The HD 3850 AGP User Experience

Sheldog23 said:
ANOTHER hotfix out today (12th) but again it's just a hotfix. Which means it's probably just the driver alone and not the whole Shibang. So I'm not sure what to do with this. Gotta wait till I get home to try it anyways.
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Yes it's just the display driver.
 
Hope ATi get their act together, even though their driver in the PCI-e cards including Crossfire support is better than their rivals, it's AGP support is not that good at all. We also have to consider that drivers takes time to be made and released, they take a multiple release time frame, for example, 8.3 are released on march, but they've been working on it for more than 3 months ago, so they have different driver teams to accomplish this monthly driver release, so for sure they're currently working on Cats 8.6 and above while the 8.5 are almost finished and 8.4 are waiting for WHQL signature, (Something like that) so that's also explain why they haven't released native AGP support with the HD 3850 yet.
 
evolucion8 said:
Hope ATi get their act together, even though their driver in the PCI-e cards including Crossfire support is better than their rivals, it's AGP support is not that good at all. We also have to consider that drivers takes time to be made and released, they take a multiple release time frame, for example, 8.3 are released on march, but they've been working on it for more than 3 months ago, so they have different driver teams to accomplish this monthly driver release, so for sure they're currently working on Cats 8.6 and above while the 8.5 are almost finished and 8.4 are waiting for WHQL signature, (Something like that) so that's also explain why they haven't released native AGP support with the HD 3850 yet.
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well, manually installing the 8.3cat's work fine so i don't see what all the fuss is about.
 
God_Of_Death said:
well, manually installing the 8.3cat's work fine so i don't see what all the fuss is about.
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I have seen it give some fuss. :eek:

But if you dont want the card supported then just dont worry about it and let the ones who do want their card supported make the fuss.
 
Well, I finally got bit.. all this installing new drivers and hot fixes... seems that CCC gets caught in some kind of loop and wont run in basic or advanced mode. It sits in the tray but wont run just keeps looping.. So, guess Ill blank everything out.. get the 8.3 from ati force feed them and just forget ccc..

any idea why CCC keeps looping?
 
LordVampyre said:
Well, I finally got bit.. all this installing new drivers and hot fixes... seems that CCC gets caught in some kind of loop and wont run in basic or advanced mode. It sits in the tray but wont run just keeps looping.. So, guess Ill blank everything out.. get the 8.3 from ati force feed them and just forget ccc..

any idea why CCC keeps looping?
Click to expand...

I had this happen before, and drivercleaner didnt help.
Running ATi's own driver remover was how I fixed it.
 
What I would do, is install the 8.3 driver files manually via device manager (as outlined in a previous post mentioning the "update driver" option under properties). Then separately, manage my AA/AF&Display settings using ATI Tool.

Has anyone tried this yet? I bet it works great :cool:
 
horrorshow said:
What I would do, is install the 8.3 driver files manually via device manager (as outlined in a previous post mentioning the "update driver" option under properties). Then separately, manage my AA/AF&Display settings using ATI Tool.

Has anyone tried this yet? I bet it works great :cool:
Click to expand...

Works fine, but no TV-out with ATi Tool.

And since the Cat 8.2 CCC is working with the cat 8.3 display driver(sapphire hotfix) its ok for now.


EDIT:
ATi Tool does seem to support TV-out... I have not tried it yet thou.
 
Bah! I'm just gonna wait for 8.4! :p :D

(I mean, they have to get it right one of these months, don't they?... don't they?)
 
Bah! I'm just gonna wait for 8.4!

(I mean, they have to get it right one of these months, don't they?... don't they?)
Click to expand...

Even though they haven't included the 3850AGP in their INF file I forced the install with the 8.3 drivers and I have ZERO problems with any game I use. I did have crashes with the Sapphire drivers. Only because they're a hardware company that needs to stay out of the software business.
 
pimpdad82 said:
Here's the post:

Windows XP 32bit
A. Install Drivers
1. Get official driver only cat 8.3 here.
2. Run it so that it extracts to where ever you want but when the next screen pops up click cancel.
3. Goto device manager > graphics adapter > update drivers...
a. Click no i'll update and find it myself for the next screens then click install from specific location.
4. Browse to X:\ATI\SUPPORT\8-3_xp32_dd_59746\XP_INF\CX_59746.inf
5. Scroll down a little till you find "ATI Radeon HD 3850" click next and YES.
6. Reboot

B. Install ATI CCC (Optional)
1. Need to install driver first see above.
2. Get official CCC 8.3 only here
3. Run it and install as usual.
4. Reboot

Now you have the latest drivers and working CCC for your 3850 agp.
Some might say as it doesn't list as AGP it will not work but i have the card and everything works fine, including overdrive!
Screenies





I have tried the above for vista but it will not install CCC. If you only want the drivers though use the above method A.

Windows Vista 32bit
1. Need to install 3850 agp sapphire drivers first. Get them here for XP and Vista.
2. Once they are installed CCC should be working in Vista on the next reboot.
3. Get vista driver only cat 8.3 here
4. Run it so that it extracts to where ever you want but when the next screen pops up click cancel.
5. Update the drivers manually by going to device manager > graphics adapter > update drivers...
6. Click no i'll update and find it myself for the next screens then click install from specific location.
7. Browse to X:\ATI\SUPPORT\8-3_vista32_dd_59752\Packages\Drivers\Display\LH_INF \CL_59752.inf
8. Scroll down a little till you find "ATI Radeon HD 3850" click next and YES.
9. Reboot

Now you have latest drivers for vista and working CCC!
Screenies





Oh and yes DX10 works with games like Bioshock and Crysis that supports it!
I get around 45+ fps with DX10 surface details with Bioshock, in crysis with everything set to very high no AA i get 5-25fps, both games @ 1280x1024.

edit:
I dont have 64bit versions of xp/vista so i cant say for sure if it works but the way to install it is pretty much the same just remember to get the correct driver/ccc links.

For the vista with ccc, those are sapphire drivers so if you have a powercolor agp card just get the latest from there site and update to 8.3 using instructions above. You could just use the sapphire drivers on the powercolor card but it may not work.
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Booya
 
It should work with no problem, because as far as I know, the RiALTO bridge is transparent to the driver, so isn't a matter of AGP or PCIe (Except when there's an issue in the Gart driver)
 
Yeah, tried that. When I get to 4 it tells me there is nothing in that folder that is compatible or something. Meh, it works for now with the original driver but if 8.4 comes out and don't work I'm going to get worried.

I'm a little worried now with newegg no longer selling the Sapphire version. I hope they don't stop the support for it.
 
Sheldog23 said:
I'm a little worried now with newegg no longer selling the Sapphire version. I hope they don't stop the support for it.
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I don't know why they deactivated the item, but 42 out of 49 reviews were 5 eggs. It's possible that Sapphire is coming out with another version, maybe with a bigger cooler?

EDIT: I just checked the other e-tailors and all of them are out of stock. I am guessing that Sapphire is releasing a new version.
 
I just thought I would pop in here and let you guys know whats going on.

So far Sapphire does not seem to know or understand that the cat 8.3 drivers on their site or ATi's site will not install and work for 3850 AGP users.

I have tickets open with Sapphire and ATi on this and while ATi is responding they are passing the buck and putting it off.
Sapphire has yet to respond to my ticket and its a nitemare to get them on the phone.
Sapphire and ATi need to communicate and get this fixed but I think Sapphire has already stopped selling the 3850 AGP.

I will be calling them tomorrow and if I dont get answer from them about the drivers not supporting the card and installing, I'm gonna send this card back to Newegg and recommend people to not buy the card.

Guess we should've known better seeing how ATi did the 2600/2900 AGP cards.


This card would be great if only ATi would support it. :(


My friends 8800GTS 512 card only gets around 10fps more than me in Crysis with the same settings on his A64 X2 4000+ and just beat my 3DMark06 SM2.0 score by 225 points and my SM3.0 score by 500 points, while his CPU score was just 680 points higher than mine.
 
Sadly Sapphire has a bad habit and a history of craptacular support. Thats why I was hoping that maybe some of the other card vendors like powercolor were going to release drivers that we could use. They probably get theirs from ATI anyhow and I doubt ATI will do anything either.

I hope I'm wrong.
 
NEVERLIFT said:
I just thought I would pop in here and let you guys know whats going on.

So far Sapphire does not seem to know or understand that the cat 8.3 drivers on their site or ATi's site will not install and work for 3850 AGP users.

I have tickets open with Sapphire and ATi on this and while ATi is responding they are passing the buck and putting it off.
Sapphire has yet to respond to my ticket and its a nitemare to get them on the phone.
Sapphire and ATi need to communicate and get this fixed but I think Sapphire has already stopped selling the 3850 AGP.

I will be calling them tomorrow and if I dont get answer from them about the drivers not supporting the card and installing, I'm gonna send this card back to Newegg and recommend people to not buy the card.

Guess we should've known better seeing how ATi did the 2600/2900 AGP cards.


This card would be great if only ATi would support it. :(


My friends 8800GTS 512 card only gets around 10fps more than me in Crysis with the same settings on his A64 X2 4000+ and just beat my 3DMark06 SM2.0 score by 225 points and my SM3.0 score by 500 points, while his CPU score was just 680 points higher than mine.
Click to expand...

Have you tried the "forced" install suggested by "pimpdad82"? This approach worked for me as I now have WHQL drivers (including 8.3 CATs) that are stable and fully operational with whatever application I load or game I play.

Also, there may be a "long line" of people that for one reason or another hesitated to buy the Sapphire that are now ready to make the plunge in spite of the drivers issue - the gains in speed and capability, even for a 'bottleneckin' P4 such as mine, are just too significant to ignore. You may be able to sell your card through ebay and actually make a profit. We the purchasing public, do not know if Sapphire will release any more cards. If they don't, that makes the few that were released exceedingly rare and thus in greater demand, influenced in part by the steller reviews posted by purchasers on the Egg's website.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102730

The 'egg' says the ETA for the PowerColor version is today, and my guess is the few they receive will fly off the shelves, leaving few if any options for those who hesitated.
 
Ejay said:
Have you tried the "forced" install suggested by "pimpdad82"? This approach worked for me as I now have WHQL drivers (including 8.3 CATs) that are stable and fully operational with whatever application I load or game I play.

Also, there may be a "long line" of people that for one reason or another hesitated to buy the Sapphire that are now ready to make the plunge in spite of the drivers issue - the gains in speed and capability, even for a 'bottleneckin' P4 such as mine, are just too significant to ignore. You may be able to sell your card through ebay and actually make a profit. We the purchasing public, do not know if Sapphire will release any more cards. If they don't, that makes the few that were released exceedingly rare and thus in greater demand, influenced in part by the steller reviews posted by purchasers on the Egg's website.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102730

The 'egg' says the ETA for the PowerColor version is today, and my guess is the few they receive will fly off the shelves, leaving few if any options for those who hesitated.
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I shouldn't have to force install drivers and thats the point. (though I have the cat 8.3 installled)
 
Personally, I dont care how I make it work as long as it does work. There are many things we shouldnt have to do.. oh maybe like patch a game on the day it comes out.. but we do..

Think is one of the biggest problems in the world of computers stuff like this and it is getting worse.
 
NEVERLIFT said:
I shouldn't have to force install drivers and thats the point. (though I have the cat 8.3 installled)
Click to expand...

You make a valid point with which I am in agreement!

However, if the period of time the cards are made available, and assuming it could be rather short, then relatively few of these cards will be sold. The fewer cards sold, the less likely ATI will incorporate support software responsive to 3850 AGP owner's needs and that provide painless driver installations - similar to the brouhaha over the 2400/2600 series AGP cards.

On the other hand, if the cards remain in production across several of the ATI partners and the numbers grow, then I expect unfettered drivers and CATs will be eventually released. Heck, they may be released in 8,4, even with a short retail lifespan...but it's anyone's guess at this point. If the relationship between AMD/ATi and its partners was closer and more strategically coordinated, we wouln't be enduring this inconvenience or having this converstation.

On the positive side, I am glad that some of the "partners" were willing to manufacture the card and that while the official WHQL 8.3s do require patience and sometimes trial and error to install, they do work, and on my system they work well. So, I'll be keeping mine.
 
Sapphire would be very foolish to prematurely discontinue this card.

Period.
 
The newest RivaTuner supports the 3850 AGP now, before this you had to edit this file for it to work with the card.

I had been using the CCC Auto Tune thing to o/c with and it limited me.
Using RivaTuner my card is o/c 825mhz core/1000mhz memory and is stable in Crysis and 3DMark06... since I'm on the stock cooler I'm gonna play it safe and run 775mhz core/950mhz memory :D
This o/c shows my cpu is bottlenecking the card somewhat, which I'm suprised to see.

With the o/c the idle temps went from 40-45c depending on room temps to 55-60c and underload the temps went from 70-75c to 81c max.
I would imagine the stock cooler is at its limits, but it's great to see it held the temps to 81c underload even at that high of an o/c.

Overclock results:
3DMark06 = 6742 this is up 140 points over my CCC Auto Tune o/c and around 350 points over stock.

Here's the Crysis GPU benchmark with the card o/c
crysisgpubenchmarkma8.jpg

This at 1280x1024 medium settings with shader on high with custom config shader that enables DX10 effects in DX9.
 
Thats awesome NEVERLIFT. I think there is a lot of headroom on these cards for sure. Thats not to shabby of temps for that little single slot cooler either, although 81C is pretty hot for my nerves. I'll probably grab one of those Cheap AC Rev 2's that everyone's crazy about if I can find one and throw it on mine when i get a chance. I doubt I'll OC it much but it can't but help to keep it cooler.

This card would be so perfect with something as simple as one click driver installation...ah such is life though.
 
Nice thread. ;) Guess I'm about to go down this dark scary path myself in a few weeks. HIS is sending one for review at 3dGM. I've never really had a great time with ATI products. My current P4 3.0GHz can clock to 4GHz, 2GB of DDR, 74GB Raptor ect.. should perform nicely. I've got so much stuff tweaked into my OS after years of Nvidia, hopefully everything will work. I was also told to use these drivers if it helps anyone here. http://download.hightech.com.hk/driver/Radeon_8_452/
 
Tivon said:
Nice thread. ;) Guess I'm about to go down this dark scary path myself in a few weeks. HIS is sending one for review at 3dGM. I've never really had a great time with ATI products. My current P4 3.0GHz can clock to 4GHz, 2GB of DDR, 74GB Raptor ect.. should perform nicely. I've got so much stuff tweaked into my OS after years of Nvidia, hopefully everything will work. I was also told to use these drivers if it helps anyone here. http://download.hightech.com.hk/driver/Radeon_8_452/
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link!
I'm all for testing drivers on this card.
 
Indeed thank you very much for the link. Hope you enjoy this card as much as I am. Im having a blast and with vista's sp1 its even getting better.
 
I installed those drivers and I think they're the cat 8.2.
Not sure.... maybe even cat 8.1? cause my own cat 8.2 from Sapphire run my games alot better than these.

EDIT:
I didn't like the performance of these drivers, alot my games lost alot fps and ran like shit.
This driver would not let me run WoW in OpenGL mode, CoD4 and Oblivion both was running really bad on this driver.

Went back to the cat 8.3 for now as they seem to run the games the smoothest and fastest.
 
I just installed the Sapphire Radeon 3850 AGP 512 mb video card with the drivers included on the disc, and I'm extremely pleased. No issues, I haven't tried AMD/ATI drivers with Catalyst 8.3yet.

COD4 MP now 55 - 80 FPS (very happy!) with the anti-aliasing off and soften smoke off at 1920*1200 on a 24" Acer X243 LCD monitor, everything else is on high/normal. But, the console settings are changed to /com_maxfps 125, /maxpackets 100, /snaps 30 and /cg_fov 80

This is with my older, but exceptional ASUS P4C800-E deluxe motherboard with an Intel Pentium 4 3.4 EE Gallatin O/C to 3.6 (212 FSB), 2 GB of OCZ PC3200 @ 2/3/2/5, an OCZ 600W PS in an Antec P182 case.

So AGP is still going strong with me.

My other computer is using an HIS Radeon X1950 512 mb AGP video card with a DFI Lanparty PRO875B rev. b, with everything else the same, and COD4 MP gets 40 - 55 FPS with same console settings.

So for you people with an older, non dual core/quad core system, I think its a reasonable temporary video card upgrade path at present. No issues, problems gaming here.
 
Although, I suspect the L3 cache on my Gallatin, in addition to the slight O/C is assisting, my reasonable fps in COD4 MP. I did however get these 3.4 EE Gallatins for $100.00/each last year, which was pretty reasonable price.
 
any one seen the HIS or Gecube cards in the wild yet? if i end up getting one, its going to be one of those 2.
 
I finally decided that I wanted to try installing the 8.3 drivers and CCC. I did the normal uninstall and driver cleaner, and installed the 8.3 driver using the manual installation. I then installed the CCC, but after install and reboot, I received the following message in a window:

Catalyst Control Centre: Host application has encountered a problem and needs to close.

I clicked on "Send Report," which it did, and then the same message popped up again. I again clicked on "Send Report" and didn't receive another message. But of course, the CCC was not running now.

I thought that perhaps I would try the Hotfix drivers, so once again uninstalled, driver cleaner, and installed the Hotfix normally (no manual installation required). However, after then installing the 8.3 CCC again, I got the same window and message as above :(

Has anyone else encountered this problem with the 8.3 CCC, and is there a solution?
 
AndonSage said:
I finally decided that I wanted to try installing the 8.3 drivers and CCC. I did the normal uninstall and driver cleaner, and installed the 8.3 driver using the manual installation. I then installed the CCC, but after install and reboot, I received the following message in a window:

Catalyst Control Centre: Host application has encountered a problem and needs to close.

I clicked on "Send Report," which it did, and then the same message popped up again. I again clicked on "Send Report" and didn't receive another message. But of course, the CCC was not running now.

I thought that perhaps I would try the Hotfix drivers, so once again uninstalled, driver cleaner, and installed the Hotfix normally (no manual installation required). However, after then installing the 8.3 CCC again, I got the same window and message as above :(

Has anyone else encountered this problem with the 8.3 CCC, and is there a solution?
Click to expand...

Were you in "Safe Mode"?
 
AndonSage said:
I finally decided that I wanted to try installing the 8.3 drivers and CCC. I did the normal uninstall and driver cleaner, and installed the 8.3 driver using the manual installation. I then installed the CCC, but after install and reboot, I received the following message in a window:

Catalyst Control Centre: Host application has encountered a problem and needs to close.

I clicked on "Send Report," which it did, and then the same message popped up again. I again clicked on "Send Report" and didn't receive another message. But of course, the CCC was not running now.

I thought that perhaps I would try the Hotfix drivers, so once again uninstalled, driver cleaner, and installed the Hotfix normally (no manual installation required). However, after then installing the 8.3 CCC again, I got the same window and message as above :(

Has anyone else encountered this problem with the 8.3 CCC, and is there a solution?
Click to expand...


The first time I tried installing the 8.3 CCC I had something like this happen and I just removed everything and before reinstalling I made sure I had the newest .net and c++ installed before trying again.

During my install of any of the drivers since I have never let them install/reinstall the .net or c++ stuff and so far that problem has not happened again.

I think what happens when you try to install the 8.3 CCC and already had the 8.2 CCC installed that the C++ or .net is getting messed with and causing this.

At the moment I'm on the cat 8.3 display driver and CCC and besides lowering my 3DMark score by 50-150 points my games are good, so good infact I'm finally getting to play my modded version of Stalker. :)
Stalker has always been a buggy game for me, but that last patch and these new drivers seem to have tamed it.
 
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