The Raspberry Pi 4 is here

andrewaggb said:
How have you found it? I tried pricing out all the pieces to build a surveillance NAS with it, the nas case, 5a power supply, fans, adapters, etc, and it's getting close to the price a really cheap pc. It's still quite a bit cheaper than a pc, but not as cheap as I'd like for the compromises I'd be making. Unfortunately most of these SBC's don't have sata ports or a case to house 3.5" drives. This rockpro 64 actually does (sorta the sata ports are an adapter)
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I ordered it through https://store.pine64.org/

Prices aren't exactly cost saving but I've found good value with it. For your own project, that's all up to how you want to go about it & how much you want to spend.
 
andrewaggb said:
How have you found it? I tried pricing out all the pieces to build a surveillance NAS with it, the nas case, 5a power supply, fans, adapters, etc, and it's getting close to the price a really cheap pc. It's still quite a bit cheaper than a pc, but not as cheap as I'd like for the compromises I'd be making. Unfortunately most of these SBC's don't have sata ports or a case to house 3.5" drives. This rockpro 64 actually does (sorta the sata ports are an adapter)
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That's where the Jetson shines as it has a well supported GPU on it. I'm setting up Zoneminder on mine to run my cameras and I want to experiment with OpenALPR. If nothing else, Tensorflow should allow for more intelligent Zoneminding! ;)
 
Todd Walter said:
That's where the Jetson shines as it has a well supported GPU on it. I'm setting up Zoneminder on mine to run my cameras and I want to experiment with OpenALPR. If nothing else, Tensorflow should allow for more intelligent Zoneminding! ;)
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I've played with OpenALPR and found their closed source version is way better. I just tried their docker image for a couple weeks and it was very cpu intensive but worked pretty well. The open source version hasn't been worked on in a few years and couldn't detect any of my real life cases.
I have a Jetson TX2 but I haven't used it for much to be honest. I'm curious how it'll run OpenALPR as well.

I'd be interested using the Pine64/SBC for solar powered surveillance trailers - currenlty we use intel nuc's. But Sata is an absolute must. Pine is recommending a 12V 5A adapter, which is 60W. Seems pretty high, I wonder what the actual power draw vs a NUC would be.
 
so is it safe to say that they will release a 8gb variant as well? even though they are only showing the 1gb, 2gb and 4gb variants for per-order?



Source : https://hackaday.com/2019/06/25/is-4gb-the-limit-for-the-raspberry-pi-4/

pi4-8gig-scan.jpg
 
Deltek said:
so is it safe to say that they will release a 8gb variant as well? even though they are only showing the 1gb, 2gb and 4gb variants for per-order?
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I had thought that I'd heard / read something about a 32bit OS, which would provide for a hard 4GB limit, but seeing as nothing they pull their source from is limited to 32bit, an appropriate 64bit spin could be released.
 
I'm pleased to see the upgrades with the Pi 4. It comes at a good time as I've been considering quite a few little projects that may require a SBC with some power.

Notably, I have a couple of older Android (sometimes with LibreELEC launched from SD card instead) TV media boxes that might use an update - one based on AmLogic 905 of some version, another AmLogic 812, and one an old Google Nexus Player (hockey puck design). I have to wonder if the Pi 4 (2GB or 4GB variants) are now more suitable on paper as they now have 802.11AC compliance, full Gigabit ethernet, a better CPU/GPU and in theory hardware x264 / x265 10-bit up to 4K / HDR decoding. This would seem ideal for a media box setup with LibreELEC (or other Kodi based setup. Maybe using Plex/Emby/Jellyfin ), but I see some early comments saying watching streaming video is not "there" yet - way more stuttering than in the hardware suggests - but I hope this is quickly remedied with software updates. For this use they'd be primarily running media tasks (including "heavier" Kodi add-ons and related ), but it would be nice to leave them open to things like emulator support (I wonder what level of emulator can the Pi 4 now handle etc). Some of my other possible tasks include a Pi Hole (ie network wide ad / tracker / junk blocker) and perhaps some home automation/surveillance with OpenHAB + Mycroft etc... but I'd probably test things out first to see how SBC could do running media center tasks as they're likely specifically demanding.

I'm also curious how the Pi 4 stacks up to other SBC in power, power/value ratio, and openness (source, spec etc.) For instance, up until the Pi 4 I was to understand that one of the most powerful SBC of its type was the Pine64 RockPRO64 which, (I think) is fairly open and doesn't rely on many (any?) closed binary blobs. Guess I'll have to see what's out there...
 
andrewaggb said:
I've played with OpenALPR and found their closed source version is way better. I just tried their docker image for a couple weeks and it was very cpu intensive but worked pretty well. The open source version hasn't been worked on in a few years and couldn't detect any of my real life cases.
I have a Jetson TX2 but I haven't used it for much to be honest. I'm curious how it'll run OpenALPR as well.

I'd be interested using the Pine64/SBC for solar powered surveillance trailers - currenlty we use intel nuc's. But Sata is an absolute must. Pine is recommending a 12V 5A adapter, which is 60W. Seems pretty high, I wonder what the actual power draw vs a NUC would be.
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That's disappointing about OpenALPR but not surprising. I know for our TX2 part sorting project it's easier to setup a VPS with TF to train it than do it on-board (which took a week when we tried it!) As far as the power draw, the Jetson can be configured for 5W or 15W operation depending on need; I imagine you can setup the Pine64 the same way.
 
Thanks for all the tips on POE options. I looked for those a couple of years ago and had no luck, now they seem to grow on trees!
 
That's basically what one would use for an NGFF (i.e. pfSense) build. Could also do minor NAS duties as well, with perhaps a mirror of say 4TB 2.5" drives.

But the expense puts it way out of the league of a pi :).

I'm still tempted to get a 4GB unit as a bit of a 'network controller', in order to get some hands-on experience with the ecosystem.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
That's basically what one would use for an NGFF (i.e. pfSense) build. Could also do minor NAS duties as well, with perhaps a mirror of say 4TB 2.5" drives.

But the expense puts it way out of the league of a pi :).

I'm still tempted to get a 4GB unit as a bit of a 'network controller', in order to get some hands-on experience with the ecosystem.
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It was in response to the NVidia Shield which is kind of out of the Pi Price range as well.

Right now I just use a $50 Android TV box which lets me stream from my network, and play local files, so really all I need in that department, but SW is a bit janky.
 
This is very cool. Glad to see they finally dealt with the internal data transfer issues with the USB and Ethernet. I've have an original Pi set up as a little GIT server that works decently well (like a few MB/s transfer rate to and from), but one of these would be a massive speed improvement. I'm tempted but then I'd want to buy the 4GB version just because.
 
Scottw said:
This is very cool. Glad to see they finally dealt with the internal data transfer issues with the USB and Ethernet. I've have an original Pi set up as a little GIT server that works decently well (like a few MB/s transfer rate to and from), but one of these would be a massive speed improvement. I'm tempted but then I'd want to buy the 4GB version just because.
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I don't think the 1GB full size Pi variant is worth it
 
dgz said:
I don't think the 1GB full size Pi variant is worth it
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Why would it not be worth it considering people were buying the previous 1GB Pi for the same price. Some people really need or want to stick to that $35 price point, and for some applications 1GB of RAM is still enough.
 
Cool, but I still can't think of a use case for one of these assuming you already have a desktop and server.
 
acascianelli said:
Why would it not be worth it considering people were buying the previous 1GB Pi for the same price. Some people really need or want to stick to that $35 price point, and for some applications 1GB of RAM is still enough.
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Yea if you aren't using the GUI... the ram is meh for many, many applications.
 
acascianelli said:
Why would it not be worth it considering people were buying the previous 1GB Pi for the same price. Some people really need or want to stick to that $35 price point, and for some applications 1GB of RAM is still enough.
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You're right about the price point but they are marketing it as an entry-level desktop replacement. Raspbian with a GUI takes almost half a gigabyte. There really isn't all that much you can do, in terms of desktop usage, with what's left.
 
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mikeo said:
Cool, but I still can't think of a use case for one of these assuming you already have a desktop and server.
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Really aren't aimed at most people. The intent is more as an embedded computer in a robot, or a DIY smart home control system, or basically any kind of one off project to do something where a full computer is overkill.

My buddy runs his Mame cabinet on a Pi, and it's a fraction of the cost of putting in a real x86 PC.

It really looks like a lot of people still aren't happy that it isn't a fully powered desktop replacement, which is probably completely opposite to the intended usage.
 
Yeah, in theory it could have tons of awesome uses, but seems like no one has written any killer software that runs on it that can't already be done with an old android phone or tablet.
 
Snowdog said:
It really looks like a lot of people still aren't happy that it isn't a fully powered desktop replacement, which is probably completely opposite to the intended usage.
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Honestly, if you had to use it as one, it is. At least at 4GB. I could do everything that I do at work right now on a 4GB Pi 4. I might even enjoy it too- on Windows 10, our Dozer-based APUs with 8GB of RAM can barely run HBSS.
 
mikeo said:
Can you enlighten me with a few cool examples?
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Consider this: the Pi is a full blow computer running actual Linux, while old android phones and tablets are stuck with android and forks. It's you who should enlighten us as to what were you trying to say with:

"Yeah, in theory it could have tons of awesome uses, but seems like no one has written any killer software that runs on it that can't already be done with an old android phone or tablet."
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Snowdog said:
Really aren't aimed at most people. The intent is more as an embedded computer in a robot, or a DIY smart home control system, or basically any kind of one off project to do something where a full computer is overkill.

My buddy runs his Mame cabinet on a Pi, and it's a fraction of the cost of putting in a real x86 PC.

It really looks like a lot of people still aren't happy that it isn't a fully powered desktop replacement, which is probably completely opposite to the intended usage.
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The older I get the more I realize vocal complaining people are just ornary entitled shits and the ones you don't hear from don't have time to moan cause their energy is spent on a actually finding the joy in products.

I think the pi for the price is awesome. And to be honest im super jealous of the young kidsand adults who have access to it now cause it's so cool. Would of loved something like that as a teen.
 
So the other day I was at my parents, about 20 min driving from MC with no traffic & I picked up a 2G Pi 4. Today both Chicago locations are out of all variants except 1G. Glad I scored....

First thing the salesman said was : Oh are you here just for the RPi4 ? These things have been selling like crazy all day.

Pro Tip: If you don't have an extreme use case and are near MC: The Pi3 B+ is $10 cheaper than the Pi4 & both have 1G ram. Just depends if faster cpu, faster nic, and different video outputs & power are what you want.

I also picked up one of these stackable cases and outside of the plastic film being almost impossible to get off the acrylic stacking plastic pieces, it's pretty nice!
 
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mikeo said:
Can you enlighten me with a few cool examples?
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Already did: Robotics, Home Automation, Mame Cabinet.

A couple of Robotics examples:

https://projects.raspberrypi.org/en/projects/build-a-buggy
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/robocod/
https://www.instructables.com/id/Building-robots-with-Raspberry-Pi-and-Python/

When I was a kid I had a 150-in-1 electronics kit from Radio Shack. It had a bunch of electronic components with spring terminals to make projects out of. For instance you could make a transistor radio.

The point wasn't that it was a great transitor radio. The point was to learn about electronics and how a transitor radio works by building one.

As Trentchau says above. Kids today have access to things like the Pi for their learing. It's 1000 times better than my old 150-in-1 electronics kit.


The point of Pi is learning by doing, not having it just be a computer to run some software on.

If you are not interested in learning, then IMO Pi is wasted on you.
 
Snowdog said:
Already did: Robotics, Home Automation, Mame Cabinet.

A couple of Robotics examples:

https://projects.raspberrypi.org/en/projects/build-a-buggy
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/robocod/
https://www.instructables.com/id/Building-robots-with-Raspberry-Pi-and-Python/

When I was a kid I had a 150-in-1 electronics kit from Radio Shack. It had a bunch of electronic components with spring terminals to make projects out of. For instance you could make a transistor radio.

The point wasn't that it was a great transitor radio. The point was to learn about electronics and how a transitor radio works by building one.

As Trentchau says above. Kids today have access to things like the Pi for their learing. It's 1000 times better than my old 150-in-1 electronics kit.


The point of Pi is learning by doing, not having it just be a computer to run some software on.

If you are not interested in learning, then IMO Pi is wasted on you.
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I also love the idea that it is powerful yet limited mostly for its price. Something good for kids to learn also is dealing with performance limits so they appreciate and understand reasons why you would need to move up in performance range.

Snowdog is 100% correct that if a person doesn't want to learn a pi and it's ecosystem, the benifits will be lost to them.

Pis are great for the joy of discovery of how things work. Pcs ares arguably the same. Macs are for less discovery and more hand holding and just working as intended. Ironically the less control you have the higher the price of admission. Kinda hilarious imho.
 
Snowdog said:
Already did: Robotics, Home Automation, Mame Cabinet.

A couple of Robotics examples:

https://projects.raspberrypi.org/en/projects/build-a-buggy
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/robocod/
https://www.instructables.com/id/Building-robots-with-Raspberry-Pi-and-Python/
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Those were pretty cool, most of the top lists I had seen before were articles trying to say how awesome it was to use as a desktop or server which a mini-itx build would be way faster and more fun to build into a small custom case.

Streaming sticks kind of made it obsolete for that use as they are cheaper, perform better at their use, and the interface isn't terrible, and most modern tvs have this functionality built in now.

If I was more into emulators I'd just boot up an old x86 based itx HTPC from 10 years ago that still has way more power than these, or run an hdmi cable from another more powerful pc. The smaller pi based emulators were pretty cool. Portable computer.... Samsung Dex?

I'm not trying to troll anyone, i want to buy one but I can't think of anything to build with it that would actually be useful to me that can't already be done way easier / cheaper via other means (I don't have kids or would have one already for learning during the build process).

Maybe an http://ispresso.net/ or one of these:
https://alonsoarteaga.me/raspberry-pi-temp-sensors-and-elasticsearch-2/

The IoT kind of ruined a lot of the use cases, at one point it was cheaper to build a pi based wifi lightbulb switch, not the case anymore.
 
mikeo said:
Those were pretty cool, most of the top lists I had seen before were articles trying to say how awesome it was to use as a desktop or server which a mini-itx build would be way faster and more fun to build into a small custom case.

Streaming sticks kind of made it obsolete for that use as they are cheaper, perform better at their use, and the interface isn't terrible, and most modern tvs have this functionality built in now.

If I was more into emulators I'd just boot up an old x86 based itx HTPC from 10 years ago that still has way more power than these, or run an hdmi cable from another more powerful pc. The smaller pi based emulators were pretty cool. Portable computer.... Samsung Dex?

I'm not trying to troll anyone, i want to buy one but I can't think of anything to build with it that would actually be useful to me that can't already be done way easier / cheaper via other means (I don't have kids or would have one already for learning during the build process).

Maybe an http://ispresso.net/ or one of these:
https://alonsoarteaga.me/raspberry-pi-temp-sensors-and-elasticsearch-2/

The IoT kind of ruined a lot of the use cases, at one point it was cheaper to build a pi based wifi lightbulb switch, not the case anymore.
Click to expand...

As I said later in the post. Pi is about learning associated technology by doing. If you aren't interested in learning the technology, it isn't for you.
 
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mikeo said:
Those were pretty cool, most of the top lists I had seen before were articles trying to say how awesome it was to use as a desktop or server which a mini-itx build would be way faster and more fun to build into a small custom case.

Streaming sticks kind of made it obsolete for that use as they are cheaper, perform better at their use, and the interface isn't terrible, and most modern tvs have this functionality built in now.

If I was more into emulators I'd just boot up an old x86 based itx HTPC from 10 years ago that still has way more power than these, or run an hdmi cable from another more powerful pc. The smaller pi based emulators were pretty cool. Portable computer.... Samsung Dex?

I'm not trying to troll anyone, i want to buy one but I can't think of anything to build with it that would actually be useful to me that can't already be done way easier / cheaper via other means (I don't have kids or would have one already for learning during the build process).

Maybe an http://ispresso.net/ or one of these:
https://alonsoarteaga.me/raspberry-pi-temp-sensors-and-elasticsearch-2/

The IoT kind of ruined a lot of the use cases, at one point it was cheaper to build a pi based wifi lightbulb switch, not the case anymore.
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Smart mirrors are pretty cool as a fun project. If you would like a random suggestion.

To be honest at $35 for a price of entry, it's easy just to putz about with it on a rainy day and get your monies worth. Just throw shitty ideas until one sticks and by then if you spend even a few quality hours on a pi then it's worth the price of play. Hell get a $20 pi 3and it's an incredible bang for the buck.

If I had one as a kid I probably would of learned how to program a jrpg that would run on it. But then again a pi 4 is basically a shit ton more powerful then all of my game consoles combined ever purchased before 2000. And I had a shit ton of various consoles.
 
Running pihole is a great start. Then, running network monitoring stuff and the like can get interesting. That's where I plan to start when the 4GB unit is available.
 
why wouldn't anyone buy 4gb version unless it was a commercial deployment of many unit for specific task
 
mrpickem said:
why wouldn't anyone buy 4gb version unless it was a commercial deployment of many unit for specific task
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They want to it for actual learning projects controlling things, instead of just running it as a general purpose computer.

Almost no actual projects where you use the Pi to control something really requires much memory.

It is basically using it as desktop computer that requires the memory.
 
cjcox said:
Can you imagine... a beowulf cluster of these.

(all people under the age of 35 just said, "What?")
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I had four of the original model Raspberry Pi units running in a Beowulf cluster with MPICH and Apache Hadoop circa late 2013.
Worked well for the processing power (ARM11) and memory (512MB) that they offered at the time - really amazing that a single Pi 2 could out-perform that cluster, and now a single Pi 4 can out-perform a cluster of Pi 2 units!
 
Besides building a Pi 4 based media box (Kodi / LibreELEC), there are a handful of other projects that split the difference between "full on PC use" and "very limited maker use".

One of the most popular that will benefit from this upgrade is Pi-Hole ( https://pi-hole.net/ ) a network wide ad/tracker blocking service.

There is also OpenHAB ( https://www.openhab.org/ ) a full featured home automation kit that takes it out of the cloud and puts it under your control, with utilities from many vendors all working together.

For those interested in an open source, privacy respecting alternative to Google Assistant, Siri, or Alexa, Mycroft ( https://mycroft.ai/ ) is developing along in quite an impressive way and has a ready-made image for Pi devices!

In addition, almost all of the self-hosting capable, privacy related, open source utilities (ie Roundcube for mail, XMPP or Matrix servers ) and federated "Fediverse" social networks like Mastodon, Friendica, Diaspora, PixelFed, PeerTube ( more info on their homepages as well as https://fediverse.party/ ) have ready made Pi / common SBC builds for those who want to host their own node.
 
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