The final ANTEC vs OCZ thread!

[computerpro3]

Oh, NO, you mentioned OCZ's history...

Now you've done it

(Grabs popcorn)

 

[DirtMerchant]

even if I had a test that showed the PowerStream was as good as the TurboCool, I still wouldn't buy it over the PC P&C because OCZ has such a bad reputation

Please explain this comment more. Perhaps a few links to valid reviews? In my experience, OCZ has been an excellent company providing enthusiasts with some of the best products and technologies available on the market. It is really hard to take anyone here seriously when they just throw out comments and opinions with no information to back themselves up. Until you've provided atleast "some" decent proof then I would reccommend that anyone reading this thread completely disregard EnderW's post until he can provide some evidence that "OCZ has such a bad reputation". That statement is a farce.

 

[computerpro3]

basically they've had an extremley shady past with several flat out lies such as their 99% silver thermal paste with 0% silver content and mis-labeling memory and the like

HOWEVER

They are now under new management, and have cleaned up their act more than considerably as far as support goes.

 

[Jasonx82]

Oh, NO, you mentioned OCZ's history...

Now you've done it

(Grabs popcorn)

 

[Ice Czar]

That statement is a farce.

err...
more like common history
old "history" but true, it however had nothing to do with Power Supplies

OCZ seems to have turned a new leaf,
but many enthusiasts have long memories
Id pefer that this thread not open old wounds,
especially when it seems to have little bearing on the specifics at hand

If you choose to "vote" with your dollars, its your choice
but tarring and feathering a firm that has changed ownership for the sins of the father...

 

[EnderW]

basically they've had an extremley shady past with several flat out lies such as their 99% silver thermal paste with 0% silver content and mis-labeling memory and the like

yeah I've heard of a lot of stuff like that on different forums

and it just seems like a lot of their products are extremely cheesy because they're all painted gold or silver, have flashy LEDs, etc which to me is the computer equivelent of slapping a type R sticker on your stock honda civic

I haven't had any bad experiences with them, so I really don't have anything against them, there just isn't any reason to buy something from them when I can get the same thing or better from a more reputable company

and I've heard a lot of positive things lately, but it seems the people defending them are often the immature, quick to flame type which doesn't help anything as far as my opinion of them

I'm taking a wait and see attitude, I hope they put out quality products and do well, as everyone would benefit from that

 

[sabrewolf732]

even if I had a test that showed the PowerStream was as good as the TurboCool, I still wouldn't buy it over the PC P&C because OCZ has such a bad reputation

maybe a long time ago, now they dont. Ask anyone that has had to deal with ocz tech support and they will tell you ocz is great. People still cant stop thinking about the past, ocz is great now

 

[BillR]

My recollections of OCZ’s history go way back. What they marketed that was good was usually very good, but they did have their down side. I still keep an old Slot “A” HSF around to stare at from time to time; massive is the only way to describe it. I also remember spending a lot of money on what was basically worthless ram as well.

It’s hard not to let past experience taint your perception.

I saw Ice brought up the use of an oscilloscope, that’s a neat tool. That’s where you quickly learn a sine wave that isn’t a well-formed curve is “a bad thing”. What I really find funny on most PSUs is the very apparent switching noise that is omnipresent on these new PSU’s, noise that would be totally unacceptable in a cheap audio product. Also worthy of mention is Ice’s comment about a variac, it’s really strange to see phase shifts on input voltage drops and or overloads.

Those are the kinds of reviews that have teeth, but you don’t see too many.

 

[Spec3]

and it just seems like a lot of their products are extremely cheesy because they're all painted gold or silver, have flashy LEDs, etc which to me is the computer equivelent of slapping a type R sticker on your stock honda civic

Are you talking about the corsairs ram with the LEDS?

I was looking over at XS last night and found the original thread where they introduced the OCZ power supplies. The OCZ rep there said that they were not trying to compete with PC P&C in terms of specs etc but they figured the price/performace level was better than what PC P&C was offering.....

Annnnnnnyways just my 7.2cents

 

[computerpro3]

agree about the corsair memory. I personally won't buy it. I like the understated look of my mushkin 2-2-2-5 just fine

 

[WarLust]

maybe a long time ago, now they dont. Ask anyone that has had to deal with ocz tech support and they will tell you ocz is great. People still cant stop thinking about the past, ocz is great now

I'd have to agree with this. Sean from OCZ personally helped me with my memory a couple months ago when I bought this new system. I initially bought PC4000 Rev. 2 Gold Series RAM and 1 of the 512 MB DIMMS was faulty, causing massive errors in Memtest. Through email and phone, I discussed the problems to him and he shipped some new PC3200 Platinum Series Rev. 2 modules, which cost more than my original ones at the time, in exchange for sending my bad set when the new one's arrived within a few days - that is customer service!

 

[Ice Czar]

now I do question one recent development
from what I understand the OCZ DDR Booster employs the -5V rail?
a rail that has been eliminated in the ATX12V v2.01 spec

seems ASUS also got caught out on that one as well, at least on one mobo

 

[Spec3]

-5V is used for the LED readout but the booster still works without it. The booster was designed long before the new PSU specs came out though so maybe they will release a rev 2 booster that doesn't need the -5v??

 

[lopoetve]

Your opinion is worthless. It would be just like me praising nvidia.

By your logic, your claims on the OCZ are worthless too.



I'm with Ice on this one, go Antec.,

 

[lopoetve]

Hey fella's. I did a review on the OCZ PowerStream 520. You can read it here

http://www.hardwaremods.com/

I also owned a PCP&C 510 Deluxe (sold for $180 on ebay). I love my OCZ 520! It's an awesome PSU, IMHO better and much more affordable than the overhyped PCP&C 510 Deluxe. If you disagree that is fine with me, but my rig i more stable now than it was before and my rails are the most stable they have ever been.

Here is a quick screenshot of my voltages

Here is what I am running in my rig:

P4 2.6C @ 3.51Ghz | 1.6v
Zalman CNPS7000B-Cu | 23C Idle - 28C Load
1Gb Dual Channel OCZ PC4200 3-4-3-7 | 2.6v | 1:1
DFI LANPartyPro 875P fully sinked
eVGA GeForce 6800GT volt modded with NV5 Silencer @ 435Mhz - 1.13Ghz
Audigy2 ZS Soundcard
SONY DVD-RW Drive
LG DVD Drive
2x 120Gb WD Hard Drives in RAID 0
2x UV CCFL's
8x 80mm Fans

My voltages are rock solid no matter how much I stress this machine. In fact when I did that review I wound up frying my 3.2E Prescott in the process because of the amount of load I put on it while overclocked. The entire time the PSU never even so much as made a hiccup. When I jad a PCP&C 510 my 3.3v rails would drop alot and my 12v rail was lower than I wanted. Even when I tweaked the pots it would drop under stress.

Flame away but I stand by my tests and my OCZ 520. Antec PSUs are garbage if you are a serious hardware tweaker.

That review is totally useless. Software sensors do NOT work.

dude, have you read any ocz powerstream reviews
I think you havent which is pretty evident from all the crap you are taking about ocz. every review I have read and every person I know that has one is very happy with it and the voltages are right on the money.

find a REAL review, please. Hit up silentpcreview, etc. they're ok, but they're not all that when it comes to the internals. At least, not up there with the PCP&C like some have claimed.

and welcome as well!

 

[DirtMerchant]

By your logic, your claims on the OCZ are worthless too.



I'm with Ice on this one, go Antec.,

I would take an OCZ 520 over an Antec 550 ANYDAY!. I had an Antec almost blow up on me. When I installed my PCP&C 510 it was not a problem. The only thing I noticed was the rails were a little sketchy. So far my OCZ beats them both.

 

[sabrewolf732]

That review is totally useless. Software sensors do NOT work.



find a REAL review, please. Hit up silentpcreview, etc. they're ok, but they're not all that when it comes to the internals. At least, not up there with the PCP&C like some have claimed.

and welcome as well!

Ocz's internals look great from what I have seen, they use MASSIVE heat sinks.

 

[lopoetve]

Ocz's internals look great from what I have seen, they use MASSIVE heat sinks.

They're pretty normal sized, from the looks of it at SPCR. I was wrong, and I stand corrected.


I still would never buy one.

I would take an OCZ 520 over an Antec 550 ANYDAY!. I had an Antec almost blow up on me. When I installed my PCP&C 510 it was not a problem. The only thing I noticed was the rails were a little sketchy. So far my OCZ beats them both.

I wouldn't touch an OCZ anything (except ram) ever. Too much sketchy history, too many ripoffs, and too many odd questions about what they make. And not all the specs are that great on them. Plus, add in the reluctance to release information on the actual specs on the product makes me a little reluctant to trust them.

PCP&C/Antec/Fortron/Sparke for me. Only. Why buy from a company with a known probematic past, when you can get an equal product for the same price from another company without the history?

 

[xonik]

Why buy from a company with a known probematic past, when you can get an equal product for the same price from another company without the history?

Because who are you to judge whether OCZ's power supply products are better, worse, or equal to that of companies you trust? This is more of a devil's advocate question, but you offer nothing to support your claim about OCZ's power supplies, and power supplies can hardly be judged subjectively, as you just did.

 

[shade]

well he did say the history of the company was bad and there were alot of problems ppl had with them back then. i think that is all HE needs to make his claims. i mean if someone(a good friend) tells u not to buy from this merchant becuz he got ripped off. are u goin to go see for urself? some may say they will but im sure the majority will agree with me when i say we will stay away from this merchant.

 

[computerpro3]

This is why a company's performance and actions in the past matter

put it this way:

Go buy a deer psu and stick it into your computer. What? No? Why not?

Because 9 out of 10 of their supplies fail an dthey overrate their psu's by 90%? Well, that doesn't mean anything about yours, who's to say you'll get a bad one? All the other psu's they sold have no bearing on the one you'll get, so I don't see what you're complaining about...

See how dumb that sounds?

You obviously aren't going to say that deer makes a good psu or rates their psu's honestly, or you are an utter fool (which I don't believe you are). Why? Because they performed crappy in the past. Thats all you have to go on when deciding a product, there's no way to know how yours will perform. It's all about calculating riske:

My pcp&c has a 1% failure rate in the past, where the deer has a 90% failure rate. Which would you pick? Deer lied in the past, PCP&C has built a reputation for honesty. Again, which would you pick?

Now I'm not saying that this should be the determining factor in your purchasing decision, especially since OCZ seems to have done a total 180 from where they have been, but theres no denying that a company's past is worth looking into.

 

[lopoetve]

Because who are you to judge whether OCZ's power supply products are better, worse, or equal to that of companies you trust? This is more of a devil's advocate question, but you offer nothing to support your claim about OCZ's power supplies, and power supplies can hardly be judged subjectively, as you just did.

Who am I? I'm the one spending the money, that's who. Why should I give my money to a place with a shady and unscrupulous past, when I can give the same money to a company with an equal product that has never done anything to compromise consumer trust?

well he did say the history of the company was bad and there were alot of problems ppl had with them back then. i think that is all HE needs to make his claims. i mean if someone(a good friend) tells u not to buy from this merchant becuz he got ripped off. are u goin to go see for urself? some may say they will but im sure the majority will agree with me when i say we will stay away from this merchant.

Once, shame on them. Twice, shame on me.

I don't buy from companies that betrayed their support base. It takes a long time for them to make amends.

 

[Spec3]

And not all the specs are that great on them.

Which specs would those be? I see the specs as very comparable to PC P&C on some levels and better on some and worse on others. Obviously nobody is going to make a PSU like PC P&C so stop bashing OCZ because they aren't PC P&C

Why dont you leave you anti OCZ crap out of one stinking thread....it's almost like you come on here every day and search for any OCZ posts and they go post your same on rehtoric that you have been posting the last 3 years. Personally I'm sick of you and your posts and I know a LOT of others who feel the same.

nuff said

 

[lopoetve]

Which specs would those be? I see the specs as very comparable to PC P&C on some levels and better on some and worse on others. Obviously nobody is going to make a PSU like PC P&C so stop bashing OCZ because they aren't PC P&C

Why dont you leave you anti OCZ crap out of one stinking thread....it's almost like you come on here every day and search for any OCZ posts and they go post your same on rehtoric that you have been posting the last 3 years. Personally I'm sick of you and your posts and I know a LOT of others who feel the same.

nuff said

1. I haven't posted in a PSU thread in a while
2. I later admitted I was wrong, if you've learned how to read in between your incoherent rants. They still don't publish many of the specs...
3. Then use ignore and stop responding. It'll certainly save me the trouble of responding back. And how would you know? You joined in june of this year, and 3 years ago I wasn't posting much about OCZ because everyone already avoided them, and I was really only posting in cars... Maybe you should check your info before you post next time?

 

[Spec3]

1. I haven't posted in a PSU thread in a while
2. I later admitted I was wrong, if you've learned how to read in between your incoherent rants. They still don't publish many of the specs...
3. Then use ignore and stop responding. It'll certainly save me the trouble of responding back. And how would you know? You joined in june of this year, and 3 years ago I wasn't posting much about OCZ because everyone already avoided them, and I was really only posting in cars... Maybe you should check your info before you post next time?

True 3 years was an exageration, but the point was more general that you don't seem to find an end to these posts. I mean you said yourself

don't buy from companies that betrayed their support base. It takes a long time for them to make amends

So maybe for you it's not that time, but for the rest of us I think we would appreciate not being force fed you posts all the time.

Now I'll leave this well enough alone since we don't agree and it won't solve anything craping this tread. So have a nice day

 

[BillR]

Who writes what and who reads what is totally up to each individual’s interest and control, that’s the beauty of this system.

One man’s opinion is always a fact in that one man’s mind. That is simply based on each of our own perceptions of reality.

Most people find it very hard to take anyone’s word or thought over what they “believe” even when what they believe is known by the majority to be wrong.

It’s called Human Nature.

What amazes me about this thread is how many people are claiming to have “blown up” their power supply. In my experience just about every blown power supply someone hands me is just fine. I as a rule find other problems when I look deeper. It’s damn hard to totally break a good one, they are too well protected.

And this post lives on………….

 

[iddqd]

And you're hardforum's version of GWB - we go from foreign policy to education.

correct, and I if I'm bush I graduated from yale and harvard and you have:

degreelessness mode on

But don't worry, I'll school you

Main Entry: 1su·pe·ri·or
Pronunciation: su-'pir-E-&r
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French superieur, from Latin superior, comparative of superus upper, from super over, above -- more at OVER
1 : situated higher up : UPPER
2 : of higher rank, quality, or importance

I bet Language class is what's keeping you from that degree

I was referring to you changing the topic from Antec vs OCZ, to PCP&C vs world, so to speak. [offtopic]I wonder how GWB got through both universities.. What New England university would accepta poorly-achieving student from a very powerful family? Luckily, all of them. He's still a very poorly educated man, at best. He does know what we read on our "internets", though. [/end offtopic]
Either way, I was referring to you hijacking the thread, and if you didn't see the obvious analogy (obvious, because I blatantly pointed it out, just for you), you must be as bright as a wet match in a cave, indeed. Yet again, Webster's definition of superior is hardly at all relevant; I do happen to know what superior means; even though I speak Russian as my first language.

And what on Earth is wrong with degreelessness mode? (other than not having a degree in anything, of course)

 

[xonik]

Who am I? I'm the one spending the money, that's who. Why should I give my money to a place with a shady and unscrupulous past, when I can give the same money to a company with an equal product that has never done anything to compromise consumer trust?

Way to dodge the question. Who are you to judge a power supply on its performance, when all you've got is your experience with a company on the customer service front? Have you opened up the power supply and run tests of your own?

This is what the Power Supply forum is about. We should make a Companies forum, where you can post what you want about companies. Meanwhile, we are discussing power supplies...

 

[shade]

once again the factors ppl take into acc while deciding what to purchase is solely up to the consumer. it is pretty dumb tho to tell ppl to not take into account the past of the company, i gave an example in a previous post in this thread... altho im sure everyone realize that some companies can change and become a good company and it seems OCZ has done that from what ppl have been posting. i do not need to purchase a PSU by OCZ and test it to believe what so many others tell me. i beleive the majority becuz I PERSONALLY take other ppls experiences into acc b4 i purchase and it also formulate my posts.

 

[BillR]

once again the factors ppl take into acc while deciding what to purchase is solely up to the consumer. it is pretty dumb tho to tell ppl to not take into account the past of the company, i gave an example in a previous post in this thread... altho im sure everyone realize that some companies can change and become a good company and it seems OCZ has done that from what ppl have been posting. i do not need to purchase a PSU by OCZ and test it to believe what so many others tell me. i beleive the majority becuz I PERSONALLY take other ppls experiences into acc b4 i purchase and it also formulate my posts.

So in that case you would have purchased a Yugo?

 

[xonik]

i do not need to purchase a PSU by OCZ and test it to believe what so many others tell me. i beleive the majority becuz I PERSONALLY take other ppls experiences into acc b4 i purchase and it also formulate my posts.

Well, many people have trouble-free experiences with all kinds of power supplies without our advice, or if they just choose a power supply from word-of-mouth suggestions. I would like to think that people who visit the Power Supply forum have an interest in what is inside the box, rather than who makes the box, but perhaps that's naive.

I don't think that you need to test out the power supply before you buy, but there's a difference between discussing a power supply by who makes it, and discussing a power supply by its own merits. And thankfully there are a few review sites that will do the testing for you, but I think that in order to make any credible claims about the power supply itself you need to stick with the objective results and avoid basing the better part of a claim on reputation alone.

 

[DirtMerchant]

That review is totally useless. Software sensors do NOT work.



find a REAL review, please. Hit up silentpcreview, etc. they're ok, but they're not all that when it comes to the internals. At least, not up there with the PCP&C like some have claimed.

and welcome as well!

Did you even read the review? I used a multimeter for all of the reading I took. The only thing worthless was your response.

And also, I will listen to what IceCzar has to say on this subject more than anyone else here, since he seems to be the "most" informed on power supplies. Just read his incredibly detailed sticky and you'll see he has done alot of research.

If I had the money I would purchase a bunch of PSU testing equipment and start my own review site, but right now I can only test them using "ghetto" methods. From my own testing and experience I can honestly say (regardless of specs) that the OCZ 520W PSU is an excellent supply and is definitely better than any Antec I have ever used.

 

[Ice Czar]

Just read his incredibly detailed sticky and you'll see he has done alot of research.

the incerdibly detailed sticky is burningrave101's the rambling disjointed rant is mine


general note
spirited discussion is allowed, and sometimes even encouraged (often revealing new information)
but there is no reason for it to get personal
my personal opinion is that the Topower\Powerstream line are damn fine supplies
I dislike not being able to determine exactly how good they are, and take exception to any company that employs spin with too heavy a hand, but I would point out that
they offer one of the best warrantys going (3 year total coverage + 2 years labor)
that they have changed ownership (should have changed names with that IMO)
and seem dedicated to exemplary support, now if they where just more forthcoming on the specs

 

[lopoetve]

True 3 years was an exageration, but the point was more general that you don't seem to find an end to these posts. I mean you said yourself


So maybe for you it's not that time, but for the rest of us I think we would appreciate not being force fed you posts all the time.

Now I'll leave this well enough alone since we don't agree and it won't solve anything craping this tread. So have a nice day

It's my opinion, and when someone asks for opinions, I will give it. Have a nice day yourself!

Way to dodge the question. Who are you to judge a power supply on its performance, when all you've got is your experience with a company on the customer service front? Have you opened up the power supply and run tests of your own?

This is what the Power Supply forum is about. We should make a Companies forum, where you can post what you want about companies. Meanwhile, we are discussing power supplies...

No, that was the key to the question. This is a forum with both facts and opinion.
FACT: OCZ betrayed their customer base, lied, false advertized, etc.
OPINION: Because of that, I will never buy one again because I don't trust them.

FACT: Deer makes bad powersupplies, and always has (historically).
FACT: I have a deer that came with a system that is still running, after 4 years.
OPINION: I will never buy a deer, I know their history, even though I happen to be a lucky one with one that is still running.

What's the difference between those 2?

I use the fact to make my opinion, and when people ask, I share it. Same as you. Same as everyone else (Ice did the same in this very thread).

Did you even read the review? I used a multimeter for all of the reading I took. The only thing worthless was your response.

And also, I will listen to what IceCzar has to say on this subject more than anyone else here, since he seems to be the "most" informed on power supplies. Just read his incredibly detailed sticky and you'll see he has done alot of research.

If I had the money I would purchase a bunch of PSU testing equipment and start my own review site, but right now I can only test them using "ghetto" methods. From my own testing and experience I can honestly say (regardless of specs) that the OCZ 520W PSU is an excellent supply and is definitely better than any Antec I have ever used.

All I saw were normal software readings... Winbond hardware detector, to be exact.

It also doesn't cover any of the things mentioned in the sticky to look for, other than voltages. I appreciate that you're trying, and I actually read that site occasionally (and like your reviews), but IMHO those reviews are really hard to do for the general person...

And Ice recommended the Antec in this very thread, over the OCZ, so if you're going with what he said, your last statement is wrong.

Sorry if I came off as offensive, I just don't want to see someone get taken by a company that has more than often enough historically proved that they don't care much about reputation...

 

[Ice Czar]

well per some new information
(the rating temperature) they are now much closer in my mind
coming down to the advantages of dual rails on the Neopower vs the Higher amps of the Powerstream, Im not yet convinced that the Antecs are inferior however

now if I had some real info regarding how the AC Ripple was measured and any improvement in the transient response the Powerstream might have over the baseline Topower P6, it might take the lead

I too would like to aquire the tools to actually start reviewing supplies
I see a need for destructive testing
but past that Ive been attempting to judge supplies in a vacuum of information
with multiple baselines, marketing spin and incomplete independent reviews
as Mike Chin has pointed out, this is hard science, and there is really no reason it cant be definatively judged, its just that enthusiasts arent there yet

 

[burningrave101]

No, that was the key to the question. This is a forum with both facts and opinion.
FACT: OCZ betrayed their customer base, lied, false advertized, etc.
OPINION: Because of that, I will never buy one again because I don't trust them.

ATI and nVidia do that on a day to day basis so i guess you better never buy another video card from ither of them.

ATI put down nVidia for using "brilinear" filtering all last year with the NV30 series while claiming to do full trilinear filtering on their part. Well we found out early this year through some rather discreet testing that it was a load of BS and ATI had been lieing all along. They now use the same adaptive "brilinear" filtering on the new X800 cores.

You shouldn't buy hardware according to a company's past reputation. You should buy it according to current performance.

 

[iddqd]

ATI and nVidia do that on a day to day basis so i guess you better never buy another video card from ither of them.

ATI put down nVidia for using "brilinear" filtering all last year with the NV30 series while claiming to do full trilinear filtering on their part. Well we found out early this year through some rather discreet testing that it was a load of BS and ATI had been lieing all along. They now use the same adaptive "brilinear" filtering on the new X800 cores.

You shouldn't buy hardware according to a company's past reputation. You should buy it according to current performance.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Who cares if OCZ had a terrible reputation in the past? I'd buy a PSU made by the Al-Queda, if it performed better.

 

[MeanieMan]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Who cares if OCZ had a terrible reputation in the past? I'd buy a PSU made by the Al-Queda, if it performed better.

Ditto.
Management changes to often to base a company on the past. If everyone went with past experiences BFG would never have made it about since less then 3 years ago they had the smallest budget of all card manufacturers and released everything based on the standard nvidia design.

 

[BillR]

"snip"
Mike Chin has pointed out, this is hard science, and there is really no reason it cant be definatively judged, its just that enthusiasts arent there yet

The need for high current very stable power supplies became obvious to the HiFi and Video enthusiasts many years ago (dark ages even, the early 70”s). Once that fact became widely recognized major changes occurred from the “players” in the market place.

There is certainly no lack of enthusiasm here in this or other forums like it.

I know there are a few reps that hang out in forums from time to time but perhaps a few well-placed Emails to the various companies involved might be appropriate. There are many of us, few of them.

Perhaps if the management (or ownership) of those various companies could be made to feel our needs………. It would be a wonderful thing to see companies building product with real specs and less “hyperbole” (One of Ice Czar’s favorite words I think). Not to mention incentive to build better products all around.

Hey, I can dream right?

And as the man once said "it don't cost nothin"

 

[rogue_jedi]

what i want in a psu:
-good replacement policy
-able to run in adverse power conditions (my house's AC sucks - it seems to be hard on electronics) for long periods of time (>1 year, preferably)
-able to provide decent voltages at suboptimal temperatures/conditions - my room gets really hot in the winter, so the window stays open to keep temps down -> higher humidity (or something like that)
-doesn't cost arm+leg

so which one does this? i'd say fortron, actually. psus i'd get now: fortron, pcp&c. since i don't have $200+, fortron it is, when i go for a new psu.

right now, i'm using a powmax. a $60 (i think) powmax i got at a local electronics shop. not a purchase i'd repeat, but it has kept my machine running. i guess i got lucky with this one. i had a cheaper powmax that died after about a week. the replacement has lasted at least a year, i think. still, based on the cheap feel of these powmax units, i won't be buying one again. i probably wouldn't do so even if they turned out to make a great new model that no one else had problems with, just because i've had bad experience with build quality from them.

of course, i own some OCZ memory. works fine up to 250fsb in my brother's P4. got it cause it was cheap (like the powmax psu) it replaced some kingmax memory (also still going strong) the OCZ survived water on my motherboard (i forget whether it was running or not at that point) as did the asus motherboard.

on the other hand, my brother's thermaltake PSU (not the best, but better that powmax) died randomly. the replacement still works.

i think most companies, above a certain point, generally make a good, durable product. however, sometimes bad lots/units are sent out, because only rudimentary testing is done or there is shipping damage. unfortunately, you only hear about the ones with problems. and when you do, there is always someone who says "no stfu d00d this * roxorz my boxorz and blah blah you suck blah blah" (* is product) because theirs worked. then more people with bad units say "no, you stfu! this thing sucks!" and the thread degrades further, without any real resolution as to whether or not the product actually sucks or not. take into account user error, and it is hard to figure out whether or not most products are actually reliable, and whether a bad product is the rule or the exception.

anyway. i would not buy a product from a company with a bad reputation when i was looking for overall quality unless they had proven themselves to be better now. customer support is not something i have had much experience with, so i'm not much of a judge as to whether a company is actually good or not (comparatively - objectively, i'd guess most companies are merely decent) wrt BFG - they submitted products for review to various sites and were well-liked. so they 'fixed' their company. OCZ is doing better now, too. (imo) i'd buy more OCZ memory, but not necessarily an OCZ psu. in the psu field, i think it is safer to assume that the companies (excluding budget manufacturers who stay in business through sheer numbers) that have been in business for a long time and have a good reputation will try to uphold said reputation rather than cut back, so they are the safer companies to buy from.

i'm not saying that new companies will have bad products, but that older, more reputable companies will have a larger support base and will be more apt to handle problems well.

summary for those who didn't want to read: i'd prefer a product from an established company to that of a new company, but the new companies can have good stuff too.