Swiftech Apex Kit installed... Problems, problems, and more problems

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paintb4707

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 10, 2005
Messages
438
Well, this is the first WC setup I ever dealt with and I must say... for a kit the instructions sucked incredibley. They really werent descriptive enough so most of the time I was using my gut to figure things out. Anyways after hours of tinkering, I finally get the kit installed.

Pump > Radiator > CPU > Res > Pump is my loop order.

Anyways, I cleaned off my cpu with some dish detergent since I had no rubbing alcohol or acetone. Not sure how reliable it really is, but I cleaned it up pretty good for the most part. I put a dab of the ceramique in the middle and installed the block. I then jumped my psu with the classic paperclip, and ran it for about 10 mins to fill the loop.

Problems:

1) Im getting drips from my reservoir
2) Im getting drips from my cpu block
3) At one point, I was getting extremely rapid drips from my radiator. Also spilled out tons of coolant when I tilted my case over
4) I couldnt get past post because my temp for some reason was at 70c

So I pondered to myself and figured I hadnt applied the thermal paste good enough. I then once again uninstalled the block, cleaned both it and my cpu off and re-applied the thermal paste using the same dab-in-the-middle technique. Installed the block again, jumped my psu and re-filled the loop. After about ten mins, I plugged the psu back into my mobo, hit the power button only to find it power on for about 1 secodn then shut off. No matter how many times I tried it did the same thing. However, if I held the power button it would stay powered on but I would recieve no picture on my monitor.

As for the leaks, all I can say is I AM INCREDIBLEY happy I spent the extra few dollars to buy some non-conductive PC ICE as drips from my waterblock landed directly on my video card with no problems. I am also 100% positive all clamps are as tight as can be, so I have no fucking clue tbh why anything is leaking.

Oh and... frozencpu's water dye sucks. Dont use it :eek:

Any help would be greatly appreciated as this is very urgent.

edit: Whoops, feel free to move this to the WC section if needed.
 
I wish I could help you, but I dont know Water Cooling. So here is my help. Bump.
 
I just got mine same water system up and running and i have no leaks at all, I did not use the Res that came with it I used a T line instead, easier to mount and seems to work good. Im real leary of the the plactic Res i have heard of a few leaking so i just use a T like instead. I don't know why you have so many leaks but so far so good on mine.
 
well, for one thing, non-conductive fluid or not, you should not be powering on you system if things are dripping.

for another, did you check how well the barbs were threaded in to your various parts? they need to be screwed in reasonably tight to seal.

additionally, specifing WHERE you are getting drips coming from on your various parts helps us to help you.

you should also just have gone out and gotten some rubbing alcohol to clean parts with rather than simply using dish soap and water. the water you used for cleaning could have seeped into the areas of the chip and shorted out connections, meaning that it is possible that you have broken your CPU having already applied power to it.

10 minutes running the pump is nowhere near enough for a leak test. you should run your system for HOURS to leak test and ensure that you have bled out all air from the loop.

instructions included with watercooling hardware are not supposed to be all that detailed, as a user of this sort of hardware is supposed to have done some reading to familiarize themself with proper watercooling techniques and practices. if you have not read up on this, and don't know how you should be hooking things up, you shouldn't be doing it.
 
I also had leaking from my res, the solution is quite simple. Tighten the plastic barbs themselves down further. the res seems to be the worst, very sensitive if there is force on the barbs from a tighter turn in the tubing. I also invested in some pc ice, a worthwhile investment :-D I had the same power on only for a second issues....first it was because i used the spacers for socket 939 processors....but this assumed you are using the IHS. I removed mine, so the cpu die wasnt making any contact with the apogee :eek: after removing the spacers and cringing as i tightened each side down slowly, i got into the bios. 41c at idle??? tighten each side down a few turns, temp drops to 35...then 30....finally ending around 24. Try to tighten the screws on the apogee a bit more, until it will boot. As for the radiator, im not sure, those were pre-applied and glued from the factory in my kit. The clamps included are a pain. clamp them down as tight as you think tthey should be....then tighten it one more click. This last click will likely require both hands to apply the needed pressure, but really makes a superior seal.
 
I thought the instructions on the apex kit were very thorough. The only gripe I have about the kit, is the fill cap on the res doesn't seal properly. If the case gets tilted too much (during bleeding or moving the rig) it leaks ever so slightly. One of these days I should get a better o-ring, but I've only had to move my box once (when I moved into the new house) and I was careful and not a drop came out :p
 
Well that info they give you is anything but good they could have done it much better :) But I would never clean the CPU with soapy water, Alcohol is cheap and easy to get maybe a 1 Dollar CPU you mite get lucky and only pay 170 Bucks lol. But All my fittings were tested and retested to make sure of no leaks, Im still watching them it's my first full day with power to the system, but so far so good.
 
you did use O-Rings in all the res connections and cpu blocks, right? If not then thats your issue right there.
 
You should have done your homework much better before doing all of this. You maid so many mistakes doing this, any of which could be fatal to your parts. Using soapy water was just dumb... that should have been common since. Take a 10 minute time out and go buy some rubbing alchohol for a dollar.

Also, PC ICE or not, iif there were leaks, why in the hell did you power on your system? That stuff doesnt always work... expecially if you were using a die in your loop in addition to the PC ICE. Also, 10 minutes is nowhere near enough time... as Dashi said it takes a few hours to propely leak test and bleed the system of air. On your first WC attempt, a full 24 hours should have been your MINIMUN! Hell, even I, who has done many many WC setups over nearly two years now still give it a good 10-12 hours. Mount everyhing, cut hoses ect, then take out all hardware, leaving just the blocks inside an empty case. Let this go for atleast 6 hours with paper towels and such lining the case to help detect leaks that have dried. If you can go over 6 hours leak free, then put your hardware back in the PC, mount all blocks, and leaktest another 4-6 hours minimum with everything mounted before even applying power to the rest of your PC. Doing things this way I have never had a drip of water come close to any PC components.
 
DFI Daishi said:
well, for one thing, non-conductive fluid or not, you should not be powering on you system if things are dripping.

for another, did you check how well the barbs were threaded in to your various parts? they need to be screwed in reasonably tight to seal.

additionally, specifing WHERE you are getting drips coming from on your various parts helps us to help you.

you should also just have gone out and gotten some rubbing alcohol to clean parts with rather than simply using dish soap and water. the water you used for cleaning could have seeped into the areas of the chip and shorted out connections, meaning that it is possible that you have broken your CPU having already applied power to it.

10 minutes running the pump is nowhere near enough for a leak test. you should run your system for HOURS to leak test and ensure that you have bled out all air from the loop.

instructions included with watercooling hardware are not supposed to be all that detailed, as a user of this sort of hardware is supposed to have done some reading to familiarize themself with proper watercooling techniques and practices. if you have not read up on this, and don't know how you should be hooking things up, you shouldn't be doing it.
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1) I used absolutely NO water with the dish detergent. I simply dampenedd a coffee filter with a smidge of it and whiped my cpu good then dried it thouroughly.

2) I ran it for 10 minutes then shut it off because I found the leaks

3) I did weeks, nearly a month of homework so I was plenty prepared. Some of the smaller things however took me some time to figure out because the guide simply didnt mention them.

4) I did tighten the clamps as hard as I could with two hands. However, I might not have pushed the tubes far enough on the barbs so that may be my issue, I will try that. And YES, I did use O-Rings.

I appreciate the help but some of you seem defensive... insulting almost.
 
paintb4707 said:
1) I used absolutely NO water with the dish detergent. I simply dampenedd a coffee filter with a smidge of it and whiped my cpu good then dried it thouroughly.

2) I ran it for 10 minutes then shut it off because I found the leaks

3) I did weeks, nearly a month of homework so I was plenty prepared. Some of the smaller things however took me some time to figure out because the guide simply didnt mention them.

4) I did tighten the clamps as hard as I could with two hands. However, I might not have pushed the tubes far enough on the barbs so that may be my issue, I will try that. And YES, I did use O-Rings.

I appreciate the help but some of you seem defensive...insulting almost.
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1) Like thats any better? Everyone uses rubbing alchohol for a reason :rolleyes:

2) How long did you run the system outside of your PC? How long did you run it before powering on your PC?

3) Doesn't seem like it. You did to many things you shouldn't have. Perhaps more homework is in order.

4) With those clamps, fingers arent generally enough. You should tighten them as tight as you can, then go get a plyers and get another 1-2 clicks in. Also, how tight did you screw in the barbs. Maybe those were loose.

Also, no one here is trying to insult you. Its more the fact that by the sound of it you went into this way underresearched and unprepared, and made alot of stupid mistakes that simply should not have been made... and it sounds like there was alot of lazyness / lack of patience involved. No one is going to pat you on the back and say keep it up kiddo for that.
 
Viper87227 said:
1) Like thats any better? Everyone uses rubbing alchohol for a reason :rolleyes:

2) How long did you run the system outside of your PC? How long did you run it before powering on your PC?

3) Doesn't seem like it. You did to many things you shouldn't have. Perhaps more homework is in order.

4) With those clamps, fingers arent generally enough. You should tighten them as tight as you can, then go get a plyers and get another 1-2 clicks in. Also, how tight did you screw in the barbs. Maybe those were loose.
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If you would like to help me, please do. But I didnt come here looking for an attitude or a flame war. I never once snapped at anyone in this thread so I dont know where your attitude is coming from.

I tightened the barbs and clamps with my hands as hard as I could. I assumed that would be enough, but I will try using plyers. That could be one of my problems. I never heard of anyone actually needing them so I never thought of it.

edit: There was no lack of patience or laziness involved. I took my time with it. But you wouldnt know that, you only make assumptions.

All I asked for in this thread was help... if I made a mistake, then help me correct them. Dont insult me for it or talk in a degrading matter as if I came here acting like I knew everything.
 
trust me: i have yet to get defensive in this thread. in actual fact, i become offensive much more often than i become defensive, and i'm not usually too ambiguous about it.

viper's comment......that's putting a bit more of the spin on this that i was temped to use, but i've been making an effort to be just a little bit more civil of late.

figuring out the small stuff......okay fine. most everyone has to do that. it's a learning experience. you didn't initially say that it just took you a bit of time to work out the small stuff. i made my comment assuming that you were having problems working out some of the big stuff.

now, since you don't like some of what i said, how about you move on to supplying everyone with some of the info that i asked for so we can get into the meat of what is leaking and what is wrong and away from accusations.
 
paintb4707 said:
I tightened the barbs and clamps with my hands as hard as I could. I assumed that would be enough, but I will try using plyers. That could be one of my problems. I never heard of anyone actually needing them so I never thought of it.
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rule of thumb: a barb should be at least half a turn past hand tight.

did you also make sure that the O-rings were in and seated properly, prior to tightening the barbs?

if you run into problems with O-ring pinching, a bit of spit or soap helps to make sure that they slide, instead of getting caught and messing up.
 
paintb4707 said:
edit: There was no lack of patience or laziness involved. I took my time with it. But you wouldnt know that, you only make assumptions
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I didnt say you were, I said it SOUNDED like it, and all I have to go by was what you posted. Not going to the store to get rubbing alchohol, when you should have. Or the fact that, by the sound of it, you did not give the system any time to bleed the air out, and even though you had leaks you powered on your system anyways...

To me, that all seems to fall under lazy or impacient. If I am getting the story wong that is because you were unclear in your post with the exact steps you took in setting up your system... which is why I asked in my last post how long you bled the system for, and ran it outside your case, as well as inside your case before testing.

paintb4707 said:
If you would like to help me, please do. But I didnt come here looking for an attitude or a flame war. I never once snapped at anyone in this thread so I dont know where your attitude is coming from.

I tightened the barbs and clamps with my hands as hard as I could. I assumed that would be enough, but I will try using plyers. That could be one of my problems. I never heard of anyone actually needing them so I never thought of it.
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I am not trying to be hostile, flame, or anything of the sort, but based on the what I have seen so far I am seeing a rushed system with mistakes that should not have been made... I'm just trying to be firm so that it sets in a little better. It seems to have worked too, as you read my posts and followed the tips I gave, did you not? ;)

paintb4707 said:
All I asked for in this thread was help... if I made a mistake, then help me correct them. Dont insult me for it or talk in a degrading matter as if I came here acting like I knew everything.
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It would be much easer to help you if we knew more of what was going on. There seems to be alot of mis-communication going on. Answer all our questions and lets see if we can get to the root of things.
 
Viper87227 said:
I didnt say you were, I said it SOUNDED like it, and all I have to go by was what you posted. Not going to the store to get rubbing alchohol, when you should have. Or the fact that, by the sound of it, you did not give the system any time to bleed the air out, and even though you had leaks you powered on your system anyways...

To me, that all seems to fall under lazy or impacient. If I am getting the story wong that is because you were unclear in your post with the exact steps you took in setting up your system... which is why I asked in my last post how long you bled the system for, and ran it outside your case, as well as inside your case before testing.

I am not trying to be hostile, flame, or anything of the sort, but based on the what I have seen so far I am seeing a rushed system with mistakes that should not have been made... I'm just trying to be firm so that it sets in a little better. It seems to have worked too, as you read my posts and followed the tips I gave, did you not? ;)
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I mentioned it was too late to run out to a store (meaning everything was closed) but the box has been sitting around for about 2 weeks and I set my night aside specifically to work on it. :p

The O-Rings are fitted properly however.

Also.. about those plastic spacers that were included with the apogee. Could it be possible that those are keeping a gab between my cpu? Should I take them off? According to the manual they were needed.
 
paintb4707 said:
I mentioned it was too late to run out to a store (meaning everything was closed) but the box has been sitting around for about 2 weeks and I set my night aside specifically to work on it. :p

The O-Rings are fitted properly however.
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I would have still waited till the next day, not worth the risk of leaving a nasty film on your block. Sorta defeats the purpose of getting a superior cooling system if you are going to hinder its performance. Plus, that extra night would have been perfect time to fill, bleed, and leak test everything outside of your case.

You still havent answered how long you ran the system to bleed air and check for leaks before putting it in your case or powering up your PC.
 
paintb4707 said:
The O-Rings are fitted properly however.

Also.. about those plastic spacers that were included with the apogee. Could it be possible that those are keeping a gab between my cpu? Should I take them off? According to the manual they were needed.
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so the O-rings fit properly. good. now where is the water coming out of? what join in the system? hose into barb...barb into block......block housing into block base......crack in the housing.....where is it coming from?

i don't know about the spacers, they could account for the computer shutting off if the CPU is not making good contact with the block. i'm more worried about the leakage. i don't think that you should be trying to power on the system until you have everything sealed and ready to rock.

most non conductive fluids specify that you should shut down, fix the leak, and clean up prior to resuming opperation. they can dissolve various substances out of the air and become conductive if you just leave them there.
 
Viper87227 said:
I would have still waited till the next day, not worth the risk of leaving a nasty film on your block. Sorta defeats the purpose of getting a superior cooling system if you are going to hinder its performance. Plus, that extra night would have been perfect time to fill, bleed, and leak test everything outside of your case.

You still havent answered how long you ran the system to bleed air and check for leaks before putting it in your case or powering up your PC.
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Youre probably not going to believe me when I say I did weeks of research, but I only filled the loop for about 10 mins untill I saw all tubes were completely flowing and full with coolant. I never read anywhere that said specifically how long you had to wait to bleed it out, just that you need to do it.

The reservoir leak I cant figure out. Every now and then I see a small drip hanging from the bottom left corner of it. I dont see any drips from the barbs, but I did realize if you tilt the reservoir slightly downwards it leaks out the top left corner (no where near the fill cap) I think theres something wrong with the unit itself

What about the radiator though? I had rapid leaks DIRECTLY from the radiator outside my system. Would it matter that I have it mounted horizontally for temporary purposes? Its made for being mounted any which way, but Im not sure if it could be an issue.
 
paintb4707 said:
Youre probably not going to believe me when I say I did weeks of research, but I only filled the loop for about 10 mins untill I saw all tubes were completely flowing and full with coolant. I never read anywhere that said specifically how long you had to wait to bleed it out, just that you need to do it.
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Its not that I dont believe that you did weeks or research, it just seems like maybe you still could have read up a little more.

It is important to bleed the system for a while. Granted you are using a reservior and not a t-line, but its still important. As I said, more for leaks then for bleeding, let the system run 24 hours outside your case for your first WC setup.

Now then, what of the leaks. When you saw it leaking, what did you do? I've gone back and reread your posts, and I am getting the same picture. System was insid your case, leaked on your components, and you powered up the system anyways. Can I get a bit more info on what you did when it leaked? Did you clean all your components thourogly and make sure they were totally dry and had no residue before powing up your system. After you found leaks, did you try to fix them and then retest your loop for a while to see if it was still leaking, or did you just power on your PC knowing your loop was leaking?

Also, pretty much the same as Dashi said, where exactly is the leak coming from?
 
paintb4707 said:
What about the radiator though? I had rapid leaks DIRECTLY from the radiator outside my system. Would it matter that I have it mounted horizontally for temporary purposes? Its made for being mounted any which way, but Im not sure if it could be an issue.
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Where is it leaking from? The barbs or the unit itself? Did you puncture it installing fans? Take them off and run your fingers up and down the reservior and feel for puncutres.
 
Well believe it or not, it didnt start leaking till I actually powered on my system. I had my psu jumped for a good 10 minutes or so and I didnt notice anything. But I guess that makes sense when you say you need a 24 hour leak test. I didnt see leaks and say "oh well, Im just gonna power my system anyways". :p

Viper87227 said:
Where is it leaking from? The barbs or the unit itself? Did you puncture it installing fans? Take them off and run your fingers up and down the reservior and feel for puncutres.
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The unit itself. I did scratch it a bit, as you can see a brown mark. But its not even a hole.
 
paintb4707 said:
Well believe it or not, it didnt start leaking till I actually powered on my system. I had my psu jumped for a good 10 minutes or so and I didnt notice anything. But I guess that makes sense when you say you need a 24 hour leak test. I didnt see leaks and say "oh well, Im just gonna power my system anyways". :p
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Yeah, I think that was your biggest issue right there... you should have leak tested for much longer. I still recall a while back, I had a reservior that had a loose seal. Didn't even start leaking till about 3 hours into testing.

24 hours isn't always necessary, expecially as you gain experiance, but the fact that it was all new components and your first time, 24 hours would be best. Usually, as I said before, if I am adding just one new component (say a GPU block) I give it a good while, usually let it run overnight. If I am just adjusting hoses then I just give it an hour or so to make sure nothing came loose in the process.

paintb4707 said:
The unit itself. I did scratch it a bit, as you can see a brown mark. But its not even a hole.
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Pics? There could be a small hole and thats whats is leaking.

Here is my best reccomendation to you at this point. Take everything out of your case and go somewhere with it that you can get wet. Be it the bathtub, or outside if you live somewhere warm. Hook it all up, and run it. (BE CAREFUL TO KEEP YOUR POWER STUFF AWAY FROM WHATS GETTING WET) Wait for it to leak, and keep it running so that you can pin point exactly what it leaking where. You will waste some fluid in the process, but its better than risking your expensive hardware.
 
the swiftech micro res is made of several sheets of plastic bonded together. if the bonding is faulty, it can leak from any edge or corner of the res. you can drain it, dry it and fix it, or you can drain it and warrenty it.

as for the rad, it's really easy to put a hole in one of the flat tubes. i have done so with a careless screwdriver myself. alternately, it could be loose barbs or faulty manufacture. examine the rad closely outside of your system and pinpoint where exactly in the rad the coolant is leaking from. depending on you findings, it can once again be a warreny claim, fix it yourself, or if you punctured a tube by accident, a trip to the rad shop to get if fixed.
 
Its prob been said before. I had the same problem..my apogee and res leaking from the barb seals. I found out my barbs werent tight enough. I tightened then really well and refilled my loop. Problem solved.
 
Quick summary for leaks...

1.) Drain the system
2.) Remove the barbs
3.) Apply 2-3 layers of thread tape on the threads
4.) Reinstall barbs, with O-Rings in place, tighten with plyers or other applicable item

^^^ That's for the barbs, this will ensure your waterblocks, radiator, or resevoir aren't leaking.

Now, for leaks from the tubing.

1.) Buy worm/hose clamps, whatever they're called
2.) Slip tubing over barbs, if having troubles slipping tubing over barbs, use a dap of water on the barb, then continue to slide.
3.) Place worm clamps in the middle of the barb over the tubing.
4.) Tighten until the tubing squishes a little bit into the clamp, then tighten have a turn more for safety.

Yay. I pretty much do this almost everytime I re-do my watercooling loop, except for the first part, cause I usually already have that done.
 
Sorry I havent posted in awhile, I been a little busy. But anyways, I managed to eliminate all the leaks. The pliers worked out on the clamps, and one of the barbs wasnt tight enough on the apogee.

The pc was shutting off immediately untill I loosened the screws on the apogee (possibley too tight on the cpu?) But my computer now stays powered on, but it doesnt even post. I get no picture on my monitor. Im clueless :(
 
paintb4707 said:
Sorry I havent posted in awhile, I been a little busy. But anyways, I managed to eliminate all the leaks. The pliers worked out on the clamps, and one of the barbs wasnt tight enough on the apogee.

The pc was shutting off immediately untill I loosened the screws on the apogee (possibley too tight on the cpu?) But my computer now stays powered on, but it doesnt even post. I get no picture on my monitor. Im clueless :(
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When it leaked, did anything drip on your video card?
 
Viper87227 said:
When it leaked, did anything drip on your video card?
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Yes, it did unfortunately. But the vid card is still powering on. Shoudl I try taking it out and seeing if thats the problem?
 
paintb4707 said:
Yes, it did unfortunately. But the vid card is still powering on. Shoudl I try taking it out and seeing if thats the problem?
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:(. If your not getting video thats a bad sign. While your fluid may have been non-conductive, chances are your die was not. Got any other video cards you could try in the system?
 
Viper87227 said:
:(. If your not getting video thats a bad sign. While your fluid may have been non-conductive, chances are your die was not. Got any other video cards you could try in the system?
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I dont think the pc is posting at all though.
 
Viper87227 said:
:(. If your not getting video thats a bad sign. While your fluid may have been non-conductive, chances are your die was not. Got any other video cards you could try in the system?
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QFT, you should not have added dye to the system. Once you add something to non-conductive fluid it is no longer necessarily non-conductive.

Hopefully everything is alright. I would remove the card from the slot and see if anything leaked into the slot. http://www.madshrimps.be/printart.php?articID=363 If you read that article you will notice that even though the guy had a leak with non-conductive fluid he shut everything down, took everything out, and very carefully cleaned everything off. You dont want to leave residue on your cards or in your slots.
 
Legally....it's questionable since you voided the warranty...RMA'ing it is commiting fraud since you caused it to fail.

Morally it's just wrong.
 
madmat said:
Legally....it's questionable since you voided the warranty...RMA'ing it is commiting fraud since you caused it to fail.

Morally it's just wrong.
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How exactly did I void the warranty though? I mean its not like I tampered with it or even deliberately for that matter.
 
paintb4707 said:
How exactly did I void the warranty though? I mean its not like I tampered with it or even deliberately for that matter.
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its because it didnt happen in normal use. you are the one that put the water in the case. doesnt matte ri fyou did it on purpose. people send in laptops to my work with cracked lcds and get pissed because we wont fix it unless they pay for it. they broke the screen, whether they meant to or not. they broke it.

really dude, those big companies just use the rma process as a tax write off. so if youre screwing anyone, its uncle sam. but he takes enough money already. especially from my paycheck. lol

so just clean it up with rubbing alcohol and rma it.
 
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