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The Internet is a Basic Human Right

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Just when you thought that whole “three strikes law” in France was a sure thing, along comes the country’s high court to rule the internet is a basic human right. Wow, I’ll bet none of you saw THAT coming, did you?

France's highest court has inflicted an embarrassing blow to President Sarkozy by cutting the heart out of a law that was supposed to put France in the forefront of the fight against piracy on the internet. The strongly-worded decision means that Mr Sarkozy's scheme has backfired and inadvertently boosted those who defend the free-for-all culture of the web.
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Free association and free speech are privileges, not rights :)

I think you need to think what is really involved in the TCP/IP protocols, and not go by the media/layidiot idea of "teh internets".
 
No please the last thing we need is more stupid people on the internet.

We shouldn't let stupid people drive cars either.
 
go france though. the internet is nothing more then an extension like a public city. everyone has a right to be there.
 
Monkey God said:
No, it isn't.
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Huh? I can only assume that you disagree with the statement that "the Internet is a Basic Human Right"... but if you had read the linked article you would realize what is being said. What the Constitutional Council of France really decided was that "...access to public communication services..." should not be unfairly restricted. Two other things they did not like about the Sarkozy internet law was the fact that it violated a citizen's right to privacy. And it violated the presumption of innocence, where suspected "pirates" would be cut off without being given the opportunity to defend themselves.

Just the last part is adequate illustration for why I wouldn't want that type of law here. I mean think about it... we've all heard of cases where RIAA accusations of "piracy" have been leveled at innocent people. How would you like your "Internet Access" to be cut off for no apparent reason? Especially when that meant to restore that service you had to hire a Lawyer and wade through an already over-burdened Legal System. ... No Thanks!!
 
The internet is not a basic human right any more than access to TV is. People think STUFF and TOYS are human rights, they are NOT. Human rights are far more basic, the right to fair treatment under law, the right to free speech, etc etc.
 
internet is a basic human right

No its not. People seem to forget that "stuff" like this is a luxery. You dont need net to live
 
Monkey God said:
The internet is not a basic human right any more than access to TV is. People think STUFF and TOYS are human rights, they are NOT. Human rights are far more basic, the right to fair treatment under law, the right to free speech, etc etc.
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And what the RIAA is doing is "fair treatment under the law". I love it when people do this.
 
Monkey God said:
The internet is not a basic human right any more than access to TV is. People think STUFF and TOYS are human rights, they are NOT. Human rights are far more basic, the right to fair treatment under law, the right to free speech, etc etc.
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Yeah, welcome to the "entitlement" generation.
 
Trepidati0n said:
And what the RIAA is doing is "fair treatment under the law". I love it when people do this.
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Dont steal shit and you wont have a problem with the RIAA?
Really? Downloading copyrighted material is a right?

You people need to read more history books and get a clearer idea of what a "right" really is.
 
Monkey God said:
The internet is not a basic human right any more than access to TV is. People think STUFF and TOYS are human rights, they are NOT. Human rights are far more basic, the right to fair treatment under law, the right to free speech, etc etc.
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While you may be correct in your assumption of that definition, let me remind you that the semantics of said "rights" lie only within the matter of fact that we derive such meaning from. In other words, this so-called "High Court" was most likely paid off, and/or promised continued/extended support for a very long time. Any way you look at this battle, Copyright Infringement of Digital media will never end, the usage of the internet......WILL NEVER END!

The point here is that you can't just assume other people's thoughts on the matter, then come out guns a' blazin' expecting not to be called out on it. You have to thoroughly analyze situation like these and come up with a solution, not throw temper tantrums, and act like a 3 year old every time someone downloads a song or a movie. That's exactly what organizations like the RIAA and MPAA do; they throw a fit with the courts until they get their way, via extreme lobbying, threats, legal supremacy, and of course the inevitable pay-off. This works both ways as well. The one's trying to say Copyright Infringement is not illegal are doing the same, only to a lesser degree. Any way you view the situation, it's about control, and right now, organizations like the RIAA are losing that control every day.


My solution would be to agree on a fair price for a per song basis, low enough to discourage pirating all-together. These industries need to be thankful for business, not greedy as hell. Make songs $0.20 a piece USD, and $0.30 for high quality files, NO DRM, NO ADs, NO RESTRICTIONS ON WHERE/WHEN you can use it. I would easily drop $10,000 for music right now if iTunes offered songs for that price.

I'm neutral on the situation, and quite frankly I'm sick and tired of people trolling the internet blathering about it. Please, unless you have a valid idea or proposal for a solution, just do not speak.

Peace
 
Who is there to say that a person doesn't have a right to access the internet?
 
ZDPhoenix said:
People said the same thing about the right to bear arms.
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yeah because the right to defend oneself from criminals or an oppressive government is as on the same scale as downloading pr0n or music on the internets.

Seriously, how can you compare the two at all?

WTF
 
Htr-Labs said:
I'm neutral on the situation, and quite frankly I'm sick and tired of people trolling the internet blathering about it. Please, unless you have a valid idea or proposal for a solution, just do not speak.

Peace
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Im not sure if this last comment was directed at me or not, but my solution is simple, dont download shit youre not supposed too. If you dont want media with DRM, dont buy it.

Way too many people on this planet wake up every morning wondering if they are going to eat today or get hacked up by a neighboring tribe wielding machettes, while people in the west are bitching about their "right to steal media"

pisses me off. People need a cold bucket of perspective dumped on their faces once in a while.
 
ZDPhoenix said:
People said the same thing about the right to bear arms.
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Considering that the country was founded (or taken from, depending on your argument) on the right to bear arms and it was the foundation of this nation, it's a little hard to argue that.

Obvious troll is obvious.
 
Monkey God said:
Im not sure if this last comment was directed at me or not, but my solution is simple, dont download shit youre not supposed too. If you dont want media with DRM, dont buy it.

Way too many people on this planet wake up every morning wondering if they are going to eat today or get hacked up by a neighboring tribe wielding machettes, while people in the west are bitching about their "right to steal media"

pisses me off. People need a cold bucket of perspective dumped on their faces once in a while.
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No it was not directed at you, only a general statement. I couldn't agree with you more on the second part, however the fact remains in that Business (The Collective Media Industries) need to be more respectful of their customers wishes, and the customers need to be more respectful of the Industry's wishes. With a mutual agreement for fair pricing, market demand would sky-rocket and eventually level out, leaving but one solution and that is for the Media Industry to constantly adapt. Do not fight change, join and overcome it. Fair Pricing is not something that is hard to do. The only thing stopping the media from introducing such an ideal is.......greed.

Peace
 
Htr-Labs said:
No it was not directed at you, only a general statement. I couldn't agree with you more on the second part, however the fact remains in that Business (The Collective Media Industries) need to be more respectful of their customers wishes, and the customers need to be more respectful of the Industry's wishes. With a mutual agreement for fair pricing, market demand would sky-rocket and eventually level out, leaving but one solution and that is for the Media Industry to constantly adapt. Do not fight change, join and overcome it. Fair Pricing is not something that is hard to do. The only thing stopping the media from introducing such an ideal is.......greed.

Peace
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I agree with that, but thats the nature of business. They are dumb, and short sighted. Hell, it took them damn near 10 years just to get anything on the internet.
 
Ockie said:
Considering that the country was founded (or taken from, depending on your argument) on the right to bear arms and it was the foundation of this nation, it's a little hard to argue that.

Obvious troll is obvious.
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how was he trolling? just because he has a point?

is america that far behind the curve that it's people don't realize the internet IS a basic need of modern life? the argument "you dont need it" is just absurd- you don't need free speech either, there are women who have been kept in basements for 25 years while not being allowed to do anything, no rights, but they still live. people in Guantanamo are alive.... it doesnt mean they have rights. needs and rights are separate things.
 
watertown28 said:
internet is a basic human right

No its not. People seem to forget that "stuff" like this is a luxery. You dont need net to live
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They are not talking about watching porn and posting on forums. Some things can only be doen online these days and more and more things will in the future only be online. Signing up for university, applying for grants, voting. All these things happen or will most likely in the future happen online.

Internet is more and more becoming something you must have in order to function and be able to work.

Also I don't see what is wrong in making more things rights as long as you don't forget about the ones that are most important.

I don't know about you guys, but I think that uncensured information is very important, we cannot let internet have a filter like in China where the government can filter out what they don't want you to read. I don't call having access to the truth a privilige, it's a human right. Without it we cannot make informed decisions nor can we be considered free beings.
 
as much as I hate to agree with the french I think they are right here. what the RIAA can easily be viewed as not only preventing theft but preventing access to news and modern communications. No one would openly suggest banning newspapers but what is replacing them?

and the lack of due process was bound to come up, hell even china pretends to follow it. But the RIAA does not?
 
@Dagas - THANK YOU. The internet is not just about porn and music and games... it is a REQUIREMENT for many jobs, educational opportunities, etc. It has nothing to do with the "entitlement generation," it has to do with today's world not being the same one the previous generation grew up in.

And, if nothing else, the mere fact that it was finding people guilty WITHOUT BENEFIT OF A TRIAL should be a major source of concern.

Monkey God said:
Dont steal shit and you wont have a problem with the RIAA?
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Except it has been proven that their methods are flawed and lead to false positives. There is a very good reason why U.S. ISPs are willing to pass along the RIAA's silly notices but will NOT terminate users' accounts based on their "evidence."
 
spacetrader said:
how was he trolling? just because he has a point?

is america that far behind the curve that it's people don't realize the internet IS a basic need of modern life? the argument "you dont need it" is just absurd- you don't need free speech either, there are women who have been kept in basements for 25 years while not being allowed to do anything, no rights, but they still live. people in Guantanamo are alive.... it doesnt mean they have rights. needs and rights are separate things.
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trolling is when you blatantly throw in a comparison or a subject that is deemed to create a heated debate.

like, hell, why don't we just say it's just as a right as abortion is

or just as a right as religion is to practice at work

or just as a right as Hitler had


see where I'm going? things like that would be trolling, seeking out to escalate from a debate to an all out flame war.
 
Only time i dont surf is when showering but thats because i havent mounted a water proof touch screen in my shower :(
 
Access to the internet is as much a "right" as knowing how to read. In Estonia, the "right" to internet access is in their constitution. We don't need that here, but people lumping the internet in with luxuries like jewelry and fancy cars are either trolls, or they're completely out of touch.
 
Im tired of arguing with the entitlement generation who thinks having the intarwebz and a new iphone every year for free is somehow a damn right. You have life SO EASY compared to so many people, and think you are somehow special and deserving of all the luxuries you have, when you haven't the foggiest idea of what life is like outside of your own little cocoon world.

I guess I'm too old to understand peoples perspectives anymore. When so many of the worlds population today lives in abject poverty or in fear of basic survival that when you whiney sniveling little brats come along crying about how you have a "basic human right" to the latest gadget just pisses me off.

Of course people should have access to the net, and shouldn't have it taken away with out due process and a reasonable form of legalit protection/resolution, but equating internet access with basic human rights is just plain stupid, PERIOD.
 
Monkey God said:
Im tired of arguing with the entitlement generation who thinks having the intarwebz and a new iphone every year for free is somehow a damn right. You have life SO EASY compared to so many people, and think you are somehow special and deserving of all the luxuries you have, when you haven't the foggiest idea of what life is like outside of your own little cocoon world.

I guess I'm too old to understand peoples perspectives anymore. When so many of the worlds population today lives in abject poverty or in fear of basic survival that when you whiney sniveling little brats come along crying about how you have a "basic human right" to the latest gadget just pisses me off.

Of course people should have access to the net, and shouldn't have it taken away with out due process and a reasonable form of legalit protection/resolution, but equating internet access with basic human rights is just plain stupid, PERIOD.
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Shit changes bro. No one is going to argue that some people have it worse than others, and some have it better. That's a given. But just because I have access to more modern devices than someone in a third world country you expect me to give that up? What would that prove? Should I go a month without clean drinking water so I "know what it's like?" I have news for you, I'm pretty sure I can guess what it's like. As others have said our world is evolving and becoming more technology based. Soon everything will be "online." Does anyone actually go to a library these days? You resources do you use if you have a report to do? You get that shit online. Preservation of the free exchange of INFORMATION is our goal here. Unrestricted access to knowledge is what this is about. Get over yourself, please.
 
CEpeep said:
Access to the internet is as much a "right" as knowing how to read. In Estonia, the "right" to internet access is in their constitution. We don't need that here, but people lumping the internet in with luxuries like jewelry and fancy cars are either trolls, or they're completely out of touch.
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out of touch would be the right answer here

the hardforums are full of very angry old people who have such an urge to oppose anything "those damned kids" say that they'll make complete asses of themselves without fail
 
This is tough one for me. One hand internet is definitely a luxury, a privileged that shouldn't be abused, but on the other there are many people who's livelihood, education, social well being, etc highly depend on have access to the internet. I think the better option would be to decide in court which individuals have a basic need for internet access.
 
Renegade_Azzy said:
How does one have the right to something that another person must pay for?
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Is this a joke? Assuming you live in the US, your tax dollars help ensure that people in this country are provided clean water and safe food to eat, even if they can't afford to go to the store and buy it. If a homeless man gets food from a shelter, or a low-income family uses food stamps, they have just as much of an expectation that their necessities are safe as someone who "paid" for them.
 
Monkey God said:
Im tired of arguing with the entitlement generation who thinks having the intarwebz and a new iphone every year for free is somehow a damn right. You have life SO EASY compared to so many people, and think you are somehow special and deserving of all the luxuries you have, when you haven't the foggiest idea of what life is like outside of your own little cocoon world.

I guess I'm too old to understand peoples perspectives anymore. When so many of the worlds population today lives in abject poverty or in fear of basic survival that when you whiney sniveling little brats come along crying about how you have a "basic human right" to the latest gadget just pisses me off.

Of course people should have access to the net, and shouldn't have it taken away with out due process and a reasonable form of legalit protection/resolution, but equating internet access with basic human rights is just plain stupid, PERIOD.
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*yawn* really? You are apparently too old to employ basic reading comprehension. No one is claiming that an iPhone is a basic human right. What people are saying is that, IN THE MODERN CIVILIZED WORLD, access to the internet is so important to job opportunities, educational opportunities, freedom of communication, etc... that it IS now the equivalent of what should be protected as a basic "right." And trying to defeat that argument by pointing out that there are people in third world countries living in poverty is asinine as it ignores that OUR situation is different than THEIRS.

If you read the opinion it doesn't say "the internet is a basic human right," it refers to the RIGHT OF FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION AND COMMUNICATION (does that sound familiar?) and they determined that FOR FRANCE, the denial of internet access was a substantial infringement upon the free exercise of that right.
 
I dunno, kind of hard to call this one. The internet isn't so much a "luxury item" as it is a means to communicate with the world or get information, akin to a library. However the question lies, can you be permanently banned from the radio? from television? I don't mean a radio company firing you and saying you can't ever work for them, but can you be banned from the radio? The FCC for instance? I don't think you can, and as such you should ever be banned from the internet for good.

However that being said, I think it's perfectly ok to make you lose your ISP, or in the case of criminal issues with the internet, make it a crime to use a computer or other internet capable device for a set period of time. Which might have the same effect as banning you from the internet, but doesn't remove you from the medium. It might be semantics, but I think it's a very distinct thing.
 
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