Thonet & Vander Kugel

[M76]

I recently bought myself this amplified bookshelf speaker set. Here are my two cents of it.

The company claims this is their high end product, and the price reflects that claim very well. I paid about $250 for it. As far as computer speakers go that's quite a lot.


http://www.thonet-vander.com/img/imgprod2/img_prod2_kugel.jpg[/

The amplifier and the power adapter is built into the right speaker box, so there is no external power brick, which is a big plus for me.

The second thing I noticed is that the left speaker cable is very thick it has 4 wires in it, which means the tweeter is driven separately. But unfortunately this cable is also very short. It's barely enough to span my desk from end to end. So if you're looking to put the speakers further away from each other, on a separate stand you're out of luck. I haven't measured it but it's no more than 2-2.5m .And they used proprietary connectors so there is no way to replace it with a longer one, unless you're willing to destroy the one they supplied.

The remote they supply is wired. I'm not a big fan of wired remotes, for this price they could've included an IR remote at least. Also it's only function is to change volume. All other controls are on the back of the right speaker. I might understand that they hide the Tone controls, you usually set it up once and then leave it. But I'd still have preferred them to be easily accessible. But the damn on-off switch is on the back too ?! You use that daily, unless you're a freak who has his computer on 24/7. Why on earth did they think it's a good idea to hide the switch on the back of the speaker? Now I have to fiddle blindly on the back of the speaker each time I want to turn it on/off.

Thankfully I have lots of space to reach the back of the unit, but imagine someone with a cramped desk setup, how will they use it on a daily basis?

It seems to me that they put together this product haphazardly without stopping to even consider ergonomics for a minute.

Oh the remote also has a line in jack connector which I'm also confused about. What good is that? If it was a headphone jack I'd see the use, but a line in?

The design is basic, but stylish. I have no complaints about that.

Sound wise it didn't blow me away. I was expecting something extraordinary. I'm in no way an expert, I don't mean to tell it has bad sound. And it's loud too. I just expected it to blow me away, with the clarity of sound. I hope it will get better as it's broken in. But right now my cheapo Jamo PJ FC-1000 speakers seem to sound better.

Overall I wouldn't recommend this product, for this price there has to be something better out there.

 

[Neutrino]

Thanks for the head's up

I looked a bit on their site and it seems they are an actually active setup (or so they say) but from what you mentioned it almost sounds like they placed all 4 amps in one speaker then used that thick cable to power the other also (very unusual choice IMO)

In this price range you are probably far better off with some KRK Rokitt or M-Audio Bx series

 

[heflys20]

So if you're looking to put the speakers further away from each other, on a separate stand you're out of luck. I haven't measured it but it's no more than 2-2.5m .And they used proprietary connectors so there is no way to replace it with a longer one, unless you're willing to destroy the one they supplied.

That sucks.

But the damn on-off switch is on the back too ?! You use that daily, unless you're a freak who has his computer on 24/7. Why on earth did they think it's a good idea to hide the switch on the back of the speaker? Now I have to fiddle blindly on the back of the speaker each time I want to turn it on/off.

Hey, I'm one of those freaks, well, mostly. LOL. Anyway, speakers of this size with amps of this caliber usually have the power switch on the rear. Not really surprised by that one.

These things look to be a breeze to set up compared to some studio monitors.

Thankfully I have lots of space to reach the back of the unit, but imagine someone with a cramped desk setup, how will they use it on a daily basis?

It'd probably be best to make space, or buy smaller speakers if it's too cramped.

Sound wise it didn't blow me away. I was expecting something extraordinary. I'm in no way an expert, I don't mean to tell it has bad sound. And it's loud too. I just expected it to blow me away, with the clarity of sound. I hope it will get better as it's broken in. But right now my cheapo Jamo PJ FC-1000 speakers seem to sound better.

You might need to get more acclimated with the sound. The frequency response seems to be decent:

But there are various other factors that play into sound quality.

 

[M76]

Thanks for the head's up

I looked a bit on their site and it seems they are an actually active setup (or so they say) but from what you mentioned it almost sounds like they placed all 4 amps in one speaker then used that thick cable to power the other also (very unusual choice IMO)

In this price range you are probably far better off with some KRK Rokitt or M-Audio Bx series

They most certainly put all the hardware in the right speaker, so the left only has the two drivers in it. That you can tell by the weight right away. I don't find that unusual however,

Yes I was looking at the M-Audio line as well. But thought this is a new company they're out to impress, so they might gave it some extra effort, also it's german. Plus I like to take the untrodden road. It's much more interesting, than to buy something proven. This time it didn't pay off.

But still it's not a bad product, just not the holy grail I was looking for.

 

[Neutrino]

I understand why you bought them, it's very cool to discover less known products...hidden gems if you will.

I have several reasons I said that I find placing all 4 amps in a single enclosure is unusual.

• I don't think I ever saw a quality studio monitor to do that
• Packaging issues, 4 amps in a small space is no small feat and can lead to design compromises
• Heat
• Tethering the two speakers

And I fail to see any advantage aside from using a single plug which is offset by the tethering issue

Btw if you are a fan of German engineering I would like to point you to Adam audio...cannot go wrong with them

 

[spaceman]

Adam Audio aye! That is true quality there.

 

[B00nie]

I recently bought myself this amplified bookshelf speaker set. Here are my two cents of it.

The company claims this is their high end product, and the price reflects that claim very well. I paid about $250 for it. As far as computer speakers go that's quite a lot.

Yeah but as far as active speakers go that's about as low as it gets. Don't expect miracles. A proper pair of bass drivers cost more than 250 dollars, leaves no money for the rest of the speaker!

The second thing I noticed is that the left speaker cable is very thick it has 4 wires in it, which means the tweeter is driven separately. But unfortunately this cable is also very short. It's barely enough to span my desk from end to end. So if you're looking to put the speakers further away from each other, on a separate stand you're out of luck. I haven't measured it but it's no more than 2-2.5m .And they used proprietary connectors so there is no way to replace it with a longer one, unless you're willing to destroy the one they supplied.

The speakers are probably meant for near field use, they would not even perform as intended if you place the speakers too far from your listening position. You're supposed to place these speakers at the height of your ear (tweeter) and no further than 10-15 inches away from your ears. Try to set them up like that and report back with your findings.

The 4 wires in the cable can also mean that they're only powered speakers and the passive crossover is inside the other speaker which makes it biwiring not biamp.

The remote they supply is wired. I'm not a big fan of wired remotes, for this price they could've included an IR remote at least. Also it's only function is to change volume. All other controls are on the back of the right speaker. I might understand that they hide the Tone controls, you usually set it up once and then leave it. But I'd still have preferred them to be easily accessible. But the damn on-off switch is on the back too ?! You use that daily, unless you're a freak who has his computer on 24/7. Why on earth did they think it's a good idea to hide the switch on the back of the speaker? Now I have to fiddle blindly on the back of the speaker each time I want to turn it on/off.

In most cases this sort of speakers have an auto sensing power that turns the speakers on automatically when you start to play sound. They won't use much electricity sitting idle even if you leave them on 24/7 though.

Oh the remote also has a line in jack connector which I'm also confused about. What good is that? If it was a headphone jack I'd see the use, but a line in?

For plugging your ipod or smart phone.

Sound wise it didn't blow me away. I was expecting something extraordinary. I'm in no way an expert, I don't mean to tell it has bad sound. And it's loud too. I just expected it to blow me away, with the clarity of sound. I hope it will get better as it's broken in. But right now my cheapo Jamo PJ FC-1000 speakers seem to sound better.

Overall I wouldn't recommend this product, for this price there has to be something better out there.

Try to position them like I said earlyer on the thread, if they're intended for near field use they will have a correct sound only in very close proximity of the speaker and the tweeter of the speaker must be at the height of your ears.

 

[Neutrino]

The 4 wires in the cable can also mean that they're only powered speakers and the passive crossover is inside the other speaker which makes it biwiring not biamp.

That is what i thought also but on their site they claim it's active not just powered. Here is a quote from their site regarding this particular speaker pair:

ACTIVE CROSSOVER
The division of frequencies is done through the use of active filters, Fourth order, built with operational amplifiers. This is done prior to amplification, so two specially configured amplifiers are used for work in each frequency range. This technology allows for greater precision in the frequency-division improving qualitatively and quantitatively the response of the system.

So unless they themselves confuse the concept of powered vs active speakers they must be lying. Neither option is encouraging.

This is why i was confused ... if indeed active it sounds like they would've placed all 4 amps in 1 speaker ... complete nonsense from my point of view

Adam Audio aye! That is true quality there.

indeed ... wish i could justify a pair of s3x-V or s3x-H

 

[B00nie]

That is what i thought also but on their site they claim it's active not just powered. Here is a quote from their site regarding this particular speaker pair:



So unless they themselves confuse the concept of powered vs active speakers they must be lying. Neither option is encouraging.

This is why i was confused ... if indeed active it sounds like they would've placed all 4 amps in 1 speaker ... complete nonsense from my point of view



indeed ... wish i could justify a pair of s3x-V or s3x-H

Well it seems that the terminology is not 100% clear as even JBL use the term 'powered monitor' when their monitor is biamped and has a low level crossover.

 

[M76]

The speakers are probably meant for near field use, they would not even perform as intended if you place the speakers too far from your listening position. You're supposed to place these speakers at the height of your ear (tweeter) and no further than 10-15 inches away from your ears. Try to set them up like that and report back with your findings.

They are positioned like that. Well maybe not 10 inches, that would be overkill even the display is farther away than that which is right in front of me. Nothing can be positioned closer than that on the desk. They are about 20-25 inches away. There is no way I can bring them closer than that.

But that's all hypothetical, since the left side amp just died in the speaker yesterday. So another nail in the coffin for this company.

indeed ... wish i could justify a pair of s3x-V or s3x-H

That costs more than my entire setup including everything. There is no justifying that. Even the cost of this speaker is more than I'm feeling comfortable paying for computer audio.

 

[heflys20]

A dead amp already!? Sorry to hear, I just spent about the equivalent on my new JBL's LSR305'. Nothing but audio bliss since they arrived. They even game well.

 

[B00nie]

That costs more than my entire setup including everything. There is no justifying that. Even the cost of this speaker is more than I'm feeling comfortable paying for computer audio.

If this is the situation you have only 3 options left:

1) Buy horrible computer speakers that cost 60 bucks but cost 5 bucks to make
2) Use headphones
3) Buy second hand speakers

Option 1 is the least appealing, option 3 can be good if you get super lucky and option 2 is the compromise I would personally make if I didn't have at least 400-500 bucks to spend to a pair of active monitors.

 

[M76]

1) As far as horrible computer speakers go I had a Creative Inspire P5800, and I was quite ok with it gaming wise. So I might even return them to active duty, and sell these after they're replaced.
2) I'm really not comfortable with headphones.
3) There isn't much of a market here for second hand active monitors. But there will be when I'm selling this one

 

[Neutrino]

That costs more than my entire setup including everything. There is no justifying that. Even the cost of this speaker is more than I'm feeling comfortable paying for computer audio.

Ha ha ... no no those two models were not my recommendation for you... i was replying to spaceman with two of my dream speakers ... quite expensive though so I would have a very hard time justifying them a this point in time


Adam audio does have some high quality budget studio monitors though: their F series or a step up the A series

Btw you in the States or Europe? the M-audio Bx series are quite cheap in the EU (one of those very rare instances where it's cheaper here rather than the US)

 

[M76]

I'm in Europe. Don't tell me, I'm always frustrated by the prices. It's not often when something is better priced here.

 

[Neutrino]

I'm in Europe. Don't tell me, I'm always frustrated by the prices. It's not often when something is better priced here.

hehe ... I feel your pain

anyway for reference here is a fairly large site from the Netherlands:

some examples of what you could buy on a strict budget:

http://www.bax-shop.nl/dj-studio-monitor/m-audio-bx5-d2-dj-monitor-set-van-2-devine-mon-pad

for 160 EUR a pair of M-audio Bx5 d2 will sound quite good

here is a review:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb12/articles/m-audio-bx5-d2.htm

For this price I don't think you can do any better unless you buy used. They have a matched sub you can add later if you want

 

[M76]

They replaced the speakers, I hope these last longer.

 

[M76]

And the second set dies today. When if not on a friday evening, so I can't even return it until next week?

Either I'm extremely unlucky, or this is the crappiest product I've ever seen. It clearly has no protection circuitry for the Amplifier, and as I plug it into the sound card it touches the ground, and puff, there goes the amp. And ofc it was turned off when I plugged it in.

 

[B00nie]

Cancel the deal if you can and get the JBL LSR305:s or 308:s instead.

 

[Neutrino]

Yeah ... clearly it's time to switch to a reputable brand.


What would be your budget?

edit: Just found a video showing you some budget studio monitors:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKzOeK7KE-A

 

[Bluesun311]

Thread makes me mad on OPs behalf. Find it amazing these companies are making powered speakers without really trying very hard at anything but making profit. That's why I said screw it I'll double my budget. We may have differing ideas of what a reasonable price to pay for a good setup is, but as long as they have the speakers and I just have money they get to say what they are worth. In the end, I'm happy paying 500$ to get what I wanted, but it was more than twice the price of what is call a "bargain". Bargains and HQ audio rarely go together. If they do it certainly won't be in the convenient "PC speaker" arena. It will usually be passive monitors and an amp. Usually you pay more for the convenience of integrated PC audio systems.

 

[reaper12]

And the second set dies today. When if not on a friday evening, so I can't even return it until next week?

Either I'm extremely unlucky, or this is the crappiest product I've ever seen. It clearly has no protection circuitry for the Amplifier, and as I plug it into the sound card it touches the ground, and puff, there goes the amp. And ofc it was turned off when I plugged it in.

Very unlucky. Two speakers in a row to go like that.

If you are in Europe, try Microlab speakers. Great audio at a good price and really good build quality. The solo range is what you would be looking at.

 

[Neutrino]

Bargains and HQ audio rarely go together. If they do it certainly won't be in the convenient "PC speaker" arena. It will usually be passive monitors and an amp. Usually you pay more for the convenience of integrated PC audio systems.

I think we all agree on what we regularly label as "PC speakers" being garbage. But I do not think you can match the bang for the buck of active studio monitors for a typical PC nearfield application.


Just look at the previously mentioned JBLs, or the coax Equator D5, or the vtx KRKs, budget Adams or Genelecs ... there is so much choice

 

[Bluesun311]

I think we all agree on what we regularly label as "PC speakers" being garbage. But I do not think you can match the bang for the buck of active studio monitors for a typical PC nearfield application.


Just look at the previously mentioned JBLs, or the coax Equator D5, or the vtx KRKs, budget Adams or Genelecs ... there is so much choice

There's a lot of choice because there's a lot of profit to be made. Everyone wants in. As for active vs. passive being better "bang for your buck" it will depend almost entirely on the quality of components in either case. Active monitors on the cheap end of the spectrum tend to be beaten in performance by a corresponding passive set matched with a separate amplifier. Why? You pay extra for convenience and integration but you don't get to pick the amplifier on the active set. Active crossovers are more complex than passive and offer very little tangible benefit. Then the active set is generally limited in upgrade path, as well.

Passive or active setups can both win the day but cheaper, quality products and, in general, *more choice* come with passive speakers.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan06/articles/qa0106_7.htm

 

[B00nie]

There's a lot of choice because there's a lot of profit to be made. Everyone wants in. As for active vs. passive being better "bang for your buck" it will depend almost entirely on the quality of components in either case. Active monitors on the cheap end of the spectrum tend to be beaten in performance by a corresponding passive set matched with a separate amplifier. Why? You pay extra for convenience and integration but you don't get to pick the amplifier on the active set. Active crossovers are more complex than passive and offer very little tangible benefit. Then the active set is generally limited in upgrade path, as well.

Passive or active setups can both win the day but cheaper, quality products and, in general, *more choice* come with passive speakers.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan06/articles/qa0106_7.htm

Near field speakers are predominantly active since passive crossovers suck.

 

[M76]

As a temporary solution I'm using a micro hifi system This one
The curious thing is that I had a noise issue which was present with my old Creative speakers and with these too, but it's completely non-existent with the Philips micro system. And that thing costed about $200 when it was new. How can this be?

 

[Bluesun311]

Near field speakers are predominantly active since passive crossovers suck.

I'm sure you're right, Iceman! You usually are. I can't help but think of the giant passive crossover modules you see with say, the 3 way Utopia set, which the crossovers themselves are works of art. I recognize that damping is important to you speaker designer types but I suspect those crossovers don't suck--they just have their own special signature that no one could fully predict ahead of time.

But we were talking about low end products here... indeed the nearfield monitors I ended up with are active, bi-amplified and use active crossovers but they weren't as cheap as I was hoping for. If we're trying to get away for $250 out the door it *might* be better to spend almost all of that on passive speakers that can be reused in a larger setup later and get a used amp off eBay or something like that. Isn't that a pretty normal way to go? The $250 set of "high-end" active speakers the OP got didn't turn out so high end.

 

[Neutrino]

There's a lot of choice because there's a lot of profit to be made. Everyone wants in. As for active vs. passive being better "bang for your buck" it will depend almost entirely on the quality of components in either case. Active monitors on the cheap end of the spectrum tend to be beaten in performance by a corresponding passive set matched with a separate amplifier. Why? You pay extra for convenience and integration but you don't get to pick the amplifier on the active set. Active crossovers are more complex than passive and offer very little tangible benefit. Then the active set is generally limited in upgrade path, as well.

Passive or active setups can both win the day but cheaper, quality products and, in general, *more choice* come with passive speakers.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan06/articles/qa0106_7.htm

Could you please then post some examples of amp+passives that for the same price will beat budget active monitors

I gave examples: Adam F5s, equator D5 etc .... other people mentioned the JBLs

Also perhaps that article was right but look at the date ... 8 years old ... lots of good budget models are now on the market

Active crossovers are more complex than passive and offer very little tangible benefit.

sorry but you are quite wrong on this one:
http://www.genelec-ht.com/learning-center/technology-tutorials/active-passive/

Any cost and design complications in systems using active crossovers are offset by the following gains:

• The frequency response becomes independent of any dynamic changes in the driver's electrical characteristics or the drive level.
• There is an increased flexibility and precision to adjust and fine tune each output frequency response for the specific drivers used.
• Each driver has its own signal processing and power amplifier. This isolates each driver from the drive signals handled by the other drivers, reducing inter-modulation distortion and overdriving problems.
• The ability to compensate for sensitivity variations between drivers.
• The possibility to compensate for the frequency and phase response anomalies associated with a driver’s characteristics within the intended pass-band.
• The power amplifiers are directly connected to the speaker drivers, maximizing the control exerted by power amplifier damping on the driver’s voice coil, reducing the consequences of dynamic changes in the driver electrical characteristics. This may improve the transient response of the system.
• There is a reduction in the power amplifier output requirement. With no energy lost in the passive crossover filter components, the amplifier power output requirements are reduced considerably (by up to 1/2 in some cases) without any reduction in the acoustic power output of the loudspeaker system. This can reduce costs and increase audio quality and system reliability.

The way i see it passive crossovers are like the Porsche 911 rear engine layout ... yeah if you throw massive engineering at the problem (big ass polar momentum - pun intended) you can compensate for its deficiencies ... but a proper mid engine layout will always be superior

Btw a lot of people use the legendary BW 800 series as an example that passive crossovers are better.

Problem is that BW themselves use an active design in their flagship:
http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/Speakers/Home_Audio/Nautilus/Nautilus.html

As a temporary solution I'm using a micro hifi system This one
The curious thing is that I had a noise issue which was present with my old Creative speakers and with these too, but it's completely non-existent with the Philips micro system. And that thing costed about $200 when it was new. How can this be?

better circuit design in the Phillips probably

 

[TypeO]

Cancel the deal if you can and get the JBL LSR305:s or 308:s instead.

Bought the 308's and have them setup. Absolutely stunning but they are much bigger than I anticipated. I have the room so no worries. Definitely recommend these.

 

[Bluesun311]

Could you please then post some examples of amp+passives that for the same price will beat budget active monitors

I gave examples: Adam F5s, equator D5 etc .... other people mentioned the JBLs

Seriously? You want me to find you a link to a used amp from eBay and some speakers for 200 dollars? Go have a look. What brand of speakers would you like?

Your suggestions are Adam F5- $275 EACH
Equator D5- $400 for the pair
JBL- what? LSR305? 150 EACH

Where's the bass though? These are 5 inch drivers over OPs budget.

Like I said, if we're concerned about getting out the door for $250 active vs passive crossovers are the least of our worries.

You think in 8 years the game has completely changed for active vs passive crossovers? Active makes a lot more sense almost always. But not when you are trying to be economical about things.

 

[Bluesun311]

K. Fine. I'll go cheap passive and get decent results (in theory):

Just to be cheeky let's try to come in under budget-
Behringer 1C-http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-...dio/behringer-1c-studio-monitor-speakers-pair-5 1/2" pair passive monitors--$80 for the pair
And: a used Alesis RA150 studio amplifier.http://m.ebay.com/itm/221493959801?nav=SEARCH More than enough power. $50 ish.

Will this outperform the active monitors talked about? no lol. But it's cheap like Klipsch ProMedia territory without being a popping, no mute relay, integrated accident waiting to happen.

 

[Neutrino]

yeah I was quite serious about posting some actual models ... this is how we can help the OP ... I also do not mind being proven wrong


The problem is that what you posted is used so the comparison is flawed if you were comparing with new active monitors. When did we start talking about used equipment?

Yeah I know that if you are into it you can find amazing deals, we even have a used bargain specialist here: atarione

So far I stand by my statement: Active Monitors offer best bang for the buck in a PC nearfield environment. New!

I don't follow the used market, so i have no idea if used amp+passive is a better deal than used active



Regarding my statement about the article being out of date: Read my post again. I was not saying it's out of date on the passive vs active tech. I was saying that it's possibly out of date regarding finished products. Perhaps in 2006 there were far fewer budget active monitors being offered.

 

[M76]

better circuit design in the Phillips probably

And how do I select active monitors with better circuit design, blind luck?

The JBL speakers might be good but the price is too steep, at $350 a piece. Also they're truly studio monitors, they don't have convenient volume control. So I'd have to get a pre-amp for them, further upping the costs.

A passive + amp setup has crossed my mind, but it's hard to find space for a hifi amp on a computer desk, that's convenient.

 

[Neutrino]

And how do I select active monitors with better circuit design, blind luck?

The JBL speakers might be good but the price is too steep, at $350 a piece. Also they're truly studio monitors, they don't have convenient volume control. So I'd have to get a pre-amp for them, further upping the costs.

A passive + amp setup has crossed my mind, but it's hard to find space for a hifi amp on a computer desk, that's convenient.

Any of the established brands will be fine.

Btw I've noticed quite a few active monitors "hum" but it's a total non issue if you play any sounds through them. On the plus side quite a few have clipping/overload protection combined with properly matched amps so there should be no way to blow them making them quite reliable.

 

[B00nie]

Unfortunately you have to pay at least around 400 bucks a pair for active monitors. The JBLs are not 350 a piece, they're 350 a pair.

If you're not prepared to pay that amount you may as well get logitechs.

I've tried very cheap monitors from Behringer for example, which produces products with a very high price/quality ratio. The 100 dollar pair MS16 was simply horrible. Regret wasting my money on them. They sounded like two small cardboard boxes playing sound. The bass extension was too weak to even play male speech convincingly.

I bought the MS16's because I wanted to have a small, light and powered speaker for our annual trips to Greece. We used to play movies using my lcd projector, projecting on the hotel/villa etc. walls outdoors in the pitch black mediterranean nights (we have almost 24h sunshine during summers in Finland). Every other night was a childrens movie, the other parents movie. The white walls were a great projection surface but the sound was always a problem. I thought the MS16s being monitors, would produce more than enough sound for non-serious movie watching. But when I first unwrapped them it was obvious that they had major problems with bass and when playing outside they sounded simply weak and disappointing. They were only marginally better than my Macbook pro speakers. I didn't bother to bring them back with me after the first trip with them. Even though they were small, they were still large enough to cause trouble and the sound they produced was simply put not worth it.

 

[M76]

Unfortunately you have to pay at least around 400 bucks a pair for active monitors. The JBLs are not 350 a piece, they're 350 a pair.

Here in Hungary they're $350 a piece for the 308, and $250 a piece for the 305, which I don't much fancy anyway.

If you're not prepared to pay that amount you may as well get logitechs.

I'm not aiming for studio quality, only for an upgrade on regular computer speakers. And of course I'm willing to pay $350 for a pair, sadly I can't get the JBLs for that price here.

I've tried very cheap monitors from Behringer for example, which produces products with a very high price/quality ratio. The 100 dollar pair MS16 was simply horrible. Regret wasting my money on them. They sounded like two small cardboard boxes playing sound. The bass extension was too weak to even play male speech convincingly.

As I've said I'm not aiming for very cheap, I'm aiming for less than $400 a pair.

I've found these that would easily fit the budget:

Alesis M1 Active 520 USB
Alesis Elevate 5
Fluid Audio F5
M-Audio BX5 D2
M-Audio Studiophile AV 40 MK2
JBL Control 2PS

I ruled out the JBL since it has a plastic enclosure.

 

[Neutrino]

Here in Hungary they're $350 a piece for the 308, and $250 a piece for the 305, which I don't much fancy anyway.


I'm not aiming for studio quality, only for an upgrade on regular computer speakers. And of course I'm willing to pay $350 for a pair, sadly I can't get the JBLs for that price here.



As I've said I'm not aiming for very cheap, I'm aiming for less than $400 a pair.

I've found these that would easily fit the budget:

Alesis M1 Active 520 USB
Alesis Elevate 5
Fluid Audio F5
M-Audio BX5 D2
M-Audio Studiophile AV 40 MK2
JBL Control 2PS

I ruled out the JBL since it has a plastic enclosure.

IMO the BX5 will do quite nice ... they are obviously not as good as some of the fancy monitors but on a strict budget I think they are quite good. Find a music store (the kind that sells musical instruments like guitars and assorted pro music equipment and listen to them. (bring a well encoded piece of music you know well to test)

I'll look to see what other speakers will fit under 400 (is that eur or usd? - to be precise)

 

[M76]

If it were Euros I'd have used the € sign.

So I'm aiming for under 400 USD. I'll have a hard time justifying even that to others in the family, who buy 10 USD speakers.

And just to further spoil things, we have 27% general VAT here. So anything that's 400 in the US will be 500 here at the least.

 

[B00nie]

Here in Hungary they're $350 a piece for the 308, and $250 a piece for the 305, which I don't much fancy anyway.


I'm not aiming for studio quality, only for an upgrade on regular computer speakers. And of course I'm willing to pay $350 for a pair, sadly I can't get the JBLs for that price here.



As I've said I'm not aiming for very cheap, I'm aiming for less than $400 a pair.

I've found these that would easily fit the budget:

Alesis M1 Active 520 USB
Alesis Elevate 5
Fluid Audio F5
M-Audio BX5 D2
M-Audio Studiophile AV 40 MK2
JBL Control 2PS

I ruled out the JBL since it has a plastic enclosure.

You can get them (305) from Thomann.de for 149€ / piece. What's wrong with the 305? They are the same size with your Alesis M1 for example.

 

[M76]

You can get them (305) from Thomann.de for 149€ / piece. What's wrong with the 305? They are the same size with your Alesis M1 for example.

RMA would be a pain to do if I order from abroad. And because of the shipping and currency conversion involved I could get it for less here.

The only thing wrong with it is that it's two discreet speakers, so I'd need additional hardware to facilitate level control. And I'd be already 10% over budget with the speakers themselves.

But first let's wait until I'm able to RMA the kugel. It's entirely possible that the reseller won't give my money back. The best I can hope for is that I can choose another product that they sell. And none of the mentioned speakers are on that list sadly.

But they do sell these: Audioengine A5+ Of course due to the facts mentioned earlier for over 500 USD