Those who are interested in my new build (advice and/or shame)

D

daines1

Weaksauce
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
73
Greetings HardForumites!

I have finally finished ordering all the parts for my new system. I shall post them here so you can mock me and/or tell me I did a good job. I did a lot of research (as did a friend) and this is what we came up with. Any advice would be welcome! First I give you my current system. Please forgive me for not knowing all the parts. I assure you know all the new parts!

Old system:

CPU: AMD X2 4800+ 939 Chipset
Mobo: MSI Neo Platinum 2
Ram: 2gigs of some sort of cheap Kingston RAM
GPU: ATI x1950 Pro (PowerColor 256MB)
HDD: 300GB IDE (os) and 250 IDE (storage)
Sound: Onboard sound (XFi sitting on table mocking me due to driver issues at some point)
PSU: BFG 650W
CD/DVDRW: Pioneer 16x (Really great drive)
Case: Some Antec case with a spider on the front becase I like Spiderman and I am a dork.

Think that's the gist of my old system.

New system (Woot, here come the details!):

CPU: INTEL core 2 duo e6750 (https://www.mwave.com/mwave/Skusearch.hmx?scriteria=BA24051)
Mobo: EVGA 122-ck-nf68-A1 nvidia nforce 680i sli (http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=122-CK-NF68-A1&family=20)
Ram: OCZ ocz2rpr8002gk 2gb kit (x2 = 4GIGS) https://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=BA24076
GPU: XFX GeForce 8800 GT Video Card - Extreme Edition x2(http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=P450-8810)
Sound: Onboard (or XFi if I'm feeling lucky)
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148288)
PSU: OCZ ocz700gxssli game xtreme atx 12v v2.2 / eps 12v 700w nvidia sli certified (https://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=BA23598)
Case: ANTEC p182 (black) atx tower case (http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=BA23818)

So that's it. Hope I didn't make it too complicated to follow. What do you think?

Thanks for the input ye Gods of Hardware!

Daines1
 
Given the recent announcement that the 680i boards won't work with the next generation of Core 2 Quad processors, I would have waited until the 780i boards were released before building a new SLI rig. If you want to upgrade your processor during the lifetime of this rig, your choices will be very, very limited, especially as the supply of current quad core chips diminishes.

Also, be sure to run a 64-bit OS in order to use all four gigs of RAM. 32-bit Windows is limited to 4 gigs MINUS the total amount of component memory installed in your system (i.e. the memory in your video cards.) You'll loose over 1 gig of usable RAM with 32-bit XP or Visat, especially if you add an X-fi (depends on model however.) Given this, I strongly recommend Vista over XP-64, as despite Vista being a newer OS, its 64-bit platform is far more mature than XP's. There's much better driver support and application compatibility is significantly stronger.

Otherwise looks good. Vista X-Fi drivers are fine now, so feel free to install the card if you like.

Mark.
 
Mark,

Thanks for your input. As always everyone here is on top of their game. Any certain version of Vista 64 to get? Home / Home Premium / Business / Ultimate?

Since I am going to need an OS for this box, I might as well give it a shot. That way I can use my GT SLI cards and DirectX 10.

As for the Mobo, I think I'm gonna stick with the 680i and upgrade accordingly in the future. Hopefully PCIe will stick around so my Video cards won't have been a waste of around $600.

Seriously, thanks for your opinions. I think you are right about the mobo. I may revise it once I get it up and running. Thanks for taking the time out of your day for the help. I hope you don't think I am being ungrateful to your advice.

Cheers!

Daines1
 
No problem :)

Vista Home Premium is the version to get for most home / gaming rigs. It basically replaces XP Media Center Edition, but even if you don't want Media Center, note that Vista home basic does not come with many of the more significant Vista upgrades, such as Aero Glass.

If you have a need to join Domains or want Volume Shadow Copy / Previous Versions (perhaps Vista's most useful new feature, although previously available on Server 2003) you'll need to give up Media Center and go with the Business edition, or spring for Ultimate--which at $400 is incredibly overpriced.

Microsoft needs to take a cue from Apple and offer one edition of Vista with everything for $100. Anything else is unjustified today.

Mark.
 
I have had such horrible experience with ATI recently. ATI x1950 + Drivers killed my current system. Ok, not killed, but pissed me off so much that I'm willing to take a hit graphically for a more stable GPU. The GTs are unproven at this point, but the reviews are promising.

Did I mention I despise ATI at the moment. It's probably unfounded now, but when you get really burned the scars take a long time to heal. (BTW, I bought the 9700Pro when it first came out years ago and it ROCKED! There's still hope!)

Anyone else have opinions about Vista 64? I'm about to add it to my wish list. I can get it for @ $180ish at Mwave (OEM). http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=AA66810&RSKU=AA66810 Or is that the upgrade version of the software?

Thanks again guys,

Daines1
 
Both ATI and nVidia have there hits and misses. When evaluating graphic cards, it best to look at which card has the advantage now and not consider past generations. The x38 / 3870 setup is a considerable alternative. Here is a basic comparison between the two setups:

As far as Video Card power & performance goes, 8800GT > 3870, but not by much (especially if you disregard AA.) Furthermore, AFAIK GTs are hard to come by at the moment, especially at a reasonable price point.

As far as the motherboards go, X38 > 680i. The X38, while newer, comes from a history of more stable chipsets. It also supports the next generation of Core 2 processors, which the 680i line does not. Lastly, you can expect an X38 board to OC better than a 680i board.

Therefore, the decision should be made based on whether or not you prefer a better motherboard or a better video card.

Here are two points to consider:

1) What resolution do you plan to game at? For resolutions below 1920x1200, SLI and Crossfire don't make sense. Lower resolutions just aren't demanding enough to require two cards with today's current games (except Crysis, which demands more than any SLI system can provide.) In such a case, you'll be much better off with a single GTX card (for about $100 less than the GT SLI setup given current prices.) Remember that a single card solution is cooler running, easier to maintain, and provides for more upgrade options.

2) Are you interested in OCing your processor? I would assume with the purchase of a 6750 that you intend to OC. Otherwise, buying a Quad Q6600 for less than $100 more makes far more sense. If you are looking for a 4ghz+ OC, you will have a better time reaching it on an X38 board. 680i boards are no OC slouches, but their FSB OCs don't usually approach the 500mhz barrier that you'd be looking for in a good E6750 OC.

Just some things to think about.

Mark.
 
Mark,

Your replies rock. Well thought out and written. Thanks.

Here's my setup display wise:

Westinghouse 37" 37w3 @ 1920x1080p

From my experience, the ATI drivers I use with my x1950 Pro do not scale to screen size. Meaning, if I choose any resolution below 1920x1080p I will lose screen real-estate. Very frustrating.

I tested Nvidia's drivers recently with a borrowed card and all resolutions use the whole 37" even if it looks like crap while doing so. This fact plus the fact that I'll need SLI or Xfire to get games to run decent at that high resolution.

Having 2 GTs > 1 GTX so I decided to go that route. I don't see myself having $500 for a new GTX anytime soon and since I had the cash to buy a GPU solution now, I figured I'd just get the best I could. I picked up 2 XFX Alpha Dog OCed cards. It was expensive, but after reading up on some reviews, they seemed really good and stable cards. Sad news about them is the fact that I won't be able to OC them much more than they are. I've heard of people getting the XFX AD cards up to 710MHz but that was pushing it. Not so much on doing that to my system.

Looking at my specs above, I just hit the $1600 mark. It was my budget and was honestly the reason I didn't jump for the Q6600. If I could have found the extra cash, I would have but sadly prostitution is illegal in my state. Tragic I know. Had I stuck with 2gigs of memory, I would have been able to get the Q6600, but from my experience, if you are ever going to add more memory to your system, might as well max them out at once. I've had bad experiences with buying additional memory later and only being able to use one pair. (Even when the memory was supposedly the same type/brand/model number.) So, that is why I went for 4 gigs of memory now. If I ever want to upgrade again, I can just max out my current MOBO with a new processor or dance around and get a new MOBO and processor again.

As for OCing, I haven't really put much thought in it. It is one of those things I know I could do well (just because I have a lot of general tech knowledge), but since I haven't "done" it yet, I am a little nervous about it. I'd probably need a good CPU heatsink, more fans in case and probably extra cooling on video cards? Once I have the system stable, I'll definitely start playing with it.

Thank God for BartPE and Ghost32. I will probably create 2 images. One with WinXP Pro and one with Vista Ultimate 64. That way I can go between them fairly easily. Did you notice if the Vista link I supplied is real deal or upgrade?

Back to the mobo debate, I was under the impression that there were no X38 SLI mobos out yet. Since I wanted to go Nvidia (for reasons previously mentioned), I would be stuck with getting a single SLI card (GTX) instead of two GTs. Was I told wrong about SLI X38 boards?

Daines1
 
There are no SLI x38 boards and there are no plans for them in the future. SLI is an nVidia technology, and so far, nVidia has been steadfast against licensing it for use on a competitor's chipset. In order to go with a dual graphic card setup on an x38 board, you will need to switch to ATI Crossfire cards.

With your monitor resolution, SLI or Crossfire will be of use--and you will likely see superior performance from a dual GT/680i setup than from a single card P35 or X38 setup with a faster processor.

OCing is a great (and very much low-risk) way to increase the performance of your computer without extra cost. An E6750 should be able to OC to 4ghz with a good air cooler. Take a look at the Tuniq Tower, the Skythe Ninja, or the Thermalrighte Ultra Extreme. When putting your rig together, you can substitute the stock air cooler for one of these. You shouldn't have an issue installing any of them with your motherboard and case selections. Case fans help keep the system cool, but are not as essential to a stable processor OC. I'm not sure what the P182 comes with, but if there is room for more fans in the case, picking up a couple doesn't hurt. Lastly, you do not need to replace the coolers on the video cards unless you are planning to substantially OC them. For a processor only OC and for a modest video card OC, the stock video card coolers are fine.

There are many excellent guides on this forum and elsewhere that teach the fundamentals of Core 2 overclocking. Look in the Processors section here and google Core 2 Overclock Guide for some more information.

Good luck,

Mark.
 
I concur with Markyip1.

daines1 said:
Thank God for BartPE and Ghost32. I will probably create 2 images. One with WinXP Pro and one with Vista Ultimate 64. That way I can go between them fairly easily. Did you notice if the Vista link I supplied is real deal or upgrade?
Click to expand...

It's the real deal but it's an OEM version. Meaning that it can only be installed on one system and it stays on that system till that system dies. You can't move the OEM copy/key to another PC. So it lives and dies with your PC.
 
Just did some research and buying myself a OEM version of software would be insane. I wish I knew this before my wife got her $84 XP Home edition (OEM) but now I know. So... now I have to really figure out how to get Vista 64. Ouch!

Thanks again guys. Thanks also for keeping me from making a huge mistake!

Daines1
 
It's not a huge mistake. Just a caveat. If you're cash strapped, that OEM edition will work pretty well. Plus it's trying the whole "my mobo died so can I please get a new key?" thing with MS customer service.
 
With Christmas coming up, I was thinking about getting Vista 32/64 "whatever". I talked to my friend and he felt that the hit in memory wasn't worth the headache and money Vista would cost me. He felt that $200+ was just too much when other things are coming out I could use.

Am I insane, greedy or smart?

Daines1
 
There has been a lot of discussion and debate on this topic, but I ran games on XP for the last oh, 4 years or so, and it has always worked pretty well. Moving over to Vista, there is definately some annoyances I have to deal with and I'm not sure that some slick looking windows is really worth it all. The direct X 10 thing is the only reason to go with Vista, and it's still in the infancy stages. If you have a good legit copy of windows XP, I'd recommend you install that first. Maybe by next summer they will come out with a service pack for Vista or something, or dx10 modes will improve. At this point I am not completely sold on it.

I've got Vista Business, and it seems like a pretty nice version. It does have the aero glass and a lot of buisiness type features. I'm not sure how much windows media center is needed on a non-htpc (it's not, imo), I can still play music and movies and all that without it. Plus if you really feel you need it, you can just download media portal for free.

I should also add that I've had a fair amount of problems and annoyances with Vista so far, like trying to install something and waiting 3 minutes for Vista to remember to ask me for permission, or not getting certain files and programs to work. Overall games have worked fine in vista though, ONCE I get them installed that is. I ran some benchmarks and it is pretty much the same speed I had before, maybe 2% slower. If I had to do it again though, I would definately go 4GB of RAM and a 64-bit version.

Oh, one thing I also like is it shows me a graphical indicator of the capacity of my local disk and network drives. It's one of those things I'm used to right-click > properties and that saves me a little time.
 
daines1 said:
With Christmas coming up, I was thinking about getting Vista 32/64 "whatever". I talked to my friend and he felt that the hit in memory wasn't worth the headache and money Vista would cost me. He felt that $200+ was just too much when other things are coming out I could use.

Am I insane, greedy or smart?

Daines1
Click to expand...

An OEM copy of Vista Home Premium, and you can get either a 32-bit or a 64-bit version, costs $105 at NewEgg (compared to the $240 retail cost for the full version, plus the extra costs to have Microsoft send you a 64-bit version of the OS). People recommend the 64-bit version of Vista (for those who have/are getting 4GB or more of memory) because 32-bit operating systems can't address more than 4GB of RAM (and, IIRC, it subtracts the amount of memory used by other resources from that above total). Additionally, more drivers have been written for the 64-bit version of Vista than for Windows XP Pro x64.

Just know that if you buy an OEM copy, that OEM license is tied to the motherboard and can't be transferred once activated/registered.
 
tiraides said:
An OEM copy of Vista Home Premium, and you can get either a 32-bit or a 64-bit version, costs $105 at NewEgg (compared to the $240 retail cost for the full version, plus the extra costs to have Microsoft send you a 64-bit version of the OS). People recommend the 64-bit version of Vista (for those who have/are getting 4GB or more of memory) because 32-bit operating systems can't address more than 4GB of RAM (and, IIRC, it subtracts the amount of memory used by other resources from that above total). Additionally, more drivers have been written for the 64-bit version of Vista than for Windows XP Pro x64.

Just know that if you buy an OEM copy, that OEM license is tied to the motherboard and can't be transferred once activated/registered.
Click to expand...

Thanks tiraides and the rest.

I just found this article and thought it was interesting. Check out the performance hits Vista 64 takes compaired to XP over 9 games.

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=702

I think it's pretty substantial. Think this review is valid? After reading it, I felt his testing methods were pretty sound. (at least compared to all the others I have read.) If this review is solid, no way I'm going to Vista anytime soon.

Rumor has it that SP3 for XP gives the OS a 10% boost in performance. Does that mean games? Dunno, it's still a rumor... but not for long.

WHILE I'M AT IT!!!! My eVGA mobo may not be coming anytime soon. Even though Mwave charged me for it, it hasn't shipped and not sure when it will. Please give me some alternative solutions for a mobo. Here's what I need and what I would like:

NEED:
Under $275
SLI compatable
Works with E6750
Recognizes 4 Gigs of RAM (most do I think)

WANT:
External Sata drive port! (That's just icing really)
+6 USB ports

Daines1
 
Game performance between XP and Vista is still a contested issue by some, however most find that by now performance is comparable between the two operating systems. Just be sure that your video and sound card drivers are up to date in Vista.

The reason you should strongly consider Vista over XP is because you're putting together a system with 4 gigs of RAM, and as I mentioned above in my first post, a 32-bit version of Windows will not be able to utilize all of your RAM. (With your video cards and sound card, you're looking at 3 gigs of usable RAM in a 32-bit OS at most.) Secondly, XP 64 is a very poor option for the home / gaming desktop, as application and driver support is severely lacking. Some people will mention that they have XP-64 running w/o issues, and indeed it's a worthwhile choice for some limited computing environments (I use it on my main development workstation at work, for example.) However, considering that it was released more as a tech demo than a full-fledged alternative to XP-32, and considering that it was never intended for home desktops, you'll find using it in a home environment to likely be a challenge.

Games may work, but nVidia may not spend as much time optimizing their XP-64 drivers as they do their Vista drivers, so performance may suffer. Or you may find that your printer manufacturer just released Vista 64 drivers, but has put up a statement on their website stating that XP-64 users are left out in the cold. Furthermore, keep in mind that Vista x64 does not have these issues, in part because Microsoft has changed it's policy regarding support for the OS, placing it as a first-class sibling of Vista 32. For Vista certification, if a hardware manufacturer releases 32-bit Vista drivers, it must release 64-bit Vista drivers as well.

I personally have run Vista 64 for over a year now, and while it was rough going over the first few months, drivers hit a major maturity milestone in the late spring, and now I find no reason to prefer XP. If you do decide on XP, stick with the 32-bit version. Just make sure you're okay with missing RAM. Otherwise, Vista x64 is the way to go.

Mark.
 
Mark,

I noticed that you're currently using the EVGA 680i A1 board. I've been trying to get it for a while and wanted to know what your experience with the board has been.

Looking at the rest of the system, I would assume that you could easily change it out if you were not satisfied with it. :D

Daines1
 
My board has been great... zero issues with it. However, they do seem to be sold out almost everywhere right now. If I were you I would wait until the 780i boards are out if you still haven't purchased a motherboard yet. The likely reason why there are no 680i boards is that manufacturing has spun down in anticipation of the 780i product refresh. They're supposedly right around the corner and they'll work with the next generation of Core 2 Quads.

Mark.
 
Final Build:

CPU: INTEL core 2 duo e6750 (https://www.mwave.com/mwave/Skusearc...iteria=BA24051)
Mobo: XFX 680i Motherboard (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2959596&CatId=13)
Ram: OCZ ocz2rpr8002gk 2gb kit (x2 = 4GIGS) https://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec...iteria=BA24076
GPU: XFX GeForce 8800 GT Video Card - Extreme Edition x2(http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...?Sku=P450-8810)
Sound: Onboard (or XFi if I'm feeling lucky)
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148288)
PSU: OCZ ocz700gxssli game xtreme atx 12v v2.2 / eps 12v 700w nvidia sli certified (https://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec...iteria=BA23598)
Case: ANTEC p182 (black) atx tower case (http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec....iteria=BA23818)

Thanks for everyone's help and advice. I am currently typing this to you on my new system. I installed Oblivion last night just to "see" it. I'm not on my large monitor, but 1280 looks gorgeous and is as smooth as butter.

I'm so happy! I'll keep you all updated as to how it is running. I am about to test EQ2 in a few minutes. That should really test this system!

Daines1
 
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