherboard, that Asus Maximus V Formula isn't that much better to justify its higher costs. Since SLI is the only thing you've mentioned in response to question 9 and the fact that you're not even sure of whether or not you will overclock, the extra cash for that Asus Maximus V Formula isn't worth it in your case. You should be fine with this mobo:
$143 - Asus P8Z77-V LK Intel Z77 ATX Motherboard

So with the money saved from the CPU and mobo, that allows you get a new PSU or put that cash towards a larger SSD (not sure what size you chose) or even a second GTX 660 TI.

As for the RAM, 8GB of RAM should be enough for a gaming PC. However, RAM is relatively cheap at this point since you can get 16GB of 1.5V DDR3 1600 RAM for around $80 these days. If you're the type to leave multiple web browser windows open, that extra RAM helps. Hell I'm sitting at 12GB of RAM use right now.
 
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I got the PSU fairly cheap when I built the system (it was second-hand but NIB from someone who bought it and ended up not using it,) otherwise I probably would have gone with an Enermax or something similar. After doing some searching, I'm not seeing much about the apparent issues with this PSU though. A couple of scattered posts here and there about them dying at some point,.but nothing unusual. On the other hand, it might be nice to get a PSU with modular cables to cut back on the clutter in my system. If I recall, back when I built my current system modular cable PSUs generally had pretty terrible internals, and were thus mostly a gimmick, but now it looks like most of the higher-end PSUs do it.

One other question: On the motherboard, I'm seeing both 4-pin and 8-pin CPU power connectors. Is this an either/or thing, or does the board use both connectors simultaneously?
 
Vexorg said:
I got the PSU fairly cheap when I built the system (it was second-hand but NIB from someone who bought it and ended up not using it,) otherwise I probably would have gone with an Enermax or something similar. After doing some searching, I'm not seeing much about the apparent issues with this PSU though. A couple of scattered posts here and there about them dying at some point,.but nothing unusual.
Click to expand...
Related thread:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442

And review:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=24

Vexorg said:
On the other hand, it might be nice to get a PSU with modular cables to cut back on the clutter in my system. If I recall, back when I built my current system modular cable PSUs generally had pretty terrible internals, and were thus mostly a gimmick, but now it looks like most of the higher-end PSUs do it.
Click to expand...
Even back then there were good modular PSUs. But yes a lot of higher-end PSUs these days have modular cables.

Vexorg said:
One other question: On the motherboard, I'm seeing both 4-pin and 8-pin CPU power connectors. Is this an either/or thing, or does the board use both connectors simultaneously?
Click to expand...
Either/or
 
So messing around with things a bit, if I swap out the 3770k for a 3570k, and switch to a P8Z77-V motherboard (there are extra features like built-in Wi-Fi on the P8Z77-V or P8Z77-V Pro model that I would use which aren't on the LK model,) it knocks about $140 off the price, which should be enough for a decent PSU. I can probably knock a few more bucks off if I can catch a deal on the 840 Pro SSD (Newegg seems to discount them fairly often, I'm looking at the 256 GB model) and go down to 8GB RAM (I''ve still got 16 in the cart)

And I'm not saying that I won't end up overclocking on this system, just that I tend to prioritize stability over going as fast as I can. If I do overclock, I probably won't push the limits too hard, but there's a good chance I'll be doing some tweaking as I go along.
 
As far as power supplies go, if there is a possibility that I'm going to be running SLI video cards in the future, how much wattage am I going to want on my PSU? For example would I be fine with this Enermax 750W supply for $119, or should I be looking to go higher? A quick check on a PSU calculator puts the kind of configuration I'm looking at with 2 660 Tis around 568 watts at 90% load, or 625 watts at 100% load. I've had good luck with Enermax PSUs in the past, and I've seen somewhat mixed reviews on the Corsairs that seem to be the most popular choice in the price range.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817194086
 
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Vexorg said:
As far as power supplies go, if there is a possibility that I'm going to be running SLI video cards in the future, how much wattage am I going to want on my PSU? For example would I be fine with this Enermax 750W supply for $119, or should I be looking to go higher? A quick check on a PSU calculator puts the kind of configuration I'm looking at with 2 660 Tis around 568 watts at 90% load, or 625 watts at 100% load. I've had good luck with Enermax PSUs in the past, and I've seen somewhat mixed reviews on the Corsairs that seem to be the most popular choice in the price range.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817194086
Click to expand...

Here's the problem with that PSU:

It has a relatively weak +12V rail. Good 750W PSUs typically have 60A to 62A (720W to 744W) on the +12V rail. That PSU has only 648W (54A) on the +12V rail.

Second, that unit is not a true Enermax PSU, as the [H]ard|OCP review has shown. In fact, it is a Sirfa-built unit that performed only mediocre. And the "good" Enermax PSUs are manufactured by Enermax itself - and are relatively expensive. The NAXN82 series is one of the lesser-quality PSU lines sold under the Enermax brand name, outsourced to another manufacturer such as Sirfa (formerly Sirtec) and (on a few models) CWT.

So in other words, that NAXN82 750W PSU is clearly way overpriced (at its $130 shipped price) for its quality. Only get it if it costs less than $90 shipped.
 
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Based on some of the user reviews on Newegg for the Seasonic, it sounds like coil whine is an issue with some units, even when the system is on standby. I keep this PC in a bedroom, so this is something that might be a concern to me. There's also a lot of recent reports of DOA units or units failing after 6 months or so. If the PSU works out of the box it sounds like it generally works well, but based on the reviews I'm not so sure. Granted, any PSU can have problems (I've had a number of them go bad on me over the years, mostly cheap ones) but it's kind of hard to ignore that kind of thing, especially for something that's ostensibly a high-end PSU.
 
Honestly I don't think it's that big of an issue otherwise I wouldn't have recommended the Seasonic in the first place. Remember that people who have issues tend to post more than those that don't. With that said, I did recommend the Corsair HX750 as well.
 
OK, so after doing some tinkering with the components, here's what I've got in my cart right now (these are Newegg prices):

PSU: Corsair HX750 ($149.99)
MB: Asus P8Z77-V ($189.99)
RAM: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB DDR3 1600 (included with the motherboard on a promo)
CPU: Core i5 3570K($229.99)
Cooler: Corsair H80i ($94.99 plus $10 rebate)
SSD: Samsung 840 250GB ($149.99, today only)

Total: $825.91

Comments:
-The 840 Pro SSD is a firebreather based on all the reviews, but I'm not sure if it's worth the extra $100 price increase over the standard model 840. I'm upgrading from a hard drive (a WD Raptor 150GB), so I'm pretty sure I can expect a pretty decent performance increase either way. Thoughts on this?

- If I have an extra $200 in the budget to play with based on these prices (I'm looking at roughly $1,500 on the build, with about $475 already spent on the case and video card), where would I get the most benefit out of it?
 
Still tinkering with things here, but on taking a closer look at the stuff I have in the cart, it looks like the RAM included with the motherboard in the promo is a single 8GB stick, which means I wouldn't be using dual channel if I went with that. I could throw in a second 8GB stick (for 16GB total) for $50 if I wanted, but I'm not sure how much difference it would make. How much of a difference does dual channel RAM make compared to single channel? I could always add the second stick later if I wanted, but I figure it's probably better to just get it now so I can make sure to get matching sticks.

I'm also leaning toward adding the 840 Pro back in, even though I'm sure something even faster will come out about ten seconds after I order...

Currently, my plan is to order parts this weekend after my next paycheck. Still not completely decided on things, but getting close.
 
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Quick update: Just grabbed the Seasonic X-Series 850W PSU deal currently on Newegg for $130 plus an additional $20 MIR. Pretty sure it's overkill for the system I'm building, but I figure that should take care of the power supply situation quite nicely, and the reviews are quite good on this one, and it's cheaper than the HX750 I was looking at previously. Still a bit wary of some of the coil whine issues reported (this system does live in my bedroom) but I guess I'll see how this works out.
 
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OK, probably the last update before I actually buy: I threw in a cheap SATA DVD-R drive ($20) and I'm now looking at getting an H100i for the cooler instead of an H80i since the price difference between the two is only $15, and my case has plenty of room to handle the bigger radiator. Everything else looks ro be pretty well set. Based on my calculations, I should be coming in somewhere just under $1,470 total on this build (including sales tax on the case and video card which were purchased locally from Fry's.)
 
And everything's purchased now. Here's what I ultimately ended up with:

CPU: Core i5 3570K
Cooler: Corsair H100i
Motherboard: Asus P8Z77-V
Video card: EVGA GTX 660 Ti
PSU: Seasonic X-850
RAM: 16GB (2x8GB) Corsair DDR3 1600
SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB
Case: CoolerMaster HAF X
Misc: DVD-R drive
Reused from current system: InfiniTV card, 500GB storage drive

I figure that this should be plenty of power to last a while, and if I need it I've got some clear upgrade paths (more RAM, bigger storage drive, second video card for SLI) to give it a boost later on. I think I'm probably going to end up replacing the hard drive with something bigger at some point anyway, if for no other reason than the fact that my current HD is getting pretty old and I'd rather not have it go out on me at an inconvenient time.
 
PSU is fairly overkill and not a fan of that case but it's not a bad setup.
 
Just a quick note to say that I am now officially up and running on my new system. Still in the process of setting things up, but so far I'm pretty impressed by the boot times, and how fast things are. The one other change I made was that I decided to just go ahead and upgrade the storage drive too (bought a 3TB Seagate off Amazon) since even though I still had a good 200GB free on the old drive it was getting old, and I'm not sure how much longer it's going to last. Besides, if I start using the TV tuner card in my system to DVR stuff, I'm sure the extra space will come in handy.

Thanks to everyone for the advice on this build.
 
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