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The Steam Machine is Dead

ChadD said:
From Valve ....
http://steamcommunity.com/app/221410/discussions/0/1696043806550421224/

Valve is still contributing heavily to Linux and open source API development. They are also still working on SteamOS. The last year or so they have been focusing their in house Linux development team on tasks like improving MESA.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Mesa-2018-Q1-Stats
"It's worth pointing out the second and third most active contributors to Mesa are Timothy and Samuel as part of Valve's Linux GPU driver team where they are primarily working on the RadeonSI and RADV drivers."

Saying they are not supporting SteamOS / Machines (ya ok the machines may well be dead) and Linux in general is silly... they are one of the few companies that have in house dedicated code jocks that focus on Linux gaming related stuffs. There are plenty of companies that employee Linux kernel and systems coders to improve Linux all day... there are not a lot that are tasking them with improving open sourced drivers and systems to cater to gamers and game developers. Valve is responsible for pulling Linux gaming forward... and like game development where work started 5 years ago doesn't bear fruit until things ship, a lot of the back end work Valve has done on Vulcan, MESA and core APIs is still working its way forward.
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That's excellent to hear, honestly. We *NEED* Linux to become more mainstream and user-friendly, especially if average users want to protect their identities and data as we go forward.
 
Mazzspeed said:
I was just about to post some communication from Valve themselves but ChadD beat me to it!

Surely no one really thought Steam Machines would gain traction in the market place? Steam Machines were a concept that highlighted Valve's commitment to Linux gaming and what Valve have achieved when it comes to Linux and gaming is nothing short of remarkable. Linux gaming is very much alive and well thanks to Valve and their efforts and there's no doubting that providing the consumer with more options benefits everyone.

I personally hope Linux gaming continues to grow, I'd really like to see a day where PC gaming isn't dominated by Windows and Direct X, I find Vulkan and it's ongoing development as an API very exciting.
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I honestly thought they could make a go with the Steam Machine; but, as I said before, they needed to price the machines to be *competitive* with the consoles. Yes, they'd take a loss initially, but that's exactly how the consoles (and Japanese cars) got their footholds: by taking a loss on the base hardware, and raking it in on the software. Valve should've had cash in the bank to cover those losses, and priced the games such that they made up the difference without having to charge $75 per title.

But... It never happened ... :(
 
Tsumi said:
Steam Machines were a poorly thought out knee-jerk reaction by Gabe to the Windows Store. It was also fueled by a desire for a slice of the console market with the minimal effort possible. But go ahead and spin it however you want. Valve isn't doing Linux development for the good of the community, it's to monopolize the Linux market and combat the "threat" of Windows Store.
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Dovetails nicely with my "Gabe doesn't give a fuck about product anymore" theory.
 
heatlesssun said:
Pierre-Loup, a Linux developer at Valve put this out late last night reaffirming Valve's commitment to SteamOS and Linux: http://steamcommunity.com/app/221410/discussions/0/1696043806550421224/?ctp=1. Good thing for them to do to reassure Linux folks. While Linux gaming has obviously grown a lot, Windows gaming in terms of content has seen its best growth ever. And while the Linux user base is extremely committed and loyal, its still very niche and I think that's one of things that Valve kind of hopped it could do with SteamOS on Steam Machines, make Linux gaming more mainstream. It's difficult enough to get a pre-built system with Linux. When it comes to machines sold as gaming devices it's that much harder.

We'll see where Vulkan goes and how much it does or doesn't spur Linux development. The implications of Vulkan go well beyond desktop Linux gaming, making it easier to port not only to PCs but mobile devices.
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(holy crap, a heatlesssun post that's pro-linux??? I think I'm having a stroke...)
 
Big_Rig_Stig said:
(holy crap, a heatlesssun post that's pro-linux??? I think I'm having a stroke...)
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LOL! I honestly don't see much desktop Linux hate these days, certainly not me. What I hate is when people oversell something. Desktop Linux gaming, sure it's come a long way since Steam support, and if you're a Linux fan and don't want to touch Windows you certainly can game on it. But compared to Windows for gaming it sucks. That's a big reason why Steam Machines failed.

PC gaming is a strength of Windows. I'm not saying that for forever and always that will always be the case and that Valve shouldn't try. What I'm saying if they are really serious they need to try a lot harder. There's no way five years into this that the current results are what they were aiming for.
 
heatlesssun said:
LOL! I honestly don't see much desktop Linux hate these days, certainly not me. What I hate is when people oversell something. Desktop Linux gaming, sure it's come a long way since Steam support, and if you're a Linux fan and don't want to touch Windows you certainly can game on it. But compared to Windows for gaming it sucks. That's a big reason why Steam Machines failed.

PC gaming is a strength of Windows. I'm not saying that for forever and always that will always be the case and that Valve shouldn't try. What I'm saying if they are really serious they need to try a lot harder. There's no way five years into this that the current results are what they were aiming for.
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I'm glad your game for Linux domination. (bad pun sorry)

Really though as we have talked about before. Game development as you very well know is a 3-5 year cycle for AAA titles. The first year or two was getting the traction with developers to do things like Porting somewhat recent engine games. We have been getting the stream of those ports... and no on is arguing the first handful of ports was ruff. The ports the last few years has been better as more of those games are using newer versions of engines that used at least some cross platform code.

Valves work with game developers was always a 5-10 year play because game development takes years to complete. You can't start a game on one engine and 2-3 years in switch. (ok well you can if you ask Chris Roberts or John Romero but it rarely works out). Its the exact reason why even all mighty MS can announce something like DirectX 12 in March 2014 and in April 2018 we have 29 DirectX 12 games. Even I will not call DX12 a complete failure even though 29 games in 4 years is like what 0.00001% of all windows games released right ? I get that with 4-5 year development cycles we aren't going to see a ton of DX12 titles in the first 4-5 years. The next year or two will be the true measure of DX12, even though its already 4 years old.

Valve has taken linux gaming from less then 1000 titles 3 years ago... to over 3000 today. That is a pretty good pace, and a lot of games hitting in the next 1-2 years will be using newer cross platform capable engines and a good number will be running Vulcan which should make official Linux versions easier, not to mention the possibility of simply running the windows compiled versions running vulcan in wine.
 
ChadD said:
Valve has taken linux gaming from less then 1000 titles 3 years ago... to over 3000 today. That is a pretty good pace, and a lot of games hitting in the next 1-2 years will be using newer cross platform capable engines and a good number will be running Vulcan which should make official Linux versions easier, not to mention the possibility of simply running the windows compiled versions running vulcan in wine.
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We'll see. After 5 years we have enough history to see where this tracking. No one is denying that Linux gaming in terms of content is growing but it's still somewhat behind macOS and Windows gaming has taken off. Just since January 1, 2018, Steam has added over 2700 Windows titles compared to 600 for macOS and less than 400 for Linux. That kind of disparity year after year simply isn't favorable to Linux gaming for those who actually want to play games.
 
heatlesssun said:
We'll see. After 5 years we have enough history to see where this tracking. No one is denying that Linux gaming in terms of content is growing but it's still somewhat behind macOS and Windows gaming has taken off. Just since January 1, 2018, Steam has added over 2700 Windows titles compared to 600 for macOS and less than 400 for Linux. That kind of disparity year after year simply isn't favorable to Linux gaming for those who actually want to play games.
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You keep going on about windows "taking off" what do you consider taking off.... game turn ?

Yes new games come out all the time... people stop buying the old ones my friend. Its like the movie industry. No one says look look look the movie industry is "Taking off" because this year they got 2000 brand new movies into theaters. They got 2000 brand new movies into theaters last year as well.

Using steam numbers and claiming look windows gaming is growing is NOT reflective of all of windows or PC gaming. Its reflective of Steam growth.... and yes Steam has grown year over year as more and more users ditch brick and mortar stores. That isn't windows growth its Steam growth. (and even when steam kicks a game for being nothing but a scam they still count those numbers at the end of the year btw lol)

So yes game developers may have added 4 - 6 thousand games per year the last 2-3 years. The point is the Linux releases have went from a few hundred a year to four digits per year in that same span. So instead of looking at 4-5 years of steam sales a time in which the service itself was growing. Look at the last year where 6,000 or so real titles where released for windows... and compare to 1,000 or so Linux titles released in the same time frame. Is it = well no of course it isn't but its a massive jump from next to nothing. We went from less then 1% of games being released with Linux versions to close to 20%.

If that isn't fast enough for you that's cool... but considering game development cycles I think that is pretty darn impressive.
 
ChadD said:
Using steam numbers and claiming look windows gaming is growing is NOT reflective of all of windows or PC gaming. Its reflective of Steam growth.... and yes Steam has grown year over year as more and more users ditch brick and mortar stores. That isn't windows growth its Steam growth.
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Steam is just a digital store and many of its offerings are in other stores. Growth in Windows only titles isn't Steam growth, it's growth in Windows gaming that allows Steam and other stores to offer more Windows games. The same is also true of macOS and Linux but Windows titles grow at a much faster clip. It's Windows game developers driving the content growth, not the stores themselves.

ChadD said:
So yes game developers may have added 4 - 6 thousand games per year the last 2-3 years. The point is the Linux releases have went from a few hundred a year to four digits per year in that same span. So instead of looking at 4-5 years of steam sales a time in which the service itself was growing. Look at the last year where 6,000 or so real titles where released for windows... and compare to 1,000 or so Linux titles released in the same time frame. Is it = well no of course it isn't but its a massive jump from next to nothing. We went from less then 1% of games being released withif y Linux versions to close to 20%.

If that isn't fast enough for you that's cool... but considering game development cycles I think that is pretty darn impressive.
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In a vacuum sure growth in Linux gaming looks great. The question isn't if you or I think the state of Linux gaming is good, it's what the typical PC gamer thinks. Indeed the new title percentage is dropping quite a bit for Linux. Less than 15% of the new titles on Steam this year have Linux versions, that goes up a bit to 16% if you discount VR titles. So all of the growth from a Linux fans perspective only means that from the PC gamers point of view, far more often than not something they want to play won't have a native Linux version. That's simply not good enough.
 
heatlesssun said:
In a vacuum sure growth in Linux gaming looks great. The question isn't if you or I think the state of Linux gaming is good, it's what the typical PC gamer thinks. Indeed the new title percentage is dropping quite a bit for Linux. Less than 15% of the new titles on Steam this year have Linux versions, that goes up a bit to 16% if you discount VR titles. So all of the growth from a Linux fans perspective only means that from the PC gamers point of view, far more often than not something they want to play won't have a native Linux version. That's simply not good enough.
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Wait I think I see the fail in your logic.

How do you think 15% of titles is a drop ???

It was never ever ever higher then that.

Do you really think the 200 or so AA-AAA Linux titles released 4 years ago was higher then 15% of all PC games. LMAO

Linux has went from like 0.0001% 5 years ago to like 2% to like 7% 3 years ago to now 15%.

That is AMAZEBALLS growth. I don't work in the gaming industry but I have worked enough sales jobs over the years to tell you that doubling your market share growth rate every 1-1.5 years is next to impossible. Linux is growing and fast no matter what you want to believe my friend.
 
ChadD said:
That is AMAZEBALLS growth. I don't work in the gaming industry but I have worked enough sales jobs over the years to tell you that doubling your market share growth rate every 1-1.5 years is next to impossible. Linux is growing and fast no matter what you want to believe my friend.
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The new title counts for Windows have spiked starting about 2015 and the gap between Windows grew between macOS and Linux. So for a while that gap was kind of closing and now it's widening. Kind like how the Linux user base for Linux was something like 1.6% in 2014 and then pretty much collapsed.
 

“Steam Machine May Be Delayed After All—Still Shipping in 2026​

by Cpt.Jank Yesterday, 20:28 Discuss (10 Comments)
Valve's announcement of the Steam Machine has generated a lot of excitement amongst PC gamers and apparently more than a little consternation in the ranks of traditional console makers, although the recent announcement that pricing for the upcoming living room PC is delayed due to the RAM shortagehas poured a bit of cold water on things. Adding to that disappointment, Valve recently softened its promise to deliver the Steam Machine and Valve Index in "early 2026" as it had initially promised.

In a recent Steam Year In Review news post, Valve says that "We shared recently that there have been challenges with memory and storage shortages, but we will be shipping all three products this year. More updates will be shared as we finalize our plans." Notably, however, this previously read "We hope to ship in 2026, but as we shared recently, memory and storage shortages have created challenges for us," according to VideoCardz, but the verbiage has since been changed. The Steam Store page for the Steam Machine only lists "coming soon" in the release date section, but it's also curious that Valve seems steadfast in its plans to release the Steam Frame, Machine, and Controller simultaneously, despite the potential delays in delivering the hardware.“
 
I don't really care about the Steam machine (I'm more curious about the Steam Frame), but they could theoretically sell a barebones edition to keep costs down.
 
Cant really blame Valve at all this time. It will be a miracle if it can even be launched over the next year or two and there will be no way it can be priced to be wildly popular because there won't be any way to make enough of them in the first place.
 
If they make it too cheap it's going to get snapped up by businesses and Ai startups, if they make it too expensive it won't sell.

Right now, selling it at cost would probably make it out of reach to their target demographic. There's no way to ship this thing right now without Valve suffering for it.
 
They need to just release the Steam OS general availability .iso already

1772911272611.png
 
kram182 said:
That's for the Steam Deck/ROG ect devices only not general availability/any machine - like a general availability Windows .iso is not the same as a Dell Recovery image/disc

View attachment 790015
View attachment 790017
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It’s the image for the steam deck yes, but hardware requirements are pretty relaxed, just need amd cpu and GPU along withinimal other hardware. YouTube channel ETA Prime has built a new machine the last year with all sorts of configs.

View: https://youtu.be/_U6-R6XtCUQ?si=V2wP0p6T0wqwaO9r

View: https://youtu.be/q_CxcbS5HI8?si=r7GJ2sX3wIRJUDhO
 
yinzerniner said:
It’s the image for the steam deck yes, but hardware requirements are pretty relaxed, just need amd cpu and GPU along withinimal other hardware. YouTube channel ETA Prime has built a new machine the last year with all sorts of configs.
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Again, that's still not a general availability image
 
erek said:

“Steam Machine May Be Delayed After All—Still Shipping in 2026​

by Cpt.Jank Yesterday, 20:28 Discuss (10 Comments)
Valve's announcement of the Steam Machine has generated a lot of excitement amongst PC gamers and apparently more than a little consternation in the ranks of traditional console makers, although the recent announcement that pricing for the upcoming living room PC is delayed due to the RAM shortagehas poured a bit of cold water on things. Adding to that disappointment, Valve recently softened its promise to deliver the Steam Machine and Valve Index in "early 2026" as it had initially promised.

In a recent Steam Year In Review news post, Valve says that "We shared recently that there have been challenges with memory and storage shortages, but we will be shipping all three products this year. More updates will be shared as we finalize our plans." Notably, however, this previously read "We hope to ship in 2026, but as we shared recently, memory and storage shortages have created challenges for us," according to VideoCardz, but the verbiage has since been changed. The Steam Store page for the Steam Machine only lists "coming soon" in the release date section, but it's also curious that Valve seems steadfast in its plans to release the Steam Frame, Machine, and Controller simultaneously, despite the potential delays in delivering the hardware.“
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by 2028 January Microsoft (& AMD) should have their own version of the steam machine — medusa premium soc (4x zen6 + 8x zen6c + 2x zen6lp + AT4 ~ps5 pro)

the window for current version of steam machine closes after that. the whole point of a valve device is to standardize hardware so that software can be optimized for it. maybe fsr4 could extend the life of current steam machine but its 8gb vram makes it DoA vs the 128bit unified lpddr5x of medusa premium / medusa mini halo
 
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To borrow from Steve Jobs: real artists ship.

Valve is in a rough spot with memory prices and tariffs, but this is why you avoid announcing until you're fully committed: there's nothing worse than having to announce delays or price hikes when you could have simply stayed quiet.

This certainly casts doubt on the notion that Valve will somehow conquer the console world. To do that, a company has to have a concrete roadmap for production and sales; Valve doesn't. Nintendo, Sony, and even Microsoft won't be worried at this stage.
 
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