The Division Appears To Be Broken

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Although game-networking consultant Glenn Fiedler hasn't actually played The Division, his credits on games such as Titanfall and the God of War series, gives me reason to believe he knows what he's talking about when it comes to stuff like this. This is really disappointing because The Division is in my game queue but I still haven't had a chance to play it. Now I'm not sure if I want to. :(

I sincerely hope this is not the case, because if it is true, my opinion of can this be fixed is basically no. Not on PC. Not without a complete rewrite. Possibly on consoles provided they fix all lag switch timing exploits and disable players moving and shooting while lag switch usage is detected (trusted client on console exclusive games is actually more common than you would think…), but not on PC unless they completely rewrite most of their netcode and game code around a server-authoritative network model.
 
What in the world?!

First gameworks, now... possible basic networking code fail? I would not want to see WTF the rest of the game code must looks like!

If this is indeed the case, ubi$oft may have just eclipsed EA in fail with this one.
 
The single player part the game is pretty fun, Steve. The dark zone part of the game gets pretty hardcore when it comes to being hunted down by rogues.
 
The Dark Zone is geared to the rouges. The game is good but if we had the same amount of good drops outside the DZ, it would be good. To much of the game is focused on the DZ for good drops. JMHO
 
Netcode 101: Trust the client as little as possible.

This is as bad as Bethesda tying their engine speed to the frame rate. These are lessons learned back in the 90's.
 
I have not played the game, but I've become less and less of a fan of FPS games as they have added RPG elements (like levels) and gone more toward peer to peer and client trusted networking models.

In my opinion, this is part of the mentality of building things to be sold, not building things to be used. There is no excuse to release a major PC game with this problem in 2016. Shame on them.
 
It's ubisoft. Are any of you really surprised? I've given up on mp games for the most part. I don't have time for that.
 
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I don't play end game, and am nowhere near as HC as I was leading a guild in EQ2, so for me it's a heck of a lot of fun. If I was playing 4+ hours a day and grinding for gear, I could see how upset someone could become. But as a casual, just playing in the DZ a little bit for better drops and crafting materials, I really like it.
 
I don't get it, why people are crying foul right now, instead of ditching this game when it was in open beta?
It was clear as day that the game is broken and open to any kind of cheating and hacking and there was nothing Ubisoft could do to fix the issue, besides scraping the game and re-building it from scratch.
 
Mugato said:
I don't play end game, and am nowhere near as HC as I was leading a guild in EQ2, so for me it's a heck of a lot of fun. If I was playing 4+ hours a day and grinding for gear, I could see how upset someone could become. But as a casual, just playing in the DZ a little bit for better drops and crafting materials, I really like it.
Click to expand...

I really enjoy it as well. Just casually doing hard and challenging missions. DZ for me just sucks and isn't fun at all. Not sure if that is its design or just the people I encounter but it just isn't fun to play in there.
 
King Icewind said:
It was fun up until end game.
Click to expand...

Yeah, no shit. I was hooked until I hit level 30.

I was playing about an hour or two every day and enjoying the progress. The pace was good, the loot was well balanced. But once you get into the 30 you hit a brick wall as far as progress. The exploiters/glitchers got so far ahead that in non-PVE (IE: DarkZone) play, you don't stand a chance. Instead of rolling back those who glitched ahead, they made changes that hurt the ones who didn't.

Now:
- You grind endlessly to get crap so you can be placed in a high-end bracket and gang raped by those who exploited early.

- Hackers/Cheaters run rampant and are griefing in the DZ because they're bored. Ubisoft won't ban them because (according to some Ubi quotes) they're enforcing a "world wide" aggregate legal policy that only enforces the EULA to the weakest country.

- HE junk drops but produces less materials to try and craft stuff that has such high RNG tied in you'd need to reroll it 1000+ times (someone did the math) to get a perfect roll.


TLDR;
The state of this game can be summed up by the fact that if you visit a cheaters forum (for the cheatengine), you find cheaters complaining that there's too many cheaters, so they keep dying. I mean, for fucks sake.
 
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connerd2002 said:
The Dark Zone is geared to the rouges. The game is good but if we had the same amount of good drops outside the DZ, it would be good. To much of the game is focused on the DZ for good drops. JMHO
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High risk, high reward. That's the point.
 
DPI said:
High risk, high reward. That's the point.
Click to expand...

Except there is no risk for the cheaters

Hell a week ago I was reading about cheaters who were mega upset that everyone was cheating and they couldn't kill anybody easily anymore because everyone else now has the same edge they do via cheating

When your game has gotten to that point, you know the DarkZone was a bad idea

All they have to do to fix this easily is make a PVE and a PVP area of the Darkzone, the griefers/cheaters will leave instantly after that

But as it is, everyone feels like they need to cheat because progression in the DZ is now impossible without hacks

Hell, them implementing that the DZ would be split up by gear scores caused such a flood of butthurt from the griefers/trolls it approached legendary status, ppl with 200KDPS+ upset they couldn't run around and kill 30KDPS+ players anymore and were being forced to fight other 200KDPS+ players

And their response?

"Its not fun fighting ppl on an even level"

The funny thing is Darkzone on launch was nothing like this, being a griefer actually got you in insane crap and the risks were astronomical to pull it off

So then they took nearly all the penalty away and the DZ became a griefers paradise

The game is incredibly fun, but stay away from the DZ if you can
 
Well, Steve, you would have enjoyed the game more the first couple of weeks better than now. Though it still has some pretty graphics and the initial leveling solo play is pretty nice. If they ever do resolve the hacker issue, I think the game has a shot of being a lot more fun. But has it stands, the super geared rogue packs farming folks at the door makes a fun zone next to no fun, the hackers shooting through walls pretty much kills what is left of the fun.
 
the PVE aspect of the game is worth a play through, but I wouldn't pay more than $19.99 for this game in the current state. Originally the dark zone was pretty mellow, rogues were rare as the risk/reward balance was skewed quite heavily to the risk side, dying cost you A LOT. Once that changed with patch 1.02 it all went downhill ,and their design, basically backstab and kill your friend and enemies a like, be an asshole, attracted exactly that kind of player. Player counts were down to 20% of the first 2 weeks last I checked on Steam. It is obvious though that the servers and coding are not built for solid PVP play, the lag and other issues will not be resolvable. They are brining down ban hammers a lot more now, and even watching streams of players and banning cheaters spotted that way. The problem is though cheating is only part of the problem, the poor RNG design and PVP design won't be fixed by just eliminating or greatly reducing the number of cheaters.
 
I was intrigued by this but when I saw the description of the end game darkzone stuff it put me off because I was envisioning something like this happening. Lucikly enough I guess I went with my gut and the fact that I still have plenty of games I haven't gotten around to finishing on Steam and decided to skip it. Perhaps if they can manage to fix it or I see it cheap enough I might give it a try for just the PvE, but wow, bad call on the implementation Ubi.
 
This game is beyond fucked. Glitches/exploits, lack of response from the devs on properly handling said glitches/exploits and those that use said exploits (only a three day slap on the wrist...really?), lack of content other than bitch work, issues with the Dark Zone, nerfing drops in the Dark Zone, lack of balance...

I gave up on this game.
 
ya next time he should play the game first before making a lot of right assumptions but one really glaring one... the characters are not store locally... their is no local inventory to mess with. I would guess they issue is local connection to the server not local control... but that is maybe more of an issue. or the video is simply another shot in the dark between ea and ubisoft on number of users playing... I liked titanfall and my guess is after they had to deal with so many issues of wall hacks the guy just got burned out and assumed that the pc crowd would cheat more than the console crowd... they fixed most of the bugs a couple weeks after launch and god of war was console only... maybe this is a really stupid question but did anyone actually verify if the bug happened or are we all just pissed about the stuff we thought we were getting with the game that never showed up? personally some one should take this guy aside and explain how the network stack works, how big a packet is and what the scientific method is. or don't waste your time, it seems most people would rather have five minutes of fame then help fix the problems just point and say it is not fixable I have not played in weeks do I think it is not fixable to be honest there are many bugs and exploits but I'm kinda thinking someone should try and get answers out of someone with actual experice no matter how shiny console code that your not allowed to touch most of the time on the console networks... the pc stuff that stuff is hard and if he worked on it how could he make sure a idiotic statement about local control on a game with no local content... the animations and a blendshape list is all that is on my machine... the inventory and character models were all on the server...
 
I'm about bored with the game now. I haven't run into cheaters too often, wonder if it's just the timezone I'm in. That or Europeans simply don't cheat as much. Lvl 30, gear score of 148. Running around the same 4-5 locations to kill the same mobs over and over again, hoping I get a good gear drop. Ya, starting to get real boring. I would love to move to other areas of the DZ, but I'm only greeted with higher lvl mobs that 1 shot me. So stuck in like 3 city blocks doing the same crap over and over again.

All I've been doing is the 2 hard daily quests and the challenging daily quest tends to be a toss up. Sometimes a good team, sometimes a bad team. So don't always complete it. Then I go into the DZ for an hour and just farm crap weapons to break down into mats. That or just run around killing mobs to raise my DZ level. Not even worry about drops.

That's pretty much end game for me. I really hope they make some new PVE zones DLC or something. I was stupid and bought the season pass like the first couple days of owning the game.
 
The Division's been out a little less than 2 months and it's already riddled with massive hacks and exploits. The future of this game is not looking good at all. If what that article is saying is 100% true then I don't really see this game going anywhere. The season pass owners should probably start looking into getting refunds.
 
The division is not a multi 100 hour game for a majority of people. The problem is that when you hit end game...you are like "what is next" and the answer is..."a new game".
 
So all of the press has made them react with this statement. That and the fact SteamCharts shows their player base has shrunk 55% since March.

IMPROVING THE PLAYER EXPERIENCE – TOPIC: CHEATING & EXPLOITS

29/04/2016 10:31 AM

From the very beginning of development, our emphasis has always been on the player experience and how good we want it to be. We have great plans for the future of The Division, and for these to succeed we must make sure to provide a smooth high-quality experience. Unfortunately, the gameplay experience was recently impaired by in-game bugs and players violating the rules of the game. In order to bring back a better and healthier environment, we have taken new steps to address the situation.

CHEAT ENGINES

Cheating players have been an issue for a number of you in the Dark Zone, and we’ve heard this feedback loud and clear. We are strengthening our efforts to address this problem, as described below.

First, we have implemented new cheat detection methods that have allowed us to identify many more players currently using cheat engines in the game. We have already caught more cheaters in the last few days than we had in total during the previous weeks. As a result, we will be handing out the biggest wave of suspensions and bans to date over the course of the next few days.

Second, when cheaters are caught, we will now apply a suspension of 14 days on first offense (instead of the previous 3 day initial suspension). Second offense will always be a permanent ban.

We anticipate these two changes will noticeably improve your experience. New upgrades on cheat detection are underway.

BUG EXPLOITS

What is a bug exploit?

An exploit is the active triggering and use of a bug or glitch to bypass established game rules in order to gain a significant advantage or skip progression steps otherwise necessary.

Identifying and fixing bugs before releasing new content is one of the most important parts of game development. This is also the best way to guarantee a smooth and enjoyable experience for our players. Learning from the past and your great feedback, we are currently reviewing our development and testing process to further minimize the amount and impact of these bugs going forward.

Unfortunately, we cannot simulate the experience that millions of different players will have, and how they will play the game. As a result, some bugs may make it through testing, and may be present when an update is deployed. In the event that a bug makes it into the game, and this bug can be used by players to gain an advantage, we need to be able to react and fix it, but also dissuade players from exploiting this bug until it is fixed. This is why moving forward we will adopt a stronger stance against players abusing exploits.

Our first step is to give you clearer and more concrete visibility. Should new bugs be discovered, we will quickly confirm if these are considered exploits. All known exploits will be clearly listed in a public forum thread and across our various communication platforms. We want all players to be informed. This will ensure that those caught after an exploit was confirmed are aware of the consequences and actions that can be taken against them.

Second, sanctions will be implemented for players who repeatedly abuse exploits and will vary depending on the severity of the abuse, as well as the history of the player. Possible sanctions include character rollbacks, account suspensions and permanent bans. Those who encounter bugs during the normal course of play have absolutely nothing to worry about.

As mentioned earlier, providing a high-quality experience is our priority. Fixing game bugs is one aspect of it, and we are improving our processes to address that. Dissuading players from impairing others’ gameplay by violating the rules of the game is another aspect. We also want to give you better visibility and transparency. We are fully committed to providing an enjoyable and fair environment for all our players, and will take all steps necessary to achieve this goal.

See you in game!

The Division Team
Click to expand...
 
I've enjoyed the Division far more than I did Destiny (both played on PS4). The endgame of Division is fucked up right now, but is a far more complete title. Beautiful world, solid gunplay (that needs tweaking), solid itemization (that just needs MORE items), and a good set of mechanics that could make for deep gameplay/scenarios. I believe the game has potential to be great longterm, but I'm taking a break for a few weeks until that happens.
 
Spidey329 said:
So all of the press has made them react with this statement. That and the fact SteamCharts shows their player base has shrunk 55% since March.
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I am glad they are taking a harder stance on banning cheaters. Also most games do lose a massive player base the following month from launch.

That and with the launch of Soda Drinker Pro, I am sure that caused many players to migrate away from division.
 
They claimed they were "taking a harder stance" on cheaters in RB6: Siege, too...and there's more cheaters than ever at this point. Ubi doesn't give a fuck.
 
The worst part about the presence of hackers is that suddenly everyone screams hacker even when they simply get outplayed by someone not hacking but just better than them.
 
DPI said:
The worst part about the presence of hackers is that suddenly everyone screams hacker even when they simply get outplayed by someone not hacking but just better than them.
Click to expand...

I tell my buddy this often "no he wasn't cheating, he was just better than you because we are old and don't have those reflexes anymore"
 
What makes it all the more frustrating is that you may never know for sure if it's hacking or just skill. There are many hackers are not as blatant as the ones you hear about / see in videos, and they make up the much larger portion of hackers overall.
 
Trepidati0n said:
The division is not a multi 100 hour game for a majority of people. The problem is that when you hit end game...you are like "what is next" and the answer is..."a new game".
Click to expand...

That's exactly why I didn't buy it after the beta. It seemed like there was no thought given to end-game content. The entire end game appeared to be fighting NPC's in the Dark Zone, return loot, rinse and repeat.
 
Spidey329 said:
CHEAT ENGINES

Cheating players have been an issue for a number of you in the Dark Zone, and we’ve heard this feedback loud and clear. We are strengthening our efforts to address this problem, as described below.

First, we have implemented new cheat detection methods that have allowed us to identify many more players currently using cheat engines in the game. We have already caught more cheaters in the last few days than we had in total during the previous weeks. As a result, we will be handing out the biggest wave of suspensions and bans to date over the course of the next few days.

Second, when cheaters are caught, we will now apply a suspension of 14 days on first offense (instead of the previous 3 day initial suspension). Second offense will always be a permanent ban.

We anticipate these two changes will noticeably improve your experience. New upgrades on cheat detection are underway.
Click to expand...

A suspension for cheating? Uncompromising, unapologetic permaban on first offense IMO.
 
NExUS1g said:
A suspension for cheating? Uncompromising, unapologetic permaban on first offense IMO.
Click to expand...

Except "cheating" is a spectrum, and to avoid false positives it has to be vetted first to see if something is actually cheating or just a bug.

In other words, some asshat using a D3D injector/aimbot isn't the same as people abusing a bug/glitch/exploit until the developer plugs the hole.
 
BHenry said:
The single player part the game is pretty fun, Steve. The dark zone part of the game gets pretty hardcore when it comes to being hunted down by rogues.
Click to expand...
But does it have a single player portion? If it's online PVE, then it's not single player. Single player is when I play offline completely disconnected from any interaction with other human players. So does it have that?
 
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