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The gaming mouse monopoly

S

spicetek

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
141
Logitech and Razer seem to have a monopoly over the gaming mouse market.. but recently I have noticed some other brands of mice that share some of the looks and features of the MX510 and the razers, but at a significantly cheaper mice. I know the logitechs and razers are quality products, but I always felt they were a little overpriced.

Does anyone use any other brands? Are they are good compared to the 'big two'?

I might edit this post if I can find more examples of what I'm talking about, they're mice I've casually noticed over the past few weeks but not mentally noted the brands. Here's a couple I just found :

Trust GM-4200 - 1600 dpi, 6 programmable buttons, design looks a bit like a crossbreed of a mx510 and a razer.. i think it looks good, and my god it is very cheap - only about $20!

mousetrust1it.jpg


RAPTOR-GAMING M1 - 1600 dpi, minimal 3 button lightweight 'hand moved' type design, looks quite nice

mouseraptor2ig.jpg


Opinions?

PS, you could say 'just google for reviews', but i prefer forum word of mouth opinions and discussion. most reviews tend to be pretty bland.. 'yeah this is a good mouse. 8/10. we got it free'
 
I would just stick with products that people use and vouch for. Theres a reason Logitech and Razor are successful, their products are good.
 
Well I think this crowd is going to be too small for a good response basis.

Two Reasons...

1)The people who buy into needing a gaming mouse and keyboard are the ones paying out the butt for them.

2)The people who don't buy into needing a "gaming" mouse and keyboard, grab decent mice at decent prices. But generally do not buy products based on pure marketing.

Thus those two mice fall in the in between, all marketing and hype surrounding them, but at a decent price.

All this gaming craze over mice and keyboard is just marketing IMO, the LCD screen on the G15 is more than proof enough, and lighted keys for people who shouldn't even look at their keyboards. Its all about show, not actual performance gains
 
Razer and Logitech products are not that expensive. Only the Crapperhead and the G5 set any milestones in the price department. You can get a MX518 or a Diamondback for like $30-$40 shipped online. It's better than buying a generic brand and finding that it skips, is poorly made and has poor customer service.
 
It's not all show. I have the Logitech 518 gaming mouse and it's great being able to change the DPI on the fly. In some games the mouse is a bit laggy, no problem, I just up the DPI on the fly to solve it. Mouse too twitchy in another game, no problem, just lower the DPI on the fly. As for the lighted keyboard, I have the Saitek Eclipse, I'm a lousy typist (we all didn't take typing 101) and quite often have to look at the keyboard to find a not so often used key. I also like to play games in low light, the Eclipse solves my problem. I had the a Logitech multi-media keyboard prior to the Saitek and it was a PITA for gaming in low light.
 
UltimaParadox said:
All this gaming craze over mice and keyboard is just marketing IMO, the LCD screen on the G15 is more than proof enough, and lighted keys for people who shouldn't even look at their keyboards. Its all about show, not actual performance gains
Click to expand...


As someone who's bought the latest and greatest mice from Logitech for the past few years (MX series, at least)...and the G5 and G15...

not all of it is marketing. the MX700 to MX1000 is the only jump I had regrets over, as well as the MX518's losing buttons for sensitivity adjustments (I gained those back in the G5, which is why I upgraded)

I don't need lit up keys....but the LCD screen showing me what MP3 I'm listening to while gaming is nice. Very nice. I don't use the G keys on the keyboard...but that keyboard has everything I want: keys easy to read in the dark, USB interface, USB hub, + LCD that allows me to view MP3s in-game.
 
i really dont like the Logitech mouses. I am really pickey about my keyboards and mouse's. I prefer Microsoft's mouse's. Though with the last version of the mosue without hte click wheel i was looking for something else, but now they are out with new lazer mouses ill stick with MS.
 
i think my logitech laser mouse was a bit of a waste of money

the laser thing = total marketing gimmick, optical resolutions were already way high enough for high end gaming, which i dont even do any more

the weights thing = total marketing gimmick, i mean wtf weighting your mouse with a tray of gram weights, what a load of rubbish!

the loss of 2 thumb buttons = bad idea, i got so used to thumbing back and forwards whilst web browsing

the sideways scrolling mouse wheeel = almost useless, ive tried to use it, it just doesnt work that well, you cant use it for leaning in games which i thought would be good, you dont have enough finger to control it. plus when do you need to scroll left / right in an app... rarely

nice shape, its comfy to put ya hand on, but its quite heavy.. definitely a 'wrist/forearm operated' style of use. i prefer flicking smaller less weighty mice around using my hand.

the resolution changing buttons.. good idea, but way to clunky to use in game. can be useful sometimes in graphics apps when you suddenly want slow precise control.. but again rarely used.

so to sum it up.. on paper its a wicked mouse, that's why i bought it, but most of the features and hence cost turned out useless :(

dont even get me started on my glowing blue saitek keyboard.. lol, i feel almost embarassed having that thing on my desk. i got the one with the seperate programmable keypad too... :eek:

think im gonna have to steal my brothers 518 :D :p
 
spicetek said:
i think my logitech laser mouse was a bit of a waste of money

the laser thing = total marketing gimmick, optical resolutions were already way high enough for high end gaming, which i dont even do any more

the weights thing = total marketing gimmick, i mean wtf weighting your mouse with a tray of gram weights, what a load of rubbish!

the loss of 2 thumb buttons = bad idea, i got so used to thumbing back and forwards whilst web browsing

the sideways scrolling mouse wheeel = almost useless, ive tried to use it, it just doesnt work that well, you cant use it for leaning in games which i thought would be good, you dont have enough finger to control it. plus when do you need to scroll left / right in an app... rarely

nice shape, its comfy to put ya hand on, but its quite heavy.. definitely a 'wrist/forearm operated' style of use. i prefer flicking smaller less weighty mice around using my hand.

the resolution changing buttons.. good idea, but way to clunky to use in game. can be useful sometimes in graphics apps when you suddenly want slow precise control.. but again rarely used.

so to sum it up.. on paper its a wicked mouse, that's why i bought it, but most of the features and hence cost turned out useless :(

dont even get me started on my glowing blue saitek keyboard.. lol, i feel almost embarassed having that thing on my desk. i got the one with the seperate programmable keypad too... :eek:

think im gonna have to steal my brothers 518 :D :p
Click to expand...



Actually, the side to side scroll buttons can be remapped to make up for the keys you lose with the 518. This was the main selling point for me. I never scroll side to side, but I find it much easier to adjust the wheel left/right than mess with 2 thumb buttons (which require actually repositioning the thumb.
 
Agreed, I find left/right side-scrolling much nicer than two thumb buttons, at least for web browsing. As for gaming, I only ever used one of the thumb buttons so meh.
 
spicetek said:
i think my logitech laser mouse was a bit of a waste of money

the laser thing = total marketing gimmick, optical resolutions were already way high enough for high end gaming, which i dont even do any more

the weights thing = total marketing gimmick, i mean wtf weighting your mouse with a tray of gram weights, what a load of rubbish!

the loss of 2 thumb buttons = bad idea, i got so used to thumbing back and forwards whilst web browsing

the sideways scrolling mouse wheeel = almost useless, ive tried to use it, it just doesnt work that well, you cant use it for leaning in games which i thought would be good, you dont have enough finger to control it. plus when do you need to scroll left / right in an app... rarely

nice shape, its comfy to put ya hand on, but its quite heavy.. definitely a 'wrist/forearm operated' style of use. i prefer flicking smaller less weighty mice around using my hand.

the resolution changing buttons.. good idea, but way to clunky to use in game. can be useful sometimes in graphics apps when you suddenly want slow precise control.. but again rarely used.

so to sum it up.. on paper its a wicked mouse, that's why i bought it, but most of the features and hence cost turned out useless :(

dont even get me started on my glowing blue saitek keyboard.. lol, i feel almost embarassed having that thing on my desk. i got the one with the seperate programmable keypad too... :eek:

think im gonna have to steal my brothers 518 :D :p
Click to expand...

If you hate it so much, stop bitching and sell it.
 
spicetek said:
dont even get me started on my glowing blue saitek keyboard.. lol, i feel almost embarassed having that thing on my desk. i got the one with the seperate programmable keypad too... :eek:

think im gonna have to steal my brothers 518 :D :p
Click to expand...

Hehe...well, yea, the Saitek Gaming keyboard back lighting is just for show. I had that keyboard and promptly returned it for the Saitek Eclipse which has the lazer etched keys
which does serve a function and is not just a showy gimmick.
 
Gatticus said:
Hehe...well, yea, the Saitek Gaming keyboard back lighting is just for show. I had that keyboard and promptly returned it for the Saitek Eclipse which has the lazer etched keys
which does serve a function and is not just a showy gimmick.
Click to expand...

What the hell would lazer etched keys get you
 
I've been using a Microsoft Laser Mouse 6000 for a few months now, and I really like it.

spicetek said:
Logitech and Razer seem to have a monopoly over the gaming mouse market..
Click to expand...
Wouldn't that be a duopoly, then?
 
I picked up a G5 last week and I think it was worth the money.

I use the left wheel fro push to talk on vent and have reprogrammed other keys as well. I like being able to change the mouse sensitivity on the fly, but have considered reprogramming that as well. I liked being able to change the weight too and tried a couple combinations until I found something I liked.

I use a speedpad for gaming, but I can see where a g15 with those programable keys would be tempting. Being able to checkout mp3's like Generaluser45 mentioned is a nice feature. If I didn't like the feel of the speedpad I'd pick that up.

maybe those etched keys give you a better 'feel' for the keyboard?
 
UltimaParadox said:
What the hell would lazer etched keys get you
Click to expand...

Laser etching is what allows the light to shine through the keys and not just around them.
 
spicetek, I would choose a logitech mouse because they have been proven to be quality mice, and their amazing customer service is worth the extra money. If your mouse ever dies, most (all?) have a 5 year warranty on them. You can call them up, explain your problem, give them serial/product numbers and they will send you a new boxed mouse, sometimes even better than the mouse you had before, free of charge. You don't even have to send your old mouse back.


spicetek said:
the laser thing = total marketing gimmick, optical resolutions were already way high enough for high end gaming, which i dont even do any more
Click to expand...
Laser mice make it easier to use the mouse on different surfaces. It helps. And when fabric hairs get stuck under the mouse, the pointer won't jump around everywhere.

the weights thing = total marketing gimmick, i mean wtf weighting your mouse with a tray of gram weights, what a load of rubbish!
Click to expand...
I don't care how much my mouse weighs, but there are a lot of people who do. My friend bought an MX1000 over his MX518, but ended up giving his MX1000 to his sister because it was too heavy for him. I sort of like the heavy mice.. light mice feel too empty :p

the loss of 2 thumb buttons = bad idea, i got so used to thumbing back and forwards whilst web browsing
Click to expand...
Yeah I agree, but if you really want a back/forward button you can just get an MX518 or an MX1000. Both should perform the same..

the sideways scrolling mouse wheeel = almost useless, ive tried to use it, it just doesnt work that well, you cant use it for leaning in games which i thought would be good, you dont have enough finger to control it. plus when do you need to scroll left / right in an app... rarely
Click to expand...
you don't HAVE to use it. It's a nice extra feature. You can program the left/right scroll click to other things that might be more useful, or just leave it unbound.


UltimaParadox said:
How is that not for show?
Click to expand...
Lighted keys help you see them in the dark. I use a G15, and the lighted keys make it easier when I'm setting my hand position or when I am pressing numbers or other odd keys.. I don't look at the keyboard when I type but it does help. And you can just turn it off if you really don't want it :)
 
ChingChang said:
Lighted keys help you see them in the dark. I use a G15, and the lighted keys make it easier when I'm setting my hand position or when I am pressing numbers or other odd keys.. I don't look at the keyboard when I type but it does help. And you can just turn it off if you really don't want it :)
Click to expand...


Thats what the indentation on the f and j keys are for, to make sure your hands are rested in the correct position.

I suppose the light only serves a purpose to the people who look at their keyboards.
 
UltimaParadox said:
I suppose the light only serves a purpose to the people who look at their keyboards.
Click to expand...

/me waves :(

Mine has completely clear laptop keys with a blue backlighting. I hate big keyed boards.
 
pssst: its called a monopoly when 1 company controls something, not 2.
 
UltimaParadox said:
Thats what the indentation on the f and j keys are for, to make sure your hands are rested in the correct position.

I suppose the light only serves a purpose to the people who look at their keyboards.
Click to expand...
Yes, I know that. But since I am not blind and my eyes move faster than my fingers, quickly looking down at the keyboard to find my hand position is easier than feeling around for the two keys.
 
UltimaParadox said:
How is that not for show?
Click to expand...

Rude tone noted. You don't play computer games with your two index fingers rested on the home keys. Not all of us took typing 101 with the girls at school. Does that answer your question?
 
Gatticus said:
Rude tone noted. You don't play computer games with your two index fingers rested on the home keys. Not all of us took typing 101 with the girls at school. Does that answer your question?
Click to expand...

Rude tone.... Its an obvious question since there is no actual physical advantages for a lighted keyboard.

And the typing 101 insult, is a bit out of place. You would figure that the amount of time people on these boards spend on computers that the vast majority are proficent typers. But hey if you look down at your keyboard that is fine, its just that saying since the keyboard lights up makes it a better keyboard, just seems to be pointless.
 
Getting back to the original poster's question about how those cheaper mice handled....
Well, the term: "you get what you pay for" applies.

I have experienced many replicas like this and the reason they are so cheap is because the optical tracking engine is not of the same quality as the ones used in Logitech and Microsoft mice (i think the one that razer uses is crap, at least on the first razer optical i had... it skipped like crazy. They might of fixed this since then)

Anyways, the cheaper mice have cheaper optical sensors, dont believe the '1600 DPI' hype.
Also, they often have cheaper plastic & build quality, which matters when you click a mouse button 1000000 times. (i must click over 1000 times every time i get into a huge FFA session of quake 4)
Finally, warranty, as someone mentioned, if your mouse breaks in 7 months (which is more likely), then good luck getting a brand new one free of charge.

Personally, I wouldn't buy it just because of the optical sensor, i need the most precision and they tend to use cheap optical sensors that skip.

When you think about it, the MX 518, even at 40$ is REALLY cheap. It's an instrument, a tool, I just bought a cheap squash racket for $90 and i'm sure there's much less involved in making a squash racket than there is making an optical mouse.
 
I see a lot of hatred for G5 people.

Seriously, one of the best things about this mouse, is the SOFTWARE.

I have seen so many people complain about it not having two thumb buttons, and mostly they complain about them because they used them for back/forward in a web browser.

I have a couple problems with that.

First of all, most of those people also say that they do not value side to side scrolling much.
I would agree with that.

Are you forgetting that the mouse can change it's button properties based on what application you are running? Such as, your web browser?

Click the setpoint icon on the system tray, and select the mouse icon on the top left.
One way is to make buttons 5 and 6 be.......back and forward. These two buttons are the left scroll and right scroll of the mouse wheel. Personally I do this because it also lets you use that option in windows explorer such as browsing folders.
For button 4, I have mine selected as "Start Menu". I will change this, but since I just reformatted and installed, I'm constantly having to access it.

Have you noticed the button that says "manage programs"? It's not just for games! It's for any application, all it does is change the properties based off what is the active program. I love this feature, and I use it both in my keyboard (logitech G15) and my mouse. It's very nice for shortcut heavy programs such as adobe premiere. I doubt I will ever use another type of mouse and keyboard just for that reason alone.

Click add programs, and browse to....firefox.exe Change the options there, for firefox I found it very nice to make button 4 (the side button) be set to "Page Down". I don't need sensitivity changes for a web browser, and I very rarely use them when I do. For firefox.exe thoes buttons are set to other things that I commonly use when I am using firefox.

There are all kinds of uses for it. I am VERY fond of the fact that you can get ALL of the buttons to work in games, without fail, no matter what the game is. Worst case scenario, you can make a profile for the game itself, and map the key you want to a keyboard shortcut like shift-t or something. I've had an mx510 for a long time, and even with the logitech advanced mouse software, some games just would NOT let you use the top thumb button, or it would be the exact same thing as the bottom thumb button.

The only time I've personally used the sensitivity options much is with star wars battlefront2, especially when I was playing a class with a long distance rifle. I would have HATED playing that game without that option. I don't play FPS shooters much anymore, but I'm sure many people would feel the same way about similiar games.

As far as people commenting on the weight change being stupid, let me ask you this. Use the mouse with the cartridge in, and all of the weights removed. Use it for a day. Then use the mouse with all of the heavy weights in. Can you seriously say that there is not a difference? Most people would really not like it. The weights are there for a very specific reason, and to say they are there for people who prefer to move a mouse around with their "arm" or their "hand" is silly. Since that is exactly why the weights are there. But they are there for another reason:

Not every desk surface is the same. If you have a very smooth desk surface or pad, you'll probably want the mouse to be a little heavier, so it does not move around except when you want it to.This can happen with a mouse that has a cord, no matter what you do.
 
I'm a proud owner of a Logitech G-5 and i think its the best gaming mouse out there...The laser is very effective...I can even lift the mouse off my desk about an inch or so and it still works (not that you would need to). The optional weights are magnificent. A weighty mouse gives you more sense of control and precision. Also, the G-5 lets you mouse on almost any smooth surface due to the nice slide pads underneath it. Programming and on the fly sensitivity adjustment speaks for itself. I'm not saying that other mice are not effective but the G-5 does it slightly better...for my purposes anyway.
Also an owner of the Saitek Eclipse..There's nothing gimmicky abut the backlightling....especially for those of us who game and surf in low light on a consistent basis..you can also turn off the backlighting if you want. No do-nothing-I'll-never-use gimmicky internet buttons..Its also nice and weighty...pure keyboard.

People shouldn't hate on peripherals unless thery are pure trash, simply cheap and should be avoided. Yet they should be happy that there are a variety of peripherals to fit individual needs...
 
I forgot to mention about the backlighting on my G15. I have been touch typing since the days of dial-up bbs's, where I first got into computer gaming, I got sucked into majormud. Did a lot of typing then, and while I never took an official typing class until 6 or 7 years later, I've always typed very fast. With my previous keyboard which was a bit softer, I typed 120 WPM with no errors according to Mavis Beacon. I am sure that my speed is quite lower on my G15 because of how the keys are, but the backlight actually does help, even for me.

It's not that I need to look for where the Q button is or anything, but I think the soft lighting does help maintain a better "home row" style position that noone really seems to have. My hands don't move around so much. It's just a slight thing, but I've had my keyboard for a while now and even during the day I do prefer the keys to be lit. And besides, most everyone at least glances at the keyboard every once in a while, the keys being lit even during the day does make that "process" faster and more natural.
 
UltimaParadox said:
Thats what the indentation on the f and j keys are for, to make sure your hands are rested in the correct position.

I suppose the light only serves a purpose to the people who look at their keyboards.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they tell you that your hands are properly placed, they don't help you with that initial placement, though.

Getting to the home row quickly in a dark environment is what good lighted keys are for.

I'm not looking at them to figure out how to type, I'm looking at them to figure out exactly where the keyboard is after letting go of the joystick and throttle to switch to the keyboard.
 
Gatticus said:
Rude tone noted. You don't play computer games with your two index fingers rested on the home keys. Not all of us took typing 101 with the girls at school. Does that answer your question?
Click to expand...


Priceless............
:cool:
 
Dark Prodigy said:
I'm a proud owner of a Logitech G-5 and i think its the best gaming mouse out there...The laser is very effective...I can even lift the mouse off my desk about an inch or so and it still works (not that you would need to).
Click to expand...

Haha, I was just messing with that the other day. I would say closer to a millimeter or two, but still, the whole mouse isn't touching any surface. It's fun to play with sometimes. :D

IMO, the majority of people who say that they will never use a G5/G7 because it only has one thumb button... have never actually used it for a day or two.

Nice job, AsusUser.
 
UltimaParadox said:
Rude tone.... Its an obvious question since there is no actual physical advantages for a lighted keyboard.
Click to expand...

Except for gaming in the dark. Are you always this hard-headed? Or are you just this hell-bent on proving that the G15 is a gimmick?
 
Stellar said:
Except for gaming in the dark. Are you always this hard-headed? Or are you just this hell-bent on proving that the G15 is a gimmick?
Click to expand...

How the hell does it gain you anything in the dark, I dont even look down at my keyboard when I am playing. WASD has been the standard for a long time. I would think that majority of other players don't either.

I guess I must make the assumption if you use a G15 you are not a proficent typer. Besides that this entire thread was on the point that a lot of agree that these so called "gaming" devices are not worth the price you are paying.
 
UltimaParadox said:
How the hell does it gain you anything in the dark, I dont even look down at my keyboard when I am playing? I would think that majority of other players don't either.
Click to expand...
If you take your hands off the keyboard, looking back down is an easy way to find hand positioning again. Yes you can just find the bumps on F and J, but a lot of people don't really want to feel around when they can just quickly glance at the keyboard for a second. I never really need to look down at the keyboard to find my hand positioning, but when it is dark and I am trying to hit a key that I don't normally press (shift + 1-0), the light does help. Without a lighted keyboard, I would have to look closely and use the light from my monitor. It can be done, but G15 makes it a lot easier.

I guess it is the same reason why I think the Das Keyboard is worse than any normal keyboard with the keys printed on it.
 
ChingChang said:
If you take your hands off the keyboard, looking back down is an easy way to find hand positioning again. Yes you can just find the bumps on F and J, but a lot of people don't really want to feel around when they can just quickly glance at the keyboard for a second. I never really need to look down at the keyboard to find my hand positioning, but when it is dark and I am trying to hit a key that I don't normally press (shift + 1-0), the light does help. Without a lighted keyboard, I would have to look closely and use the light from my monitor. It can be done, but G15 makes it a lot easier.

I guess it is the same reason why I think the Das Keyboard is worse than any normal keyboard with the keys printed on it.
Click to expand...

only if you can be truly hardcore, can you actually utilize the das keyboard. i believe those are mainly gimmicks, since sometimes you actually do need a second looking at the keyboard when you type. especially an error into something.
 
UltimaParadox said:
How the hell does it gain you anything in the dark, I dont even look down at my keyboard when I am playing. WASD has been the standard for a long time. I would think that majority of other players don't either.

I guess I must make the assumption if you use a G15 you are not a proficent typer. Besides that this entire thread was on the point that a lot of agree that these so called "gaming" devices are not worth the price you are paying.
Click to expand...

Christ, you are this hard-headed.

Not everyone plays all games with just four keys and their hands in the same position the entire time. Some people glance at the keyboard once in a while, whether they even need to or not. Just because you don't, doesn't mean others don't.

Personally I use a helluva lot more than WASD. I play ET in Leagues, my config uses almost every key on the keyboard including the number pad and all the functions keys.

I also play BF2 with a joystick, meaning I take my hands off the keyboard and put them back a lot.
 
Stellar said:
I also play BF2 with a joystick, meaning I take my hands off the keyboard and put them back a lot.
Click to expand...

I am sure once most people have their hands down on the keyboard there is not much looking down as that will take too much time unless you are playing something like a turn-based strategy game because even in games that require a signficant amount of keys such as MMORPGS, you still make the keys close to your hands so that you do not have to look down.

Now when you move your hands from one device to another should be the only time that a lighted keyboard may help, but even then do you actually look down. It takes all but 2 seconds to find the home row. Maybe I am in the minority here, but I surely doubt it with the amount of time people spend on their computers.
 
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