The over-60Hz LCD thread

Yes, definitely worth it. I haven't bought the 3D glasses yet for my 120hz LCD, but I might when I upgrade my system. I pretty much know that it would just be for very occasional use, so I haven't bought them yet. The bread and butter of this monitor is the 120hz in 2D, not 60hz in 3D, for me.
 
@THOMO : If you can't provide a pic, can you provide some detail as to how you know it doesn't skip frames? You've noticed smooth gaming with no stuttering downside? You have dual monitors and can notice the difference between the two? You whipped the cursor around and it looked smooth? You took a pic but can't find an easy way of posting it here?... which is the situation I'm in right now... speaking of which...

@ everyone else: does the [H] forums have a file size or resolution limit? I uploaded two pics to imageshack to demonstrate frame skipping in the first post, and they're not showing up. They're both 1024x768 jpgs.

Also, updated the unconfirmed list with the latest entries.
 
Do you know the refresh rate of Samsung B2430H at full resolution? Is it also 75hz like Asus VH242H?

I'm to choose between those 2 monitors and i'm having hard time deciding. Is Asus really as good as it seems on Newegg?
 
@Alper

I wish I could tell you... that's what this thread is for! But if it ain't on the confirmed list, no guarantees. Maybe you could get the Samsung and post results!

As for the Asus... yah, it's alright. I naturally want to compare it to my main 2209WA, which is a bit unfair... plus they are hard to find anymore. I wish the Asus had a bit less backlight bleed... but then I've said that about every single monitor other than my 2209WA and my ancient high-end 16" PVA Sharp LCD. Relatively speaking it's decent in the bleed area. Ergonomics for the menu: above average.

If I had to buy a monitor right now though, I would go for one of the 120Hz models if I could afford it... if not, the Asus is an acceptable silver medal.
 
Heyas,

Asus Ve276q (or Ve278q) is on the list. Here is my experience with a custom EDID override inf file.

It *says* (monitor osd, windows settings) it does non 60hz ( i tried 72hz and 76hz, making sure I stay below the 170mhz pixel bandwith) but actually it doesn't seem to be doing it.

Games with vsync say they sync at about 72 and 76hz in these cases but its horribly stuttery and choppy. When I manually cap the framerate at 72 / 76 it still is horribly stuttery.

I did however create a more 'perfect match' 60.00x hz driver, so now when I cap the game fps at 60 (or 120) I get a much more accurate sync with a horizontal line barely moving up/down the screen. This is beautifully smooth, 90% vsync, indicating that it seems all it really does is 60hz.
 
@Niels_at_home

A begrudging thank you...

It's been taken off the list... a real shame... it would have been the biggest high-refresh monitor yet... but alas, it was not meant to be.

ASUS, I can haz 27" 120Hz model?
 
the viewsonic vx922 can do 75hz in its native res without judder
its only a 19" 1280x1024 tn though
 
the samsung 2333t can do 72hz in its native res without judder (special timings needed)
its can also do 80hz+ in 1280x720 (black screen at 85hz)
its a 1920x1080 c-pva with <1 frame input lag

can't prove the judder-free because my digicam doesn't have the needed settings
 
dowant120hz said:
the samsung 2333t can do 72hz in its native res without judder (special timings needed)
its can also do 80hz+ in 1280x720 (black screen at 85hz)
its a 1920x1080 c-pva with <1 frame input lag

can't prove the judder-free because my digicam doesn't have the needed settings
Click to expand...

If you can't prove it with a pic, can you prove it with words? How do you know its "without judder"?
 
LCD don't have a refresh rate. They are not CRT monitors. It doesn't have a Electron Gun. You only see a refresh rate in windows coz it has to be compatible with your gpu.

And to get its true refresh rate it can emulate its
1000/response time
single dvi can only support up to 60mhz
Dual dvi and Hdmi 120mhz

If the LCD is too slow to redraw or refresh the screen it means the gpu are racing ahead and its buffers are full waiting for the LCD.
Try enabling triple buffering to let it use a third buffer. That should give the LCD enough time when sending the signal to the gpu for the next images to refresh
 
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Niels_at_home said:
Heyas,

Asus Ve276q (or Ve278q) is on the list. Here is my experience with a custom EDID override inf file.

It *says* (monitor osd, windows settings) it does non 60hz ( i tried 72hz and 76hz, making sure I stay below the 170mhz pixel bandwith) but actually it doesn't seem to be doing it.

Games with vsync say they sync at about 72 and 76hz in these cases but its horribly stuttery and choppy. When I manually cap the framerate at 72 / 76 it still is horribly stuttery.

I did however create a more 'perfect match' 60.00x hz driver, so now when I cap the game fps at 60 (or 120) I get a much more accurate sync with a horizontal line barely moving up/down the screen. This is beautifully smooth, 90% vsync, indicating that it seems all it really does is 60hz.
Click to expand...

if you have vsync enabled and its stuttering then you must have triple buffering enabled as well. Just have a look
 
TechonNapkins said:
If you can't prove it with a pic, can you prove it with words? How do you know its "without judder"?
Click to expand...
I can confirm the 2333T supports 72 Hz, actually up to 76 Hz like the F2380. It's basically the same monitor as the F2380 with a newer panel and different casing.



Spooony said:
LCD don't have a refresh rate. They are not CRT monitors. It doesn't have a Electron Gun. You only see a refresh rate in windows coz it has to be compatible with your gpu.
Click to expand...
Um, yeah they do have refresh rates. They refresh from top to bottom just like CRT monitors because that's how the signal is received. Many are locked to 60 Hz and will skip refreshes at higher refresh rates. Some are able to handle higher refresh rates properly, and that's what this thread is about.

Spooony said:
And to get its true refresh rate it can emulate its
1000/response time
single dvi can only support up to 60mhz
Dual dvi and Hdmi 120mhz
Click to expand...
Why do you come in here and make stuff up when you have no idea what you're talking about? Refresh rates have nothing to do with response times. DVI and HDMI are not limited to any refresh rate. They are limited by bandwidth. DVI and HDMI 1.0/1.1 have a 165 MHz pixel clock limit, while dual-link DVI and HDMI 1.3+ support at least 330 MHz.

Spooony said:
If the LCD is too slow to redraw or refresh the screen it means the gpu are racing ahead and its buffers are full waiting for the LCD.
Try enabling triple buffering to let it use a third buffer. That should give the LCD enough time when sending the signal to the gpu for the next images to refresh
Click to expand...
That has nothing to do with the LCD. The same thing would happen with a CRT. The GPU is waiting for the next refresh. The only reasons vsync would stutter is if the frame rate can't keep up with the refresh rate OR if there's a separate frame rate limit that's not exactly synchronized with the refresh rate so sometimes the frame starts rendering too late and the blanking period is missed (which happens with Doom 3 at 60 Hz because of the 60 fps limit).
 
TechonNapkins said:
If you can't prove it with a pic, can you prove it with words? How do you know its "without judder"?
Click to expand...
when a monitor downsamples everything to 60hz its usually rather obvious
there are visible cursor gaps when doing circles and the cursor generally is very choppy instead of a smooth movement

also on all 3 displays i've named there were already other people/review-sites saying the same
 
IMO this thread could also mention LCDs that do less than 60hz eg. 50 or 48hz as it provides with a smoother movie playback when it is supported.

I have the LG IPS226 right now (and it has fairly terrible clouding btw) and while I can't seem to get any higher than 60hz (on DVI that is) 50hz works flawlessly.
So I'd be curious to hear about what people managed to pull out of the U2210/U2310 (since it's supposed to be the same panel as mine).
 
kalston said:
IMO this thread could also mention LCDs that do less than 60hz eg. 50 or 48hz as it provides with a smoother movie playback when it is supported.

I have the LG IPS226 right now (and it has fairly terrible clouding btw) and while I can't seem to get any higher than 60hz (on DVI that is) 50hz works flawlessly.
So I'd be curious to hear about what people managed to pull out of the U2210/U2310 (since it's supposed to be the same panel as mine).
Click to expand...

Oh boy... I suppose the posts themselves could address this, but I would rather keep the chart simple. I was thinking something similar, but at 72Hz instead (24Hz x 3), and I wish current playback software (especially when you pay close to $100 for them!) had an option to automatically switch framerate to a multiple of the video's framerate (after going through a wizard to confirm your system supports the custom resolutions)... Arcsoft? You listening? In fact, those out there who like this idea, email Arcsoft/Cyberlink/etc and we may just get this feature!
 
TechonNapkins said:
Oh boy... I suppose the posts themselves could address this, but I would rather keep the chart simple. I was thinking something similar, but at 72Hz instead (24Hz x 3), and I wish current playback software (especially when you pay close to $100 for them!) had an option to automatically switch framerate to a multiple of the video's framerate (after going through a wizard to confirm your system supports the custom resolutions)... Arcsoft? You listening? In fact, those out there who like this idea, email Arcsoft/Cyberlink/etc and we may just get this feature!
Click to expand...
media player classic can automatically change the refresh rate depending on the video frame rate
costs nothing

i never use it because almost everything is 24fps and i always run 72hz
 
the viewsonic vp930 can do 75hz in its native res without judder
its a 19" 1280x1024 mva with 1 frame input lag

also confirmed by prad.de and 75hz is also in the monitor's edid
 
Spooony said:
LCD don't have a refresh rate. They are not CRT monitors. It doesn't have a Electron Gun. You only see a refresh rate in windows coz it has to be compatible with your gpu.

And to get its true refresh rate it can emulate its
1000/response time
single dvi can only support up to 60mhz
Dual dvi and Hdmi 120mhz

If the LCD is too slow to redraw or refresh the screen it means the gpu are racing ahead and its buffers are full waiting for the LCD.
Try enabling triple buffering to let it use a third buffer. That should give the LCD enough time when sending the signal to the gpu for the next images to refresh
Click to expand...

Pretty sure LCDs have a refresh rate, or most of the discussion here would be pretty irrelevant.
 
I always feel my ASUS VW266H should be able to do more then 60hz at 1920 x 1200. It does faster refreshes at the lower resolution but at 1900 x 1200 it defaults to 60 HZ. It has both HDMI and DVI inputs..

Is there anyway I can test this out? There is no inf for this monitor ASUS never made one.
 
Hey, I used your timings on my LG IPS226 and it works! This is absolutely amazing for what I do, thanks for this thread!

One little issue though : the monitor emits a noticeable buzz when displaying some content (such as this forum) it did it at lower HZ too but it was a bit less pronounced I think. For games and films this is pure awesomeness and there's no noticeable noise.
 
NCX said:
Just wanted to confirm that the Acer G245Hbmid runs @ 72hz with ToastX's F2380/NEC settings

Acer G245H OSD 72hz Confirmation

Nvidia Settings

Winning with Charlie Sheen
Click to expand...

All of those pics show the monitor can TAKE 72Hz, but not necessarily DISPLAY 72Hz without skipped frames. Added to unconfirmed for now. See the first post for what to look for. If you can't do a pic, then please descibe how you know it is not skipping frames. I'm not trying to be an anal jerk, but if someone buys a monitor on the confirmed list, I want to make sure they won't be disappointed.
 
I don't have any pictures for the LG IPS226 (and can't take any atm) but I can tell you this : the monitor OSD says 72hz, madvr/reclock/powerstrip say 72hz too.

Games running at 72hz feel noticeably different and more responsive, I know I can't prove this but I'm one of those ultra sensitive jerks that, for example, can't use SLI/Crossfire because of the micro-stuttering. Tearing was greatly reduced compared to 60hz and when I used v-sync it was absolutely flawless and felt better than 60 (probably because of the lower lag).

Movie playback was absolutely flawless (watched a few blu rays), credits were butter smooth.
Only by running 50hz and and using reclock to speed up to 25fps could I get that before (but I hated what it did to the sound so I only used it for crap films)

It would be pretty obvious if it skipped frames in a film, right? I mean, I can easily spot the judder every second at 50hz for example. Movie playback at 60hz just makes my head hurt, the credits being an obvious example that everyone should be able to notice.

Did some paint too and everything was smooth and accurate.
 
kalston said:
I don't have any pictures for the LG IPS226 (and can't take any atm) but I can tell you this : the monitor OSD says 72hz, madvr/reclock/powerstrip say 72hz too.

Games running at 72hz feel noticeably different and more responsive, I know I can't prove this but I'm one of those ultra sensitive jerks that, for example, can't use SLI/Crossfire because of the micro-stuttering. Tearing was greatly reduced compared to 60hz and when I used v-sync it was absolutely flawless and felt better than 60 (probably because of the lower lag).

Movie playback was absolutely flawless (watched a few blu rays), credits were butter smooth.
Only by running 50hz and and using reclock to speed up to 25fps could I get that before (but I hated what it did to the sound so I only used it for crap films)

It would be pretty obvious if it skipped frames in a film, right? I mean, I can easily spot the judder every second at 50hz for example. Movie playback at 60hz just makes my head hurt, the credits being an obvious example that everyone should be able to notice.

Did some paint too and everything was smooth and accurate.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I want to hear. If you're sensitive to micro-stutter in SLI, you would definitely notice the dropped frames in games. Adding the LG IPS226 to the confirmed list. If you have the time, could you also let us know what inputs and refresh rates you've had success with? This new LG may become the new go-to budget IPS if it all looks good.
 
I should try 75/76hz later. 50hz works fine (so you can get smooth movie playback with both 24 and 25fps content) but maybe 75hz could work too.

Anyway, I can confirm that the monitor emits a louder buzz at 72hz compared to 60/50. When displaying some content like this forum it could be bothering to some, however it's not that loud.

To give you an idea, having headphones on (even without the sound) makes it pretty much inaudible unless I put my face right next to the monitor. I'm sitting in an extremely quiet room too (absolutely no background noise). You'll never hear it in games or films.

BTW, in your post you wrote LG IPS226 23" but I have the 22" version (the 23" is the IPS236). I guess they should have very similar panels though.
(you also have the Samsung F2380 both in the confirmed and unconfirmed list)
 
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Basically what kalston said in regards to how the Acer runs @72hz, except I am using SLI.

I have an F2380MX running @72hz as next to the Acer.
 
So I picked up an Acer V193W for next to nothing locally today as a backup and without looking at specs was pleasantly surprised when I saw 75Hz in windows. Manual read the same so here it is.
Acer V193W; TN; 19IN/48CM; Native 1440*900 @ 75Hz Only D-sub on V193W
I'll start by saying I've never used a really nice monitor so I can't reliably comment on colours as my main is a sammy T260. But I have to say that I'm very pleased with 75hz, huge difference made me fire up tons of games with Vsync on to test out. 19in is very small but with AA I truly don't mind & no noticable judder. I doubt I'll keep this as I am waiting on the Acer HN274 or similar to come to Canada & a price drop, :rolleyes:

 
I'm going to try 75/76hz later on today (to improve gaming even further, thanks to the low input lag I'm really enjoying playing Quake Live and the likes on it)

Will report back here with my results.

Edit : 76hz works just as well! (same timings as the F2380/2333)
 
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kalston said:
I'm going to try 75/76hz later on today (to improve gaming even further, thanks to the low input lag I'm really enjoying playing Quake Live and the likes on it)

Will report back here with my results.

Edit : 76hz works just as well! (same timings as the F2380/2333)
Click to expand...

Good to hear! See if you can go even higher! You may need to switch to hdmi though... you'll be running out of bandwidth on DVI really quickly on single link DVI.

Also, can you comment on other screen attributes of the IPS226? I saw its bigger brother, and wasn't that impressed (got quite purple off-angle).
 
TechonNapkins said:
Good to hear! See if you can go even higher! You may need to switch to hdmi though... you'll be running out of bandwidth on DVI really quickly on single link DVI.

Also, can you comment on other screen attributes of the IPS226? I saw its bigger brother, and wasn't that impressed (got quite purple off-angle).
Click to expand...

I used ToastyX's timings for 72 and 76 BTW. 50 doesn't require anything special (only a custom res with automatic timings)
Also, I said 76 when it's actually 76.5 (so some programs will report 77hz, and nvidia does too)

I tried HDMI (without custom timings) and couldn't go any higher than 60. I have no idea how timings work and how to use them though.

About the monitor itself... well it's far from being perfect. It gets quite purple off-angle too and also has some noticeable clouding on the two bottom corners. I set the brightness to 20 instead of the default 100 and it's much better already (can still notice it when watching a film in the dark though).
On the other hand, colour gradients are smooth despite the 6bit.
It's almost calibrated out of the box too, only requires reducing the blue and green to 41 instead of 50 and you get an acceptable DeltaE of about 3.
Blacks aren't too bad with the brightness set to 20.
Sharpness is pretty good and reading tiny text isn't an issue. AG is noticeable, but it's not worse than the TN panels I've had before by any means so I can't say I'm bothered in any way.

Responsiveness is not as good as Digital Versus said, I can see ghosting quite a bit especially on some colours. It's still better than the average 5ms TN though.
I don't have it but I'm pretty sure (from what I gathered) that the Dell 2209 is still the best IPS for gaming out there. A shame that it doesn't do at least 1080p and doesn't have great blacks.
 
The IPS236v can do 76.55Hz as well using the same timings (F2380/2333 timings). I've done what I can to try and notice stuttering/dropped frames w/o actually taking a picture and have not noticed any (I would say I am fairly sensitive to this, I see judder fairly easily) so at least it can be put on the unconfirmed list. Depending on how lazy I am tonight I may dig out the DSLR and do a time lapsed. No promises though. :D
 
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kalston said:
I used ToastyX's timings for 72 and 76 BTW. 50 doesn't require anything special (only a custom res with automatic timings)
Also, I said 76 when it's actually 76.5 (so some programs will report 77hz, and nvidia does too)

I tried HDMI (without custom timings) and couldn't go any higher than 60. I have no idea how timings work and how to use them though.

About the monitor itself... well it's far from being perfect. It gets quite purple off-angle too and also has some noticeable clouding on the two bottom corners. I set the brightness to 20 instead of the default 100 and it's much better already (can still notice it when watching a film in the dark though).
On the other hand, colour gradients are smooth despite the 6bit.
It's almost calibrated out of the box too, only requires reducing the blue and green to 41 instead of 50 and you get an acceptable DeltaE of about 3.
Blacks aren't too bad with the brightness set to 20.
Sharpness is pretty good and reading tiny text isn't an issue. AG is noticeable, but it's not worse than the TN panels I've had before by any means so I can't say I'm bothered in any way.

Responsiveness is not as good as Digital Versus said, I can see ghosting quite a bit especially on some colours. It's still better than the average 5ms TN though.
I don't have it but I'm pretty sure (from what I gathered) that the Dell 2209 is still the best IPS for gaming out there. A shame that it doesn't do at least 1080p and doesn't have great blacks.
Click to expand...

kalston this is your opinion.
For me the Ag coating is terrible, cause eyestrain and the difference of coating from TN is excessive to text reading.

color and contrast is over the top, and fast responsive time and input lag and any issues but i can't read with this monitor and the cause is not the dot pitch.
i have a TN with same specific and a notebook with same dot pitch and i see very good.
 
Of course it is, but I have terrible eyes and unless I turn cleartype on I have no issue at all reading tiny text.
 
i notice the AG coating, and the small dot pitch dont help me.
if u can read, means that u dont notice the coating like me.
 
kalston said:
Update : I have verified the LG IPS226 with the tool from this thread : http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1423433 : flawless. Don't have a CRT for the input lag test though :(
Click to expand...

I tried that tool for finding skipped frames, but for that didn't find that as useful/easy as just look for skipped frames in pointer movement. But anyway, list updated (both LGs put in confirmed list)

This thread is less about reviewing each monitor than listing all the capable ones... but it would be nice to find the spiritual successor to the 2209WA. I, too, would pass on both the LGs from what I've seen with my own eyeballs thus far. Still looking for that diamond in the rough...

Also, it would be good to have a post for both Nvidia and AMD cards on how to force 75Hz (having a heck of a time with my new 6950 myself). Any volunteers? I would do the Nvidia one, but my GTX460 is already gone (although I think ToastyX already had some sort of guide in another thread).
 
Managed to get an Acer HN274H, which is the only 27" 120Hz monitor at the moment. This bad-boy is sick!!! Never seen a 120Hz monitor before this and I can't believe how smooth everything looks. Its amazing.

Games look great, much reduced motion blur and less choppiness when looking around. Its literally twice as smooth. Even just moving the mouse cursor or dragging windows on the desktop is on another level. Even better, it comes with 3D glasses, and the 3D is even sicker. I can't believe this monitor is for real.

In terms of pure picture quality it does not match high-end IPS panels, but you already knew that. What you get is 120Hz and 3D, which you don't find on those other displays.

Its really sad some people continue to perpetrate the myth than humans cannot see past 60Hz. Its totally patently false. Super bogus! Anyone that has seen a 120Hz display with the proper setup will know it is like night and day. Its too late. Theres no going back once you see it!
 
TechonNapkins said:
Also, it would be good to have a post for both Nvidia and AMD cards on how to force 75Hz (having a heck of a time with my new 6950 myself). Any volunteers? I would do the Nvidia one, but my GTX460 is already gone (although I think ToastyX already had some sort of guide in another thread).
Click to expand...

Yes I would like this as well. Makes me sad that most games still end up reverting back to 60Hz
 
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