Thinking about this audio upgrade

[Ihaveworms]

Currently I am using a X-fi xtremegamer with some beyerdynamic DT 770 pro 80ohm headphones and I was looking to upgrade with some Christmas money. I have been looking at various headphones at thought the AKG K701s looked pretty nice. I am going to mostly being listening to progressive trance, vocal trance, and electronic along with playing games. I have heard people talking about how these headphones shine with an amp, so I was looking at getting a ASUS Xonar Essence STX with the build in amp as well. I read a review this card and the tester was using the K701s and was quite pleased with the built in amp performance.

What do you all think? Do the AKG K701s go well with what I listen to and do they sound better than my beyerdynamics?

 

[tisb0b]

No and the STX is not enough to drive the K701's properly. If you want to upgrade from the DT770's look at the ultrasone pro900's they can be had for around $350 from ebay.

 

[Ihaveworms]

I don't see how it is not enough to drive the K701s. The impedance isn't that high compared to other headphones. The guy who reviewed the card at overclockers club said the following

With the K 701, at first I thought the onboard headphone amplifier of the soundcard was somewhat lacking, kick drums didn't seem to hit as hard, consonants in vocals weren't as pronounced as when using the M³ amp. However, despite the low impedance (62 &#937 of the K 701, they are notoriously harder to drive than you would suppose. Increasing the gain to High Gain (+12 dB for 64 to 300 &#937 in the HP Advance Setting provided much more dynamism, so much so that I was actually taken aback by the difference.

Also those ultrasones are out of my price range. I am looking at around $250 max.

 

[tisb0b]

I don't see how it is not enough to drive the K701s. The impedance isn't that high compared to other headphones. The guy who reviewed the card at overclockers club said the following


Also those ultrasones are out of my price range. I am looking at around $250 max.

Low impedance does not mean easy to drive and besides the K701's do not work well with the genres you've listed.

 

[EarlKeim]

Are you sure about that? I posed the issue to four different headphone companies, and they all said exactly the opposite of what you are saying. Can you please clarify your statement? I do not say that to be sarcastic, nor daring. Is there something about the inherent design of that brand of headphone that would need something relatively more powerful over dedicated headphone out jacks on ASUS, HTOmega or Creative cards?

If you can justify this, I will investigate it further.

 

[dandragonrage]

62 ohms isn't all that difficult to drive. The STX would be fine. The K701s are not like whatever 25 ohm headphones Denon has.

Earl: It's easier to drive voltage than current (to a point, anyway) and higher impedance headphones are biased more towards voltage than current. They are easier to drive, but you can run out of voltage if your amplifier was not designed with a high enough voltage. It's the same reason why long distance power lines are all high voltage... to cut down on the current (given the same amount of power transfer). Power = current * voltage (P=IV).

 

[tisb0b]

Are you sure about that? I posed the issue to four different headphone companies, and they all said exactly the opposite of what you are saying. Can you please clarify your statement? I do not say that to be sarcastic, nor daring. Is there something about the inherent design of that brand of headphone that would need something relatively more powerful over dedicated headphone out jacks on ASUS, HTOmega or Creative cards?

If you can justify this, I will investigate it further.

Low impedance headphones and low sensitivity headphones like the Denons and AKG's can require more current just because you can get volume out of them does not mean they are being driven properly. My Audeze LCD-2's are only 50ohms and yet require a good amp to be driven properly that can supply plenty of current the difference going from unamped to properly amped is rather large.

62 ohms isn't all that difficult to drive. The STX would be fine. The K701s are not like whatever 25 ohm headphones Denon has.

Like I said above low impedance, low sensitivity headphones require amping. The STX is more geared towards high impedance headphones not low impedance hard to drive headphones that require plenty of current.

 

[BK_201]

I fully agree with tisb0b. Just because it's low impedance doesn't mean it can be driven properly easily. You can ask over at Head-fi and they'll say the same. Even if you amped the K701's with a proper amp, they still do not fit the bill for your listening needs. I also agree with the Ultra 900's

 

[Ihaveworms]

I also agree with the Ultra 900's

Also those ultrasones are out of my price range. I am looking at around $250 max.

What phones would be good then for the type of stuff I listen to? Should I just stick with my DT 770s?

 

[tisb0b]

What phones would be good then for the type of stuff I listen to? Should I just stick with my DT 770s?

The model down from the Pro900's are the Pro750's which can be had for $240 so they would probably be your best bet.

 

[BK_201]

What phones would be good then for the type of stuff I listen to? Should I just stick with my DT 770s?

For trance, Sony's and Ultrasones would be your best bet. The Sony MDR-SA5000's work well and the Beyerdynamic DT770 that you have. You can check out the for sale section on Head-fi and Audiogon for some deals on headphones. Sometimes you get lucky.

 

[tisb0b]

Ultrasone DT990/770.

You seem to have mistaken Ultrasone and Beyerdynamic.

 

[BK_201]

Oops. I did indeed. Fixed. Thanks for pointing that out.

I'd like to add the Audio Technica AD700's.

 

[Ihaveworms]

Well it looks like it may not be worth the investment. I probably will just stick with my DT770s until I have more money to spend on audio. Thanks for the input though.

 

[Shike]

I fully agree with tisb0b. Just because it's low impedance doesn't mean it can be driven properly easily. You can ask over at Head-fi and they'll say the same. Even if you amped the K701's with a proper amp, they still do not fit the bill for your listening needs. I also agree with the Ultra 900's

In all fairness, most of the people at Head-Fi are paranoid fools that know jack about electrical engineering or physics. You still have the nearly extinct voodoo cable believers there in many instances.

AKG states the sensitivity as 105dB/V. As long as you have enough current to accompany one volt at the necessary impedance it should be able to do permanent damage to ones hearing without it (the amp) distorting. At 62 ohms you're looking at 16ma. Skimming the 6120's datasheet (the opamp used), it's capable of 700ma per channel at even minimum voltage supply. As you can see, there's no shortage of current or voltage on this card.

Heck, even a portable amp like the Mini^3 can produce necessary results to power it.

The one thing noticed by Stereophile is that the gain setting does control available voltage. The initial no gain setting doesn't produce enough voltage, so the +12dB setting at least is necessary to prevent clipping distortion.

I also find the "suited to genres" argument bunk. Why does everyone insist on using headphones to fix their music? If the headphones are accurate and the music sounds like crap that should be a neon sign saying "This music sounds like crap" to you. Even if you insist on listening to it though, there's better ways to handle it like using a flat headphone and a parametric EQ.