Tesla To Charge For Supercharging On New Cars

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If you buy a Tesla after January 1, 2017, you will now be charged a small fee to use superchargers after your car has exceeded one thousand miles. No word on how much this "fee" will be but the company says it will be less than the price of filling up a comparable gas car. Tesla owners that bought their cars before the January 1. 2017 deadline will still be able to use the Superchargers for free.

For Teslas ordered after January 1, 2017, 400 kWh of free Supercharging credits (roughly 1,000 miles) will be included annually so that all owners can continue to enjoy free Supercharging during travel. Beyond that, there will be a small fee to Supercharge which will be charged incrementally and cost less than the price of filling up a comparable gas car. All cars will continue to come standard with the onboard hardware required for Supercharging.
 
Brilliant Mr Musk, brilliant.

They fell right for your trap.

We will release the details of the program later this year, and while prices may fluctuate over time and vary regionally based on the cost of electricity, our Supercharger Network will never be a profit center.
Click to expand...

Kinda sounds like the Solar City model. Mandatory inflation.
 
Interesting numbers.

According to the article:
400 kWh = about 1000 miles

My cost here in Southern California per kW varies depending on usage at .16, .23 or .29 per kWh.
Since I own a home and the wife & kids are home much of the day, I almost always hit the 3rd tier, which means any addition power usage is billed at $.29/kWh
So, 400kWh @ $.29/kWh would cost me $116.
It also states that that is around 1000 miles.
My Camry hybrid gets around 35 miles/gallon around town, so 1000 miles/35 mpg = 28.57 gallons
The last price I paid for gas is $2.629, so it would have only cost me $75.11 for the gas to drive that many miles, or about 1/3 less.
On the highway I get closer to 45 MPG, so my cost would be even cheaper at $58.42

I thought one of the major selling points of electric cars is that they are much cheaper to run. Doesn't work out that way for me.

FYI: Yes, the electric company has different plans available, but it these plans would cost me even more than above.
(and yes I have checked using their on-line calculators)
These alternate plans are only cheaper if nobody is home during the day and most your power usage is at night.
The only alternative that would work is the plan that installs a separate meter for charging the car, but that would cost so much up front that it would take 10+ years just to break even.

Even at the lowest rate of 16 cents/kWh, the cost is basically the same per mile as my hybrid on the highway @ 45mpg and paying $2.63 for gas.
 
nutzo said:
Interesting numbers.

According to the article:
400 kWh = about 1000 miles

My cost here in Southern California per kW varies depending on usage at .16, .23 or .29 per kWh.
Since I own a home and the wife & kids are home much of the day, I almost always hit the 3rd tier, which means any addition power usage is billed at $.29/kWh
So, 400kWh @ $.29/kWh would cost me $116.
It also states that that is around 1000 miles.
My Camry hybrid gets around 35 miles/gallon around town, so 1000 miles/35 mpg = 28.57 gallons
The last price I paid for gas is $2.629, so it would have only cost me $75.11 for the gas to drive that many miles, or about 1/3 less.
On the highway I get closer to 45 MPG, so my cost would be even cheaper at $58.42

I thought one of the major selling points of electric cars is that they are much cheaper to run. Doesn't work out that way for me.

FYI: Yes, the electric company has different plans available, but it these plans would cost me even more than above.
(and yes I have checked using their on-line calculators)
These alternate plans are only cheaper if nobody is home during the day and most your power usage is at night.
The only alternative that would work is the plan that installs a separate meter for charging the car, but that would cost so much up front that it would take 10+ years just to break even.

Even at the lowest rate of 16 cents/kWh, the cost is basically the same per mile as my hybrid on the highway @ 45mpg and paying $2.63 for gas.
Click to expand...
Yeah but this fee is only for using the superchargers. You can still charge your car normally at home without any additional fees beyond your personal rate for electricity.
 
I live next to a Supercharger (the only one in Las Vegas) and it gets quite a bit of use 24 hours a day with at least 2 or 3 cars there at any given time so this will be interesting when it goes into effect. Of course, the people using it already fall under the "free" category so they'll probably just keep right on using it.

In the long run this was to be expected, and also in the long run I think people that fork out such extravagant sums of money to own Tesla vehicles will come to realize they haven't saved a damned penny. ;)
 
1,000 miles might be ok for most people... most probably charge at home.

With current battery tech all electrics don't make sense, especially in colder climates. Hybrids can at least break even (usually). I saw a lot of Tesla's in CA, but CA is by far the most backward state I've ever been to, so that jived with the rest of it.

Anyways, thanks for all the early adopters pushing tech forward!
 
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No surprise really, people knew it was gonna happen when the market took off, people now know EVs are the future, so the question was just when.

Now there's an exact date which is nice, helps a few people get grandfathered if they wanted to perhaps.
 
nutzo said:
Interesting numbers.
I thought one of the major selling points of electric cars is that they are much cheaper to run. Doesn't work out that way for me.
Click to expand...
Yup, doesn't work out for you. That is a side effect of living in a region where you chew through electricity in order to stay comfortable.
,
It's way worse in San Francisco where 7kWh/day is the amount we're expected to stay under before we start jumping tiers, by tier 3 we're pushing over 40cents /kWh
 
This is like the LTI maneuver for Star Citizen ships. Get a bunch of people to buy in the 4th quarter before the deal ends. They don't do anything but raise prices yet it must seem to anyone who's on the fence that they better buy now to get the best value. This quarter for Tesla will be stellar.

Also its just a good move long term, as it'll keep the supercharger stations freed up for people who actually need it.
 
I don't give a fuck. I paid a lot for my Tesla. Paying more for using a super charger ain't gonna break me.

Even if I wasnt grand fathered it.
 
Rizen said:
Yeah but this fee is only for using the superchargers. You can still charge your car normally at home without any additional fees beyond your personal rate for electricity.
Click to expand...

You missed my point.
The electric rate here in Southern California are so high, it's significantly cheaper per mile to put gas in a hybrid than it is to charge an electric at home.
 
Advil said:
I knew a guy that had an all electric. Supposedly got 200 miles per charge, then he went through an Oregon winter. Gee, they never told him he'd have to charge every 75 miles when it's 30 degrees out.
Click to expand...

All cars get worse mileage when it's cold.
With an ICE, it might be 1 MPG less, with a hybrid, it might be a few MPG, with an Electric, it might cut your mileage in half if you are running the heater.

The mileage on my hybrid will drop about 2-3 MPG if I have the heat running.
Luckily my car is in the garage over night, and living in Southern California, I almost never use the heater.
 
Advil said:
I knew a guy that had an all electric. Supposedly got 200 miles per charge, then he went through an Oregon winter. Gee, they never told him he'd have to charge every 75 miles when it's 30 degrees out.
Click to expand...

interesting. wonder what you get here when it is subzero.
 
I knew that their charging stations were free to use, but I never realized that they also filled up for free. I thought that meant that they didn't have to pay a service access fee like they were planning for the battery swap stations.
 
This will ensure Tesla's will only be for the 1%, at least here in Europe, as no other electric car manufacturer yet asking money for charging their cars... It will come, but it's many years too soon, as there are so few electric cars out there.
 
Wyodiver said:
What ever happened to Hydrogen fuel cells?
Click to expand...

Well, the Toyota Mirai exists. I actually saw one on the road a few days ago, it's absolutely hideous in person. It also costs $58k, or $350/mo to lease with a 12,000 mile limit(that's awfully low over 36 months for the lease). Of course the biggest problem is the fueling(which is free for 3 years)...
https://ssl.toyota.com/mirai/stations.html

SO in 2 regions of CA(and 2 extra in a couple other spots) there are a whopping 21 places to refuel it, and another 10 due in q4 '16 and q1 '17. So unless you live around Los Angeles or San Francisco and only put 12,000 miles on it in 3 years, there is effectively near zero infrastructure available to support them.

But at least they give you free fillups for 3 years for buying into their test program(although even commuting in the bay area in that ugly thing, the 12k miles wouldn't last my very long)
 
Wyodiver said:
What ever happened to Hydrogen fuel cells?
Click to expand...

You being able to buy a generator, capable of outputting 100KW/h, using a free resource...

When they figure out how to make it so you can't just run your house with a couple of litres of water a day, that's when you will start seeing these things turn up in quantity, at a semi-affordable price.
 
Remember, folks: this is just for the supercharger stations. You can still charge at home at your normal electric rates. You really can't expect shit to be free forever, and those supercharger stations don't just appear out of magical fairy dust.
 
Liver said:
I don't give a fuck. I paid a lot for my Tesla. Paying more for using a super charger ain't gonna break me.

Even if I wasnt grand fathered it.
Click to expand...

Must be nice not to have a care in the world of what you spend.
 
nutzo said:
You missed my point.
The electric rate here in Southern California are so high, it's significantly cheaper per mile to put gas in a hybrid than it is to charge an electric at home.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. Ultimately that's up to consumers to research and weigh the pros and cons of. I don't even know what my electric rates are here.
 
nutzo said:
Interesting numbers.

According to the article:
400 kWh = about 1000 miles

My cost here in Southern California per kW varies depending on usage at .16, .23 or .29 per kWh.
Since I own a home and the wife & kids are home much of the day, I almost always hit the 3rd tier, which means any addition power usage is billed at $.29/kWh
So, 400kWh @ $.29/kWh would cost me $116.
It also states that that is around 1000 miles.
My Camry hybrid gets around 35 miles/gallon around town, so 1000 miles/35 mpg = 28.57 gallons
The last price I paid for gas is $2.629, so it would have only cost me $75.11 for the gas to drive that many miles, or about 1/3 less.
On the highway I get closer to 45 MPG, so my cost would be even cheaper at $58.42

I thought one of the major selling points of electric cars is that they are much cheaper to run. Doesn't work out that way for me.

FYI: Yes, the electric company has different plans available, but it these plans would cost me even more than above.
(and yes I have checked using their on-line calculators)
These alternate plans are only cheaper if nobody is home during the day and most your power usage is at night.
The only alternative that would work is the plan that installs a separate meter for charging the car, but that would cost so much up front that it would take 10+ years just to break even.

Even at the lowest rate of 16 cents/kWh, the cost is basically the same per mile as my hybrid on the highway @ 45mpg and paying $2.63 for gas.
Click to expand...

To be fair though, that's an insanely high price to pay for electricity and an insanely low price to pay for gas.

In Ontario, we pay between .08 and .16 kWh and the price of gas is about $1.10 a litre (or ~$5 a gallon), so an electric car would make sense.... if you don't factor in the weather.
 
As I have not been in the loop, what do current users pay for the superchargers use...just standard electrical rates?
 
We will release the details of the program later this year, and while prices may fluctuate over time and vary regionally based on the cost of electricity, our Supercharger Network will never be a profit center.
Click to expand...

If it doesn't make money, it will be unmaintained and eventually abandoned.
 
NeoNemesis said:
To be fair though, that's an insanely high price to pay for electricity and an insanely low price to pay for gas.

In Ontario, we pay between .08 and .16 kWh and the price of gas is about $1.10 a litre (or ~$5 a gallon), so an electric car would make sense.... if you don't factor in the weather.
Click to expand...

Actually our gas prices are some of the highest in the US. Many placed it's less than $2/gallon.
And yes, the electrical prices are crazy high, some of the highest in the country.
Cost of living is very high out here in Southern California and one of the reasons I'm considering moving out of this state when I retire.
Just the equity in my house would let me buy a nice home in many states and still have enough left over to fund half my retirement :eek:
Would miss the nice weather though.
 
Rahh said:
Must be nice not to have a care in the world of what you spend.
Click to expand...

I don't understand how you got there. I bought the car and factored in fuel, insurance and such. Just like any other car.

Edit. It's not like gas is free.
 
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rezerekted said:
The batteries in these cars are a death trap, do not want.
Click to expand...

A crash that is able to puncture batteries located in the middle of the car is not likely to be survivable anyways. The ensuing explosions however are a hazard to first responders and other people in the area.
 
Did the Model 3 originally include super charging/if preordered does it include being grandfathered in?
 
NeoNemesis said:
To be fair though, that's an insanely high price to pay for electricity and an insanely low price to pay for gas.

In Ontario, we pay between .08 and .16 kWh and the price of gas is about $1.10 a litre (or ~$5 a gallon), so an electric car would make sense.... if you don't factor in the weather.
Click to expand...
Isn't that the best way to construct a strawman?

No one here in California would charge our EV at top tier rates during peak times.

He also compared the cost of a hybrid Camry to a Tesla, which is strange because we could do a much more scathing fiscal analysis of that Camry *ignoring* the significant differences between those two vehicles.

I could also construct an equally preposterous comparison between a Prius and an Escalade but it wouldn't give us anything other than garbage data to chew on.

Xrave said:
Did the Model 3 originally include super charging/if preordered does it include being grandfathered in?
Click to expand...
No, there was never any promise that the Model 3s would get free supercharging. As far as I could tell anyone talking about the Model 3s suspected that it would *not* be free, at least not for the $35K price tag. From what I read on various forums, people were (pleasantly) surprised that it was going to include the ability to access the Supercharging infrastructure at all.
 
Are you asking a rhetorical question or are you seriously implying that gasoline fueled cars do not explode after a high speed impact or at least happens less frequently than alternatively fueled vehicles?
 
Reports are nice:
U.S. fire departments responded to an estimated average of 152,300 automobile fires per year in 2006-2010. These fires caused an average of 209 civilian deaths, 764 civilian injuries, and $536 million in direct property damage.

Facts and Figures
  • Automobile fires were involved in 10% of reported U.S. fires, 6% of U.S. fire deaths.
  • On average, 17 automobile fires were reported per hour. These fires killed an average of four people every week.
  • Mechanical or electrical failures or malfunctions were factors in roughly two-thirds of the automobile fires.
  • Collisions and overturns were factors in only 4% of highway vehicle fires, but these incidents accounted for three of every five (60%) automobile fire deaths.
  • Only 2% of automobile fires began in fuel tanks or fuel lines, but these incidents caused 15% of the automobile fire deaths.
 
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