SystemCooling + AC

[Erasmus354]

That is not AC Fluid as it is a different color. That looks like too much dye.

did you even read that thread?

I think the question is did you? That is from running distilled water + AC Fluid, no dyes.

 

[thewhiteguy]

i dont care what the thread says, that guy had something in his loop other than water and ac fluid. ac fluid is NOT green, its almost clear.

Dillute all of that crap into a loop and you won't see it.

 

[Top Nurse]

I thought it was important to note that all the people who claimed to have a problem with AC Fluid either didn't clean their systems prior to use or mixed it incorrectly. The bottle says 2% and I suspect this is not a case of more is better.

 

[thewhiteguy]

I thought it was important to note that all the people who claimed to have a problem with AC Fluid either didn't clean their systems prior to use or mixed it incorrectly. The bottle says 2% and I suspect this is not a case of more is better.

Even if it was 100% it shouldn't gunk up like that.

 

[Top Nurse]

Even if it was 100% it shouldn't gunk up like that.

I suppose so as well because it has nothing to do with the use of AC Fluid. This is one of those things that has a casual connection to a problem. IOW no direct link from the gunk to the AC Fluid. Besides I have heard of other similar problems with other jet blocks like the G5.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

I think the question is did you? That is from running distilled water + AC Fluid, no dyes.

you are hopelessly trying aren't you? Maybe you should install that Cuplex XT and try it for yourself. I will buy it from you if you can get it to clog with distilled water and AC Fluid, when mixed per specs. Oh, sorry you don't watercool do you?

btw: where are the no less than three people? I bet I can go hunting and find more than three who had the same problem with any other additive.

 

[n00btard]

it still isn't directly over the core.

of course it isn't, putting the frikkin' thermistor over the core would prevent the heatsink from making proper contact with the IHS. But at least the readings are consistent and the temps you'd get wouldn't vary wildly with the motherboard you use, and it'll be closer to the real thing than a mobo sensor.

 

[Erasmus354]

you are hopelessly trying aren't you? Maybe you should install that Cuplex XT and try it for yourself. I will buy it from you if you can get it to clog with distilled water and AC Fluid, when mixed per specs. Oh, sorry you don't watercool do you?

btw: where are the no less than three people? I bet I can go hunting and find more than three who had the same problem with any other additive.

<sarcasm> yes you are right in every respect. AC is god, anything tubing larger than 6mm causes your computer to spontaneously combust, if you dont have aluminum in your loop your going straight to hell, and I dont and have never watercooled </sarcasm>

There were two people who responded in the first 15 posts of that thread saying they had the same exact problem running distilled water + AC Fluid. Of course if you had read the thread you would have seen that but it is easier to go blindly flaming.

I am guessing it is a reaction between the gunk leftover in the radiator (radiators usually have chemicals and stuff in them) and the AC Fluid which combines to create that slime. Cleaning out the radiator before hand likely would absolve the problem. However, this is simply another argument for not using mixed metals. If you can avoid using additives it removes another source of hassle, "How much do I have to mix with the water." K-I-S-S


P.S. -- I find it interesting that this thread remained relatively civil until R1ck and TN started their religious preaching.

 

[theseeker]

In my last system had 1 Cuplex XT, 2 Twinplex GPU, 1 Twinplex NB, 1 MIPS Mosfet, 2 RADS and an Aquatube, after 1 year with AC Fluid and AC Blue Dye, I had no slime or anything else in my blocks. I do not claim that AC is the best, I dont think there is a clear winner. I bought AC because there was not a clear winner and thus I picked AC because I liked its looks over the alternatives. Had there been a clear cut winner, I would have purchased it. To this day I do not belive there is a clear cut winner in H2O cooling, nor do I belive there will be one. It remains a matter of personal taste and because it does, I suggest every one put down their sling shots.

 

[DFI Daishi]

Oh, sorry you don't watercool do you?

ehm.....he put up a thread showing his PA-160 install a while back.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1031441&highlight=PA160+P180

it's not like pictures prove a thing, but it's as much proof as anyone has showing that they actually watercool.

incidently, i think that it's a shame that systemcooling's review of the thermaltake bigwater was done by a different reviewer using a different testbench than the review of the A-C kit is going to use.

 

[theseeker]

ehm.....he put up a thread showing his PA-160 install a while back.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1031441&highlight=PA160+P180

it's not like pictures prove a thing, but it's as much proof as anyone has showing that they actually watercool.

incidently, i think that it's a shame that systemcooling's review of the thermaltake bigwater was done by a different reviewer using a different testbench than the review of the A-C kit is going to use.

Dashi,

I think you missed his point, however please refer to the previous post.

 

[Top Nurse]

I'm suprised that Bio-Hazard hasn't been here to throw in on this AC Fluid issue so I found something of interest in the SystemCooling water cooling reviews:

Subject: Liquid Cooling
Date: January 11, 2005
Author: ..."Bio-Hazard"...
Source: Alphacool



The Coolant: Tec-Protect-Clear 500ml

I’ve never used this type of additive before, so I had to go to Alphacools web site to find out more about it. This is what they have to say about their coolant additive:

The Tec-Protect-Plus corrosion protection and heat carrier additive protects water-cooling systems reliably against corrosion and it is first of all recommendable for using different metals in cooling system. It is not necessary to mix the additive any more, but it is suited for a complete set.

Technical data:

Color: Transparent
Adapted for: Systems with copper and/or aluminum components.
Content: 500ml

Due to the low quantity of the additive, the high heat capacity of the water is almost completely maintained. It contains no glycol, but hydroxyl phosphor carboxylic acid!

Sounds like its quality stuff and should take care of any corrosion worries you may have in your system.

As I stated before the recommended mixture is 2% concentration so one bottle of AC Fluid equals about 2.5 liters of ready made fluid. Glad I only bought a small concentrated bottle as the shipping for 2.5 liters from Germany would have been killer.

However, the stuff that AC uses is called: Hydroxyphosphoncarbonsaure and you might try try this link if you want to know more about how it works. I think we might have some chemists around here who might shed some more light on this.

I did find this one small note about phosphates on a link off the AC Forum: "Phosphonates offer a wide range of sequestrants to control metal ions in aqueous systems. By forming stable water soluble complexes with multivalent metal ions, phosphonates prevent undesired interaction by blocking normal reactivity of metal ions." So even though I am not a chemist it seems to me that AC Fluid is not rocket science, but just another use of a common product.

As a side note I also noticed that similar chemical compounds are used in the manufacture of soaps and surfactants so it may very well be that using AC Fluid cleans out the system for you. In retrospect I recall Shoggy stating that he always ran AC Fluid though his rigs and promptly dumped it out after leak testing to "clean out the pollution" and then re-filled with the properly mixed AC Fluid/distilled H20 mix for final use in the system.

 

[DFI Daishi]

I'm suprised that Bio-Hazard hasn't been here to throw in on this AC Fluid issue so I found something of interest in the SystemCooling water cooling reviews:



As I stated before the recommended mixture is 2% concentration so one bottle of AC Fluid equals about 2.5 liters of ready made fluid. Glad I only bought a small concentrated bottle as the shipping for 2.5 liters from Germany would have been killer.

However, the stuff that AC uses is called: Hydroxyphosphoncarbonsaure and you might try try this link if you want to know more about how it works. I think we might have some chemists around here who might shed some more light on this.

I did find this one small note about phosphates on a link off the AC Forum: "Phosphonates offer a wide range of sequestrants to control metal ions in aqueous systems. By forming stable water soluble complexes with multivalent metal ions, phosphonates prevent undesired interaction by blocking normal reactivity of metal ions." So even though I am not a chemist it seems to me that AC Fluid is not rocket science, but just another use of a common product.

As a side note I also noticed that similar chemical compounds are used in the manufacture of soaps and surfactants so it may very well be that using AC Fluid cleans out the system for you. In retrospect I recall Shoggy stating that he always ran AC Fluid though his rigs and promptly dumped it out after leak testing to "clean out the pollution."

psst....hey.....come close while i whisper a BIG secret to you: that's the same family of anti-corrosive chemicals that is used in most dexcool rated antifreeze.....zerex, prestone, pentosin, motomaster.......they all have some variation on that theme.

there are often very good reasons to mix copper, aluminium, steel and iron in a car's cooling solution. use of proper mix ratios of water and antifreeze slow down corrosion enough to give an engin a normal service life. if there was a similar reason for the presence of aluminium in in A-C loops, i wouldn't have a problem with it being there. as it is, it's just decorative and there is no reason that they couldn't have a solid plastic liner inside of the aquatube, to retain the nice looks of the outside and prevent fluid contact between galvanically dissimilar metals.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

Dashi,

I think you missed his point, however please refer to the previous post.

Plus the post is less than two week old........ If you get my point

 

[Top Nurse]

psst....hey.....come close while i whisper a BIG secret to you: that's the same family of anti-corrosive chemicals that is used in most dexcool rated antifreeze.....zerex, prestone, pentosin, motomaster.......they all have some variation on that theme.

there are often very good reasons to mix copper, aluminium, steel and iron in a car's cooling solution. use of proper mix ratios of water and antifreeze slow down corrosion enough to give an engin a normal service life. if there was a similar reason for the presence of aluminium in in A-C loops, i wouldn't have a problem with it being there. as it is, it's just decorative and there is no reason that they couldn't have a solid plastic liner inside of the aquatube, to retain the nice looks of the outside and prevent fluid contact between galvanically dissimilar metals.

You are missing the point here. Why add anti-freeze to a cooling system that never freezes? So you do add the stuff only that you need which is a corrosion inhibitor. Since the corrosion inhibitor stops the problem (at a 2% concentration) from occuring then why not use metals in whatever way that pleases you? If you don't want to use aluminum then don't do it, but get off everyones back that does want to use it and quit telling people it is going to corrode their systems when it isn't going to happen.

I'm through with this subject for a while as it appears to be circular thinking expressed around here and I usually find that process to be annoying.

So does anyone KNOW what the hell is the hold up on the AC review? My personal opinion is that Sharka is holding up the show here as I see no benefit for SC one way or the other in a delay.

 

[Top Nurse]

"How much do I have to mix with the water." K-I-S-S


P.S. -- I find it interesting that this thread remained relatively civil until R1ck and TN started their religious preaching.

KISS ASS = Keep It Simple Stupid And Stay Stupid.

So how did you expect us to keep this thread alive till the review came out?

 

[ikellensbro]

You are missing the point here. Why add anti-freeze to a cooling system that never freezes? So you do add the stuff only that you need which is a corrosion inhibitor. Since the corrosion inhibitor stops the problem (at a 2% concentration) from occuring then why not use metals in whatever way that pleases you? If you don't want to use aluminum then don't do it, but get off everyones back that does want to use it and quit telling people it is going to corrode their systems when it isn't going to happen.

I'm through with this subject for a while as it appears to be circular thinking expressed around here and I usually find that process to be annoying.

So does anyone KNOW what the hell is the hold up on the AC review? My personal opinion is that Sharka is holding up the show here as I see no benefit for SC one way or the other in a delay.

After reading through these last (useless) 100 posts or so, this is about the best anyone has said regarding the (off topic) issue.

Does AC Fluid, Zerex, antifreeze, <insert your favorite additive/fluid here> work? Yes, it should, unless the manufacturer is lying. Are some more efficient, or have different uses than others? Yes, that's why more than one option exists. There are a great couple of articles from Overclockers.com (ironically, written by Lee at SystemCooling) that should have been posted a looooong time ago, and covers all the major points. Part 1 covers aspects of water, and part 2 covers this thread's new focus, additives (click here if you want to read his conclusions).

To get back to this thread's original topic (the review that has yet to appear, stop trying to predict the future as you hope it will turn out, R1ck ), what exactly does it matter, now that some AC gear is getting a nice, modern performance review? If AC is just all about looks, then this review should focus on the reviewer's opinions and what they think. If AC is all about performance, then the review should have plenty of graphs comparing it to other systems/components. If AC is a combination of the two, then focus on both. One issue though: Performance is (or at least should be) a universal fact for its circumstances. Opinion is not a fact, and just represents what someone thinks.

A lot of people posting in this thread already have their opinions and preferences about brands and methods. For them, this review will just give them something more to discuss, likely another piece of shit to throw back and forth, hopefully getting more crap on others than themselves.

For others, who are actually trying to decide what to buy, this review might help steer them one way or another, based on the (good or bad) performance numbers and/or opinions about its looks. Let's just hope this review comes out soon, otherwise we'll have to start a new thread to actually mention the review.

 

[topcat989]

In my last system had 1 Cuplex XT, 2 Twinplex GPU, 1 Twinplex NB, 1 MIPS Mosfet, 2 RADS and an Aquatube, after 1 year with AC Fluid and AC Blue Dye, I had no slime or anything else in my blocks. I do not claim that AC is the best, I dont think there is a clear winner. I bought AC because there was not a clear winner and thus I picked AC because I liked its looks over the alternatives. Had there been a clear cut winner, I would have purchased it. To this day I do not belive there is a clear cut winner in H2O cooling, nor do I belive there will be one. It remains a matter of personal taste and because it does, I suggest every one put down their sling shots.

my kinda guy.

unfortunetly, the white guy and other trolls enjoy trolling a bit much for them to stop......

 

[topcat989]

....P.S. -- I find it interesting that this thread remained relatively civil until R1ck and TN started their religious preaching.

ummm, no. The "Aquatrolls" got in the first condencending, patronizing remarks in first, as usual. Read thread again.


PS. I note you said "relatively" civil

 

[Bbq]

my kinda guy.

unfortunetly, the white guy and other trolls enjoy trolling a bit much for them to stop......

Ignore the Aquatrolls and they usually go away.

 

[Leeum]

Ignore the Aquatrolls and they usually go away.

Yep

 

[Dark Prodigy]

In my last system had 1 Cuplex XT, 2 Twinplex GPU, 1 Twinplex NB, 1 MIPS Mosfet, 2 RADS and an Aquatube, after 1 year with AC Fluid and AC Blue Dye, I had no slime or anything else in my blocks. I do not claim that AC is the best, I dont think there is a clear winner. I bought AC because there was not a clear winner and thus I picked AC because I liked its looks over the alternatives. Had there been a clear cut winner, I would have purchased it. To this day I do not belive there is a clear cut winner in H2O cooling, nor do I belive there will be one. It remains a matter of personal taste and because it does, I suggest every one put down their sling shots.

Well said.... Even though I'm not privvy to the performance side of AC, I'm sure that the varying degrees of performance will be on par with just about every other high end watercooling company. And I personally use Danger Den at this point.

I will say that AC makes elegant watercooling parts and accessories and that's a major appeal to alot of people including myself. I'm thinking seriously about it for my next build. Its simply a matter of taste and preference. Discussing/arguing over a 1-4% +/- differential in performance, while can be fun and informative, is arbitrary and ultimately moot. Since such a small range of performance relavence won't cause your machine to overheat to any kind of catastrophic level.

I personally like to see variety for us enthusiasts...Its the same community but it lets people be different, an individual. In the end, the consumer always wins.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

In my last system had 1 Cuplex XT, 2 Twinplex GPU, 1 Twinplex NB, 1 MIPS Mosfet, 2 RADS and an Aquatube, after 1 year with AC Fluid and AC Blue Dye, I had no slime or anything else in my blocks. I do not claim that AC is the best, I dont think there is a clear winner. I bought AC because there was not a clear winner and thus I picked AC because I liked its looks over the alternatives. Had there been a clear cut winner, I would have purchased it. To this day I do not belive there is a clear cut winner in H2O cooling, nor do I belive there will be one. It remains a matter of personal taste and because it does, I suggest every one put down their sling shots.

Problem is it doesn't matter what is said, people find issues with AC products. I still think it is more do to a "can't/don't have" attitude.

 

[madmat]

KISS ASS = Keep It Simple Stupid And Stay Stupid.

So how did you expect us to keep this thread alive till the review came out?

The use of violence or crude words is the last resort for the incompetent man.

Using foul language eh? Tsk tsk...

Hello pot, this is the kettle calling, guess what...you're black.

Back on topic...

I would use a straight anti corrosion fluid if it was available locally AND didn't cost an arm and a leg. Running a 2% mixture would be beneficial in that it would give better temps over a 25% mix of antifreeze but sadly I don't see being able to purchase A-C fluid or anything like it in any local PC shops anytime soon.

Question: Does the A-C fluid give protection against flora & fauna?

 

[BioPort]

Question: Does the A-C fluid give protection against flora & fauna?

any liquid that can stop metals from corroding (i.e. anti-freeze) is probably poisonous enough to kill any living things inside your loop.

 

[thewhiteguy]

Question: Does the A-C fluid give protection against flora & fauna?

The flow rate in AC loops is so low that any life would kill itself from boredom.

 

[Leeum]

any liquid that can stop metals from corroding (i.e. anti-freeze) is probably poisonous enough to kill any living things inside your loop.

I've got a bottle here and on the back it has the hazardous substance sign (black cross in an orange square) Undearneath it has written "reizend" which translates to charmingly apparantly

Either way, it's not something you should go and pour down drains...

 

[phide]

So where the hell is that review?

 

[Erasmus354]

So where the hell is that review?

Maybe it is being uploaded on a "low flow" 14.4K modem

 

[Top Nurse]

I would use a straight anti corrosion fluid if it was available locally AND didn't cost an arm and a leg. Running a 2% mixture would be beneficial in that it would give better temps over a 25% mix of antifreeze but sadly I don't see being able to purchase A-C fluid or anything like it in any local PC shops anytime soon.

Question: Does the A-C fluid give protection against flora & fauna?

Just curious as to whether all your PC stuff is available locally? Didi you get anything via the mail or UPS? I live in Southern California where there are tons of places to get what I need, but sometimes I have to have stuff shipped in. I think Sharka or FrozenCPU can ship you anti-corrosives and get them in a day or two. If buy a 50 ml bottle of AC Fluid it will set you back about $15 with shipping and it will make 2.5 Liters of coolant. I think that is probably enough to last you a long time.

Anti-corrosives increase the alkalinity of the coolant which is detrimental to flora. It is also quite poisonous to biologicals and us as well.

 

[Bbq]

Lesson of the day: Don't drink anti-corrosion fluid. It might leave you with serious brain dama

 

[Top Nurse]

Talked to Wes a few moments ago and he thought it would have been up last week.

Perhaps they have decided to have Bio-Hazard or someone else run through it for a more comprehensive review.

 

[theseeker]

Talked to Wes a few moments ago and he thought it would have been up last week.

Perhaps they have decided to have Bio-Hazard or someone else run through it for a more comprehensive review.

TN, check your PM's. Please

 

[madmat]

Just curious as to whether all your PC stuff is available locally? Didi you get anything via the mail or UPS? I live in Southern California where there are tons of places to get what I need, but sometimes I have to have stuff shipped in. I think Sharka or FrozenCPU can ship you anti-corrosives and get them in a day or two. If buy a 50 ml bottle of AC Fluid it will set you back about $15 with shipping and it will make 2.5 Liters of coolant. I think that is probably enough to last you a long time.

Anti-corrosives increase the alkalinity of the coolant which is detrimental to flora. It is also quite poisonous to biologicals and us as well.

I can drive oh, I dunno, 10 miles to MicroCenter and get just about anything that DangerDen sells for the same price plus tax. That offsets shipping easily and since I don't have a CC nor PayPal account shopping online is a pita so I tend to go B&M every chance I can get.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

I can drive oh, I dunno, 10 miles to MicroCenter and get just about anything that DangerDen sells for the same price plus tax. That offsets shipping easily and since I don't have a CC nor PayPal account shopping online is a pita so I tend to go B&M every chance I can get.

I won't buy DangerCrap stuff just because they have yet to release without it being a copy of someone elses hard work.

 

[thewhiteguy]

I won't buy DangerCrap stuff just because they have yet to release without it being a copy of someone elses hard work.

They're not stealing any patented designs, so blame whoever should have filed a patent.

 

[CCUABIDExORxDIE]

I won't buy DangerCrap stuff just because they have yet to release without it being a copy of someone elses hard work.

who'd they steal the design for the maze4 gpu block from then?

 

[theseeker]

They're not stealing any patented designs, so blame whoever should have filed a patent.

It would be nice for once, if you could say something nice. I truly despise this flame war.
Oh, sorry, I forgot you dont speak Latin.

 

[madmat]

I won't buy DangerCrap stuff just because they have yet to release without it being a copy of someone elses hard work.

Funny, I don't remember seeing the TDX or RBX from another company nor the Maze 4 GPU block (as CCUABIDExORxDIE pointed out) so I fail to see who they're ripping off...

 

[theseeker]

Funny, I don't remember seeing the TDX or RBX from another company nor the Maze 4 GPU block (as CCUABIDExORxDIE pointed out) so I fail to see who they're ripping off...

Key word, Fail.