Thinking about a system refresh....

[Goose]

Hey all,

I have a Q6600 at 2.9Ghz and a Q9550 at 2.8Ghz , that I am thinking about overhauling. They are old systems from '08-'09 and showing their age in programs/games.. And I think I'm ready for something new.

I will be reusing these items:

CoolerMaster 690 case(s)

(1) 750gb hd and (1) 1tb hd, both with win7 64 ultimate, one in each machine. I will not be reformatting if at all possible. So they will go out of one system and into new systems, hopefully without to much issue.

The psu's are both Corsair tx 650's

The cd-roms are also being carried over as well as the monitors that are 1920x1200.

(1) GTX 480 and (1) 8800GT SC will be going back into these systems. Yes, I know that the 8800 will be a bottleneck, but it will be replaced in the coming months. The 480 is a Zotac AMP! so it's pretty quite and nicely powerful but damn power hungry (394watts playing Crysis 2!!) and will be replaced also, later. I know the 8800 is really old but it will be temporary.

Games being played: crysis 2 and 3 when it comes out, borderlands 2, ut2004, mw3, deus ex hr, portal, bioshock etc. Programs used: cs6, maya, 3dsmax, lightroom, mudbox, etc. mostly for my entertainment/family/learning.

I replace/update usually every 3-4 years so I want items that maybe slightly overkill now so in the future they are still somewhat relevant. I have this one budget for both machines and want it done as right as the budget will allow. With the gpu's being secondarily replaced.

Yes I know that Haswell will be out next year, but I'm assuming from what I've read here and elsewhere, that the below build(s) will be a pretty substantial upgrade from what I currently have now...... and give me plenty of legs to just skip Haswell altogether.

So, this is what I'm thinking:

http://www.amazon.com/Intel-i7-3770...&ie=UTF8&qid=1348357415&sr=1-1&keywords=3770k

http://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-Cros...&qid=1348355724&sr=8-1&keywords=gigabyte+ud3h

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231556

http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master...1348361524&sr=8-1&keywords=coolermaster+212++

Does the RAM fit well? It's a little less expensive until 9/24 so I'd like to get it asap if no one has any issues.

I have gigabyte mobo's in both machines now, so I think I'd like to stick with them.

The 3770k is overkill, and I know that the 3570k is less expensive, but I'm still heavily leaning i7. The RAM is overkill as well, but it's fairly cheap for 16gb in each machine.

Any issues/comments?

Can't think of anything else to add so..

thanks

 

[tiraides]

Help us out here by answering the following questions:

- What's your budget?

- RAM aside, how soon do you plan on buying/building everything?

- Are you trying to overhaul both systems? Or are you trying to consolidate everything into one system?

- Where do you live? Do you live near a B&M computer store (e.g. Fry's, Micro Center, Tiger Direct/CompUSA)?

- What percentage of your time do you spend on gaming versus using your other programs?

- Which version(s) of the Cooler Master CM690 case do you have?

- Overclocking?

- Which specific (brand/model) monitor(s) are you reusing? Hard drives?

- Assuming that you could buy/build everything today, when were you planning on purchasing new video cards?

 

[Goose]

- The original version of the CM 690.

- Overhauling both systems

- Purchasing new video cards after December.

- Budget $1000 +/- for both machines

- Planning on buying in the next week or 2.

- No microcenter or frys close, will be Amazon and Newegg

- 50/50 gaming/real work

- Benq v2400w at 1920x1200 (x2)

- WD Black hardrives

** In the US, will likely overclock processor/gpu, features on new mobo listed are fine, don't need a $200+ mobo for any reason.

thanks

 

[tiraides]

Your parts choices, as a whole, look fine. The RAM is very good for the price. However, I recommend buying at least one SATA DVD burner; if you're still using IDE CD-ROMs, replace them both. Fortunately, a good DVD burner shouldn't cost you more than $25.

If your budget is truly a concern, I recommend that you buy the parts you've chosen for only one system (for yourself). For the second (I assume, family) machine, choose parts similar to the following:

$200 - Intel Core i5-3470
$89 - MSI Z77A-G41
$34 - G.Skill Value Series 2x4GB DDR3 1333

You could save a bit more money by buying the processor and motherboard together in a NewEgg combo deal, but again, my suggestions are only if the budget is a concern for both systems.

Performance-wise, I recommend a couple of additional upgrades for the future -- in addition to your planned video card purchase(s). First, you should seriously consider buying a solid-state drive (or SSD) for use as your primary drive. A good SSD like the Samsung 830 loads programs and games much faster than any SATA HDD in the market. The prices for SSDs in general have gone down enough for us to recommend them for anyone building a performance machine like yours. The only caveat is that you may have to buy some sort of 2.5" adapter for mounting the SSD inside your case.

My second recommendation is that you buy new power supplies around the same time that you buy your replacement video cards. All power supplies degrade in quality over time, and their quality degrades faster under heavy use. (Constant gaming with the GTX 480 could count as "heavy use.") Since you replace your parts every three or for years, and you'll never know when to replace the PSU until after bad things start to happen, now's a great time to replace both of them. (Hell, you could buy the TX650 V2 and call it a day.)

 

[Goose]

Tiraides, thanks for the information.

I misspoke about the cd-rom, they are in fact sata dvd burners. Sorry.

The budget has enough room for both computers to have the parts I've listed. I just wanted to make sure they would work well together, and, albeit overkill on some of it, wanted [H]'s opinion on the parts.

I will keep your future upgrades under advisement. Tho, that particular mother board has msata, can't that be used to loads things faster if I decide to get one down the line? Listed on Amazon: " Onboard mSATA slot for mSATA SSDs"

Well, the gtx480 is a new acquisition as of 2 or 3 weeks ago. I got that one free from a friend who upgraded his to a EVGA GTX 690.

So, for the power supplies, the 8800 can't really be testing it and I haven't used the 480 long enough yet for it to become a problem, but I will keep in mind the fact that they should be replaced later.

** Also, before I forget, I do have a Hauppauge pvr 2250. There will be no issues installing that right? I like my tv and radio on my computer.

So, everything looks ok?

thanks

 

[Goose]

bump

 

[Dangman]

Do you have Windows 7 Pro for both PCs?

The only real sticky point is the CPUs: Are both systems really being used for extensive 3D and video editing/rendering?

The TV tuner should work fine. Don't worry about mSATA: It's really not worth it.

 

[tiraides]

Since you already have SATA DVD burners, there's no need for new ones, right?

I still recommend the 2.5" SSDs as the mSATA SSDs can't match them performance-wise.

Regarding power supplies, I'm personally a "better safe than sorry" guy. I still recommend replacing the power supplies given their overall age.

You should be fine with the Hauppauge PVR-2250, but you may have to reinstall the drivers.

 

[Goose]

Do you have Windows 7 Pro for both PCs?

The only real sticky point is the CPUs: Are both systems really being used for extensive 3D and video editing/rendering?

The TV tuner should work fine. Don't worry about mSATA: It's really not worth it.

I'm unplugging the hard drives from the old systems and plugging them into the new ones. Both have win7 64 ultimate.

I know the cpu's are a sticking point, I agree. I know they're more expensive but I think they will be put to good use. I remember you helped me, along with others, build the systems I have now. I upgrade every 3-4 years and just want to make the systems are relevant 4 years from now...

what are the real differences?

Everything else looks good tho? What is a comparable ASUS mobo? Are they of equal quality? I need esata for my external HD.

 

[Goose]

Since you already have SATA DVD burners, there's no need for new ones, right?

I still recommend the 2.5" SSDs as the mSATA SSDs can't match them performance-wise.

Regarding power supplies, I'm personally a "better safe than sorry" guy. I still recommend replacing the power supplies given their overall age.

You should be fine with the Hauppauge PVR-2250, but you may have to reinstall the drivers.

ssd's are not in the budget this time around. I will take the power supply recommendation under advisement.

 

[Dangman]

I'm unplugging the hard drives from the old systems and plugging them into the new ones. Both have win7 64 ultimate.

All right then. I asked that question because Windows 7 Home Premium is artificially limited to 16GB of RAM. As such, you wouldn't be able to use the full 32GB of RAM capability of that mobo.

I know the cpu's are a sticking point, I agree. I know they're more expensive but I think they will be put to good use. I remember you helped me, along with others, build the systems I have now. I upgrade every 3-4 years and just want to make the systems are relevant 4 years from now...

Again, you haven't answered the key question:
Are both systems really being used for extensive 3D and video editing/rendering?

what are the real differences?

Real differences of what?

Everything else looks good tho? What is a comparable ASUS mobo? Are they of equal quality? I need esata for my external HD.

The RAM and HSF are good choices. The CPU is still a sticking point. As for the motherboard, there are better quality and better interface having Asus mobos in that price range but your requirement for eSATA pretty much negates them as viable choices. There are Asus mobos with eSATA but they're fairly overpriced IMO. That Gigabyte is an ok-ish choice due to this HardOCP review:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/06/14/gigabyte_z77xud3h_motherboard_review/1

 

[Goose]

All right then. I asked that question because Windows 7 Home Premium is artificially limited to 16GB of RAM. As such, you wouldn't be able to use the full 32GB of RAM capability of that mobo.

Again, you haven't answered the key question:
Are both systems really being used for extensive 3D and video editing/rendering?

Real differences of what?

The RAM and HSF are good choices. The CPU is still a sticking point. As for the motherboard, there are better quality and better interface having Asus mobos in that price range but your requirement for eSATA pretty much negates them as viable choices. There are Asus mobos with eSATA but they're fairly overpriced IMO. That Gigabyte is an ok-ish choice due to this HardOCP review:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/06/14/gigabyte_z77xud3h_motherboard_review/1

" Are both systems really being used for extensive 3D and video editing/rendering?"

Not extensive, no. Just don't want to be short on power years from now when the differences maybe more useful.

The real differences between the 3570k and 3770k. HT and 2mb more cache?

I did read that review.
What, in your opinion, would be a better mobo in my price range with esata, usb 3, Quality, better interface?

 

[Deleted member 88227]

Well if you aren't using anything that takes advantage of HT now, I doubt you'll take advantage of it years from now. HT has been around for years, since the P4 days. Games still haven't adopted to it to this day, so I don't foresee that changing anytime soon. So unless you use programs that specifically take advantage of the HT of the i7, that extra Cache isn't going to make a bit of difference. Especially in gaming, where most of the time games run better with HT turned off anyway.

So save they money, get a i5 3570k and grab a 128GB SSD with the money left over. You'll see the BIGGEST performance increase with overall system responsiveness with those SSDs than you will with even the fastest CPU in the world. In other words, it will be money WELL spent.

 

[Goose]

Well if you aren't using anything that takes advantage of HT now, I doubt you'll take advantage of it years from now. HT has been around for years, since the P4 days. Games still haven't adopted to it to this day, so I don't foresee that changing anytime soon. So unless you use programs that specifically take advantage of the HT of the i7, that extra Cache isn't going to make a bit of difference. Especially in gaming, where most of the time games run better with HT turned off anyway.

So save they money, get a i5 3570k and grab a 128GB SSD with the money left over. You'll see the BIGGEST performance increase with overall system responsiveness with those SSDs than you will with even the fastest CPU in the world. In other words, it will be money WELL spent.

SSD's are not in the budget right now, but thanks.

 

[Dangman]

SSD's are not in the budget right now, but thanks.

SSDs can be in the budget if you drop the 3770K down to the 3570K. The Crucial m4 128GB can be found for $110, the exact cost difference between the 3770K and 3570K.

In regards to the mobo, that Gigabyte is unfortunately my best recommendation. There are AsRock mobos with similar features and pricing as that Gigabyte but I generally don't recommend AsRock.

 

[tiraides]

SSD's are not in the budget right now, but thanks.

Your ignoring the bigger point: You really haven't justified the "need" for the Hyper-Threading support of the Core i7-3770K.

Your "longevity" excuse doesn't cut it. Neither the Q6600 or the Q9550 had Hyper-Threading yet you were able to use both of them for over three years. None of the programs that you're using need Hyper-Threading to function. In fact, some of those programs perform better with a newer video card (if not a workstation card) than what you currently have.

What Danny Bui, Skillz, and I see is that you have a $1000 budget to overhaul two systems. We are of the same opinion that you don't need two i7-3770Ks for your machines. Now that I've had time to research some of the programs you're using, and after reviewing your responses in this thread, I'm starting to have doubts that you even need one i7-3770K.

 

[Goose]

I did find this:

http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-...d=1348445469&sr=1-1&keywords=esata+to+usb+3.0

a possible work around for my esata wd external HD.

Thought? Maybe a better mobo than the ud3h? Gigabyte ud5h? Asus?

Does displayport need to be on the mobo? Do the 27" monitors have displayport or hdmi? or both? Would like it if the 27" need it for future upgrades.

 

[Goose]

Your ignoring the bigger point: You really haven't justified the "need" for the Hyper-Threading support of the Core i7-3770K.

Your "longevity" excuse doesn't cut it. Neither the Q6600 or the Q9550 had Hyper-Threading yet you were able to use both of them for over three years. None of the programs that you're using need Hyper-Threading to function. In fact, some of those programs perform better with a newer video card (if not a workstation card) than what you currently have.

What Danny Bui, Skillz, and I see is that you have a $1000 budget to overhaul two systems. We are of the same opinion that you don't need two i7-3770Ks for your machines. Now that I've had time to research some of the programs you're using, and after reviewing your responses in this thread, I'm starting to have doubts that you even need one i7-3770K.

I have not ignored anything. And you are right, I just may not need the 3770k. True, neither has HT. I know that. If the only difference is HT and is minimal, than a 3570k is likely the best option.

In the end, I'm looking for help, not an argument.

 

[tiraides]

I have not ignored anything. And you are right, I just may not need the 3770k. True, neither has HT. I know that. If the only difference is HT and is minimal, than a 3570k is likely the best option.

In the end, I'm looking for help, not an argument.

We're not trying to fight with you. We're just offering our opinions and recommendations based on your earlier comments.

I did find this:

http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-...d=1348445469&sr=1-1&keywords=esata+to+usb+3.0

a possible work around for my esata wd external HD.

Thought? Maybe a better mobo than the ud3h? Gigabyte ud5h? Asus?

Does displayport need to be on the mobo? Do the 27" monitors have displayport or hdmi? or both? Would like it if the 27" need it for future upgrades.

I don't know enough about the USB 3.0-to-eSATA adapter cable to recommend it at this time.

Before any more motherboards are recommended, let's confirm what you need from a motherboard. Based on this thread, you need eSATA and decent overclocking features. Anything else?

You lost me on the monitors... which specific brand(s) and model(s) are the monitors you're talking about?

 

[Goose]

We're not trying to fight with you. We're just offering our opinions and recommendations based on your earlier comments.



I don't know enough about the USB 3.0-to-eSATA adapter cable to recommend it at this time.

Before any more motherboards are recommended, let's confirm what you need from a motherboard. Based on this thread, you need eSATA and decent overclocking features. Anything else?

You lost me on the monitors... which specific brand(s) and model(s) are the monitors you're talking about?

Esata, or better yet that adapter so I can consider a board without esata. A motherboard that's an upgrade from what I have.... is that vague enough.

I never said I needed HT. I just want the absolute best within the above budget for 2 overhauls. Short of ssd's right now. If that means 3770k's I'm ok with that, if not, ok. I just don't want to be short of the power in the future If I need it. That's it.

The monitors comment was just an ADHD moment No bearing on the new builds, just wanted to know if I NEED displayport as a option on the new mobo for an Eventual upgrade.

So an upgraded mobo that falls somewhere near the ud3h or equivalent Asus if I can get away without esata and use that cable above. Nothing other than that really, my head hurts.

 

[tiraides]

I'll make things simple for you:

- Stick with the Core i5-3550K.

- For what you need, the Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H is fine. With that board, you don't need to spend $30 extra on an "adapter cable" that few people know about.

- DisplayPort isn't needed. For computer monitors, it's another digital interface similar to DVI or HDMI. If your monitor has DVI or HDMI (if not both), you're solid.

As an aside, I recommend that you consider the possibility of going with my recommendations in post 4 for your second machine. If your family isn't going to use the software that you're using, then you don't really need to build two identical systems.

 

[Deleted member 88227]

I still recommend getting an SSD now that you've saved the money from not needing the i7 3770k. As Danny said, it's only $110 for the Crucial M4 128GB. Transfer your Windows installs to the SSDs, then use those hard drives as secondary drives and I promise you'll see the biggest improvement from the upgrade.

In fact, I would recommend getting the 3570k for just one of the systems, then getting the 3450 for the "family" computer since it doesn't really need that much CPU power.

You also really, really need to upgrade those GPUs; well specifically the 8800. The 480 is a power house all around. Uses a ton of power, produces a ton of heat, but it'll give good performance. That 8800 will be a huge bottle neck and you'll see the biggest improvement in gaming with an upgrade from that.

 

[Goose]

I'll make things simple for you:

- Stick with the Core i5-3550K.

- For what you need, the Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H is fine. With that board, you don't need to spend $30 extra on an "adapter cable" that few people know about.

- DisplayPort isn't needed. For computer monitors, it's another digital interface similar to DVI or HDMI. If your monitor has DVI or HDMI (if not both), you're solid.

As an aside, I recommend that you consider the possibility of going with my recommendations in post 4 for your second machine. If your family isn't going to use the software that you're using, then you don't really need to build two identical systems.

Thanks for the suggestions and the help. I'm going to take a break, and revisit this a little later.

 

[Goose]

Hey all,


I figured I ought to update my thread with the final results.

The builds went as follows: x2

Case: Corsair 600t

CPU: i7 3770K

Mobo: Gigabyte z77x-ud5h

PSU: Seasonic x750

RAM: G.skill Ares 2x8gb at 1600

CPU Cooler: Coolermaster Hyper 212+

DVD: Samsung sata dvd writer

The builds went quite well, machines fired up first time out and have been running well since. These builds will last many, many years into the future and next year, better graphics cards and some good SSD's are planned.

Love the 600t case, lots of room inside and plenty of room for some nice cable management. The front fan will be replaced with some Coolermaster megaflow reds to quite the case down some, and I'm not a huge fan of the white leds. The top 200 will likely be replaced with some Corsair 120/140's, quieter editions. The exhaust fan is a Corsair AF120's and moves alot of air out of the case, much more than my old build.

Almost ready for Crysis 3 and Farcry 3...

Thanks to everyone who chimed in on my thread.