Yea, anyone up for a raid on that lazer cat? I'll be using my lvl 95 backburner
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TF2 Engie Update: ?
- Thread starter Slachtbeest
- Start date
Yea, anyone up for a raid on that lazer cat? I'll be using my lvl 95 backburner
PrincessFrosty
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Still ultra casual I'm afraid.
And grenades dont add spam, most of the TFC grenades were class specific and a lot of them didnt even do damage, concussion grenades messed up vision, as did the spys chemical grenades which make you halucinate rockets and grenades coming at you, the scouts caltrops slower down persuers good for flag capping. You only got 1-2 max anyway.
These are the sorts of changes which stop TF2 from becoming competative on a serious scale, it is basically a wii game, fun for all the family but nothing you can take seriously.
There are some very competitive servers out there. Sure, noob pubs abound, but there are servers out there that attract some very skilled talent. Try http://tf2lobby.com, for some more competitive servers. They usually have class limits - so on a six man team, one demo max.
"Competitive" can be many shades of gray - there are some who claim that CS:Source could never be competitive, and that 1.6 is the only true game. What TF2 is today, is a solid game that is a lot of fun. It may not have a "pro" circuit like other games, but hardly "Wii" casual either.
piscian18
[H]F Junkie
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Demo's still cheap
/thread
/thread
spindoctor
Gawd
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If he's referring to the Gibus, dominating any player who already had it would give it to him too.
Normal grenades did shed loads of damage as did the engys grenades. and you try aiming with fucked up vision! That was the whole point!
They should add grenades and fix the graphics instead of adding achievements for the three sixty kids
For those who took a several year break - here is the deal on the crafting.
TF2 introduced new weapons. Most are a minor tweak. Take the eyelander - longer melee range but you get a health penalty, with movement bonuses based on kills. The 25% health penalty is pretty harsh, but the extra range... depends on if you like that play style. The Scotsman's skullcutter gives you 20% more damage, but slows you down to heavy speed. No one weapon is superior, just more options for how you play.
To get these weapons, you could earn them via achievements, from random drops, or possibly from crafting.
Initially, the achievements were a bit silly - causing 'achievement' servers to come into being. The latest Engineer release is pretty easy to unlock. One or two evenings of normal game play should be enough to unlock all three new weapons. NG achievements, like "pick up 10k in destroyed metal" actually encourage folks to learn how play better. Usually achievements encourage mastery over a little area of skill.
For folks that don't care about bothering with achievements, random drops will give you random stuff. You don't have to be good, or on a hot streak, or anything - just play.
After playing a bit, odds are you will end up with a bunch of duplicate items. Thus the crafting. http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Crafting gives a quick overview of how to put stuff together. Playing pyro and want a homewrecker? Craft an Eyelander and Equalizer.
Hats are purely decorative. When I play medic, it is really nice to be able to quickly identify the demo/soldier who are solid players. The hats help differentiate folks. Hats are also a very quick way to clean out all of those random drops - it takes 54 weapons to make a random hat. Some hats are more rare than others, and some folks have a bit of a meta game going with hat collections.
They did add a vision impairing nade, of sorts - the sniper's jarate. It would not shock me to see them expand that sort of thing as time goes on.
TF2 introduced new weapons. Most are a minor tweak. Take the eyelander - longer melee range but you get a health penalty, with movement bonuses based on kills. The 25% health penalty is pretty harsh, but the extra range... depends on if you like that play style. The Scotsman's skullcutter gives you 20% more damage, but slows you down to heavy speed. No one weapon is superior, just more options for how you play.
To get these weapons, you could earn them via achievements, from random drops, or possibly from crafting.
Initially, the achievements were a bit silly - causing 'achievement' servers to come into being. The latest Engineer release is pretty easy to unlock. One or two evenings of normal game play should be enough to unlock all three new weapons. NG achievements, like "pick up 10k in destroyed metal" actually encourage folks to learn how play better. Usually achievements encourage mastery over a little area of skill.
For folks that don't care about bothering with achievements, random drops will give you random stuff. You don't have to be good, or on a hot streak, or anything - just play.
After playing a bit, odds are you will end up with a bunch of duplicate items. Thus the crafting. http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Crafting gives a quick overview of how to put stuff together. Playing pyro and want a homewrecker? Craft an Eyelander and Equalizer.
Hats are purely decorative. When I play medic, it is really nice to be able to quickly identify the demo/soldier who are solid players. The hats help differentiate folks. Hats are also a very quick way to clean out all of those random drops - it takes 54 weapons to make a random hat. Some hats are more rare than others, and some folks have a bit of a meta game going with hat collections.
They did add a vision impairing nade, of sorts - the sniper's jarate. It would not shock me to see them expand that sort of thing as time goes on.
Leaving out a few key things I believe. Does the Eyelander still give you HP BACK when you take a head? Along with increased speed it's a pretty gay combo. Lets not forget the soldiers pick axe which increases speed drastically when down to little health and at the same time making it a basic 1 hit kill weapon. It's not greatly affective but I've seen some BS soldiers get lucky with 3-4 kills before they die and that's just wrong.
I'll argue this point all day. The added weapons do nothing but make the game more unbalanced. It's like WoW. Each time they try to add something it's throws everything else off and it takes weeks maybe months to get it somewhat "normal" again.
You have noobs spamming shit everywhere and getting kills regardless of skill. Now the engies can do it with the wrangler. It's nonsense.
PrincessFrosty
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You can't have any kind of competition in a game where you randomly score crits which reward you with 3x damage. It's disgusting that you can be putting your all into a fight, you've owned 2-3 people and the objective is in sight and you have to fall back to melee soem guy and you hit him and he hits you back and randomly crits.
he basically rolls a six, you roll a 1, and he wins so he crits and you're dead and he lives, because he rolled a six, totally random. The game is laughable for competative play, and this is why it's so casual and why it will never have the sort of competative following that CS has or the old TFC had.
I love how people say "casual" like it's a bad thing.
Oh, so it is a game that I can play without major time commitments and basically still join a pub and have half an hour of fun? Without having to coordinate it with my friends to keep it competitive?
Oh, noes.
Oh, so it is a game that I can play without major time commitments and basically still join a pub and have half an hour of fun? Without having to coordinate it with my friends to keep it competitive?
Oh, noes.
I can agree. But these are server side options that can be disabled. So you can turn off random crits, etc.
spindoctor
Gawd
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Just goes to show you have no idea WTF you're talking about. TF2 has a huge competitive scene. If you had some original thought, you would have already searched and found that random crits are disabled in league play. Also, the standard weapons and tactics are generally more effective than the gimmick weapons.
LOLz you kidz. TF2 is such a kiddie game. It is so casual that its pathetic. My COD games are so much more l33t than your kid game. I am so l33t and mature that I had to come on an internet forum to bash you kidz who play TF2.
Please notice the sarcasm.
Please notice the sarcasm.
Saturn_V
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I bought this game way back in 2007 and played it for a few hours then stopped until this last weekend. So much has changed since then, item "drops" now, hats, unlockable weapons, scrap metal, crafting. I don't even know how to get half of that stuff or where to begin. I asked a few questions in game and people come back with "fucking noob" comments
The Official TF2 Wiki is your best friend. I've only been reading it since Valve adopted the unofficial wiki a few weeks ago- and it still floors me how useful it is. (and I've been playing since beta)
Crafting blueprints are over on TF2items.com. And the achievements you'll figure out over time. I wouldn't bother with achievement servers. Just accumulate the items over the course of normal play. When you start obsessing about all these misc little items- you lose the plot real quick. Besides, there are only three unlockables or crafted/dropped items in the entire game that I would consider essential for TF2 newbies.
The Medic Kritzkrieg
The Heavy Natasha
The Pyro Axetinguisher
This is why they can choose to turn off crits on servers for competition if so desired. But the reason they added crits in the first place was to give people a chance to bust through defenses. You can disable it, you can even search for servers with it disabled. If you play it without crits and still think it's awesome then you'll know where to play. Personally I find the crits to be acceptable as long as they don't mess with the default percentages (which some servers do).
Sniper Jarate is pretty damn useful. Toss is onto a pile of enemies and suddenly the heavy shooting them starts making headway. Although I realize a lot of people would discourage players in general from sniping. I just wish snipers would use it more often because it is super handy for things other than random spy checks.
A silly question, but have you played much of the game? Perhaps this is a different Dallows than you. (to be fair - my profile)
The Eyelander does give you back some health with each head. A 'normal' demo gets 175 health. With the eyelander, you start with 150 and get 15 health added to your max with each head, up to a maximum of four heads (or 150+4*15) of 210 heath. When you die, the headcount gets reset.
Using it, you really need to be able to get a melee k/d ratio of 2 or better, just to be at the same health ratio as someone with the bottle. The sword does not random crit like the other weapons either. (One can swap out the sticky launcher for the Chargin' Targe to get crit hits, but at the cost of your sticky bombs) For me, I found the better initial health worth more than possibility of more health later. I might use it when there are too many enemy spies about - the extra reach works nicely then. Otherwise, I'd rather have the extra initial health for sticky jumping.
My play style usually avoids melee. Some folks love the melee and the Eyelander/Targe combo will be popular with them. I'd encourage folks to check out the options and see what works for them. The original point - the new weapons are a pretty minor variation. Everything has a con side to it. Additionally, when things are added which are a bit overpowering, they get nurfed pretty quickly. (The sandman for example)
As for the Equalizer, the soldier pick blocks healing. If you are badly hurt, up close, and without medic - the Equalizer will do some major damage (the most of any melee weapon?) or at least give you a chance to flee. If you chose to melee with an aggressive hurt soldier wielding the pick rather than finishing them at range, and they are solid melee players... they often win.
Options. I like them. So far they have done a pretty good job of adding more play options without horking the gameplay. TF2 continues to be fun, fresh, and challenging. My loss, if you are a solid FPS player and spend your time on other games.
Personally I don't think Jarate is that useful. It's main use is to track spies after you bump or see them cloak, etc. But I haven't been having too much trouble with spies lately so I've switched to the SMG. It's a lot better for handling people that get in my face and even some distance fire.
I was considering the same thing today at lunch about the Buff Banner. Currently equipped on my soldier. But I lose my shotgun, a very nice alternative to have for when I run out of rocket ammo and people are in my face. I'm just not sure the added crits are worth it for the limited time I get to use it.
Of course this all depends. On a good team with solid players and medics I could see the Buff Banner being very useful. I held off Blu on the 2nd stage of Goldrush almost by myself because I had a medic and buff banner. But if you're more alone the shotgun is a better pick I think.
It's hard to balance the need in pubs. Its nice that you can switch weapon load-outs before respawn each time, but really I'm just too lazy to do that.
Nice assumption and way to save face I guess. I do not use Dallows as my steam handle. And no you can't know what it is. I've played a lot of the game. Not as much as someone who started at the beginning. But I'd say a fair amount more than is necessary really... For someone with a life maybe, which I don't really have. But anyway.
I didn't need for you to explain how the items work, but thanks. HP back is still HP back, and depending on a lot of variables it's easy to rack up heads. What you failed to mention... again. Is the Targe and it's HUGE resistance to explosive damage. Yes the trade off to the stickies is there. But I used to live through a lot of shit with the Targe. In a certain degree it takes more skill because you only have pipebombs to deal with. On the other hand you just spam them and things die.
I don't even know what my main point was anymore. I don't like the new weapons and a lot of, I'll call "real players," don't either. You might say they're "options" but to me they're just a nuisance. I don't need some jackass hitting me with a sword from 10ft away because of server lag and his awful ping. It's bad enough it happens with everything else.
There's no strategy, no tactfulness about it. They just get close and hold down mouse1, hoping to hit something.
It's a noob weapon for a noob player, all the added items are.
Jarate can be really useful if you don't look at it as just a spy detection device. Sure it CAN be used for that but then most of the time if it cloaks you'll miss anyway, and if it hits most people just ignore them unless he's been a real nuisance. Hardly anyone spy checks anymore, so even if you do splash him most people won't bother shooting him.
However if you arc one in the air as people approach corners or throw one at points enemies typically hide at...you run the chance of doing two things, putting out fires any pyro might have set on your teammates and/or splashing the enemy with it making them easier to kill. You get tons of assists this way as a sniper and it's just being a more useful player when a little extra edge could make the difference. And let's be honest, it only takes a few seconds to decide where to toss it and then go back to sniping/arrowing. It tends to work a little better with the bow because you tend to stand closer, but it can work just as well with the sniper rifle if there's a corner coming up as the team pushes forward.
I'm not arguing it doesn't have other uses. They're just not as... profitable. And you're playing on the wrong servers is no one spy checks. Or the spies are just horrible. More often than not my Jarate would be thrown in vein or would hit one of my own players because they're dumb and run in front of me all the time. There's so many other ways to get "extra" crits that to me it's just not worth it.
spindoctor
Gawd
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This discussion proves that PC gamers will whine about anything and everything., and it is why no one who matters cares about the constant bitching and moaning.
Your input is appreciated.
mastercheeze
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You've been trolling tf2 threads for years. Think maybe it's time to give it up? Or do you enjoy banging your head against the wall in your mind?
PopeKevinI
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Not at all! This update turned the engineer from a turtling class into a mobile and aggressive class. Once the newness wears off and people stop playing with the new gadgets, the game won't be all that different.
PopeKevinI
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Trolling or not, crits are lame. I don't care whether the game is "competitive". I don't entertain fantasies of playing in tournaments or anything. I just think it's silly that you can randomly one-shot a person with a shot to the leg just because the server decided it's time for you to get lucky.
Crits negate skill and effort with luck. Most days half my deaths are to crit rockets.
I agree crits are retarded. But I thought the points following where more like "you can stop bitching about it in every thread, there are ways to avoid them, ie servers with it disabled."
Frostys whole argument is about the game having no competitive sense with crits, hats, etc.
It was clearly stated that it can be very competitive and there are servers out there with just those options.
Saturn_V
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It should be cleared up that only *random crits* are disabled in comp play.
Situational crits (Kritzkreig), mini crits (Jarate, Crit-a-cola) and melee crits (Axtinguisher) are still fair game since they're not random.
Situational crits (Kritzkreig), mini crits (Jarate, Crit-a-cola) and melee crits (Axtinguisher) are still fair game since they're not random.
That's fine, as random crits are the real issue.
Exactly. The rest of us will have a great time playing the game. Its been a week and I think its safe to say that it is a very fun update, IMHO one of the best they've made.
ah this classic, inspires me every time I see the reference.
it's pointless to complain about crits imo, tf2 is not a "serious business" game, you know they exist for fun and accessibility, so just roll with it. everybody has the same crit chance, and it's not just random. they can be controlled, with medics, gear, kill streaks, so it's not completely devoid of skill, use them to your advantage. so what if a random noob gets lucky and slows your roll, just respawn and do it again. it's not like this will prevent you from dominating them, if you really are that good, and not just whining about luck.
this is the reason they have cvars to disable them for procomp, and yet they still use at least some of the crit system. it's already been said, if you really hate them that much there's always nocrit servers to play on.
You've touched on the reason why crits exist I believe. It helps prevent spawn camping, otherwise unbreakable point defense, and all the other things a team of prepared players can inflict on a team that is not prepared for them.
The only case for random crits I would agree that are cheesy is demo stickies having criticals that can be "saved" to be used when they desire. Everyone else is left to wonder when their gun is gonna unleash hell, but the sticky crits give them a bit of sureness others don't have without performing some sort of task before hand (heavy killing with fists, buff banner, crit-a-cola, etc). It allows for demos to just keep laying down stickies until they get a crit one where they want it to be...sure it can be blown away or killed..but 1 sparkly sticky in the right spot is harder to see than the 3-4 it replaces for damage. But this is overall minor thing, it just doesn't fit with the random crits of others.
Doens't matter who I play with, engies will still turtle a wrangler'd lvl 3 and just sit there. Sometimes just in their base, waiting, not being agressive. All this update did for the typical engie was allow for them to build by the base and move to their favorite turtled location. I almost never seen a battle engie except for someone dropping mini-sentries everywhere racking up crit shots.
One thing with the mini-sentry is that it's so disposable, since it's not repairable it'll usually die before it runs out of ammo. So you can throw it down anywhere and never have to go back to do anything to it. Then you can put your dispenser and teleporter in places where they are more hidden or more useful to the rest of the team, instead of in close proximity to your sentry. Those level 3 upgrades take a hell of a long time to hammer into everything, so with a sentry you gotta build it where there's a big ammo crate near by to be ready in any reasonable time frame.
It's a nice change to be mobile, but run up into the heavy combat areas and plunk down an annoying sentry in a corner it's hard to see and let it take pot shots. Or use it for long range shots at people via wrangle. Wrangled L3 sentries are sitting ducks when a spy gets behind it or a pyro comes in from an unexpected location...people will get tired of rebuilding their crap eventually.
Did a bit more with the mini last night. Very easy to 'ninja' folks with it. When pushing for the point, you can move forward, drop a sentry, continue to move, and have enough metal for a second one. Really lets you be aggressive with it.
Also played it with the wrangler. You could drop the SG in a non-viable spot, and use the focus fire to lay down suppression on an area. Sure, they would get sniped or shot up quick enough, but it took the focus off of our heavy/demo/soldier/scouts working the point. Folks ubered out of spawn and in the following chaos, you could make a tactical placement. Never had a mini last more than one ammo resupply.
It is not a substitute for a proper level 3, when you need serious base defense and have a reasonable bit of cover.
Anyone have a bind to quickly change the loadout?
Also played it with the wrangler. You could drop the SG in a non-viable spot, and use the focus fire to lay down suppression on an area. Sure, they would get sniped or shot up quick enough, but it took the focus off of our heavy/demo/soldier/scouts working the point. Folks ubered out of spawn and in the following chaos, you could make a tactical placement. Never had a mini last more than one ammo resupply.
It is not a substitute for a proper level 3, when you need serious base defense and have a reasonable bit of cover.
Anyone have a bind to quickly change the loadout?
I just dislike that when you switch between metal arm and wrench it blows up everything you have built and not just the sentry.... often times I won't build a gun and just build a dispenser and teleporter and help people build their stuff up. Then when match starts I might throw down a mini or two, then if people switch off engineer I'll flip to the wrench and blamo....everything I have is gone when it was serving a purpose not related to the mini gun.