PC Gaming will never die. Some of you say that because a good gaming computer can be built for around 1000$ and each console is 150$, people will automatically switch over to consoles. However, games like Halo 2, GTA3, and Metroid Prime start out for only one console and stay that way for a while. To get the versatility of the PC, you must buy all three consoles which adds up to about half of what a good computer can cost. Also, on a computer, you can do much more than just play games. If the console market continues to stay hot, other companies may look towards it as a means to make money. If this happens, the good games will become even more spread out and you will have to pay even more to be able to play them all.
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The PC is Dead?... Long live the Console!?!
- Thread starter Kong
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Requiem has a good point... The total cost is not as simple as most people make them out to be... What may happen (imo) is that new and casual gamers will always obviously gravitate to consoles so they'll receive a bigger boost as the industry grows. Doesn't mean PC gaming instantly dies, there's always cycles and the PC being on the edge of technology bounces back as a platform with something that consoles can't quite do.
Personally I think PC gaming is just getting started. Theres no chance in hell that it is going away anytime soon. I also disagree that the gap between PC and Consoles have narowwed greatly, they have narrowed, greatly I think not. The downfall of the console system is that its stuck the way it is, you can't upgrade the main hardware, ie Proc, Ram, video card. Where as PC can always be on the bleeding edge of graphics, because the hardware changes so rapidly where as a console is stuck the way it is for 2-4 years, before you have to buy a whole new system that cost 300+ dollars. Now PCs are obviously way more expensive, but you can hold on to one for around 4 years with some upgrades here and there, maybe longer. And certain games are better on PC, like FPS, I can't play a FPS game with out a keyboard and mouse. The MMORPG is better on PC hands down. As long as theres people making PC games, it won't die. I find more and more people play PC games than say 5 years ago. If anything the PC gaming community is getting larger. I think this is just the tip of the ice berg, i believe we will see amazing things out of the PC for a long time to come.
There's more and more people growing up around computers as well, these people may not be experts but they aren't afraid of a video card swap or whatnot. This number of people may be lesser than the number of peoples gaining interest in video games but it contributes to keeping both PC and console gaming afloat.
RancidWAnnaRIot
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pistola said:
I've actually started playing more PC games in the past 3 years... i sitll play console.. but not soley anymore..
Welcome to the 90's...
Have you seen how many PC's are out there now? I'm sure there's no money to be made by developing games for them, since people can buy consoles.. Show me when there isn't a huge exploitable install base for PC's and that's when PC games will be dead.
Have you seen how many PC's are out there now? I'm sure there's no money to be made by developing games for them, since people can buy consoles.. Show me when there isn't a huge exploitable install base for PC's and that's when PC games will be dead.
WickedAngel
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The majority of gamers simply do not care about being able to upgrade their hardware. They just want something that plays games.
By the way, where in the hell did you come up with 2-4 years? 4-5 years is more like it. The PS2 came out in 2000, the Xbox and Gamecube in 2001. A successor to any of them won't be released until, at the earliest, 2005 (2006 is more likely, since none of the next-gen consoles have even been shown yet).
And as for your comments on bleeding-edge...if you're going for the bleeding edge of graphics, you're going to spend far more money than even the average PC consumer, let alone console gamers. I'm talking $400-500 for a videocard here. That's ONE piece of hardware. Then you have high-performance RAM and a fast CPU to worry about. Granted, PC's do more than consoles, but you don't buy a $500 card to run Word; you buy it to run videogames.
That "exploitable" install base is already being exploited by broadband internet companies, which is why piracy has and will continue to grow worse. Half-Life 2 was cracked within a day and it supposedly has one of the most sophisticated anti-piracy measures to be seen in a videogame. There will be plenty of PC gamers to go around; whether or not they buy the software they're using is the question.
WickedAngel
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You've got to be kidding. I hope you're not implying that software piracy is even remotely as bad for consoles as it is with the PC.
I don't know what the future will be, must just wait and see, but as to HL2 being pirated, it valve actually put the pirated version on bittorrent to track people who are doing it, and busting them and banning thier accounts, so piracy is slowly coming to a stop, but the best way to just avoid it is not participate in any illegal activities in the first place I bought HL2 for the full retail price of 80$, and will continue to show my support to devs, but right now I just need sleep... so goodnight.
WickedAngel
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You honestly believe that bullshit about them leaking their own game?
1. Bittorrent is in no way associated with Steam. They couldn't "ban" an account because something was downloaded via Bittorrent because they wouldn't know whose account it was.
2. The leak was reportedly a Steam-emulator, requiring no authentication whatsoever. Yet again, how would they ban an account if they didn't know whose it was?
1. Bittorrent is in no way associated with Steam. They couldn't "ban" an account because something was downloaded via Bittorrent because they wouldn't know whose account it was.
2. The leak was reportedly a Steam-emulator, requiring no authentication whatsoever. Yet again, how would they ban an account if they didn't know whose it was?
First off, I'm not flaming anyone here, just voicing my opinion.
This is one of the STUPIDEST arguments ever.
In 5 years there will be no such thing as a "console". They will be proprietary HTPC's. The Xbox is the first of the kind.
People for some reason seem to have a hard time connecting the similarities between current consoles and PC's. Can no one see that console makers are currently doing everything in their power to make them more like PC's? Not just componet wise, but functionality wise. Pretty soon they will be the same damned thing. And when all the hardware is PC based, how hard will it be for game designers to make one game for every "console"? They will have to throw a little code to make the game run on one box and not the other, but porting games will be nothing then. The only differences will be that Microsoft will buy certain games, and Sony will buy certain games, (i.e. Halo and GTA).
I really see the market going this way. And also think it's a waste of time to debate which one is better, as they are really the same.
/rant
Don't say I didn't warn you.
This is one of the STUPIDEST arguments ever.
In 5 years there will be no such thing as a "console". They will be proprietary HTPC's. The Xbox is the first of the kind.
People for some reason seem to have a hard time connecting the similarities between current consoles and PC's. Can no one see that console makers are currently doing everything in their power to make them more like PC's? Not just componet wise, but functionality wise. Pretty soon they will be the same damned thing. And when all the hardware is PC based, how hard will it be for game designers to make one game for every "console"? They will have to throw a little code to make the game run on one box and not the other, but porting games will be nothing then. The only differences will be that Microsoft will buy certain games, and Sony will buy certain games, (i.e. Halo and GTA).
I really see the market going this way. And also think it's a waste of time to debate which one is better, as they are really the same.
/rant
Don't say I didn't warn you.
retardedchicken said:
Totally agree with what you are saying. I mean, if it were as easy to plug and play like a console as it is to keep up a decent gaming machine, everyone would be doing the computer gig. It takes a certain amount of knowledge and discipline, which comes with smart upgrading / over-hauls to play the latest games. People simply don't want to take the time... or have the money to invest in something like PC gaming.
Regards,
Pal
bboynitrous
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wickfut said:i actually prefare console games , i find it more comfy sitting on the couch , viewing on a large screen tv with a joystick in my hand and having to worry about 8 buttons instead of being perched on a desk with a full keyboard/mouse arrangement.
the only reason i have moved onto pc's is because the xbox is starting to show its age , the games dont give me what i want anymore and the pc does at this moment.
when the new consoles come out , the pc will be playing catchup again with the games and i will swiftly leave my pc behind and go back to my comfy couch and large screen
The funny part is, that the PC doesn't actually play catchup. Yours may, but the console may just equal the graphics. The PC will always be a step ahead because of the upgradeablity. I like the PC games because they've always had more buttons and allowed more options. I can get immersed more. I quit console gaming around 1997 with my first and last playstation and haven't looked back, plus, there hasn't been any real games that i've been interested in that has been console only.
WickedAngel said:
Its close, hence the downfall of the dreamcast. And Xbox game piracy is pretty bad from what I seen. (litterally with my own 2 eyes, ive seen a few dozen people that I know with "hacked" xboxes that play copied games and have games installed on the harddrive)
RancidWAnnaRIot
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Sizer said:Fuck consoles and PCs, give me my arcades back
LOL!!!!
lithium726
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pistola said:
the downfall of dreamcast wasnt piracy as i understand it, it was that sega was terrible at maketing it, and hence, no one bought it (cept for my and my friends.. i <3 teh dreamcast..)
Actually, that's almost exactly what I said.Shane said:
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1026900182&postcount=54
Kevin Lowe
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Yeah, I think you guys are right in that the future is in cross-platform frameworks for game development, such as Renderware. That way, you develop one set of levels and art assets that you can scale down as needed, write the game code once, and then port your changes to the engine code for each platform you want to release on.
However, if I can hook one of those 3 core PPCs with an R500 up to my HDTV and surround-sound system, something tells me I won't be gaming on my desktop nearly as much.
However, if I can hook one of those 3 core PPCs with an R500 up to my HDTV and surround-sound system, something tells me I won't be gaming on my desktop nearly as much.
You can hook up a PC (or HTPC) just as well to an HDTV with the proper hardware (DVI port would probably offer the best quality, many HDTVs have 'em)...
As for the Dreamcast, I dunno... I think all Sega consoles were doomed from the get-go, they had a huge monkey on their back regarding that and with Sony and later MS looming on the horizon there was just too many players in the field. I still love Sega, dunno what they've been developing lately (they had free reign to develop on any platform since they went software-only) but I'm sure they'll find another niche.
They were pretty instrumental in the history of videogaming imo, back when the main image of consoles was still Mario Sega started an edgy (for the time) marketing campine... Anyone who was around back then probably remembers those ads (the ones that ended with the quick grunt-like "SEGA!"). I didn't own that many DC titles, one japanese fighting game (couldn't wait 'till they ported it), Crazy Taxi and uhh... I forget.
As for the Dreamcast, I dunno... I think all Sega consoles were doomed from the get-go, they had a huge monkey on their back regarding that and with Sony and later MS looming on the horizon there was just too many players in the field. I still love Sega, dunno what they've been developing lately (they had free reign to develop on any platform since they went software-only) but I'm sure they'll find another niche.
They were pretty instrumental in the history of videogaming imo, back when the main image of consoles was still Mario Sega started an edgy (for the time) marketing campine... Anyone who was around back then probably remembers those ads (the ones that ended with the quick grunt-like "SEGA!"). I didn't own that many DC titles, one japanese fighting game (couldn't wait 'till they ported it), Crazy Taxi and uhh... I forget.
I agee that PC gaming is in a decline. I think it has been for years now. One only needs to look at Half-Life 2 and Doom 3 to see it. Let's examine some problems in PC gaming. First off, delays are becoming so long it's runing games. Half-Life 2 looks ancient graphically. Ugly textures, low polygon counts. Its age shows. Not only that, it built up the expectations so high, that the game never come close to achieving them. Then there are bugs. These things rarely exsist in large numbers on consoles. Half-Life 2 is constantly crashing, giving me graphical errors, or making my sound skip. And this is the pinnacle? I remember PC gaming where constant patches weren't the norm. You made a good product in the first place, not ship it and hope to fix it later. It's getting to the point where main features don't even make into games for release. This turns off a lot fo people.
So what do consoles offer? For one thing, the games are consistantly more entertaining. I had a lot more fun playing on my Xbox than I do on my PC. There have been maybe a handful of decent games to come out for the PC in the last few months. The most anticipated titles have been mediocre at best. The number of really good Xbox games I've played is much higher in that same time period. I know people harp on the graphics. Well, maybe it's just me, but I don't get blown away by most PC games graphically anymore. I think FarCry was the last time I was impressed. Otherwise, it takes more than some nice graphics to hold a gamer's interest today. I think PC developers have completely written off gameplay. Look at the top titles. Most are better for benchmarking than playing. Even online gaming is becoming the console's domain. There's no need to rent expensive servers to play with your buddies if you look at the Live model.
PC games dead? Not yet, but the path is set.
So what do consoles offer? For one thing, the games are consistantly more entertaining. I had a lot more fun playing on my Xbox than I do on my PC. There have been maybe a handful of decent games to come out for the PC in the last few months. The most anticipated titles have been mediocre at best. The number of really good Xbox games I've played is much higher in that same time period. I know people harp on the graphics. Well, maybe it's just me, but I don't get blown away by most PC games graphically anymore. I think FarCry was the last time I was impressed. Otherwise, it takes more than some nice graphics to hold a gamer's interest today. I think PC developers have completely written off gameplay. Look at the top titles. Most are better for benchmarking than playing. Even online gaming is becoming the console's domain. There's no need to rent expensive servers to play with your buddies if you look at the Live model.
PC games dead? Not yet, but the path is set.
I think you're vastly overstating HL2's few shortcomings but that's your own opinion and no one can fault you for it... This prediction has been made a million times before and it's never come true though, PC sales are still rising. Regarding MP games... When a console can do something like DAOC's PvP (hah!) or WoW or when they can run multiplayer bouts of simple FPS games as well as a PC then they'll be a threat, but that day hasn't come. Just look at the limitations of SW: BF on PS2 versus the PC or even Xbox.
WickedAngel
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By the way, MMORPGs simply aren't suitable for consoles. Not because they aren't possible (True Fantasy Online was quite good, but few people will ever know it because of their limited beta testing). It isn't profitable. It takes years for an MMORPG to generate profit. That could easily equate to half of a console generation. Time would be better spent on other games.
By the way, FFXI is doing quite fine on the PS2, and has been since it was released in Japan.
Piracy had nothing to do with the fall of the Dreamcast. Sega was finished from the start (Long before anyone realized the GD-ROM could be copied). The system launches were bad in both major territories, and they had an abysmal marketing campaign. Factor in the immense hype of the PS2 and you've got a dead system.
Xbox piracy is still far from mainstream. Big-name Xbox titles still consistantly go platinum (I'm not sure what number Halo 2 is at now, but I know it's in the millions.
Comparing console piracy to PC piracy is the perfect example of "apples to oranges". There is no comparison.
By the way, FFXI is doing quite fine on the PS2, and has been since it was released in Japan.
Piracy had nothing to do with the fall of the Dreamcast. Sega was finished from the start (Long before anyone realized the GD-ROM could be copied). The system launches were bad in both major territories, and they had an abysmal marketing campaign. Factor in the immense hype of the PS2 and you've got a dead system.
Xbox piracy is still far from mainstream. Big-name Xbox titles still consistantly go platinum (I'm not sure what number Halo 2 is at now, but I know it's in the millions.
Comparing console piracy to PC piracy is the perfect example of "apples to oranges". There is no comparison.
Circuitbreaker8
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WickedAngel said:
The number of people who play MMORPG's are pretty slim when you look at gamers in general.
superthrawn
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S1nF1xx said:Actually, that's almost exactly what I said.
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1026900182&postcount=54
S1, You've managed to hit my ideas right on the head. I've got a couple of rebuttals to the idea that PC Gaming is dead:
1. The argument of the fact that Game Devs have to create for only one system when it comes to consoles, yet multiple system configs when it comes to PC.
If you've read up on the Xbox2 lately, you'd find that it will be released with no less than *3* different iterations, all of which have different specs, including one that doesn't have a hard drive. The ramifications of this are endless, including the fact that Console game devs are going to have to figure out how to code save systems differently, even though they're deving for the same console. The argument has been raised that many future Consoles will be simple Home Theatre PCs, and this is a very true statement. Again, if you've been keeping up, one of the versions of the XB2 is planned to be a simple HTPC.
2. It's simply easier for people to game on consoles.
Perhaps this is true *today*, but it will not be in the future. When Microsoft announced their proprietary XNA technology, they took a huge step forward in becoming the leading developer in gaming. Essentially, for the uninitiated, XNA allows a unified programming code that will work on Both Xbox and PC, allowing gamers on both platforms to find themselves playing the same games, as well as allowing easy ports.
Add to this the fact that Microsoft is planning on integrating gaming into Longhorn (I can't believe no one has brought this up, yet) and you've got a solid platform for the future. Again, for those of you who don't know, Longhorn is going to (a) make games accessible from a common "My games" folder, (b) help determine optimal settings for your computer (c) make sure that you're up to date on drivers and the like (d) automatically download patches for your games via a "Windows Update" style interface and (e) provide matchmaking capabilities online. (I'm not sure about the last one, but 99% positive that everything else covered is gospel truth).
So, how do I see the future? I see the future much like the past. In a short period of time, Microsoft is going to do for gaming what they did for computing, surfing the web and productivity: they're going to take it, make the most accessible products on the market, make them work with 99% of users, and then dominate the market. Some of us will hate them, but they will monopolize. Nintendo is getting out of the console market, they just don't have the market share. Xbox2, I believe, will push Sony out, as well. If you don't believe it...look at Word, Excel, Internet Explorer, Windows and any other variety of Microsoft products. IF Sony does stick around, they'll likely become a niche market, much like Apple has become. (Of course, Apple has been hampered by a number of other, more serious problems). Microsoft is the empire, and you must bow to them. No choice there, guys. It's over.
Individuality is dead. Long live Microsoft.
Kevin Lowe
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Impulse said:
Including mine. However, then I'd have to either haul my box back and forth, or get a second computer for work and school. Neither of those options is particularly appealing.
Besides, there's still the issue of digital surround. The only sound card that did it is tied to outdated tech (Athlon XP), and I haven't seen anyone bringing a new solution to the market.
Lastly, I have a wireless mouse and keyboard, but where the hell am I going to use a mouse on my couch?
superthrawn
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Kevin Lowe said:
Athlon XP is outdated tech? Dammit, I need a new proc, now.
Point is, it may not be cutting edge, but it hasn't quite gone the way of the P2, either.
superthrawn said:
Supertrawn you made some excellent points and the most important, imho, is Microsoft's role in where gaming goes. A factor I did not consider when I started this thread.
If the Xbox2 has these 3 versions it still will be magnitudes easier to code for than PC games. If you don't believe me ask people who do it for a living. (PS. Part of my lively hood is from coding).
As for Longhorn and super easy gaming, well first we have to have Longhorn and then we need decent market penetration. It would not surprise me if it is 2007 before Longhorn hits the street and you will need at least 2 years until it is being widely used. Second this gaming feature has to actually make it to release. Third, I seriously doubt publishers other than Microsoft are going to 'buy-in' to this auto-update feature, as you can be sure it won't be free.
I am not sure what M$ is up to... the # of PC games they publish has dropped dramatically, the last 2 signifcant ones were Halo and Rise of Nations, they only currently are showing 2 in the works, versus 7 for the Xbox.
But Microsoft is up to something and they have the muscle. Their current Market Value is $290 Billion, compared to Sony's $33 Billion and Nintendo's $13 Billion. Hell Microsoft has 60+ Billion in cash alone!!!
I don't think the Xbox2 is gonna dominate the PS3 but I would not be surprised if the Xbox grabs 50% or better of the console market in a few years.
WickedAngel
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This is what happens when you take rumors as facts.
PS2 games have to be the easiest to pirate. At least with a PC game you have to find a crack, keygen...etc..
As for sales for consoles games, think the reason certain games go platinum for both PS2 and Xbox...for example, the HALO and the GTA series, are because of the video rental stores (IMO). There had to be at least 25 copies if not more of HALO2 at one Blockbuster (x that by 9000 chain stores, plus any other video rental chains, and online rental sites = a big # in sales). So, I'm not saying this is the reason the console games go platinum but, it plays a good part.
I personally love my computer for gaming...the titles are usually there to select from. Where like say Xbox, if you want a hot title...like HALO2...you have to have a Xbox to play. PS2 owners are just out of luck. PC is too but, only for a year or so. It'll eventually find its way to PC. I just think my console is only good for Madden and NCAA and that's about it. Also can't live without my keyboard and mouse for shooters. Consoles are slowly getting there but, the devs haven't really catered to it yet.
Maybe in 5 years my opinion will change but, I don't know.
As for sales for consoles games, think the reason certain games go platinum for both PS2 and Xbox...for example, the HALO and the GTA series, are because of the video rental stores (IMO). There had to be at least 25 copies if not more of HALO2 at one Blockbuster (x that by 9000 chain stores, plus any other video rental chains, and online rental sites = a big # in sales). So, I'm not saying this is the reason the console games go platinum but, it plays a good part.
I personally love my computer for gaming...the titles are usually there to select from. Where like say Xbox, if you want a hot title...like HALO2...you have to have a Xbox to play. PS2 owners are just out of luck. PC is too but, only for a year or so. It'll eventually find its way to PC. I just think my console is only good for Madden and NCAA and that's about it. Also can't live without my keyboard and mouse for shooters. Consoles are slowly getting there but, the devs haven't really catered to it yet.
Maybe in 5 years my opinion will change but, I don't know.
BlackCoffee
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Consoles = More Affordable for Kids of young ages or young men/women who don't have enough $ to pay for a high-end system.
Consoles have some good graphics and game play, however, nothing beats the technique of owning on a keyboard + mouse. PC FOREVER!.
Consoles have some good graphics and game play, however, nothing beats the technique of owning on a keyboard + mouse. PC FOREVER!.
TekSomniaK
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iZero said:
Shows how little you know. I really want to know what console game looks better. I'm sorry but you are a moron.
You have it backwards Consoles are going extinct and becoming more like pc's.
Any way I love my htpc 50" o gaming nirvana.
http://home.comcast.net/~jose0779/wsb/html/view.cgi-photos.html-.html
http://home.comcast.net/~cindy0779/wsb/html/view.cgi-photos.html-.html
Any way I love my htpc 50" o gaming nirvana.
http://home.comcast.net/~jose0779/wsb/html/view.cgi-photos.html-.html
http://home.comcast.net/~cindy0779/wsb/html/view.cgi-photos.html-.html