Talk to me about GSYNC

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JSHamlet234

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I'm debating whether or not I should buy a G-Sync monitor.

Right now, I'm using a QNIX 2710 1440P overclocked to 105Hz. If I run games with VSYNC on, my frame rate is locked at 105fps about 98% of the time in the games I play with the hardware I have. I like how smooth things are at vsync-locked 105fps, and I suck at FPS games, so whatever input lag doesn't really matter to me. The other 2% of the time, I get annoying frame drops. My first instinct is to just throw faster hardware at the problem, but then I realize that there will always be more demanding games to play, and expecting to sustain 105fps, all the time, in any game imaginable is an expensive proposition.

Would GSYNC make the frame drops less annoying and less noticeable? I know that's the marketing, but I've never actually tried it because GSYNC monitors used to be really expensive. What has been your experience?
 
Yes, I think a VRR monitor would help you.

I would just get a significantly cheaper Freesync monitor (ideally Freesync 2). I have an LG 32" 1440p Freesync monitor that I got for ~$250 a couple years ago, and it works with both Nvidia and AMD for VRR.

I figure why lock yourself into one manufacturer with a Gsync only panel unless you really need the fringe benefits of what Gsync offers over Freesync (not much).
 
Gsync is great and one of the best things I've used in the past 5+ years. When I first got a 1440p/144hz monitor I still had a gtx 770 and gsync made it possible to play witcher 3 at high settings.
 
So for me I used to be an "all locked all the time" kind of guy, I'd lower settings or buy an even more honkin' GPU to get a solid 60, often leaving a lot of performance on the table. With Gsync no issues anymore. The stuttering/hitching was what bothered me, not a lower frame rate. The frame drops on Gsync aren't very noticeable at all.

I won't go back to a non-VRR monitor for gaming.
 
kirbyrj said:
Certain monitors are compatible. I would even go so far as to say "most" are, but some aren't. Read reviews before buying to make sure.
Click to expand...
It's not so much that they're incompatible, it's that some of them suck. All gsync monitors are tested and certified by Nvidia so you guaranteed a certain quality threshold.
Some of the cheaper freesync monitors add VRR functionality to tick the feature box but don't make the tweaks necessary to make it work well.
 
sharknice said:
It's not so much that they're incompatible, it's that some of them suck. All gsync monitors are tested and certified by Nvidia so you guaranteed a certain quality threshold.
Some of the cheaper freesync monitors add VRR functionality to tick the feature box but don't make the tweaks necessary to make it work well.
Click to expand...

I think with freesync2 You are less likely to find those types of monitors. They slap freesync on monitors with only a 75Hz max which obviously won’t give the type of performance the OP is looking for. I think most of the 144 and above Hz monitors are less likely to be what you’re describing.

With a little research it isn’t that hard to find a very good monitor without paying Nvidia tax for the gsync module. In fact many of the monitors with the gsync module certified by Nvidia have freesync counterparts that are often $150-$200 cheaper.
 
kirbyrj said:
Yes, I think a VRR monitor would help you.

I would just get a significantly cheaper Freesync monitor (ideally Freesync 2). I have an LG 32" 1440p Freesync monitor that I got for ~$250 a couple years ago, and it works with both Nvidia and AMD for VRR.

I figure why lock yourself into one manufacturer with a Gsync only panel unless you really need the fringe benefits of what Gsync offers over Freesync (not much).
Click to expand...

I left out an important detail - I'm running 2 980TI's, and apparently only Pascal or newer arch is able to use Freesync or "GSYNC Compatible" displays?
 
JSHamlet234 said:
I left out an important detail - I'm running 2 980TI's, and apparently only Pascal or newer arch is able to use Freesync or "GSYNC Compatible" displays?
Click to expand...

not sure. I’ve only tried with pascal and above.

Edit: Looks like according to Wikipedia, that is correct. There's no reason why it couldn't run freesync other than NGreedia being NGreedia. Although at this point, video cards are starting to be more available and swapping out those Maxwell cards for something more recent might be in order.
 
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kirbyrj said:
not sure. I’ve only tried with pascal and above.

Edit: Looks like according to Wikipedia, that is correct. There's no reason why it couldn't run freesync other than NGreedia being NGreedia. Although at this point, video cards are starting to be more available and swapping out those Maxwell cards for something more recent might be in order.
Click to expand...

Yep, things are definitely headed in the right direction on that front. 3060TI/3070/3070TI prices are becoming palatable, and I think they still have a ways to drop. It would be nice if the top cards would follow suit, but if not a water-cooled 3070ti would still be a nice upgrade for 1440P.
 
kirbyrj said:
Yes, I think a VRR monitor would help you.

I would just get a significantly cheaper Freesync monitor (ideally Freesync 2). I have an LG 32" 1440p Freesync monitor that I got for ~$250 a couple years ago, and it works with both Nvidia and AMD for VRR.

I figure why lock yourself into one manufacturer with a Gsync only panel unless you really need the fringe benefits of what Gsync offers over Freesync (not much).
Click to expand...
Can GSync monitors not work with FreeSync?
 
kirbyrj said:
The last time I looked into it they did not work because of the way that the Nvidia module works with the card. That might have changed though.
Click to expand...
You need a 1000+ series NVIDIA GPU to work with any DisplayPort FreeSync monitor.

HDMI FreeSync is a bit more hit and miss, but the LG 4K 120Hz OLED VRR HDMI will work with both AMD and NVIDIA cards, FWIW.

Also, for the converse, you need certain 2020-and-newer G-SYNC chipped monitors to work with AMD cards, not all native G-SYNC chipped monitors will do VRR with Radeons.

There are pros/cons of the G-SYNC premium, such as (on average) better dynamic overdrive for less variance in ghosting/coronas as framerate fluctuates. This is less of an issue on some newer panels, especially those AMD certified FreeSync panels that are also simultaneously certified by NVIDIA as “G-SYNC Compatible”.
 
UltraTaco said:
Mates, please talk to me as well about sunchronizations as well! My monitor is 60hz nd when I have vsync enabled nd have less than 60 fps, I still don't have any tearing. Why need gsync monitor when it doesn't tear? Even 23fps is tear-free!

Am I the o ly one who has figured out this magic?
Click to expand...
You have triple buffering enabled with V-Sync, which adds a second backbuffer to the rendering chain. This introduces a large amount of input lag to whatever you're playing, and you can still get judder when the FPS hits a non-integer divisor of your display's refresh rate.

You can read up about all the pros and cons of various syncing and non-syncing methods here:
https://blurbusters.com/

For a display without VRR I would look into using scanline sync with Riva Tuner Statistics Server (RTSS).
https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?t=4916
 
UltraTaco said:
Mates, please talk to me as well about sunchronizations as well! My monitor is 60hz nd when I have vsync enabled nd have less than 60 fps, I still don't have any tearing. Why need gsync monitor when it doesn't tear? Even 23fps is tear-free!

Am I the o ly one who has figured out this magic?
Click to expand...

This thread isnt about tearing, thats what vsync is for, not surprising it works :)
This thread is about smooth looking video with varying framerate. Vsync isnt the answer.

Op, I bought a Samsung CRG9 UW display which isnt GSync certified but is compatible.
It works flawlessly with GSync, not even a tiny issue.
fyi
 
Nenu said:
This thread isnt about tearing, thats what vsync is for, not surprising it works :)
This thread is about smooth looking video with varying framerate. Vsync isnt the answer.

Op, I bought a Samsung CRG9 UW display which isnt GSync certified but is compatible.
It works flawlessly with GSync, not even a tiny issue.
fyi
Click to expand...

The problem is my graphics cards are probably much older than yours, so they're unsupported for "G-Sync Compatible." So I either have to pay for Gsync certified and get locked into the NVIDIA ecosystem, or I have to upgrade my hardware anyway. Upgrading hardware is fun, though. I might go with a 10900K, which would eliminate my CPU bottleneck, and then do the GPU and monitor later on. I'll have to mull it over.
 
JSHamlet234 said:
The problem is my graphics cards are probably much older than yours, so they're unsupported for "G-Sync Compatible." So I either have to pay for Gsync certified and get locked into the NVIDIA ecosystem, or I have to upgrade my hardware anyway. Upgrading hardware is fun, though. I might go with a 10900K, which would eliminate my CPU bottleneck, and then do the GPU and monitor later on. I'll have to mull it over.
Click to expand...
I see, thats unfortunate.
You are right, I have a 30 series card.
 
UltraTaco said:
Mates, please talk to me as well about sunchronizations as well! My monitor is 60hz nd when I have vsync enabled nd have less than 60 fps, I still don't have any tearing. Why need gsync monitor when it doesn't tear? Even 23fps is tear-free!

Am I the o ly one who has figured out this magic?
Click to expand...
For any people living under a rock about variable refresh rates, you might want to check out a simulated animation of VRR.

GSYNC / FreeSync is a good eraser of stutter too, not just tearing.

You can have 60fps -> 59fps -> 45fps -> 30fps -> 45fps -> 60fps almost invisible frame rate transitions, it’s pretty neat how VRR soften those gearshifts between frame rate transitions.
 
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UltraTaco said:
Thank you, mate! Omg taco been looking at the scroll many time nd cnt make it apart. Both look same to me! Am I borken or is it just men eyes are more productive at seeing stutters? Sorry sorry
Click to expand...

I thought it was pretty obvious as the frame rate drops. With VSYNC, the instantaneous frame rate can only ever be a multiple of the refresh rate. So if you have a refresh rate of 100Hz and you average 87fps over one second, what you actually get is a combination of 100fps and 50fps that is averaging out to 87. Because of that, "87 fps" actually plays a lot worse than it sounds.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Can GSync monitors not work with FreeSync?
Click to expand...
No, they do not.

Understand there are multiple kinds of G-Sync monitors out there. You have your G-Sync compatible monitors which are software driven and are basically just FreeSync monitors, although certification is more stringent than FreeSync is. A FreeSync only monitor doesn't necessarily work with G-Sync but G-Sync compatible monitors I've seen do either G-Sync or FreeSync. Then you have hardware based G-Sync which requires an NVIDIA card and there is a hardware based module in the monitor that's not inexpensive. Hardware based G-Sync is truly the best version of variable refresh rate technology, but again it comes at a cost and most wouldn't notice the difference. Hardware G-Sync is slightly smoother and I believe it can handle a larger refresh rate spectrum if I recall correctly.

Of course, I'm simplifying things as there are G-Sync and G-Sync Ultimate hardware modules as well. The latter being more expensive and it supports HDR content up to 1,000 NITs with lower latency I believe.
 
UltraTaco said:
So the easiest is to just set 30fps nd vsync enabled if you cnt maintain 60fps nd dont have g free sync?
Click to expand...

If you have nvidia, I think this setting does that, but I've never actually tried it. The input lag is probably crazy...
 

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Chief Blur Buster said:
For any people living under a rock about variable refresh rates, you might want to check out a simulated animation of VRR.

GSYNC / FreeSync is a good eraser of stutter too, not just tearing.

You can have 60fps -> 59fps -> 45fps -> 30fps -> 45fps -> 60fps almost invisible frame rate transitions, it’s pretty neat how VRR soften those gearshifts between frame rate transitions.
Click to expand...
In my opinion it is essential for high frame rate monitors. With a 60 Hz monitor you can realistically just get enough GPU power to be able to lock to 60fps 99.9% of the time and the few hitches below it, while annoying, are tolerable. However you just aren't going that at higher frame rates. With a modern game you aren't going to lock it to 120+fps unless it is a simple title or you really crank down the settings. That means you either have to deal with tearing or stuttering, or just not get your nice high refresh rate and turn it down. That sucks. VRR means that you no longer have to worry. Just run the game and it'll run as fast as it can. If all it can pull is 90-100fps, cool, your monitor runs at 90-100fps and you get a smoother experience than locking to 60, but no tearing or stuttering.

I would not buy a high refresh monitor without it. Even 60hz monitors benefit from it, but it is just essential for high refresh rate.

Dan_D said:
No, they do not.

Understand there are multiple kinds of G-Sync monitors out there. You have your G-Sync compatible monitors which are software driven and are basically just FreeSync monitors, although certification is more stringent than FreeSync is. A FreeSync only monitor doesn't necessarily work with G-Sync but G-Sync compatible monitors I've seen do either G-Sync or FreeSync. Then you have hardware based G-Sync which requires an NVIDIA card and there is a hardware based module in the monitor that's not inexpensive. Hardware based G-Sync is truly the best version of variable refresh rate technology, but again it comes at a cost and most wouldn't notice the difference. Hardware G-Sync is slightly smoother and I believe it can handle a larger refresh rate spectrum if I recall correctly.

Of course, I'm simplifying things as there are G-Sync and G-Sync Ultimate hardware modules as well. The latter being more expensive and it supports HDR content up to 1,000 NITs with lower latency I believe.
Click to expand...

So new hardware Gsync monitors DO support Freesync. They finally stopped being jerks about it. Problem is, it is only for newer stuff it isn't something getting patched in to older monitors.
 
UltraTaco said:
The delay, it's only like two frames,?
Click to expand...
VRR delay is not necessarily measured in frames, as not all pixels refresh at the same time on a panel — and the sequence of pixel refreshing is somewhat different for VSYNC OFF and VRR.

Therefore, Delay is closer to 0.5 refresh cycles independent of frame rate.

Which means a 60fps game on a 360Hz VRR monitor has a halftime delay of 0.5/360sec, where top edge refreshes instantly (immediately) but takes 1/360 seconds to sweep-scanout to refreshing the bottom edge of the screen.

VRR is the world’s lowest-lag “non-VSYNC-OFF” technology. The higher the Hz, the less lag, even if your frame rate is low.
 
UltraTaco said:
Thank you, mate! Omg taco been looking at the scroll many time nd cnt make it apart. Both look same to me! Am I borken or is it just men eyes are more productive at seeing stutters? Sorry sorry
Click to expand...
It’s person dependant how sensitive to stutter you are.

Other factors that diminishes the difference between top/bottom of the TestUFO VRR simulation:

- The slowness of your existing LCD may influence how the simulation looks (e.g. you are watching the comparison on a very old slow-GtG LCD from 20 years ago).
- It is also possible the web browser is adding excess stutters to the top half, which may make it similar to the bottom half (make sure TestUFO shows a green “READY”).
- It is also theoretically possible that you have a slight motion insensitivity (e.g. partial undiagnosed Akinetopsia).

Everybody has different sensitivites to different elements of gaming (tearing vs lag vs stutter vs color vs motion blur, etc.)
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Can GSync monitors not work with FreeSync?
Click to expand...
My LG 38" Gsync monitor supports Freesync.

This is the way I see it - and I'm assuming you're on an Nvidia GPU:

1. Freesync monitors will work - but you will have significant variation in terms of the user experience. Some will work as well as Gsync and if you get one of those monitors, I think you're fine. But some will not work as well - they will have issues - maybe flicker or inconsistent performance or blank screens, etc.

2. If you get a G-sync monitor, you know you're going to get a great user experience - it's just going to work 100%
I've owned 8 Gsync monitors and they have all been perfect in terms of the variable sync performance.

Some people get their nose out of joint about the "Nvidia Tax" - ok, maybe, but it's an actual FPGA module, it's not just some setting or scheme and it works great - all the time (in my experience) - I know I would be extremely frustrated and irritated if I had to deal with some of the issues I've read about on "G-sync Compatible" monitors so whatever you do, do your due diligence...
 
I know NVidia Gsync cannot be used on Freesync "only" displays over HDMI 2.0 but am not sure about Displayport.
ie you cannot make an HDMI 2.0 TV with VRR use it with any NVidia card. My Samsung Q9FN will not enable VRR with my 3090 card.

As far as I'm aware, the only Freesync monitors that will work with NVidia cards to get VRR are those monitors that have Freesync AND GSync support built in, whether official or not.
So they use GSync, not Freesync.
If this is wrong it would be interesting to know.
Perhaps its different with HDMI 2.1 displays, and Displayport?

Edit
forgot to add...
I have a Samsung CRG9 Freesync/Gsync compatible display with Displayport 1.4.
There is no way to enable Freesync support with my 3090 but enablng GSync works great.
 
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Just wanted to add a useless comment that every time I see a notification on a reply to this thread and the “GYSNC” title, my mind immediately thinks *NSYNC. Guess I have a crush on Justin after all these years...
 
Nenu said:
I know NVidia Gsync cannot be used on Freesync "only" displays over HDMI 2.0 but am not sure about Displayport.
ie you cannot make an HDMI 2.0 TV with VRR use it with any NVidia card. My Samsung Q9FN will not enable VRR with my 3090 card.

As far as I'm aware, the only Freesync monitors that will work with NVidia cards to get VRR are those monitors that have Freesync AND GSync support built in, whether official or not.
So they use GSync, not Freesync.
If this is wrong it would be interesting to know.
Perhaps its different with HDMI 2.1 displays, and Displayport?

Edit
forgot to add...
I have a Samsung CRG9 Freesync/Gsync compatible display with Displayport 1.4.
There is no way to enable Freesync support with my 3090 but enablng GSync works great.
Click to expand...
  • G-Sync = monitor has a Nvidia G-Sync module.
  • G-Sync Ultimate = monitor has higher end G-Sync module that supports things like HDR.
  • G-Sync Compatible = Freesync. It's literally just Nvidia vs AMD branding.
Freesync over HDMI is a proprietary thing for AMD which is why it does not work with Nvidia GPUs. Freesync over Displayport however does. Nvidia was once again just being clever by calling it G-Sync Compatible so that their brand name for VRR is more prominent.

When you turn G-Sync on with your 3090 you enable Freesync with the CRG9.
 
kasakka said:
  • G-Sync = monitor has a Nvidia G-Sync module.
  • G-Sync Ultimate = monitor has higher end G-Sync module that supports things like HDR.
  • G-Sync Compatible = Freesync. It's literally just Nvidia vs AMD branding.
Freesync over HDMI is a proprietary thing for AMD which is why it does not work with Nvidia GPUs. Freesync over Displayport however does. Nvidia was once again just being clever by calling it G-Sync Compatible so that their brand name for VRR is more prominent.

When you turn G-Sync on with your 3090 you enable Freesync with the CRG9.
Click to expand...
Thanks, great response.

Is Gsync compatible over HDMI 2.1 workable?

Gsync compatible over DP in my case is very effective.
The CRG9 is smooth all the time when using VRR with a 3090, I havent noticed a moment of judder since I got it around last November, perhaps I'm getting old :)
And it supports HDR without issue.
It gives me no reason to seek a Gsync Ultimate display, this is what I wonder about the most.
The gaming experience with Cyberpunk in HDR is incredible, I get lost in it so badly, unintentionally going to bed when the sun starts to rise!
God I'm tired.
 
Nenu said:
Thanks, great response.

Is Gsync compatible over HDMI 2.1 workable?
Click to expand...

GSYNC over HDMI 2.1 on my LG CX works great. It did have some teething issues when it HDMI was first introduced in GPUs, but that has been worked out and works great.
 
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kasakka said:
  • G-Sync = monitor has a Nvidia G-Sync module.
  • G-Sync Ultimate = monitor has higher end G-Sync module that supports things like HDR.
  • G-Sync Compatible = Freesync. It's literally just Nvidia vs AMD branding.
Freesync over HDMI is a proprietary thing for AMD which is why it does not work with Nvidia GPUs. Freesync over Displayport however does. Nvidia was once again just being clever by calling it G-Sync Compatible so that their brand name for VRR is more prominent.

When you turn G-Sync on with your 3090 you enable Freesync with the CRG9.
Click to expand...
Correction:
G-SYNC Compatible = G-SYNC VRR over VESA Adaptive Sync

The reason you can't use a NVIDIA video card with a Freesync monitor is because they don't support Freesync.
 
kirbyrj said:
The last time I looked into it they did not work because of the way that the Nvidia module works with the card. That might have changed though.
Click to expand...
kasakka said:
  • G-Sync = monitor has a Nvidia G-Sync module.
  • G-Sync Ultimate = monitor has higher end G-Sync module that supports things like HDR.
  • G-Sync Compatible = Freesync. It's literally just Nvidia vs AMD branding.
Freesync over HDMI is a proprietary thing for AMD which is why it does not work with Nvidia GPUs. Freesync over Displayport however does. Nvidia was once again just being clever by calling it G-Sync Compatible so that their brand name for VRR is more prominent.

When you turn G-Sync on with your 3090 you enable Freesync with the CRG9.
Click to expand...
There's nothing proprietary about Freesync on HDMI. Freesync is an open standard. Nvidia is just being weird and stubborn about how they support VRR.
 
chameleoneel said:
There's nothing proprietary about Freesync on HDMI. Freesync is an open standard. Nvidia is just being weird and stubborn about how they support VRR.
Click to expand...
As far as I'm aware there are no other contributors to Freesync other than AMD. It may as well be proprietary.
 
Armenius said:
As far as I'm aware there are no other contributors to Freesync other than AMD. It may as well be proprietary.
Click to expand...
Ok but Nvidia has gone out of their way to avoid actually using Freesync. To the point they would rather manually validate individual monitors to be compatible with Gsync, via the Vesa Adaptive Sync standards. And most of the time----it doesn't support HDMI. Its really strange behavior. Its not so bad now that many of the common monitors have Gsync support, one way or another. But the general lack of HDMI support is still stupid.
 
chameleoneel said:
Ok but Nvidia has gone out of their way to avoid actually using Freesync. To the point they would rather manually validate individual monitors to be compatible with Gsync, via the Vesa Adaptive Sync standards. And most of the time----it doesn't support HDMI. Its really strange behavior. Its not so bad now that many of the common monitors have Gsync support, one way or another. But the general lack of HDMI support is still stupid.
Click to expand...

You actually can use any freesync monitor that has displayport even if it doesn't show up on the list as gsync compatible.
There was a limit to how old the GPUs AMD made compatible when it came out. There might be some sort of HDMI controller hardware limitation and that is why NVIDIA never added HDMI VRR support until HDMI 2.1 cards came out. But it could have also been a strategic move to push people to GSYNC, or they didn't want to spend money adding it to their drivers, greed, etc.
 
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