Temporary Budget System Please

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pc1x1

[H]ard|Gawd
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Jan 1, 2008
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Hi guys,

While I am wrapping up Sestren, I need a PC for school/projects. So this has to be as cheap as possible, I will give away this PC to a family member, or it will become a server later on. Because this is single task, I can deal with 64gb total, so I could use a SSD. I would like a video card setup that will match the my cpu. SSD is the only part that I could really change to keep it cheap, well see how this build evolves :).

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Photoshop, 3DS Max, Maya, Web Design, Gaming only if budget allows, aka CHEAP! ;)

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
Lowest possible, with Quality, I hope $200, but know 400 is more realistic.

3) Where do you live?
Florida

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. Please be very specific.
I need:
PSU
2x Video Cards or one with 4 dvis, Crossifre only
SSD
CPU Heatsink
80mm fan

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
Q9550,
Coolermaster Centurion,
P5WDH Deluxe
4GB XMS2 Pro DDR2
DVD Burner

6) Will you be overclocking?
I will overclock just to match the 9550 stock clocks so 2.8-3.2 ghz, 975x chipset limitation.

7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?
30 and 2 19's. Eventually it will move to a 24, when Sestren is complete.

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
Right now.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? etc.
Crossfire, thats it, everything else is standard.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license?
Windows 7 Ultimate

Anyhow just want to make it decent, thinking a cheap Antec PSU, a cheapy OCZ SSD,
 
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$110 - 2 x HIS H465FS512P Radeon HD 4650 512MB PCI-E Card
$70 - Seasonic SS-500ET 500W PSU
$22 - Xigmatek HDT-S963 92mm Rifle HSF
---
Total: $202 plus tax and shipping

You can figure out the SSD and 80mm fan by yourself. But the parts I recommended above are better choices for the money and for your system.
 
Not bad, Danny, prompt as always,

quick question. I do have my 3870x2 that I gave my mom, since she was using Integrated, I am thinking of possibly stealing it back, and buying her a cheapy nice radeon, what do you guys think? I gave her games, but all she plays from the games I gave her is Plants vs Zombies, heh.

Ps. Thanks Ghettobox, I am so tired, I did not see your post, I will be building when I am a little more awake!

heh!
 
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pc1x1 said:
quick question. I do have my 3870x2 that I gave my mom, since she was using Integrated, I am thinking of possibly stealing it back, and buying her a cheapy nice radeon, what do you guys think? I gave her games, but all she plays from the games I gave her is Plants vs Zombies, heh.
Click to expand...

I say do it.
 
Danny Bui said:
I say do it.
Click to expand...

Yea getting it back, I asked her, and she said why I asked, I should have taken it already,

so what do you guys think is the best Cheapy Radeon to give her, she has a 24 1920x1200 monitor. But she mostly plays casual games.
 
pc1x1 said:
Yea getting it back, I asked her, and she said why I asked, I should have taken it already,

so what do you guys think is the best Cheapy Radeon to give her, she has a 24 1920x1200 monitor. But she mostly plays casual games.
Click to expand...

A 4650 or 4670 is plenty. No sense in wasting power. (Actually a 4670 is quite good at gaming on medium settings at 1920x1200, surprisingly good!)
 
monkeynetman said:
WHAT IS YOUR MOM DOING WITH A 3870X2???
Click to expand...
Not much when I asked her lol. Every time I upgrade I give my previous graphics card/parts to my parents, so lol Dad has an Extreme Edition Pentium D, and Mom a Quad Core Phenom, and they mostly use AOL, and answer emails, its funny, but at least they have the horsepower, should they want to use it.

ordovician said:
A 4650 or 4670 is plenty. No sense in wasting power. (Actually a 4670 is quite good at gaming on medium settings at 1920x1200, surprisingly good!)
Click to expand...
Ok, this is pretty cheap, so a 4650 it is

Ghettobox said:
How cheap? A single 4650 is just fine for a casual gamer.
Click to expand...
Sounds good :)

I'll work on the build tomorrow. And culminate from your advices hehe.
 
One thing I remembered is the Xigmatek doesn't fit on the Centurion, so anything that size doesn't fit. I need something thats not as tall. Thanks!
 
pc1x1 said:
One thing I remembered is the Xigmatek doesn't fit on the Centurion, so anything that size doesn't fit. I need something thats not as tall. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Are you sure about that? Which model Centurion?
 
enginurd said:
Are you sure about that? Which model Centurion?
Click to expand...

vjcsmoke said:
This 4650 is $35 after MIR. And it's from Newegg, so you know you'll have no problem returning it if something goes wrong within the first 30 days.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121338

This 9600GSO is $40 after MIR and also comes with free shipping.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121320
Click to expand...

4650 is winning at the moment heh!

And yes, because originally I tried building the server into the Centurion, and that uses the Xig, and I could not close the window. Its a very old Centurion, from a couple years ago, couldn't even find a picture of it to be honest. I got it as a gift, was cousins computer, so not sure exactly what model, its on the garage, but Ill dig it up in a bit for more info.
 
I need a PSU recommendation that can take a pretty light system but with a Radeon 3870x2 in the mix. (6 Pin + 8 Pin)

I like Danny's Seasonic, but I am not sure 500 watts is sufficient. Any more recomendations Danny?

Thanks for everyone's responces!!

So far, I went with a few standbys I always use, and your suggestions and added the 4650 to give to my Mom.

PSU
SSD
CPU HSF
4 of these fans
HDD for Data
Mom GFX

Gave a total of: $425.11 + $15.27 shipping = $440.38

I would like to lower this quite a bit if possible.

I am thinking maybe a cheaper SSD, and a cheaper PSU. Any suggestions, and keep going! From what I seen the Mascool, seems to fit fine into the case.
 
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Ghettobox said:
That Masscool I linked looks like it's a pretty compact unit, not sure how your case is configured but you might take a look at it.
Click to expand...

I did, I put it in the build above, thanks for your help, feel free to help more :p
 
The 3870x2 w/ C2Q and a couple drives shouldn't be using more than 350W under full load, so the 500W unit Danny recommended should be fine, even with a mild OC.
 
enginurd said:
The 3870x2 w/ C2Q and a couple drives shouldn't be using more than 350W under full load, so the 500W unit Danny recommended should be fine, even with a mild OC.
Click to expand...

Really are you sure?, I like always having a margin of error, probably why I put 2100 watts on Sestren :p ;).

No one has any recommendations on a cheap OCZ drive, or is this Kingston the way to go?
 
pc1x1 said:
Really are you sure?, I like always having a margin of error, probably why I put 2100 watts on Sestren :p ;).

No one has any recommendations on a cheap OCZ drive, or is this Kingston the way to go?
Click to expand...

100% Sure that the Seasonic I recommended will be enough.

I'd go with OCZ since they seem to do the most amount of updates to their firmware for their SSDs.
 
Heh, you didn't list the parts, so I didn't notice you had a Kingston selected. :p

Eh, no time to check on who Kingston is using for that series, since I can't remember. So... find out; if its Samsung, make sure its a newer Samsung, cuz their old ones suck. If its Intel or Indilinx, you're good to go. Though, like Danny, I prefer OCZ or SuperTalent (both of which have the fastest access to the indilinx updates).
 
Know whats funny? And good thing your here to Eng, Mom's computer is the other desktop we built here at [H], guess what Power Supply she has? the 750 watt PC Power and Cooling, so I am here thinking to myself, lol, worse comes to worse, I can give her whatever PSU I can buy here, she won't be crossfiring or etc, and I can use her PC Power, so that problem is solved and I have power to spare, heh, but good to know 500 watts is enough, I need to stop buying overkill psus, hehehe its a hard habit to break. Moar Power!

Anyhow which PSU

Seasonic PSU

or

Corsair PSU

What SSD's are good out there? I know the Intel ones are, but they are pricey for a temporary system, I need something that has 64 gigs and is affordable, This computer will be used mainly for photoshoping, web design, and CAD work, so I need a little space, but I have a 250 gig external I can drop Data into, and a 500 gig Server, worse comes to worst. Also I decided to drop the second HDD, I have an external from Sestren I can use, Sestren has 11 HDDs aside from this one, It won't miss one, heh.

Kingston SSD
or

???

Masscool CPU HSF

10 Mascool 80mm fans

Mom GFX

Total: $375.01

Its getting better :)
 
The OCZ Vertex and Agility SSDs are a good choice.

PSU wise, the Seasonic is the better buy. There are much much larger PSUs for the same price as the Corsair 550VX. So it's not worth it IMO. In fact, we use to recommend that PSU all the time in the forum when it was $80. Then the prices rose...

So definitely go with the Seasonic.
 
pc1x1 said:
The OCZ SSD's are more expensive than the Kingston at the moment it seems?
...
Click to expand...

If thats the case, I doubt its a newer Samsung, Intel, or Indilinx model, so ditch it. Read the last anandtech article, and the other two if you're more curious about SSDs. :p Indilinx based drives are: Patriot TorqX, SuperTalent UltraDrive ME, G.Skill Falcon, and of course, the OCZ Vertex (Agility, too, but uses slower flash chips; Summit is old Samsung, IIRC).

enginurd said:
If you want more details on the tech behind an SSD, read the Anandtech SSD Anthology.

[Anandtech] The SSD Anthology: Understanding SSDs and New Drives from OCZ
[Anandtech] The SSD Update: Vertex Gets Faster, New Indilinx Drives and Intel/MacBook Problems Resolved
[Anandtech] The SSD Relapse: Understanding and Choosing the Best SSD
[Hard|OCP] SSD RAID scaling under Windows 7

Personally, I went from a 'cuda.10 to a Raptor150 and did not think the performance difference was worth the price premium and space sacrifice. Then I went from a caviar.black640 to a VRaptor300 and again, did not think the performance difference was worth the price premium and space sacrifice. Next I went from a VRaptor300 to an OCZ Vertex 30GB, and yet again, was underwhelmed. Then I picked up a 2nd Vertex 30GB and threw them in RAID0... WOW... I must say, the performance difference is VERY noticeable, but again, the price was pretty steep ($180 total AR in June). Regardless, it was a much bigger performance improvement than any of the Raptors ever were, for even less money than the raptors cost.

I believe the single Vertex was underwhelming because of the slow small random write speeds. As you can see from many tests online, these speeds increase greatly when in RAID0. Since RAID0 is simply striping data across two difference drives, there really isn't any major processing being done, so onboard RAID0 works perfectly fine for up to 650MB/s (around 3 vertex 120GB drives). Here are my screenshots:
http://www.alphaq.org/enginurd/hdd/ocz_vertex.html

As you'll learn from those anandtech articles, the TorqX has a 10yr warranty, and the garbage collection on the most recent firmware is good enough to maintain proper speeds while TRIM support is being worked on.

The Intel X25-M SSDs have fast small random write speeds, but have slower sequential speeds. Conversely, the Indilinx based drives have faster sequential speeds, but slower small random write speeds. When you RAID0 the Indilinx drives, the small random write speeds increase to the levels of the Intel X25-M. For single SSD usage, the Intel is a better choice because of this. One thing to note is that the Indilinx based drives are still faster than mechanical drives, so even in a single drive config, it's still a fast solution (great for laptops/netbooks).
Click to expand...
 
Do you see any drives, I am having a hard time finding anything under 200 dollars thats good.

I can raid 0 two 30's but even those are pricey :(

Kingston SSD

Best SDD at the moment for the price I can find?

If not this then 240 for an Intel one?
 
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Damn, I think you missed the sale on the Agility 30GB for $100AR. Let me look real quick... if I don't post, I didnt find anything and had to leave, lol.

Oh, looks like its still goin:
$130 - OCZ OCZSSD2-1AGT30G Agility series 30GB SATA II Solid State Drive Retail ($30 MIR)

Grab two, since you need 60GB, but make sure you have a friend/cousin/relative/someone else order the other one for you:
The address on your rebate
application must match the billing address on the receipt, packing slip or
invoice. Limit one rebate per qualifying rebate offer per person, billing
address, company, household and receipt/invoice/packing slip
during eligibility period, except where prohibited by law. Only one
rebate application per envelope.
Click to expand...

Damn, Newegg had the UltraDrive ME 64GB for $138, too. Forgot about that one... but they're OOS now. Ugh.
 
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enginurd said:
Damn, I think you missed the sale on the Agility 30GB for $100AR. Let me look real quick... if I don't post, I didnt find anything and had to leave, lol.

Oh, looks like its still goin:
$130 - OCZ OCZSSD2-1AGT30G Agility series 30GB SATA II Solid State Drive Retail ($30 MIR)

Grab two, since you need 60GB, but make sure you have a friend/cousin/relative/someone else order the other one for you:
Click to expand...

So 260 upfront, do you think its worth over an Intel 80 GB?, I know AR its cheaper, but right now I am worried on short term hehehe...

ps. Editing ftw, I saw that Ultra quite sad :(

To be honest, it would be better to stick to a lower price. The closer to $100 total on the SSD, the better : /
 
Yes, I think two in RAID0 is worth it over a single Intel, since both the small random write speeds and the sequentials will be faster than a single X25-M 80GB. Plus, its hard to find an X25-M G2 in stock for under $260. Gotta run, laters!
 
enginurd said:
Yes, I think two in RAID0 is worth it over a single Intel, since both the small random write speeds and the sequentials will be faster than a single X25-M 80GB. Plus, its hard to find an X25-M G2 in stock for under $260. Gotta run, laters!
Click to expand...

Kk, thanks!
 
Well it didn't take me long to find this is a Samsung S3C based ssd. Let me be blunt here though. It may not be the best SSD out there, but if your on a budget I don't really see the issue with it.

Here is a test of it

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.p...k=view&id=328&Itemid=60&limit=1&limitstart=13

It's not ideal, but hey it's not a bad buy either. Impressive read speeds if you ask me for the money. YMMV. And most importantly, it fits your budget. Good luck.
 
Ghettobox said:
Well it didn't take me long to find this is a Samsung S3C based ssd. Let me be blunt here though. It may not be the best SSD out there, but if your on a budget I don't really see the issue with it.

Here is a test of it

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.p...k=view&id=328&Itemid=60&limit=1&limitstart=13

It's not ideal, but hey it's not a bad buy either. Impressive read speeds if you ask me for the money. YMMV. And most importantly, it fits your budget. Good luck.
Click to expand...

The only question I have, is it faster than a standard 2 hdd raid? and basically if it doesn't stutter, its a winner. Heh, I like your choice Ghetto.
 
Well it's rated read/writes are considerably slower. 240/150 vs. 170/100. As for being faster than a HDD raid, hard to say. So many variables at work. The Kingston has a pretty considerable buffer to keep the stutters a non issue (128mb I think I read), and the rated speeds on it are what it does. I personally am leaning towards dropping the hammer on one right now. :cool: The corsair might not be a bad buy, but I think the Kingston is a better deal due to it's rated speeds. Having tests show it actually performs really seals the deal with me.

You could do a lot worse than a quick platter drive. one of the newer WD 500gb platter ones would end up saving you close to $80 or so. And down the road you can grab one of the big dog intel SSD's when the budget allows. Best of luck.
 
Ghettobox said:
Well it's rated read/writes are considerably slower. 240/150 vs. 170/100. As for being faster than a HDD raid, hard to say. So many variables at work. The Kingston has a pretty considerable buffer to keep the stutters a non issue (128mb I think I read), and the rated speeds on it are what it does. I personally am leaning towards dropping the hammer on one right now. :cool: The corsair might not be a bad buy, but I think the Kingston is a better deal due to it's rated speeds. Having tests show it actually performs really seals the deal with me.

You could do a lot worse than a quick platter drive. one of the newer WD 500gb platter ones would end up saving you close to $80 or so. And down the road you can grab one of the big dog intel SSD's when the budget allows. Best of luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I am thinking of going platter, I am going to pick up 4x Intel SSD's in 4-5 months, so I guess I'll wait for the performance jump heh. My poor Areca, needs something to play with!

What are the best cheap Raid 0 drives at the moment?

and why doesn't anyone want this guy, its pretty cheap? Even if its slow in SSD terms?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139004

? seems to be decent at least?
 
Ghettobox said:
Well it didn't take me long to find this is a Samsung S3C based ssd. Let me be blunt here though. It may not be the best SSD out there, but if your on a budget I don't really see the issue with it.

Here is a test of it

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.p...k=view&id=328&Itemid=60&limit=1&limitstart=13

It's not ideal, but hey it's not a bad buy either. Impressive read speeds if you ask me for the money. YMMV. And most importantly, it fits your budget. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Read the AnandTech articles. The major deficiency of SSDs other than Intel/Indilinx/Newer Samsung based drives is stuttering (easily solved with larger cache) and small random write speeds (not so easily solved with better controllers). However, the Intel and Indilinx based controllers still have some performance degradation problems, but those should be solved by trim, and on the indilinx drives, they have garbage collection, which lessens the immediate need for trim support.

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.p...sk=view&id=328&Itemid=60&limit=1&limitstart=7

From that page alone, I'd strongly suggest avoiding that drive, since even a single Vertex drive was underwhelming, compared to a VRaptor. You can typically find the SuperTalent 64GB for around the same price as that Kingston, yet it performs much better than it. Though, again, for the amount of money SSDs cost, the only way to be impressed in a desktop scenario, IMO, is to throw two Indilinx or Intel drives in RAID0 (or Samsungs newer controler, but not their 34nm flash, lol).

pc1x1 said:
Thanks, I am thinking of going platter, I am going to pick up 4x Intel SSD's in 4-5 months, so I guess I'll wait for the performance jump heh. My poor Areca, needs something to play with!

What are the best cheap Raid 0 drives at the moment?
Click to expand...

The Samsung F3 or Seagate 7200.10 'cudas, 500GB -- they're single platter, so their areal density is better than the 333GB-platter drives (caviar black 640/1tb/etc). Plus, they're only $55. ;)
 
enginurd said:
Read the AnandTech articles. The major deficiency of SSDs other than Intel/Indilinx/Newer Samsung based drives is stuttering (easily solved with larger cache) and small random write speeds (not so easily solved with better controllers). However, the Intel and Indilinx based controllers still have some performance degradation problems, but those should be solved by trim, and on the indilinx drives, they have garbage collection, which lessens the immediate need for trim support.

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.p...sk=view&id=328&Itemid=60&limit=1&limitstart=7

From that page alone, I'd strongly suggest avoiding that drive, since even a single Vertex drive was underwhelming, compared to a VRaptor. You can typically find the SuperTalent 64GB for around the same price as that Kingston, yet it performs much better than it. Though, again, for the amount of money SSDs cost, the only way to be impressed in a desktop scenario, IMO, is to throw two Indilinx or Intel drives in RAID0 (or Samsungs newer controler, but not their 34nm flash, lol).



The Samsung F3 or Seagate 7200.10 'cudas, 500GB -- they're single platter, so their areal density is better than the 333GB-platter drives (caviar black 640/1tb/etc). Plus, they're only $55. ;)
Click to expand...

Nice, The F1 750 Gb, is 65 with free shipping. It fits on my budget, which would be a better choice, the F1 or F3? :)
 
I'd go with the F1 for storage.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
For RAID0, get drives with 500GB platters, since they're the fastest out right now; which are the 500GB F3 and 'cuda.12, or Caviar Black 2TB.

For storage, F2 or Caviar Green, since speed doesn't typically matter for storage.
 
Thanks for all the help! I went with the F1, because I like Formula 1. Just because of space really, since this computer will eventually be replaced by Sestren, storage is a bigger concern.

So here's the Final build, except my PC, will use the 750w PC P+C, and my old 3870x2 comes back, (it took forever to get in my mom's midtower, the irony!)

Sata to USB

Seasonic PSU

2x Samsung F1 Raid 0

Masscool CPU HSF

10 Mascool 80mm fans

Mom GFX
 
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