Swapping the fan in my PCP&C PSU, any advice?

E

EnderW

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Sep 25, 2003
Messages
11,249
I'm putting my new system together and I'm gonna replace the Delta EFB0812EH in my PCP&C 510W PCI-E with a Panaflo M1A.

The case I'm using is an Antec P180. You can see the PSU is in the bottom of the case, in its own chamber.



The stock Delta fan is rated at 52 CFM.
My Panaflo M1A only puts out 32.1 CFM.
The fan you see in the bottom chamber of the P180 is a 120 x 120 x 38 mm Antec TriCool rated at 48 CFM on the Medium setting.

After reading this site, I feel that my setup should be more than adequate since he used 2 Panaflo L1A, which are only rated at 24 CFM and his temps actually went down.
My setup keeps the PSU isolated from hot air from the CPU and videocard, has a more powerful fan in the PSU itself, and a much more powerful fan pushing air into the back of the PSU. Also, my push fan is 120 mm instead of 80 mm, so not only does it push more air, but the airflow should encompass the entire PSU.

On the negative side, I will have the front HDD cage full with 4 x WD3200JD drives, but they run pretty cool.
And my 510W PCI-E model undoubtly runs somewhat hotter then the much older Turbo-Cool 425W Lee used.

Also, I was planning on using a couple of these to reduce fan vibration. Any reason I wouldn't want to put these in my PSU?

And any suggestions on how I can monitor temps?
 
Not sure if the dampeners will fit in with the fans in that situation. Panaflos sound great. You know you will be voiding any warrenty correct? I'd still do it though. You can get a fan controller to monitor fan speed/temps. I'm looking at the Aerogate 3 right now, $15 at SVC.com
 
I'd email PCP&C and ask if 32CFM is enough, personally. That's a pretty big reduction in CFM.
 
My friend ran one with a 34cfm Antec fan and did not seem to have any problems. Of course his system was not realy using it anywhere close to it's full potential. The more you load it up the hotter it will be.
 
perplex said:
make sure you got good fire exits in the building after fan replacement
Click to expand...
Instead of making sarcastic comments, try offering some real advice on how I could improve my plan.
 
Anything ever happen with this?

I'm currently experiencing stability issues and suspecting that my Antec Phantom 500 is not happy providing power for my system. The #s from the turbo cool 510 express/SLI are making it a very tempting buy, but I don't know if I can tolerate the noise.

Since my case is not as airflow-friendly as the P180, I was thinking about one of these: http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=261&products_id=2808 with a Nexus 120mm on top, and replacing the 80mm with a Nexus as well.
 
EnderW said:
Instead of making sarcastic comments, try offering some real advice on how I could improve my plan.
Click to expand...

hi, i'm genuinly sorry about that :( i must of been bored.

anyway, PC P&C are very reluctant to talk about fan replacement when you email them because their PSUs require LOTS of airflow. they're very inefficient compared to new PSU like seasonics and antec phantom to name two. they dont use deltas for an excuse to use their health insurance for getting "free" hearing aids. even if it seems like your PSU is doing ok, your cutting its life span :( . though i've heard of people putting in the L1A instead of M and seems to be going ok 1+ year. good luck whatever you do
 
i have the same psu and am in the same situation. i have a few ideas on how to quiet down this freight train.

the first idea was to keep the warranty and build a muffler like you can see here. the second idea was to get an 80mm to 120mm fan adaptor like this one, remove the stock 80mm fan, secure the adaptor and add a 120mm panaflo L1A (rated 68.9 CFM) pulling air out the 80mm hole. unfortunetely thats going to void the warranty.

currently im leaning towards just selling the unit and picking up a seasonic s12-600 and forgetting about it.
 
As much as I dislike the noise generated by the stock fan in the PCP&C's I'm not willing to sacrifice my warranty for the asthetics.

Wonderful, robust, well manufactured, excellent warrantied devices, but the fan is louder than I would like under load/temps.

Perhaps a better way of managing the sound would be with thermal control. Anyone know what's the sweet spot for their fan speeds ? Basically, what temps should I shoot for to keep the fan from spinning up?
 
Bullitt said:
As much as I dislike the noise generated by the stock fan in the PCP&C's I'm not willing to sacrifice my warranty for the asthetics....
Click to expand...
who said anything about asthetics? the issue is noise and how to reduce it.
 
I would recommend against swapping out the fan also. If it was safe to use a slower fan, don't you think PC Power & Cooling would have done it themselves?
 
tonyou said:
I would recommend against swapping out the fan also. If it was safe to use a slower fan, don't you think PC Power & Cooling would have done it themselves?
Click to expand...

exactly. you dont use a 50dB fan to make it sound bas ass :rolleyes:
 
Hint; you don't swap the fan if you want the PSU to live.
Unlike the crap out there, these things bleed heat. They're so hot because, surprise, the heat is getting out of the PSU. That's the whole point of the fan they used. The Antec 'TruePower' (pardon me while I fall over laughing) 380 here is at 65C internal and the exhaust is actually cooler than the PCP&C 510A4 on the other side of the room. Why? Because it's getting the heat out, which is the whole point.
If you want to quiet it down, what you should be doing first is ripping apart that crappy mounting setup and putting foam padding on all the contact points. Isolating a vibrating part does wonders for noise levels.
 
jwill said:
who said anything about asthetics? the issue is noise and how to reduce it.
Click to expand...

poor choice of words on my part. Replace with ergonomics
 
Wow, didn't realize the fan in the 510w was so loud. Reading this thread makes me
glad I chose the 425w instead.
 
my recommendation would be to do it exactly like this

http://www.leesspace.com/quiet_psu.htm

Conclusion:

I was quite pleased with the final results. The power supply is virtually silent, even in a quiet room. I have to get within a few feet of the rear of the computer to be able to hear it at all. Based on the before and after temperature readings, I’m guessing the actual airflow through the power supply is as good or better than it was with the stock fan.

Sound level....................45 dBA ...........< 35 dBA ...........-10 dBA

Amb. air........................20.1 C..............20.5 C.................same

Heatsink 1.....................22.3 C..............22.6 C.................same

Heatsink 2.....................42.2 C..............38.5 C................- 3.7 C

Exhaust.........................25.8 C..............27.0 C................+1.2 C

If you will be operating in relatively high ambient temperatures (above 30 C or 86 F) then I would recommend using Panaflo H1A fans instead of the L1As. They will be a little bit noisier (32 dBA instead of 21 dBA) but will deliver about 40% more airflow.
Click to expand...

but employ the Panaflo H1As in a push pull mentioned for the 510

Id also look into doing some dedicated PSU ductwork > http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=8450
consider you can hide the second fan in the duct ;)
(the longer the duct the more pressure loss\drag you will incur so keep them short)

and just to kill you with information overload :p

Air Flow Vs. Pressure Characteristics
Parallel & Series Operation
Stall of Axial Flow Fans

Basic Fan Laws
How to measure Airflow vs Pressure
How to Achieve Low Noise
Accoustic Noise
EMI
Introduction: Forced Convection Cooling
How to select the right fan or blower


boning up on Fans might be helpful as well
its not just the airflow that is important, but the static pressure
a supply with a greater resistance will benefit from a higher static pressure
 
Ice Czar said:
my recommendation would be to do it exactly like this

http://www.leesspace.com/quiet_psu.htm

but employ the Panaflo H1As in a push pull mentioned for the 510

Id also look into doing some dedicated PSU ductwork
Click to expand...
Why go to all the trouble of mounting a second 80mm fan on the back when I've got a 120mm fan 2 inches away?

And what kind of duct could I possible contruct in this case?
:confused:

I am considering using the H1A to replace the stock fan as opposed to the M1A, although there isn't a big difference between the two:

H1A
# SPEED: 2950 RPM
# AIR FLOW: 39.6 CFM
# NOISE: 32.0 dBA

M1A
# SPEED: 2450 RPM
# AIR FLOW: 32.1 CFM
# NOISE: 28.0 dBA
 
Is the fan in the Turbo-Cool thermostatically controlled?

I noticed mine is pretty much always noisy. That's why I ask.

I didn't do this in a Turbo-Cool, but in another PSU I had, I replaced the fans with similar CFM fans, but with built in thermostatic controls. It actually made all of the difference in the world and that PC DOES run 24/7 and never gets hot. It's only loud when it's bombarded with shit to do.

Just a random thought.
 
ColStripe said:
Better fix, grab a SeaSonic :)
Click to expand...
well, I've been thinking about it, but after looking at some reviews, the ATX cable looks a little short and I want more than 2 SATA power connections on each line, and I can't even add any of the clip on ones since the cables come all twisted



jonnyGURU said:
Is the fan in the Turbo-Cool thermostatically controlled?

I noticed mine is pretty much always noisy. That's why I ask.

I didn't do this in a Turbo-Cool, but in another PSU I had, I replaced the fans with similar CFM fans, but with built in thermostatic controls. It actually made all of the difference in the world and that PC DOES run 24/7 and never gets hot. It's only loud when it's bombarded with shit to do.

Just a random thought.
Click to expand...
Not sure, mine always seems to run about the same.
The air noise isn't bad, but it makes this irrating buzz sometimes.
 
Yeah. It's not a whoosh... but more of a hummmm....

I just don't like screwing with factory thermodynamics too much. They use the fans they use for a reason. Then again, PCP&C means EVERYTHING is over-built, so a slower, quieter fan may be harmless.

Just don't put a thermostatically controlled fan (fan speed controlled by air temperature) on a PSU that has thermostatic fan control (ambient temperature measure at PSU) because then the fan doesn't even kick on cold because the voltage is way to low to spin it. :D
 
jonnyGURU said:
Yeah. It's not a whoosh... but more of a hummmm....

I just don't like screwing with factory thermodynamics too much. They use the fans they use for a reason. Then again, PCP&C means EVERYTHING is over-built, so a slower, quieter fan may be harmless.

Just don't put a thermostatically controlled fan (fan speed controlled by air temperature) on a PSU that has thermostatic fan control (ambient temperature measure at PSU) because then the fan doesn't even kick on cold because the voltage is way to low to spin it. :D
Click to expand...
Well, the Panaflo fans don't do that as far as I know.
Again, the big thing that no one seems to be taking into account here is I have a 120mm fan blowing directly into and all over the PSU and the bottom chamber is sealed off from the rest of the computer, so the air should be ambient temperature.

Also, I know the Delta isn't the only fan that will work, 'cause they used to use a Nidec with similiar specs, but slightly quieter and less airflow.
 
JUST DO IT! :D

Actually, I'd do the quieter fans AND NOT use the 120MM. That's just me. :D
 
jonnyGURU said:
JUST DO IT! :D

Actually, I'd do the quieter fans AND NOT use the 120MM. That's just me. :D
Click to expand...
Well, I'm probably going to do it tomorrow or sometime next week.
I'm gonna try the M1A since I already have it before spending more money on the H1A.
 
EnderW said:
Why go to all the trouble of mounting a second 80mm fan on the back when I've got a 120mm fan 2 inches away?

And what kind of duct could I possible contruct in this case?
:confused:
Click to expand...
air and water are both fluids
water isnt very compressible but air is
thinking of an air passage as a liquid sometimes helps

consider basic hydraulics which apply to closed incompressible fluids
whatever pressure there is will be exerted equally on all the surface area
but part of that applies to an open system where the static pressure you get from the fan(s) come into play
by reducing the surface area (and total volume) your able to maintain a higher pressure

then consider airflow and friction, you incur drag, just like the difference between a 90 degree elbow in a water line an a gentle sweep

when you consider the "comparment" the PSU is in as a resevior and the PSU an outlet the static pressure you can maintain is largely what the "force" will be a large portion of the directional energy is wasted, whereas a channeled path will have both less friction, and little current deviation, and of course the closer the pump "read fan" is, the better the static pressure youll get, in the case of it being mounted ON the PSU thats the best, the "duct" is effectively "inside" the PSU

in breif the short more direct and less surface area you have the better results with whatever "fluid pumps" you choose to employ ;)

the extreme example is using a 80mm fan to move air through a shoebox, and then using the same fan to move air through your room
 
Ice Czar said:
air and water are both fluids
water isnt very compressible but air is
thinking of an air passage as a liquid sometimes helps

consider basic hydraulics which apply to closed incompressible fluids
whatever pressure there is will be exerted equally on all the surface area
but part of that applies to an open system where the static pressure you get from the fan(s) come into play
by reducing the surface area (and total volume) your able to maintain a higher pressure

then consider airflow and friction, you incur drag, just like the difference between a 90 degree elbow in a water line an a gentle sweep

when you consider the "comparment" the PSU is in as a resevior and the PSU an outlet the static pressure you can maintain is largely what the "force" will be a large portion of the directional energy is wasted, whereas a channeled path will have both less friction, and little current deviation, and of course the closer the pump "read fan" is, the better the static pressure youll get, in the case of it being mounted ON the PSU thats the best, the "duct" is effectively "inside" the PSU

in breif the short more direct and less surface area you have the better results with whatever "fluid pumps" you choose to employ ;)

the extreme example is using a 80mm fan to move air through a shoebox, and then using the same fan to move air through your room
Click to expand...
I think I'm beginning to get what you're saying, but one problem with putting a 80mm fan on the back is the wires don't come out at the corner like the old ones, but about 1/3 of the way over from the side

how much difference in temps do you think I'd see with two 80mm fans VS one 80mm and the 120mm?

and what do you think of making a little duct from the 120mm fan to the PSU?
like this:


 
I plan on replacing my turbo-cool 1Kw 's fan with the panaflo low speed fan with 1900rpm and 24cfm. It's simply too loud. Hopefully it can stand the heat.
 
Wow! an 8 month old thread!
24cfm seems a bit low if you ask me. Be a man and make it watercooled. :cool: :D
 
chop a 120mm hole in the top, swap in a nice quiet nexus, and in the back, an m1a.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top