Do you live in CA? Average price is $3.05/gallon. It's been lower and it's been higher over the last 2 years.
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Tesla Model S Hits 300,000 Miles in Two Years, Saving $60,000 on Fuel Costs
- Thread starter Megalith
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serpretetsky
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Yup, I'm more interested in this as well. Electric cars are still not mainstream, so I really don't care about the overall pricing yet (obviously I would care more if I was actually buying one). But if this is the norm in terms of durability then that is very interesting.
And if they live in California, their electricity could be much higher.
I have a tiered structure at 16, 25, and 31 cents/kwh. Since the base tier is so small, every addition KW I'd use would be at 25 cent or even 31 cents.
Using your numbers (.25 / 3.33) = 0.075 $ / mile @ 300,000 mile that would be $22,500, or $27,900 at the higher 31 cents/kwh.
Compare this to hybrid at 40 mpg.
40 MPG and $2.68/gallon (regular unleaded at Costco), the cost is .067 $/mile @300,000 miles the cost would be $20,100.
or at 50 mpg $16,080
Both electricity and gas are expensive in California, but gas in a hybrid tends to be a bit cheaper than charging an electric car, unless you are letting someone else pay for the electricity.
Yup, my 2009 Suburban has spent a grand total of 2 days in the shop in 8 years, it can haul a hell of a lot more than a Tesla (and could easily tow one in case it was desired), and it was a lot cheaper to buy and maintain. I know, I'm a caveman and causing the ocean to rise.
And anyone that argues for the good of the planet and drives 300k miles in a couple years should be shot. Move closer to work or stay at home occasionally unless you are a long haul truck driver, of course then you wouldn't be driving an electric toy car.
My last Toyota was 10 years old and was never in the shop, except for oil and tire changes. Same with my current one that is over 4 year old. The wife's 11 year old minivan (Toyota) was only in the shop once when one of the computers failed under warranty (which is electrical). And this is with my lazy maintenance that is a bit short of the manufactures recommendation
Now if you want to compare it to the Ford Explorer I owned years ago, it would have taken 30 transmissions to get to 300,000 miles
Rebuilt at 28,000, 59,000 and was making noises when I sold it at 91,000. Never towed anything and most the time it was just me in the car. Glad I bought the extended warranty.
If you read the article, they almost exclusively use super chargers, so electricity prices aren't relevant.
My last Toyota was 10 years old and was never in the shop, except for oil and tire changes. Same with my current one that is over 4 year old. The wife's 11 year old minivan (Toyota) was only in the shop once when one of the computers failed under warranty (which is electrical). And this is with my lazy maintenance that is a bit short of the manufactures recommendation
Now if you want to compare it to the Ford Explorer I owned years ago, it would have taken 30 transmissions to get to 300,000 miles
Rebuilt at 28,000, 59,000 and was making noises when I sold it at 91,000. Never towed anything and most the time it was just me in the car. Glad I bought the extended warranty.
don't know how you pulled that off with a toyota, since they have a lot more scheduled maintenance than oil and tires (at least mine did).
Tsumi
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Using super chargers in that manner is cheating the system, and isn't going to be free forever.
One other point here: if you aren't buying gas you are more or less free loading on street repairs. Gas taxes pay for pavement in most states. Obviously we need legislation to address this, otherwise the wealthy Tesla drivers are being subsidized by the rest of us.
Oh, don't worry, they hide the maintenance costs with higher warranty right now for the original cars. That way it looks better for their company when these beta tester owners don't complain about paying thousands to replace motors or batteries.
I expect their warranties to get worse over time.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byclass/Large_Cars2017.shtml
Tons of luxury vehicles get over 18 mpg. Don't even think about comparing the Tesla to the high end luxury market, cause it's not one. It's in the field of your normal BMWs, Audis, Mercs, or even your Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, etc. It's no Maybach, Maserati, Aston, Rolls, etc.
i'm not speculating bro, it's in the freaking article. READ IT!!!! they spent that entirely on repairs and maintenance.
Your gas is 3.25?
holy shit those numbers are horrible.
You just validated the math in my eyes.
Plus is not like big sedans are cheap, model S might be 90k or whatever, but a big ICE sedan climbs very high real fast, and no doesn't have to be a Rolls.
If I had big sedan money, Model S is a a no brainer.
Of course tax payers absorbed a lot of those costs by government subsidies. Free electric charging stations are not going to be around forever. If we want to know the "true" operating costs of electric vehicles than this article is useless.
I wonder how well electric cars would do in Houston right now? How would an all electric transportation system function in an epic flood situation? Thank goodness for internal combustion engines...
I wonder how well electric cars would do in Houston right now? How would an all electric transportation system function in an epic flood situation? Thank goodness for internal combustion engines...
There is currently a gas shortage/crisis in Houston. I wonder how well those good ol internal combustion engines run with no fuel?
300k miles is impressive, that's a lot of battery cycles on a unit that only gets about 200-250 miles/charge.
That being said, I've seen a lot of Hondas, Subarus, and Toyotas get over 300k with no sweat and just routine oil changes and basic maintenance, and getting pretty darn good gas mileage while doing it. They cost a hell of a lot less than a Tesla S, I'd say the savings would be well north of even the $60,000 in savings quoted here.
That being said, I've seen a lot of Hondas, Subarus, and Toyotas get over 300k with no sweat and just routine oil changes and basic maintenance, and getting pretty darn good gas mileage while doing it. They cost a hell of a lot less than a Tesla S, I'd say the savings would be well north of even the $60,000 in savings quoted here.
At least as well as electric cars but without the electrocution hazards...
D
Deleted member 93354
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Most expensive gas in the USA is Pennsylvania (believe it or not) It even beats Hawaii as we have the highest gas tax in the USA. For the last two years, the most it's been is $2.75/gallon
10's of thousands of people in texas are sitting at home right now with full electricity but no gas easily within a 50+mile radius. Can you plug your ICE car into the wall for gas?
Illogical... An ICE has aprox a 400 mile range. If running out of gas is an issue than one simple needs to drive an hour in order to fill up. There are many more people without electricity who would be stuck with a car that cannot be charged. If your electric car has been in a flood it can electrocute you or burn your house down...
https://transportevolved.com/2014/0...-do-if-your-electric-car-has-been-in-a-flood/
Ahh yes, dont have any gas? Just drive and hour and go get some. Quality argument.
And things that use electricity shouldn't be used underwater. Another quality argument. Im learning soo much.
Wierdo
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Doesn't surprise me, motors have allot of major and well known reliability advantages, nice to see them start moving into automobile territory finally.
Lots of major design efficiency advantages, just a matter of driving battery costs down now:
Lots of major design efficiency advantages, just a matter of driving battery costs down now:
I did replace the brake pads at 70,000 and there where a couple minor parts like a relay and the belt that I replaced myself, so it's not like I did no service.
I don't count small service items I can do myself, since technically it's not in the shop.
Oil changes are so cheap, I don't bother doing them myself.
As for the scheduled maintenance, much of it is just checking stuff, something I can easily do.
Not for local driving, you're not going to get anything above 18mpg.
This is a local carpool service, lots of stop and go, and no babying the gas pedal. and lots of passenger weight. And it doesn't sound like they wanted to be a Prius carpool service, considering their price model.
I'm light on the throttle, and my lexus v6 can't even top 19mpg. But I drive all local roads.
Allegedly CA currently averages $3.05 (according to Gasbuddy), so they may have you beat. No idea what Hawaii costs, but I'm surprised it's not more than most, if for no other reason then I assume they have to ship refined gasoline in a tanker.
edit: hawaii is the most expensive followed by CA
http://www.hawaiigasprices.com/prices_nationally.aspx
I had a friend looking for gas for a couple of hours yesterday north of Dallas. They say there's no shortage, but I just read that they're shipping Gas down here from NJ, so I think it's safe to say there's a localized shortage in the south (since most, if not all, of the TX refineries are down). I'm generally in agreement on the range of electric cars, but this weekend, it'd be far less risky to drive a model s 400 miles than my car, cuz Tesla now has 2 or 3 super chargers on the way to my folks place.
[I agree. My lexus ES gets 15-16mpg on surface streets. OTOH, on the highway (without much traffic) I can average 26-28 MPG. And god knows if you buy a Mercedes your maintenance costs will be significantly higher. Those suckers wanna go back to their home (the service bay) as often as possible. My Sister in-law finally gave up on them because her car was always in the shop.
250k miles across 20 years a world of difference compared 300k miles in just a tenth of that time. The numbers presenting in the article really only pertain to the specific company in question and their specific uses. Any vehicle run that hard, that often, and that quickly is going to wear out a hell of a lot faster then something treated a bit better.
I'm all for the added efficiency and reliability, but these graphs are a bit skewed.
Maintenance graph for an ICE starts at YEAR 10. Nothing shown for an EV - but then again, I don't know of many EV's that are 10 years old.... because that graph is not really relevant to anything in this discussion.
Cost to drive 27 miles - ok I can almost buy that one; it makes a lot of assumptions about the local prices of energy that aren't being made clear, but I can believe that for a 27 mile trip that EV would be less than ICE.
The biggest thing all the charts are missing - the capital price of the car itself. A ~Used~ Tesla S runs $40-60k, and I don't believe that used cars qualify for incentives. New are $70+++. Now, more affordable options exist: Leaf starts at about $30k new. Bolt starts at about $40k new - and new cars do qualify for incentives in some areas. Now, you can certainly find ICE cars that cost $70k+++, but the issue isn't the ceiling, it's the floor. You can find a lot of ICE options under the price of a Leaf. They aren't going to be luxury cars, but they will do just fine going 27 mile trips.
A Tesla S is considered a Luxury Sedan - I don't know what insurance rates are like for that, because it gets what, 5.5 stars out of 5 on all safety ratings, but most luxury sedans aren't exactly cheap to insure. The Nissan Leaf and Chevy Bolt probably don't fall under that.
You can look at just price for mile for energy, or price per mile for maintenance, but either of those only tell part of the story. You need to look at total cost of ownership: energy, maintenance, insurance, cost of the vehicle, incentives, everything. EV's are getting closer but I think ICE still wins out there.
Bolt/Leaf/Model 3 are definitely steps in the right direction. Those are in the price range of an average new car purchase.
swatbat
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I'd love an actual breakdown of the numbers including the negatives like the downtime for charging their fleet. They say some of their telsas are doing 17000 miles per month, that's what at least two recharges a day? How much does that downtime cost them(or how they get around the downtime and use it to their advantage).
It would be interested to see what the costs would be without the super charger usage as well(estimated) since those are not going to be free for everyone.
I'd also be very interested to see how much longer the cars last under that use and how much the costs to keep them going does go up. The power train is covered but the rest of the car's warranty is shot in the first few months due to driving. Things like the interior come to mind, as well as things like the door locks and stuff breaking in them. I don't know how easy it is to get parts from telsa that they will end up breaking out of warranty(I'm thinking more in downtime than anything vs parts that are used on a number of different cars).
I wish they would do a detailed blog on their fleet with a lot more information.
It would be interested to see what the costs would be without the super charger usage as well(estimated) since those are not going to be free for everyone.
I'd also be very interested to see how much longer the cars last under that use and how much the costs to keep them going does go up. The power train is covered but the rest of the car's warranty is shot in the first few months due to driving. Things like the interior come to mind, as well as things like the door locks and stuff breaking in them. I don't know how easy it is to get parts from telsa that they will end up breaking out of warranty(I'm thinking more in downtime than anything vs parts that are used on a number of different cars).
I wish they would do a detailed blog on their fleet with a lot more information.
Tawnos
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Did an autonomous electric vehicle run over your dog?
Tesloop is a inter-city service:
http://www.tesloop.com/pricing
With modern engines and 8+ speed transmissions, the typical sedan can easily go 35 mpg or more on pure highway driving.
D
Deleted member 222586
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Is this topic real? People comparing a 100k sedan with a 50k one??????
You compare a 100k ICE to an electric 100k one. Jeez christ, the lack of logic is killing me.
You compare a 100k ICE to an electric 100k one. Jeez christ, the lack of logic is killing me.
Downtime for charging would be no cost if you time with with employee's lunch/breaks.
Which they probably do.
Nothing about interior parts in other brands would be cheap either and would break just as well.
Exactly, that intense usage would chew and spit ICE car's like nothing.. I seriously doubt they would bother to keep any type of ICE cars to 300k mile with that usage, but rather opting to sell them probably before 100K rinse and repeat.
Archaea
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Just because the listed tesla breakdowns were" under warranty" and so free to the consumer doesn't make it problem free.
If one of the big players did this same study on a modern internal combustion engine given perfect maintenance, the car would last 300000 miles easy and I'd wager be ready for more!
The telsa required way more maintenance in the last two year than my Pontiac Grand Prix has in the last 15. (The ONLY problem I've had with my 2002 Grand Prix has been a failed water pump, thermostat, and coolant elbows. Seriously!!! (I'm not counting standard maintenance items like brakes, rotors, suspension, wheel hubs, tires, wipers, light bulbs, etc). My 15 year old car is still ready to drive cross country at a moments notice too! Wake me when that tesla is 15 years old and let's talk again.
If one of the big players did this same study on a modern internal combustion engine given perfect maintenance, the car would last 300000 miles easy and I'd wager be ready for more!
The telsa required way more maintenance in the last two year than my Pontiac Grand Prix has in the last 15. (The ONLY problem I've had with my 2002 Grand Prix has been a failed water pump, thermostat, and coolant elbows. Seriously!!! (I'm not counting standard maintenance items like brakes, rotors, suspension, wheel hubs, tires, wipers, light bulbs, etc). My 15 year old car is still ready to drive cross country at a moments notice too! Wake me when that tesla is 15 years old and let's talk again.
But many of those people in Texas would have to drive through water above the bottom of the vehicle to get anywhere, would a Tesla be safe to drive in deep water?
Granted that is my personal vehicle, along with the 85 Jeep Cherokee I still have going that I drive to work each day. At work we have many F150s that travel all across the state each day and rack up 300k-400k miles in three to four years and we usually get rid of them at the time of first major maintenance such as transmission failure. Most of them last the full miles with only regular tires and oil type maintenance on them. The only ones in the past that would wear out more quickly were the ones dedicated to routes that took them into the active coal mines, the grit from those areas would kill just about anything at 150k miles. All of our sample pickup vehicles travel a mix if highway and gravel roads, so they probably see more severe conditions than the Teslas mentions in the article.
The point was that your ICE cant run all that well in a flood/disaster either if there is no where to get gas. If your house is flooded under 4ft of water it doesn't matter if its an electric or ICE car, you are done. But there are many more people that didn't have their houses flooded/damaged badly and they have full electricity but no where to get gas even if their car is a submarine.
On the flip side though, if you were prepared and had a full tank of gas before the flood, and then got caught in the quickly rising water, which vehicle would have a better chance of getting you out of the flooded area and away to a place that might have gas and electricity available? I have seen regular vehicles drive through water 6-12 inches above the floor boards with no problems, would the Tesla batteries be safe in those conditions?