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Systemax Hellcat Evaluation @ [H] Consumer

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We bring you an article from Tim Roper that is a living example of why we have our Systems Evaluation program.

We put together a nearly identical system to our recent ABS Sniper M6 at Systemax. While the two machines are almost the exact same price and carry nearly the exact same hardware, the consumer experience is completely different.

As we’re known to say, “Fast is easily bought, but purchasing and ownership satisfaction can be elusive.” We’ll put that axiom into practice as we compare what two different OEMs can do with the same computer.
Click to expand...
The Hellcat is another example of a strongly performing machine beset on all sides by problems with the OEM. We’ve got great hardware that is poorly assembled and even more poorly supported... The real advantage of going with a competent OEM is the pre- and after-sale support. If that’s not there, then what are you paying for?
Click to expand...

Thanks for reading!
 
Wow. I'd love to see a statement from them to try and explain/excuse all of that. o_O
 
I would also like to see a response. To be honest, however, I'm not suprised based on the poor support I've had from TigerDirect in the past.
 
I thought this review was going to get interesting when I saw the words "Tiger Direct", you didn't let me down lol!

Now I wonder if anyone from that co' is going to be willing to comment on that review!
 
I though the review was great, well written and thorough. Tech support seems to kill an otherwise reputable company everytime.

Dang TD...I hope they learn from this.
 
Pkirk618 said:
I though the review was great, well written and thorough. Lack of Tech support seems to kill an otherwise reputable company everytime.

Dang TD...I hope they learn from this.
Click to expand...

fixed it for ya
 
Its unfortunate that some people in the 'tech support' world, just think that its a simple job. We call people like the one that RMA'd computer a PUNTER. They just kick every call to someone/something else.. They are the 'bad apples' of any phone support.

I currently am doing tech support for an ISP ('BeepBeep'). So, any tech that I read off of the reviews that doesn't at least 'TRY' to do something, makes me cringe.. Also the lack fo knowledge ticks me off..

The troubleshooting area is my favourite part, because it shows the effort a company puts forward in training people to fix issues.

And the damage to the case, ouch.
 
Wow. A full system RMA after so little investigation is a sure sign that the company puts little value on good tech support, or accountability. If this is normal practice by Systemax I don't know how they could possibly make any money. I assume this outsourced thid party, or was it in-house?

This review contained the worst tech support I have read about in quite some time, and can only be matched by my own horror story with HP and it's India-based outsourced foolishness that still gets my blood up every time I think about it.

Jim
 
I`d also love to see a response from the company about this awful state of affairs.

Do you contact them explaning what happened and ask for comments before posting the review. Not suggesting you change the review in any way, that wouldnt be fair, but to add a comment at the end giving their side of the story (good or bad) would be interesting.

Otherwise, it was the usual great review.

Nige.
 
I'm not surprised in the slightest by your overall experience. I quit working there in 1998 and it appears not much has changed since then. In a nutshell, sales representatives are trained to get the sale and then move on. Technical knowledge is measured in how quickly you could locate the bullet points in that month's catalog. Morale was always high on the sales floor due to tons of vendor toys and insanely stupid amounts of money in commission and spiffs ($20 cash for each copy of SoftRAM95 sold at $25). The customer service reps, while very nice people as individuals, were almost completely powerless to actually accomplish anything within a reasonable timeframe as they had nowhere to route complaints. This is actually a great model for a business, assuming that nothing ever goes wrong with any of your products.

When I moved from sales to the newly created in house tech support center it became clear that there was to be little to no effort made to get any training for techs nor even samples of the systems we were supporting. The most common troubleshooting step (because we didn't support ANYTHING but the computer in the original state/parts) was "FDISK, Format, reinstall.... doo dah, doo dah", which got really interesting when we had runs that didn't include the Windows 95 CD key.

The creation of that department was due to mounting complaints about the systems builder we were using (Aegis, in Ontario), namely that customers had to pay for international calls to deal with simple problems. There were many other complaints (batches of systems shipping with no processors and/or system memory yet still passing QA...), and TD eventually dropped them. Global Computers, TD's parent company, made the SystemMax name and facilities available for building.

I recall several of our systems getting positive reviews in PC World and Computer Shopper... this was due entirely to the fact that one of the techs was pulled off the phones to specifically build those machines. In contrast, our phone lines were continually swamped (12-18 techs, iirc) because we put out poorly configured and built systems. The sales floor was flooded with calls with people trying to call support. The support website was a simple collection of outdated drivers and links to boot disk creator utilities.

Several months later we started accepting system RMAs in house. While we had some good techs that would actually troubleshoot and resolve issues over the phone, others would simply issue an RMA at the drop of the hat. Unfortunately for the customer, they had to pay shipping back to us. We would frequently receive systems that didn't actually have any problems beyond "I have to unplug and plug back in my usb device to get it to work". We had no way to actually track which customer's system was in house at any given time until someone threw together a simple Access 97 database. When there was an actual hardware failure, it would take anywhere from 3 days to two weeks to get replacement parts as we often couldn't get approval to stock them.

I quit when management began requiring that phone technicians attempt to sell stuff at the end of calls... magazine subs that you'd sometimes get even if you declined, UPS and power strips, SoftRAM95...

Anyway, my opinion of the company hasn't changed in eight years since as the company has been run in this manner from its inception. High pressure sales to get the money in the door and torturous customer service policies to keep it there. While I don't have direct experience working for a similar company since then (went into software development) I can't imagine a CDW operating along those lines.
 
Brings to mind, "How many restaurants would you eat at if you could see their kitchen?"

Jim
 
What is it with [H] and bad video cards anyway.....

I think out of the 10-15 full system reviews I've read, at least 70 to 80 % are coming with bad video cards.

Me I think it's a concerted effort to force [H] into gettin sweaty and ripping apart computers and revealing that they are actually tech savy enough to do so. :D

My concern is, what about the computing newbs that just bought a computer from one of these places and has the mechanical aptitude of a rock and doesn't know the differance between a phillips head screwdriver and a vodka screwdriver. They are going to have to RMA the entire computer every time something goes kablooey (which as pointed out in this particular review would really really suck at 3 weeks for the return, not to mention the fact that they didn't fix the problem either).

(and yes I realize it probably boils down to bad luck)

At any rate, great review.
 
You dont get a second chance to make a first impression.

You can tell this book by it's insides......what a rat's nest. My 9 year old daughter could do a better job.

This company just plain stinks. You were too generous. The hardware ran well despite the genuine efforts of Systemax to screw it up. :eek:
I mean, you sent the whole deal back and essentially nothing but a driver update was done???? They didnt even try the game that was causing the problem????? wow.
 
Sniper_Merc said:
What is it with [H] and bad video cards anyway.....

I think out of the 10-15 full system reviews I've read, at least 70 to 80 % are coming with bad video cards.



My concern is, what about the computing newbs that just bought a computer from one of these places and has the mechanical aptitude of a rock and doesn't know the differance between a phillips head screwdriver and a vodka screwdriver. They are going to have to RMA the entire computer every time something goes kablooey (which as pointed out in this particular review would really really suck at 3 weeks for the return, not to mention the fact that they didn't fix the problem either).


At any rate, great review.
Click to expand...


Hi everyone! Thanks for reading.

As I mentioned in the article, we've lately had some bad luck getting systems that have had pretty serious issues right out of the box. Whether it's the Texas summer heat, bad luck, or the cosmos is out of whack, we can't say. But it isn't just the video cards...stay tuned to [H] Consumer for more info...
;)

Sniper_Merc, you're absolutely correct to ask how a newbie should be expected to fix some of the problems we've encountered. The answer is: they shouldn't. That's why technical support exists in the first place. There is absolutely no reason to RMA an entire system for a video problem without first performing proper diagnostics. In the case of the Hellcat, we even had two video cards on-hand to swap out. With proper direction from a phone tech, even a newbie can safely remove a video card (although that vodka screwdriver might still have come in handy).
 
nigel.pinder said:
I`d also love to see a response from the company about this awful state of affairs.

Do you contact them explaning what happened and ask for comments before posting the review. Not suggesting you change the review in any way, that wouldnt be fair, but to add a comment at the end giving their side of the story (good or bad) would be interesting.

Otherwise, it was the usual great review.

Nige.
Click to expand...

All OEM's are welcome to participate in our forums, whether they are part of our program or not.
 
Wow.....
I've worked in IT and support for years, and I have a migrane reading how poorly thier tech support functions. It's like when we deal with other tech vendors - our clients know that's where the issue is, so they call them and they immediately day "it's your other tech company not us" <click> . A very well written article - and very enlightening.
So, instead of spending even 5 minutes looking to see if there is a problem it's the RMA the system syndrome.
Where I work, we may not be the cheapest, or the biggest, but we have great support and we have a reputation as such - and we have loyal customers because of it. This article is the total opposite of my last call to BFG - 10 minutes and I had my RMA (since i did the trouble shooting ahead of time).
Plus, anytime TD, Globla, or SystemMax is mentioned.. I cringe.

Peace,
Tim
 
But it isn't just the video cards...stay tuned to [H] Consumer for more info...
Click to expand...

I can hardly wait.

This still sounds slightly better than the support we (IT at an University library) are getting from Toshiba at the moment.

It's a little sad that these companies don't realize that inadequate tech support is going to cost them money.
 
Doubled up ont he ram RMA, then sent out a single video card instead of two... WTF is that?

most amusing review ever. EVER!!!!!!

that tech who told you to RMA is a lazy ass. he should be fired. if you can build a computer in 1hour, testing parts should take you 2 or 3... noob <_<

and whats with the wonky airflow? those three fans are efectively stealing all of the air from whatever is in the front... (and me personally, i would have a case with that much airflow on my left with such ugly insides, to keep my hands from getting sweaty while (NOT) gaming :rolleyes: cause you didnt seem to have much luck...

So is TD gonna step up to the plate... or give you A) a canned response or B) Nadda.
 
We have sent the PR department at Systemax an email, but have yet to see a response or their presence on the forum. I offered to give them an official title as a representative of the company, but haven't received a reply. We'll see.
 
wow... great read, sad to see how poor their support is...
We have dell laptops here at work when i call tech support
I tell them whats broke and i have parts sent out that day, for next day service
 
This:

Tim.Roper said:
But it isn't just the video cards...stay tuned to [H] Consumer for more info...
Click to expand...

and this:

As you’ll read in the coming weeks, we’ve had a spate of defective systems
recently from several manufacturers - many of which have had to be sent
back to the OEM for repair and/or replacement.
Click to expand...

Points to at least 2-3 more reviews on systems that had major problems. Granted they
are fun to read (like watching a car wreck) and they are a great service to consumers but it
has to suck to be the reviewer getting all these problems.:(

Here's hoping this string of bad luck ends soon!
;)
 
This evaluation score is not really surprising to me. System Max builds the AOL PC's and used to sell their own brand of PC in Comp USA's under the System Max name.

I've worked on a number of them while working part time in the tech department there. I'd have to say the System Max's I have run into were not good machines. They are ok, but the build quality, case selection and software were all terrible. The power supply selection usually left much to be desired by being too weak for even a 9800XT as an aftermarket graphics card in one instance I can recall.
 
First off, I seriously dig [H] reviews. Whenever I see a new review posted, I stop what I'm doing and take time to read it through.

Now, as far as this review, I'm not surprised at all. Budget systems = budget build = budget quality = budget support = budget satisfaction. Be that as it may, there were some serious oversights that represent bad business practices and I wouldn't technically hold the support responsible. Usually poor business practices of that magnitude come from much higher in the chain of command. If the head is poor, the tail is poor.

Not saying that as individuals you can't take a little more pride in your work, but at the same time someone should be accountable for those types of mishaps. And it is the administrators responsibility to adhere to a sound, efficient, and practical business model, and from what I see, that wasn't it. Whoever the head of that division is should be 'looked into'.

Great review as usual.
 
Dark Prodigy said:
Now, as far as this review, I'm not surprised at all. Budget systems = budget build = budget quality = budget support = budget satisfaction. Be that as it may, there were some serious oversights that represent bad business practices and I wouldn't technically hold the support responsible. Usually poor business practices of that magnitude come from much higher in the chain of command. If the head is poor, the tail is poor.

Great review as usual.
Click to expand...

I don't know about you, but I'd hardly consider a $2300 system "budget." No, it's not top of the line, but there's some great hardware in there.

This is our first evaluation of a system from Systemax, so we can't speak to their overall business practices. I'd wager, however, that RMA'ing full systems without really trying to fix the problem over the phone first isn't part of their business model. ;)
 
Tim.Roper said:
I don't know about you, but I'd hardly consider a $2300 system "budget." No, it's not top of the line, but there's some great hardware in there.

This is our first evaluation of a system from Systemax, so we can't speak to their overall business practices. I'd wager, however, that RMA'ing full systems without really trying to fix the problem over the phone first isn't part of their business model. ;)
Click to expand...
My reply to his "budget" label was going to be similar. The system had parts that are nearly "top of the line."

I'm a car person and a computer person so I compare the Systemax build to an auto tuner wannabe who pays for all of the best parts, throws them all together without much knowlege of each one and how they might interact with the other. Then they're confused and surprised when something goes wrong.
 
Tim.Roper said:
I don't know about you, but I'd hardly consider a $2300 system "budget." No, it's not top of the line, but there's some great hardware in there.

This is our first evaluation of a system from Systemax, so we can't speak to their overall business practices. I'd wager, however, that RMA'ing full systems without really trying to fix the problem over the phone first isn't part of their business model. ;)
Click to expand...

One would hope not.
 
Dark Prodigy said:
First off, I seriously dig [H] reviews. Whenever I see a new review posted, I stop what I'm doing and take time to read it through.

Now, as far as this review, I'm not surprised at all. Budget systems = budget build = budget quality = budget support = budget satisfaction.
Click to expand...

Thanks for reading! I'm glad you like the articles.

Keep in mind that this machine cost just as much as our ABS, which was a great experience. The point was that some OEMs can pull off the low margins and still produce an exemplary experience - and some can't.
 
Given the similarily bad support provided in the reviews of the IbuyPower and PC club systems, I wonder if those two builders (Hah) are also connected with TigerDirect?
 
mentok1982 said:
Points to at least 2-3 more reviews on systems that had major problems. Granted they
are fun to read (like watching a car wreck) and they are a great service to consumers but it
has to suck to be the reviewer getting all these problems.:(

Here's hoping this string of bad luck ends soon!
;)
Click to expand...

Yeah, it can be a huge hassle. We can't just call up the company and pound our fist on the table and say that they need to get their shit together because we're a "reviewer." We have to do that and say we're a "consumer." As you can probably infer, it doesn't have the same effect with most folks.

So, we have to be patient. It's really messed up our publishing schedule over the last couple of months, which has been rough on everyone.
 
Mayakovski said:
Given the similarily bad support provided in the reviews of the IbuyPower and PC club systems, I wonder if those two builders (Hah) are also connected with TigerDirect?
Click to expand...

There's no evidence to support that at all. PC Club actually has its own retail front, so they're certainly not associated.
 
Very interesting read. Usually I just peek through the system evals... as I will never need to buy a prebuilt system... but this one I read all the way through. I would love to hear what systemax has to say.
 
DNA Doc said:
Thanks for reading! I'm glad you like the articles.

Keep in mind that this machine cost just as much as our ABS, which was a great experience. The point was that some OEMs can pull off the low margins and still produce an exemplary experience - and some can't.
Click to expand...


Ok, that makes sense and I see your point. A system can have the exact same parts and still be different. Build quality and support carry heavy weight as far as an overall experience goes.
 
Dark Prodigy said:
A system can have the exact same parts and still be different. Build quality and support carry heavy weight as far as an overall experience goes.
Click to expand...

Bingo.
 
Hey all,

Great writeup.

Glad I read it.

I've been struggling with a new PC from Tigerdirect for weeks, and after reading the article told 'em I'd had enough and wanted an RMA and refund.

I personally changed both video cards in the crossfire machine and still suffered from poor 3d quality. Sent it back to Systemax, where they changed the motherboard and one of the video cards (again?), and when they sent the machine back to me... It arrived stuffed; it wouldn't even post (checked all the connectors, reseated the video cards, memory, yada-yada-yada)

I wonder if the extra weight of these wonderous, but monster video cards are causing problems in shipping... I can't fault the build or the components. All looked great both times... but very poor experience, and very similar to the article.

For me... I'm staying away... back to building my next game machine I guess... too bad I wasted a month, and hours fooling with a 'no-hassle' build.

Karl
 
They would probably be to embarassed to come in the forums, when I saw the name systemax and tiger direct, I knew that it wouldn't turn out well though...
 
lol system max has a sponsor banner on the front page

why cant there be a company that uses reguler parts and just charge you around 100-200 bucks for buidling your computer ?

long ago before i came to these forums, and i didnt know how to build computers i would buy all the good quality componets from doing research online and take it to compusa and pay 100 bucks for them to assemble it for me and thats it !
 
If memory serves, both directron.com and monarchcomputer.com allow you to select components, case, peripherals, and warranty from their stocked parts. I think that would be along the lines of what your talking about...
 
Systemax = TigerDirect
I live within reach of TigerDirect's outlet in Naperville, IL.
If you walk in, you will quickly understand what this place is about.
First off, everything ships from here. -Everything-.
There's a room that you can see into from the store front that's about 10ftx50ft.
This is where the repairs happen. The RMA experience you've had here is not atypical - I've had friends take things in and have simple repairs take days. The support isn't a heck of a lot better when until you get in the store to be physically "up in their grill".
As far as the case.. they sell that case in the store. There are often several ( more than 10 ) of these cases simply piled up in the discount room (returns of things that broke). Most of them have the same flaws that have been described here.. broken drive bay doors.

So.. what's a person to do? Deal with Fry's. Their pricing is usually not far from Tiger's, and their returns/support/sales force is -SO- much better.
I haven't been to a TigerDirect in a few months. I hope I don't have to change that.
 
Uberdumm said:
.......Deal with Fry's. Their pricing is usually not far from Tiger's, and their returns/support/sales force is -SO- much better......
Click to expand...

Jesus, that's bad if you're saying Fry's has a lot better support/sales force :eek:

I'm guessing one or two things:

We will not hear a peep outta these guys, or the PR rep will come in here and say the usual BS of "gee sorry, isolated case, we have millions of happy customers, will do better, etc" and not mean a damn word of what he's saying. It's seems this business is set up from top to bottom to get your money and not give a shit as soon as it has your $$ in hand. Other businesses might falter or go through a bad spell, but enough company honchos/owner genuinly want to do a business where the customer is truly satisfied that they will get back on track, or at least try. Tiger sounds like they've been born and raised on the wrong side of the tracks, and don't plan on changing a thing as long as enough money flows their way.........
 
topcat989 said:
Jesus, that's bad if you're saying Fry's has a lot better support/sales force :eek:
Click to expand...

Yes, I'd have to agree. We wouldn't consider Fry's a viable alternative based on the current landscape. There are many other companies that will provide the same kind of options for a much better overall consumer experience.
 
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