Tertiary system build advice

E

E4g1e

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 21, 2002
Messages
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I am planning to rebuild my tertiary system. I am typing this from my secondary system which still has a Socket 478 Pentium 4 2.80C processor with an AGP GeForce 6800GT card and 2GB of DDR400 (DDR1-400) memory. But those parts will be replaced with a Core 2 Quad Q9450 with 4GB of DDR2-800 memory and a GeForce 8800GT card on this secondary system, and put a spare Core 2 Duo E6750 motherboard and processor with 2GB of DDR2-800 memory and (so far) a GeForce GT 220 card in my tertiary system.

But now, I am thinking that I should not have gotten a GT 220 card, and should have left my E6750 processor and motherboard "permanently" retired (since I will be using that tertiary system only occasionally, and only for Web surfing) and instead gotten an i3 system with DDR3 memory and an H55 or H57 motherboard.

Dou you people at the [H] think I thought correctly (about going i3 instead)? Or shall I stick with my original plan?

And if you think I should stick with my original platform swap plan, do you still think that I should ditch the GT220 and upgrade my main system's graphics card instead and move my main system's current HD 4850 to the secondary system and keep the 8800 GT on the tertiary system? I don't really want to spend more than $200 for the graphics card upgrade, but my original price limit was only $75.
 
What's the secondary PC used for?
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
I forgot to make this clear. I am using the secondary system for Web surfing and some gaming at the same time as when my primary system is encoding/rendering high-definition videos.
 
Well then, stick with your original plan. Zero reason to go Core i3 for just a web browsing PC if you already have the CPU, mobo, and RAM for a decent C2D based setup.

As to whether or not to upgrade your main system's HD 4850 to something else, thats totally your call. Is the HD 4850 not meeting your demands so badly that you feel that a replacement is needed? If so, then replace it. If not, keep the HD 4850, 8800GT and GT 220 in the Primary, secondary and tertiary PCs respectively.
 
Danny Bui said:
Well then, stick with your original plan. Zero reason to go Core i3 for just a web browsing PC if you already have the CPU, mobo, and RAM for a decent C2D based setup.

As to whether or not to upgrade your main system's HD 4850 to something else, thats totally your call. Is the HD 4850 not meeting your demands so badly that you feel that a replacement is needed? If so, then replace it. If not, keep the HD 4850, 8800GT and GT 220 in the Primary, secondary and tertiary PCs respectively.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the encouragement. It's that I don't want perfectly fine and mostly Windows 7-compatible parts to go to waste. (Although technically the Pentium 4 Northwood is powerful enough to run Windows 7, the component manufacturers are no longer supporting such old motherboards and related hardware. And I cannot circumvent that.)

And once that goes into effect, I will likely swap the 500GB and 320GB hard drives (the 320 is currently sitting in my secondary system while the 500 is currently sitting inside my tertiary system).

Also, while I'm at it, I will be replacing all Wireless G parts with dual-band Wireless N parts to make wireless transfers between PCs faster.
 
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Cool. Good luck with the builds!

Though I say try to install Windows 7 on that old P4 PC anyway. Windows 7 does have quite a bit of drivers even for old PCs.
 
Danny Bui said:
Though I say try to install Windows 7 on that old P4 PC anyway. Windows 7 does have quite a bit of drivers even for old PCs.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I am posting from at the moment. A P4 system running the 32-bit version of Windows 7 Ultimate which currently serves as my "secondary" system. It seems quite sluggish by modern standards; even loading a Web page in IE 8 is slower to get started than the other systems. And it locks up frequently when I tried using any power management feature at all whatsoever on this P4 system to the point where I had to force the operating system to keep the system at full power at all times. The problem is that the power management features on the motherboards and the power management features in Windows Vista or Windows 7 are incompatible (or not fully compatible) with one another.
 
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An update on my builds:

Looks like I'm going to have to hold off on my tertiary build for a little while. I just returned the GT 220 because the card that I got was defective (fan spinning but no video at all).

Now, what to do next? Forget about the tertiary system build altogether and move my Core 2 Quad parts to my secondary system?
 
Why not just buy another card so that you can get both the tertiary and secondary system workin with new parts?
 
Danny Bui said:
Why not just buy another card so that you can get both the tertiary and secondary system workin with new parts?
Click to expand...

Another thing that I was thinking about. However, the store where I originally got the GT 220 charges too much money for low-end parts, and they don't carry much in the way of higher-end cards.

Looks like I might have to do some commuting or Web ordering for this.
 
One final note before I get a new graphics card sometime this week (as early as tomorrow):

The motherboards on which the Core 2 processors reside on are both Intel P35 chipset-based motherboards. I have not yet decided which CPU will go onto which motherboard.

CPUs:
Core 2 Duo E6750
Core 2 Quad Q9450

Motherboards:
Asus P5K (plain)
Intel DP35DP

I have already decided on how much RAM goes with which processor.

The problem with either of the two motherboards is that their vendors do not provide all of the drivers which work with Windows 7 (in fact, the audio drivers and the various other drivers are for older operating systems only), so I end up with missing drivers.
 
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Hmm, there might be default drivers available on Windows update for those devices. Also, Windows Vista drivers will work in Windows 7 so at least in the case of the Asus, you're covered there.
 
Finally, I ended up with a 512MB GeForce GT 240 GDDR5 card to replace the overpriced faulty GT 220. The GT 240 worked unlike the defective GT 220. Now, before you might say "You should have gotten an ATi card at that price" let me tell you that I looked - and I could not find anything beyond an HD 4350 or an HD 5450 at the price range (around $75) that I was concentrating on. (Maybe online, but I needed a card right away, so ordering online was out of consideration.)

I have yet to put it through the paces.
 
Grr... Looks like my final decision has (almost) been made regarding the upgrade...

As it turned out, my old P5K has had compatibility issues with SATA optical drives (at least on the Intel ICH9 non-R SATA ports): The drive took an extremely long time before anything responded, when outside of Windows. My DP35DP board does not have the same issue.

I may try the Jmicron SATA port for the optical drive, and see what happens. If it has the same issue, then I might just keep the C2Q and GT 240 on my tertiary system, and go with an i5-750 plus P55 motherboard and 4GB DDR3 RAM for my secondary system (which will receive my 8800GT).

I did a few benchmark tests between both motherboard (with the same processor, hard drive and memory). The P5K is clocked slightly higher than the DP35DP, and has better memory throughput scores - but the DP35DP delivered slightly better graphics scores.
 
More bad news:

The jMicron SATA port does not support optical drives at all. My last resort might be an older IDE optical drive before I give up on this motherboard and start looking for a replacement.
 
One final update on the P5K:

The Jmicron PATA port does properly support optical drives!

This means that if I were to rebuild a system around my particular P5K motherboard, I would have to use a PATA optical drive and not a SATA optical drive. This also rules out Blu-Ray playback since all internal Blu-Ray drives are SATA.
 
At this point I feel like I'm about to give up on this particular build (at least with this particular motherboard) due to all of the issues with compatibility and reliability (my PATA drive won't even open its drawer any more on its own power with this mobo). I might have to replace just the motherboard, or move the C2Q/DP35DP/4GB DDR2 setup to my tertiary system and go with something that's in between that setup and my main setup for the secondary PC.
 
Update:

Now that I'm pretty much decided, I am thinking about a replacement PSU and case for my secondary system (the case that I was planning to use with it is an Antec SX1035B with four 80mm fans plus an Antec Truepower 2.0 430W which might have been decent in its time but is barely adequate nowadays for fairly low-end modern systems due to its 372W capacity on the +12V rail).
 
Which PSU were you planningon buying?
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
Danny Bui said:
Which PSU were you planningon buying?
Click to expand...

Probably a good-quality PSU in the 600-ish watt range. I am planning to power the tertiary system (with the lesser components) with an existing Corsair HX520 PSU.

Or shall I move the TPII-430 to the lesser system and move the HX520 to the secondary system?
 
E4g1e said:
Probably a good-quality PSU in the 600-ish watt range. I am planning to power the tertiary system (with the lesser components) with an existing Corsair HX520 PSU.

Or shall I move the TPII-430 to the lesser system and move the HX520 to the secondary system?
Click to expand...

Personally I wouldn't use the TPII-430 at all due to its age and the reports of higher than normal death rates for that line of PSUs.
 
Danny Bui said:
Personally I wouldn't use the TPII-430 at all due to its age and the reports of higher than normal death rates for that line of PSUs.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Danny. I now need a new PSU right away - but the only places that are nearby me sell mostly crappy PSUs (and those "good" PSUs that they carry cost more than most other resellers). And the nearest MicroCenter and Fry's stores are more than an hour's commute from where I live. (I don't want to order online because such resellers either require a credit card or take several weeks to ship the items.)
 
If you have time for the commute, I'd recommend it. Both Micro Center and Fry's have pretty good deals on the name-brand PSUs (e.g., Corsair, Antec, Silverstone, Seasonic) that we normally recommend. Antec's newer Earthwatts and TruePower New PSUs are good yet relatively inexpensive (if purchased from MC and/or Fry's).
 
Thanks to all the replies.

I ended up getting an Antec EarthWatts 650 to replace the TPII-430 that's currently in my secondary system. And instead of swapping P35 motherboards, I ended up getting a GigaByte EP43-DS3L motherboard for the Core 2 Quad components (Q9450, GeForce 8800GT, 2x2GB DDR2-800 and EarthWatts 650) soon to be in my secondary system (replacing the troublesome Asus motherboard which had compatibility issues with SATA DVD drives), and using my Intel DP35DP motherboard in my tertiary sytem with the Core 2 Duo E6750, GeForce GT 240, 2x1GB DDR2-800 and Corsair HX 520.

Once again, thanks for all the replies. You people are correct about an upgrade to an entire new i3 platform being a bit overkill for what my secondary and tertiary systems are going to be used for.

UPDATE: I'm currently testing the new P43 motherboard in my soon-to-be tertiary system albeit with the quad-core CPU and 4GB of RAM.
 
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I have decided not to post pics at this time because the cases are still of the very same dowdy kind.
 
UPDATE:

My secondary and tertiary builds are now fully assembled - and almost complete. I have the operating system installed on my secondary system (Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit) along with most of the drivers and some software. I also have an operating system temporarily installed in my tertiary system because I will be doing testing on that system.

Hence, my finalized secondary build is as follows:

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450
Gigabyte GA-EP43-UD3L (BIOS version F8)*
4GB Corsair TWIN2X4096-6400C5DHX
Antec EarthWatts EA650 PSU*
BFG GeForce 8800GT OC PCIe 2.0 Graphics Card
320GB WD3200KS SATA HDD
Lite-On iHAS324 SATA DVD Writer*
Antec SX1035 Case
I also added a Belkin 4-port USB hub to my secondary system to compensate for the case's lack of front-mounted USB ports. I originally thought of purchasing a USB extension cable, but the one my local store carried costs as much money as a powered 4-port USB hub; thus, I felt that the powered hub is the better buy at that price. I also thought of purchasing a 400W PSU from either Corsair or PC Power & Cooling but their 400W units cost nearly as much money as the discounted sale price of the 650W EarthWatts (the EarthWatts was on sale). The 400W units handle only 360W on the +12V rail versus 540W for the EA650.

* indicates new replacement components (upgrade from an older Pentium 4 system with AGP graphics). All other components are pulls from my earlier systems.

As for my tertiary system, it is as follows:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6750
Intel DP35DP Motherboard (BIOS Version 0517)
2GB Corsair TWIN2X2048-6400C5DHX
Corsair HX520 PSU
eVGA GeForce GT 240 PCIe Graphics Card*
Seagate ST3500630 (500GB 7200.10) SATA HDD
LG GSA-H62L DVD Writer
Antec Super LANBoy Case (for now)
The tertiary system will be running a 32-bit version of Windows 7 due to its mere 2GB of RAM (although I ran a 2GB system with 64-bit Win7 for an experiment).

Again, the asterisk (*) indicates newly purchased part. All other parts are pulls from earlier systems.

Both systems are currently using onboard audio. My secondary system had a Creative Sound Blaster Audigy Gamer at one point.
 
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heh, those machines are better than some people's primary machines, lol.
 
I will be switching the hard drives very soon. This is because the 320GB WD3200KS hard drive (at least my particular copy) is of an early SATA II design with only 160GB platters. As such, it is nearly as slow in performance as a WD Green (which spins at only 5405 rpm).

Although the Seagate 7200.10 500GB hard drive is a little better - but not by much.
 
After I got my secondary and tertiary systems up and running, I have decided to upgrade the monitor on my main system. Right now it is only a 19" widescreen LCD with only 1440x900 resolution. But with that system now being used for HD video editing and encoding, I would like a larger monitor with at least 1920x1080 resolution (the older 16:10 displays are giving way to 16:9 models). And a few manufacturers now offer LCD monitors with LED backlights (some are edge-lit rather than backlit).
 
Another update:

My tertiary system is once again non-functional. This is because I had to give away its 2GB of DDR2 memory to my brother who needed more RAM. And given that DDR2 memory has gotten pricier while DDR3 prices have either remained flat or dropped slightly, I will definitely save up for the i5 or i7 (or maybe AMD) to replace the 775 platform I currently have as secondary, and move the Q9450 platform with its 4GB of DDR2 memory to my tertiary.
 
Why not just split up the RAM of the secondary rig and give that to the tertiary PC?
 
Danny Bui said:
Why not just split up the RAM of the secondary rig and give that to the tertiary PC?
Click to expand...

This is because the 4GB came via only two modules. And my secondary system needed all 4GB just to run 64-bit Windows at its best. If I downgraded that system to 2GB single-channel, I would have had to downgrade that system's Windows to 32-bit XP - and then, I would practically lose my network because Windows XP and Windows 7/Vista computers do not use the same network sharing protocol. And even 32-bit Windows 7 needs 3GB of RAM to run at its best.

I did a little bit of searching around the house, and I found a 2GB dual-channel DDR2-800 kit laying around the house. I forgot that I had that kit. I will be installing that in my tertiary system. But since I wiped out that system's hard drive, I will more than likely install Windows XP 32-bit with Service Pack 3 on that system.
 
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I have just recently upgraded the hard drive in the secondary system from an old 320GB WD Caviar SE16 to a newer 500GB WD Blue.

However, I ran into a problem with the two builds:

On both builds, the cases are either old (my secondary system is still housed in an old Antec SX1035B with four 80mm fans) or falling apart (the Antec Super Lanboy in my tertiary system could no longer be securely closed with screws). Therefore, I will need to purchase two new cases for the systems. And since I use the secondary system more frequently than the tertiary system, the secondary system's case will get upgraded first. And if I don't get a new case for the tertiary system, I will be using the Antec case that's currently housing the secondary system for my tertiary system. The latter will save me the expense of buying yet another case.

On the plus side, I am going to retire the GT 240 except for troubleshooting purposes. Both the secondary and tertiary systems will get "upgraded" GPUs (the 8800 GT that's currently in my secondary system will be going into the tertiary system, and the HD 4850 that used to be in my main rig but is now idle will be going into the secondary system).

The RAM amounts of both the secondary and tertiary systems will remain the same (4GB in the secondary, 2GB in the tertiary - both running in dual-channel).

When I finally get them together I will post pics.
 
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A cheap CoolerMaster Elite (more than likely). However, if the CoolerMaster that I pick turns out to be one of the better ones that Danny and others recommend for their prices, then the Antec Nine Hundred that's currently housing my main system will go to my secondary rig, and the roomier CoolerMaster case will go to my main system.
 
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