TF2 ruined?

Just for reference, Valve has released another update, thus bringing an end to infinite uber.
 
This game was the most well balanced game I've ever seen (and I've been playing FPS's on pc since System shock).

The medic updates, and the gun updates, eh, whatever floats your boat. I've been annoyed by the medigun that heals as it hits once or twice, but rarely have I been killed or seriously had to alter my strat because of one. The updates don't really effect me, I'll get em anyways (with or without trying, some are just retarded and sooner or later I'll get sucked in by my friends).

The concern for me is for new players. TF2 was one of the most plug-n-play jump-in-friendly games I've ever seen containing extremely well balanced classes (although I'd argue the scout needs a small re-org). Anyone playing this game could have a blast for 30 minutes. Even if they've never played it before.

With these updates, you increase the gap between veteran and beginner, and lengthen the learning curve. Good idea? I don't know, I'm addicted and I showed no signs of stopping with or without the updates, so if they had kept the same game I would be playing for the considerable future. Its obvious valve made the move to try and prolong the experience, keeping the audience for longer. My concern is that by the end of these updates a long time player will be so good with stock items and blown out of proportion with the upgraded weapons that newbies will have a tough time adapting. That said, valves to smart for that, and after watching the documentary on the creation of the maps I genuinely believe Valve is one of the best FPS studios out there. They just polish their games to perfection.

edit: and just as a bit of background, I usually play as heavy, solider, sniper, or spy these days. If I've got a favorite spot or the attacking team needs one, I'll play as engi, but that always pisses me off because I watch an ally spy fail knowing I can do better.
 
While I feel they should never have released just one class upgrade, it should all return to normal before long. I have been playing TF2 since beta and if you werent there in the begining you wont fully understand how lacking of balance the game was prior to this. The reason it sucks so much now is the balance was pretty much dead perfect prior to this and now its out of whack again for a month or so while the kinks get worked out.

Medics are no harder to kill than before, however they have new tools that change their game play so you have to tweek your kill method a little but they are still just as murderable :)

I played the first day the update came out and left after a few minutes on my usual server which was full of idiot medics, didnt go back for a few days and it was much better and after a few patches it was playable again. I didnt feel like playing during the free weekend and this week is finals so a little break while things get patched is good. Last time I was in it was closer to what it used to be and not so bad.

Game is not broken, and this is not as bad as what valve did to TFC in the end. These upgrades were planned from the start so they should fit in very well when all is said and done.
 
Dallows said:
I've killed heavies with headshots while they were being healed.
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Yeah I never said it's impossible, but I doubt the person I quoted was fully charged or even hit the head because if you actually do hit the head it's usually a kill. I was questioning his skill of getting headshots and knowledge of the game, not saying that headshots don't kill other players.
 
PureBooYah said:
Yeah I never said it's impossible, but I doubt the person I quoted was fully charged or even hit the head because if you actually do hit the head it's usually a kill. I was questioning his skill of getting headshots and knowledge of the game, not saying that headshots don't kill other players.
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The accuracy in this game seems a little off. I've had a lot of shots that I believe should've been headshots that totally missed. Either that, or the game is sooo accurate, it makes headshots that much more skillful.

But I've also nailed heavies not being healed multiple times with no avail. Usually sniper rifles are powerful weapons, however in this game sometimes they seem like pea-shooters.

I'm new to the game as well so I'm noobing it up. Still don't understand how I'm supposed to get weapon upgrades and why they're even in the game.
 
MrWizard6600 said:
The concern for me is for new players. TF2 was one of the most plug-n-play jump-in-friendly games I've ever seen containing extremely well balanced classes (although I'd argue the scout needs a small re-org). Anyone playing this game could have a blast for 30 minutes. Even if they've never played it before.
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I had this concern for a while now. But, honestly, I think the new weapons aren't like god-mode for the medic. The advantage they give also creates new vulnerabilities. You have to trade one for the other.

1)If you have the kritzkreig, you are not invulnerable while trying to wipe out the other team.
2)If you have the ubersaw, you have to be damn smart about not getting your medic ass killed by being in close quarters fighting.

I'm saying, either way, noobs are at no greater disadvantage with these new weapons, because these weapons aren't going to have the extreme impact that everyone expects, unless the medic is a total master of using them.

On another note, a week later, the medic madness seems to have tamed down on the servers that I play on. So I'm hoping the pissing & moaning drama starts to die off as well. The game seems to be back to normal for the most part. And the good news is that I've seen some medics who sucked at first quickly become great medics. This is all good.

I think a lot of people get bent out of shape because they expect this game to be as rigid and competitive as Counter Strike, and that any change throws their life out of orbit. It's not. It was never meant to be. It's meant to be a fun crazy mess of mayhem that lasts for as long as you are having fun playing around. IMO, this isn't a game to play stone faced serious. Play it with tongue in cheek and enjoy it.

Just for the record, this is easily my favorite game of all time. I get at least 20hrs per week in. Sometimes as much as 35hrs per week. But then, I did find the game reached it's true potential when I found good servers, with players that aren't dicks or retards. My favorite being www.theammocan.com servers (TAC4 & TAC5) when they are populated in the evenings.
 
The sniper rifle takes time to charge up to full power, indicated by the meter on screen when zoomed in.
 
First off, you can't find a better company then valve for keeping the game balanced and bug free. You know once an exploit gets released, it'll only be a few days before it's fixed. I can only imagine what happened when valve heard about the infinite ubercharge. The fact that they can get an update released that fast is impressive and shows how great of a system steam has become.

My only concern about all the new weapons is the complexity that will become involved in the game. Currently, it's simple, like rock, paper, scissors. You know what class to be in any given situation, and you can understand all the classes after a couple quick matches. It's easy to jump in and out of a game whenever you have a little free time. Can you imagine when all the classes are updated? It'll become much more difficult to determine which class is required to counter another class. For example, take the medic update. Looking at an enemy medic, you have no idea what his weapon load out is, unless you get a good look at the weapon he's carrying, and even then, you don't know his other weapons, or which medic is using what. The problem now is, all medics are no longer the same, and when you see a medic, you will no longer know exactly how to attack or defend against him. Imagine this with every class, it'll just be mass confusion, you will no longer have 8 distinct classes, but 64 different combinations.
 
Dallows said:
The accuracy in this game seems a little off. I've had a lot of shots that I believe should've been headshots that totally missed. Either that, or the game is sooo accurate, it makes headshots that much more skillful.

But I've also nailed heavies not being healed multiple times with no avail. Usually sniper rifles are powerful weapons, however in this game sometimes they seem like pea-shooters.

I'm new to the game as well so I'm noobing it up. Still don't understand how I'm supposed to get weapon upgrades and why they're even in the game.
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A fully charged headshot will kill anyone, no matter what (well, discounting Uber :p). As far as the accuracy... i think that sometimes lag will make clear looking shots miss or shots that look like misses hit. Thats what I chalk it up to at least. I've got a pretty good amount of time in with sniper (36 top score?), I think the accuracy is fine.
 
rgratto2 said:
A fully charged headshot will kill anyone, no matter what (well, discounting Uber :p). As far as the accuracy... i think that sometimes lag will make clear looking shots miss or shots that look like misses hit. Thats what I chalk it up to at least. I've got a pretty good amount of time in with sniper (36 top score?), I think the accuracy is fine.
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I guess you could chalk it up to lag, though I don't seem to lag (ping <50) and I don't see the other people lagging. I am aware of the sniper charge, but not sure what the point of that is. Oh well.
 
What ive found rediculous so far is the Uber Gun upgrade, "Ubercrit" or whatever its called on heavies. It kills most classes except soldiers / heavies in 2-3 bullets. Even at long range its deadly to snipers.

Its most effective on last map of dustbowl, in that tiny hallway. The only thing thats gonna stop that heavy / medic combo is another uber. If your not already inches away from a corner to hide behind, YOUR DEAD. That last phase of dustbowl needs to be revamped, its almost an exact copy of the old TFC version and thats likely its downfall.
 
i saw the endless uber medics too the other day.. pretty lame
 
Inu said:
What ive found rediculous so far is the Uber Gun upgrade, "Ubercrit" or whatever its called on heavies. It kills most classes except soldiers / heavies in 2-3 bullets. Even at long range its deadly to snipers.

Its most effective on last map of dustbowl, in that tiny hallway. The only thing thats gonna stop that heavy / medic combo is another uber. If your not already inches away from a corner to hide behind, YOUR DEAD. That last phase of dustbowl needs to be revamped, its almost an exact copy of the old TFC version and thats likely its downfall.
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Not really, people can pipe jump past the area and spy's and sneak past and stab people in the area, if a team works as a team they can take it. Its not always easy but they can chip away and get it.
 
I've yet to see a krits-krieg used effectively...

I want to see a triple uber, 1 demo with a kritskrieg medic, and then another medic to uber the demo, and another medic to uber the other medic so you have 4 people invincible, and full criticals for 10 seconds... 8 critical stickies will wipe out a team, and 4 grenades... mah gawd. it would be ridiculous.

It would require a lot of teamwork, but if the medics/demo are competent, that's a guaranteed death for the entire opposing team + destruction of all sentrys (because the crits will kill the engys fast, removing any repairs.

It seems some of the medic achievements are bugged though, friend and I did the scout and pyro uber , 3 kills w/ scout, and 5 w/ pyro, got more like 6-7 with the pyro but still neither of them counted... =/

Did the demo one too, except only 4 buildings while ubered, 3 more while unubered =(
 
The exploit is still in full swing. Last night playing Dustbowl, we had a medic blocking the spawn door, and he just cut down anyone that left. It was bad. They are knowingly doing it. Hopefully they will fix it. Maybe next week I guess?
 
Blazestorm said:
Fully charged headshot does not do 450 damage... :rolleyes:
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I'm fairly sure it does actually.

The heavy has 300HP, that 300+50% (300+150 = 450HP) when he's fully healed, and I've killed fully healed HWG with a single shot to the head before with a 100% charged sniper shot.

If you fire straight away the sniper rifle doesn't have time to charge and will do much less damage.
 
Never played sniper enough I guess... I swear I've shot heavys in the head with a fully charged shot and it didn't kill them...

Meh..
 
Did Valve make any changes to the amount of damage the original/regular bonesaw dishes out? I don't know if it just me, but I swear it seems that you can die a lot quicker from less hits from a bonesaw now. I don't know if anyone else has noticed this? It might just be my imagination, I don't know..:confused:
 
Distance from the target does not affect the sniper rifle's damage. Damages are approximate and determined by community testing.

* Bodyshot:
o 100% Zoomed: 101-201
+ Critical Hit: ??
o Unzoomed: ??-??
+ Critical Hit: ??

* Headshot:
o 100% Zoomed: 453 (constant)
+ Critical Hit: 585
o Uncharged Zoomed (immediate zoom/fire): 150 (constant)
+ Critical Hit: ??
o Unzoomed: ??-?? (counts as a bodyshot -- i.e., there is no unzoomed "headshot")
+ Critical Hit: ??
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Enjoy this, not 100% accurate but it is probably the closest without having official numbers from Valve.
 
Official numbers from Valve appeared in the Premia guide for the game ... but they're also kind of outdated.
 
Ah now I remember why I thought fully charged headshots wouldn't kill heavys...

I was playing on a server for a while that had "over-charge" which would essentially give you like 10x the normal health if the medic was healing you long enough... it was ridiculous :D

That's the only time I really played sniper...
 
I am still the only one who thinks having the sniper rifle charge is stupid?
 
I do not play the class enough so I cannot judge it, but I feel it helps limit the sniper in just popping out shooting and then hiding again. This makes him, or forces him to be aware of his surroundings, and so he is not just standing in one spot the entire time like in many other games with snipers.
 
I think you're right on in your analysis, theDreamer. What other way would you have the rifle work and why, Dallows? Your comment is certainly expresses an opinion, but it doesn't share much reasoning.
 
I have a feeling it's also in part to avoid gameplay like the rampant AWP-whoring one sees in Counter-Strike.
 
I hope TF2 doesnt go the route of 'experience', like with CoD4 and B2 types. One of the main reasons I love TF2 is that it doesnt have this. The 'experience' comes from you, the player, figuring out how to use a sniper rifle point blank.
 
I've played sniper a lot recently, and I'm definitely getting better at it. The charge has little affect other than a nusiance. I can easily scope, wait for full charge then sidestep out or stand from a crouch and pick someone off, then recrouch or move out of LoS and repeat. It actually makes me harder to kill in some instances because of that. If I had no charge I would be more likely to stand out and fire, rather than hide and peek.

Even with the charge I can still stand in some spots and just pick people off.

I might be rambling a bit but I'm at work, etc, but in short the charge does little more than just annoy me enough to the point of being unecessary.
 
I like the charge in that it can help you kill someone at medium HP that a regular shot wouldnt, but you can HS and kill without it. I might like a longer charge time on it to even out but really I think its perfect the way it is. Besides a sniper is usually fun fodder for a spy's knife unless they listen for the sound or try to move into him lol.
 
Lol if the Sniper didn't have to charge, it'd be a return to AWP-wars a la CS:S. Sorry, already have a game for that and it's CS:S. If you consider that the Sniper is more like a Scout rifle from CS:S, then you will see why they put it in there. I already liked Scouting from CS:S (especially on no-AWP servers).

Plus - there's nothing like taking Scouts out when they are in mid-jump. There is seriously nothing more satisfying than hearing them curse at you after the re-spawn :D
 
I guess. I never played too much CS, sucked IMO. But I have played other games where the sniper was a one-shot kill and seemed to be fine. Shrug.

I don't know what the awp whore thing was. I know it was a good gun, but the same rules applied, you moved slower scoped, etc. In TF2 you can't jump scoped or anything, sooo. What am I missing?
 
Dallows said:
I can easily scope, wait for full charge then sidestep out or stand from a crouch and pick someone off, then recrouch or move out of LoS and repeat. It actually makes me harder to kill in some instances because of that.
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Sounds like the snipers on the opposing team aren't that good.
 
Mav451 said:
Lol if the Sniper didn't have to charge, it'd be a return to AWP-wars a la CS:S. Sorry, already have a game for that and it's CS:S. If you consider that the Sniper is more like a Scout rifle from CS:S, then you will see why they put it in there. I already liked Scouting from CS:S (especially on no-AWP servers).
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No it wouldn't. TF2 sniper still needs accuracy even at full charge. You actually need headshots to 1hitkill people. Just like the scout in CSS. Whereas if an AWP hits you anywhere you die. Hand, foot, gun you name it. If an AWP bullet flies in your general direction the wind from it is enough to kill you. Theres a reason AWPs (and autos obviously) are banned on most servers nowadays.
 
For the Medic so far I got the upgraded healer and the needle gun both of which have trade-offs. With the upgraded needle gun you can heal yourself while shooting and hitting but you can't do any critical damage with it, with the upgraded healer thing you charge a little faster and when you uber the ubered person does 100% critical damage BUT they're no longer invulnerable so there's no running head on into things.

I think the only thing the achievements have done is made for some minorly annoying people playing medic just for the achievements but other than that I don't think the medic has really gained much advantage from the changes.
 
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