T1 line to gamers

K

Kako

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 15, 2001
Messages
371
I have a T1 line available and I have the option of finding people interested in renting it out for game servers. I know their are big name server hosting companies that gamers may prefer to use instead. What would I have to do or provide to be able to make enough money to have to keep this line? Games choices is not a problem. Anything goes. How many games of lets say UT2k4, 32 player servers can I have running before the bandwidth is maxed. Unreal is not an only option. CS or BFVietnam may be other options. Or whatever they buyer wants. If they want their own physical server co-located at the data center, that is also acceptable. Ideas are still floating around in my head, until they solidify, any feedback from you guys is very much appreciated. Any interest on your own part for a server, let me know what you would want.

-K
 
Yeah, unless you and a few neighbohrs are going to start up an 8 player server that you will use, its not going to be fast enough.
 
JAW said:
T1 isn't fast enough for one server let alone many.
Click to expand...

heyheyhey said:
Yeah, unless you and a few neighbohrs are going to start up an 8 player server that you will use, its not going to be fast enough.
Click to expand...


Please explain guys. How can a dedicated T1 line NOT provide the bandwidth for a couple running servers. Throwing some numbers at me will clear things up quite a bit. A 8 player server to me is ridiculous to think that it is all it can provide.
 
T1's are slow, they are only 1.5mbit. You can get cable nowadays that has twice the downspeed of that. New games like UT2K4 require a huge amount of bandwidth, may more than 1.5mbit, not to mention a good server as well.
 
rayg said:
T1's are slow, they are only 1.5mbit. You can get cable nowadays that has twice the downspeed of that. New games like UT2K4 require a huge amount of bandwidth, may more than 1.5mbit, not to mention a good server as well.
Click to expand...

But cable doesn't provide very good upspeed unlike a T1. My cable is 1/2 mbit up but thats alot as most are 1/8th mbit up.....
 
for halflife servers the general rule is 1/10th of a mbit for a single person. So 15 people = 1.5mbit/sec. You can probably squeeze in 20-24 if you cut back the rates.
 
ouch, if t1's are only 1.5 mbit (granted downstream AND upstream) how come they are still like $500-$1000?

and whats a t3 line? (mbit wise)
 
A T3 is 44.7 mbps and that will run you well into $2000+ range.

Hosting a server demands stable and high end download and upload bandwith and a T1 simply won't cut it with todays games with lots of players. The reason they are so expensive is that its a dedicated leased line connection between and the phone company and the ISP. No one but you is on that connection at all times. They also consist of multiple channel, 24 for T1 and 672 for a T3. T3's are mainly used for backbones, definently way out of your price range, and most companies won't provide T3 unless your a business anyway.

These are not server numbers but this gives you an idea of how much data is transferred to and back from me when I play online games. Multiply this by the number of users and you get a general idea of how fast bandwith each person eats up

Battlefield 1942 Coral Sea

Start time: 7/20/2004 9:37:16 PM
Stop time: 7/20/2004 9:44:34 PM
Elapsed: 00:07:17.9

Data Transfer Download Upload
------------------------------------
Total data transferred 3.08 MB 0.89 MB
Maximum transfer rate 12.2 kB/sec 5.6 kB/sec
Average transfer rate 7.2 kB/sec 2.1 kB/sec

Unreal Tournament 2004 Arctic Stronghold

Start time: 7/20/2004 9:46:26 PM
Stop time: 7/20/2004 10:00:58 PM
Elapsed: 00:14:31.8

Data Transfer Download Upload
------------------------------------
Total data transferred 4.49 MB 1.83 MB
Maximum transfer rate 26.3 kB/sec 7.0 kB/sec
Average transfer rate 5.3 kB/sec 2.2 kB/sec

BF1942 Aberdeen

Start time: 7/20/2004 10:08:20 PM
Stop time: 7/20/2004 10:31:51 PM
Elapsed: 00:23:30.8

Data Transfer Download Upload
------------------------------------
Total data transferred 9.91 MB 4.02 MB
Maximum transfer rate 14.0 kB/sec 4.9 kB/sec
Average transfer rate 7.2 kB/sec 2.9 kB/sec
 
IceWind said:
A T3 is 44.7 mbps and that will run you well into $2000+ range.

Hosting a server demands stable and high end download and upload bandwith and a T1 simply won't cut it with todays games with lots of players. The reason they are so expensive is that its a dedicated leased line connection between and the phone company and the ISP. No one but you is on that connection at all times. They also consist of multiple channel, 24 for T1 and 672 for a T3. T3's are mainly used for backbones, definently way out of your
Click to expand...

very nice... and if your on the backbone? I know some college in boston offered that to their students, what kind of speeds there?
 
sniper991122 said:
very nice... and if your on the backbone? I know some college in boston offered that to their students, what kind of speeds there?
Click to expand...

Depends on University but maybe their on a dedicated Fiber or T3 connection, Im not sure with colleges around the USA. Though its a good chance they may not want students hosting servers but that just really depends on the campus I guess. My campus will just assume throw you in jail if your found hosting P2P of any kind so needless to say, no one hosts games server at my collegee
 
IceWind said:
They also consist of multiple channel, 24 for T1 and 672 for a T3.
Click to expand...
I think it's possible to rent a certain amount of channels instead of a full T3 line, which is overpriced and overkill anyway. I don't know how much it would cost though.
 
Might aswell pay $10,000, get your building lit and wired with fiber, and go with Cogent 100mbps for $1000 a month, although Cogent is crap for low-latency anything...
 
I believe T1 has costs of $300+ dollars while T3 can start at rather $1,000+. T1 would be more than enough for older games such as Q3 feeding up to 16 players however since the rise of complexity and the more complex instructions are being sent over the line by newer games, T1 wouldn't cut it anymore. T3 would be sufficient.

-J.
 
I would like to know where you can get a T3 (assuming it's quality) for $1,000/mo because I will be signing up as soon as that company opens up on Monday.

I don't think I've seen a T-3 for under $10,000/mo, and that's from a sketchy company.
 
It's extremely rare to get a $1,000 dollar per month T3 connection. I have only seen one that charges $1300-ish dollars for basic T3 connection without any of the goodies or whatnot ( I wish I knew what I was talking about ). I forgot the website, so. However, most charge about $3000 dollars past. So much! :-/

Eitherway, you have to contact your ISP or your ISP's backbone network and ask for details on such a connection.

-J.
 
I think you're looking at a shared or fractional T-3 and not the full line.
 
Yep, that's the one. But I have no idea what service that exactly is. Hehe.

-J.
 
A t1 you should be able to get 2 decent servers going, I would try 1 server and see how it goes, remember, a full t1 is full duplex, it can send 1.5mpbs, and, recieve it at the same time, lets see youe cable modem do that(can't it is 1/2 duplex:p)

Edit, around here, a full dedicaed t1 will cost you close to 700$ a month, you also still have to factor in the install also...
 
sniper991122 said:
very nice... and if your on the backbone? I know some college in boston offered that to their students, what kind of speeds there?
Click to expand...


Heres a little table of speeds I threw together (note: all are symetrical, ie upload=download)

Code: 
NON-SYNCRONUS
Signal    Bit Rate   Channels
-----------------------------
DS0       64Kbps     1 DSO
DS1 (T1)  1.544Mbps  24 DSOs
DS2 (T2)  6.312Mbps  96 DSOs
DS3 (T3)  44.736Mbps 28 DS1s

DS= Digital Signal

SONET (Synchronus Optical NETworks)
Signal          Bit Rate
---------------------------
STS-1   (OC1)   51.84Mbps 
STS-3   (OC3)   155.520Mbps
STS-12  (OC12)  622.080Mbps
STS-48  (OC48)  2488.320Mbps
STS-192 (OC192) 9953.280Mbps
STS-768 (OC768) 39813.12Mbps

STS= Synchonus Transport Signal
OC= Optical Carrier


OC192 is about the fastest your realy going to find as Cisco just recently released their new Carrier Routing System which I believe is the first OC768 on the market. Thou if your college backbone, it is entirely possible to have multiple OC192s and have a combined speed that exceeds one OC768. Either way, thats a crapload of p0rn :D
 
sniper991122 said:
ouch, if t1's are only 1.5 mbit (granted downstream AND upstream) how come they are still like $500-$1000?

and whats a t3 line? (mbit wise)
Click to expand...

The reason why T1 cost so much is because you are paying for dedicated 1.5 speed. You are paying for immediate service if your connecting goes down for any reason. For buisnesses where uptime is a must, a fully dedicated 1.5 line with damn near 100% uptime is much more important than having a 3.0 mb residential line that doesn't have any quarantees of dedicated bandwidth along with the fact that if your residential line is down the ISP doesn't send their best tech out to your location immediately to sort it out, rain or shine, night or day. Thats the where the extra money goes. You also get several other key benefits with a T1.

You get what you pay for on a T1. I do agree that T1 for the prices that go at now is quite extravagant. I foresee that the 1.5 speeds of a T1 will be upgraded by companies in the not ot distant future seening as how the price/speed ratio just isn't viable anymore considering how bandwidth intensive apps are getting these days. The 1.5 T1 speed bit has been set in stone a while back when bandwidth needs weren't what they are now.
 
sc0tty8 said:
A t1 you should be able to get 2 decent servers going, I would try 1 server and see how it goes, remember, a full t1 is full duplex, it can send 1.5mpbs, and, recieve it at the same time, lets see youe cable modem do that(can't it is 1/2 duplex:p)
Click to expand...

I used to have 800/800 connection for only $30 dollars a month, until they changed the speeds to accomodate to the people's annoying demands-- 3000/256. :-/ And my cable modem can do full duplex or half, it works either way.

-J.
 
im still using plastic cups and a string to play multiplayer frogger with my neighbhor.....wheres my spell check ?

hey Icewind im goin for my IS too ... it just took me 2 years to figure it out lol.
 
GeForceX said:
I used to have 800/800 connection for only $30 dollars a month, until they changed the speeds to accomodate to the people's annoying demands-- 3000/256. :-/ And my cable modem can do full duplex or half, it works either way.

-J.
Click to expand...


your cable modem is not synchonous.
what he meant by a t1 being "full duplex" is that when you are uploading, it has no effect on the download.

if you max out the upstream on your cable, you will significantly notice decreased download speeds.
 
SYN ACK said:
if you max out the upstream on your cable, you will significantly notice decreased download speeds.
Click to expand...
While I'm not sure about the duplex, I do know that's *not* the reason for the behavior you're describing.

Downloads go to pot because you don't have the upstream remaining to send the ACK, not because you've got too many collisions. Otherwise there'd be no reason to get something with 256 up instead of 128 up, because you've described a hard speed limit.

Given your handle, you of all people should know that.
 
SCSI-Terminator said:
OC192 is about the fastest your realy going to find as Cisco just recently released their new Carrier Routing System which I believe is the first OC768 on the market. Thou if your college backbone, it is entirely possible to have multiple OC192s and have a combined speed that exceeds one OC768. Either way, thats a crapload of p0rn :D
Click to expand...

what sort of company would need a carrier routing system?

just wondering
 
ne0-reloaded said:
what sort of company would need a carrier routing system?

just wondering
Click to expand...

ISPs, datacenters, NOCs, perhaps even large-area networks.
 
IceWind said:
Battlefield 1942 Coral Sea

Start time: 7/20/2004 9:37:16 PM
Stop time: 7/20/2004 9:44:34 PM
Elapsed: 00:07:17.9

Data Transfer Download Upload
------------------------------------
Total data transferred 3.08 MB 0.89 MB
Maximum transfer rate 12.2 kB/sec 5.6 kB/sec
Average transfer rate 7.2 kB/sec 2.1 kB/sec

Unreal Tournament 2004 Arctic Stronghold

Start time: 7/20/2004 9:46:26 PM
Stop time: 7/20/2004 10:00:58 PM
Elapsed: 00:14:31.8

Data Transfer Download Upload
------------------------------------
Total data transferred 4.49 MB 1.83 MB
Maximum transfer rate 26.3 kB/sec 7.0 kB/sec
Average transfer rate 5.3 kB/sec 2.2 kB/sec

BF1942 Aberdeen

Start time: 7/20/2004 10:08:20 PM
Stop time: 7/20/2004 10:31:51 PM
Elapsed: 00:23:30.8

Data Transfer Download Upload
------------------------------------
Total data transferred 9.91 MB 4.02 MB
Maximum transfer rate 14.0 kB/sec 4.9 kB/sec
Average transfer rate 7.2 kB/sec 2.9 kB/sec
Click to expand...

Now, assuming these numbers are correct, let's do a little math...

From these numbers it is obvious that the upload speed for a server is far more important than the download speed, so we can ignore download speed. 1.5Mbps * 1MB/sec / 8Mbps = 187.5 KB/sec maximum upload/download speed for a T1 line.

So, for BF1942 the worst case AVERAGE client download rate is 7.2 kB/sec while the upload rate is 2.9 kB/sec. This means that the server must be capable of uploading 7.2 KB/sec for each player. 187.5 KB/sec / 7.2 KB/sec = 26 players max (using average transfer speeds). I am comfortable using average transfer speeds because every player is not going to be consuming their maximum bandwidth at the same time.

For UT2004, the average client download and upload rates are 5.3 kB/sec 2.2 kB/sec, respectively. In this case, the server needs 5.3 KB/sec upload bandwidth for each player. 187.5 KB/sec / 5.3 KB/sec = 35 players max.

In reality, you would probably want to leave a little bit of a cushion for each player so maybe for BF1942 you would want to limit the number of players to 22-24 and for UT2004 30-32 or so. But a T1 should allow you to run either of these games with a decent number of players.
 
sniper991122 said:
ouch, if t1's are only 1.5 mbit (granted downstream AND upstream) how come they are still like $500-$1000?
Click to expand...

There's a certain Quality of Service with them. There is no cable/dsl-ish "variable speed" nonsense. It's 1.5Mbit. Absolute. They also have service uptime commitments. Your cable internet goes down at 3am, as long as it's just you, you're out of luck until business hours. A T1, a tech will be there at 3am to fix it if needed.

^- NOC = Network Operations Center, where all the network engineers hang out.
 
SYN ACK said:
your cable modem is not synchonous.
what he meant by a t1 being "full duplex" is that when you are uploading, it has no effect on the download.

if you max out the upstream on your cable, you will significantly notice decreased download speeds.
Click to expand...

According to my tests, no it does not. My cable modem is synchronous. I did the testing with my 800/800 back then, full speed both ways. I even asked my cable provider, they said the same thing.

-J.
 
sc0tty8 said:
A t1 you should be able to get 2 decent servers going, I would try 1 server and see how it goes, remember, a full t1 is full duplex, it can send 1.5mpbs, and, recieve it at the same time, lets see youe cable modem do that(can't it is 1/2 duplex:p)

Edit, around here, a full dedicaed t1 will cost you close to 700$ a month, you also still have to factor in the install also...
Click to expand...

Cablemodem isn't actually half-duplex, but queueing in general is pretty poor. The way IP works is that you must send an ACK packet for every packet received to confirm that yes, you got the packet fine, and yes, the checksum checks out so it shouldn't be corrupt and doesn't need to be re-sent. When you fully saturate your upload, not many ACKs are sent out (or rather, they get pushed on the queue with all the stuff you're uploading) and your download speed goes to shit.

Cablemodem technology has seperate upload and download channels, and with proper packet queueing and management it is possible to saturate both.

With just Windows and your cablemodem going at it with nothing to help, though, it's not going to happen.
 
rayg said:
T1's are slow, they are only 1.5mbit. You can get cable nowadays that has twice the downspeed of that. New games like UT2K4 require a huge amount of bandwidth, may more than 1.5mbit, not to mention a good server as well.
Click to expand...


Only 1.5? I have a 3 mbit for my DSL line and your saying its faster than T1? Wow.
 
RedLightning said:
The way IP works is that you must send an ACK packet for every packet received to confirm that yes, you got the packet fine, and yes, the checksum checks out so it shouldn't be corrupt and doesn't need to be re-sent.
Click to expand...

If you want to get technical, generally, ACKs are not sent for every packet. IP has a sliding window protocol, where the window size is the number of packets the can be received before being acked. IP actually sends ACKs for the next packet that it is expecting. So if a machine gets and ACK for packet #42, that means that all packets before 42 have been succesfully received.
 
I run BF:V and UT2K4 on my T1 with a dedicated server..

both are fine for 22-32 players..
 
SYN ACK said:
your cable modem is not synchonous.
what he meant by a t1 being "full duplex" is that when you are uploading, it has no effect on the download.

if you max out the upstream on your cable, you will significantly notice decreased download speeds.
Click to expand...


Exactly, and, yes, cable modems along with *most* residential/consumer internet *is* 1/2 duplex. When you have a full dupolex connection, you will know it, as it will cost more.

I would dump my 3mbps/256kbps any day for a full t1 line any day, I would love to have a full duplex connection with some decent upload.

I use to run cs servers off of my cable modem all the time, I could generally have 2 people on the lan playing, and 6 people online enter and we still got some decent pings, usually in the 40-80 range. Once in a while, we would have them in the 100-120 range, then it was just unbearably slow....
 
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