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Swap CPU or rebuild?

A

Adamseye

n00b
Joined
May 2, 2009
Messages
23
Let me start with where I sit at this moment.

board ma790gpud4h
memory 4 gig ddr 2 1066 (8500)
cpu Kuma 7750 BE x2
cooler Zalman 92mm
gpu sapphire toxic 6850 1g
psu 500 watt
monitor 1600x1050

I can play BF3 but it isn't pretty unless I stay in the campaign. I am not looking to run ultra I just want to be competitive online and average 60-50fps.

My board can handle a phenom II 965 x4, and I know that would bump up my performance. I could get away with $200-$300 for the 965, more memory, and a bigger psu.

But I could easily build this instead for $450.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128514
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103996
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226189

My question is will I notice that much difference in battlefield 3 in game performance for the extra $150 $200?

Thanks for the help.
 
Noooo! back away from that CPU lol.

The 965 would be better performance for the money for sure. I would either just up your CPU (forego the ram and psu), go for the 8120 if you must go AMD, or build a 2500k system.

If you happen to have a MicroCenter nearby you can get a really good deal on any of these options:

AMD Bundles

and the Z68 motherboards have a $50 bundle when purchased with a 2500k which is $179.
 
K1tty said:
Noooo! back away from that CPU lol.

The 965 would be better performance for the money for sure. I would either just up your CPU (forego the ram and psu), go for the 8120 if you must go AMD, or build a 2500k system.
Click to expand...

FX 4100 no okay what I have been hearing. That leaves the 965 which I can pop on my board to really keep the cost down. Just not sure if my ddr2 is a bottle neck at all, and if my board will make the most of the cpu gpu combo.

I will look at the 2500k's, I have built a few AMD systems, never an Intel. I kinda like the bang for the buck factor.

Thanks for the reply!
 
Go with an Intel build no doubt. Can you answer these questions.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
6) Will you be overclocking?
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
 
A 965 is fine for running BF3 at 60fps with your setup. My CPU (Q6600@3.0Ghz) is ~ 20% slower than 965 isn't the bottleneck of the game running same graphics card at resolution of 1920x1200 on high, you're running at lower resolution so should get ~35% lower graphics load for the same frame rate which combined with 20% more CPU power should provided a balanced performance profile that should average around 50-60fps on high in the game.
 
@ Skillz

2) What's your budget? $150 for a new cpu if the rest of my gear can hang, $500-$700 cause I would like to keep my current gpu so a bit flexible
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? This is what I am wondering myself. I don't think I need to upgrade my board just yet, and a 965 can bring my current system up to run BF 3 @ 1600x1050 and get a steady 60fps(don't need max settings or ultra), which I don't get at all with my current setup. Is it my cpu, or ram that is limiting me? idk.
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? My gpu, sapphire 6850 1g toxic, my CM690, hdd's, and optical. My current psu which I don't mind replacing, http://reviews.cnet.com/power-supplies/rosewill-performance-series-rp500/1707-9987_7-31489624.html
6) Will you be overclocking? I have overclocked my current setup but the performance increase is minimal, not something I need to do.
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC? I would like it as soon as possible, I want to play. I am patience enough to wait to sort it out and make a practical purchase.
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? I like having the option for sli/cfx and a full 2 @ 16x would be nice to have. I'm not to sure how likely I am to run cfx/sli any time soon, but having that option is nice. Same thing with a raid setup, but I will probably never use one. Also if I am buying a new board I would like to go with the latest chipsets, only ones I know anything about are AMD. This is the AMD board I will most likely buy if I decide to go that route. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128514

@whitewater

That's what I was thinking/hoping to achieve! Based off benchmarks I new I had a major bottle neck outside my gpu, but most say BF3 is gpu taxing. So I wondered if my cpu was my weakness. I tried ocing to 3.1ghz everything was stable, temps 35 after 1 hour of 100% load in BF3, but I still was getting iffy frame rates.

Also do you think I need more ram?


Thanks for the help guys!
 
At this point, there really is no reason to go with AMD. Especially at your budget when a descent 1155 motherboard and a 2400, 2500 or 2500k will out game any processor from AMD for the money.

Since you aren't overclocking, I'd go with a 2400. If you just want piece of mind, go with the 2500. If you think you want to overclock (its extremely easy with unlocked multipliers) go with the 2500k.

You will also need a new PSU, no matter which build you go with.
 
Apparently some people over in the BF3 thread in the PC gaming subforum are noting that they saw a decrease in load times and stutter with 8GB of RAM or more. So a RAM upgrade would be prudent. With that said, your current system is using DDR2 RAM so upgrading to 8GB of RAM may end up costing you $80 to $90 give or take. Yeah might as well do a new build considering that $38 can get you 8GB of DDR3 RAM.

Motherboard wise, if you're looking for the latest Intel chipset, this mobo seems alright:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131837

RAM wise, I recommend this:
$38 - G.Skill Value Series F3-10600CL9D-8GBNT 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM

PSU wise, if you're planning on sticking with that single GPU, then go with this PSU:
$66 - SeaSonic M12II 520 Bronze 520W Modular PSU

If you want to do HD 6850 Crossfire in the future, then go with this PSU:
$90 - Corsair 650TX V2 650W PSU

If you're planning on doing SLI/Crossfire with significantly higher-end GPUs, then go with this PSU:
$105 - Corsair 750TX V2 750W PSU
 
First thank you all for the input! Let me explain where I am at in this game lol.

I do not think I would need to rebuild to get the performance I desire. I think a 965 and 4 more gigs would get my BF3 smoothed out nicely. That is around $200. From what I have been seeing, a 965 with a 6850 get me the performance I desire. This is a big plus for being a cheap, fast, easy upgrade option. Pop in ram, swap cpu, re thermal paste, pop on zalman done in 20 mins or less. This is preferable.

Or then again I can rebuild, and after looking around and comparing myself that would mean a 2500k build. What do you guys think about this combo? i5,board,ram,ssd

I am some what partial to Gigabyte motherboards, and would prefer the Board of my choice

I will be ending up going with a upgrade, and a i5. Thanks everyone for helping! Now the tough part of weeding down to a finalized order LMAO!

Also Do you think my Zalman 92 will keep the i5 cool? My current cpu hits 35 max when oced to 3.1 ghz
 
Adamseye said:
Or then again I can rebuild, and after looking around and comparing myself that would mean a 2500k build. What do you guys think about this combo? i5,board,ram,ssd
Click to expand...
Not a good combo for a few reasons:
- That RAM is rated at 1.65V when Intel recommends no more than 1.5V. Any higher than 1.5V and you risk damage to the CPU
- That SSD is of an older model that was plagued with issues. Not to mention it is from OCZ, who doesn't exactly have a good track record when it comes to customer support.
Adamseye said:
I am some what partial to Gigabyte motherboards, and would prefer the Board of my choice
Click to expand...
Not too many reviews of that mobo so I can't say whether or not it's a good mobo or not.
Adamseye said:
I will be ending up going with a upgrade, and a i5. Thanks everyone for helping! Now the tough part of weeding down to a finalized order LMAO!
Click to expand...
You should hold off on the build till the release of Intel's new Ivy Bridge CPUs and see what those CPUs bring to the table.
Adamseye said:
Also Do you think my Zalman 92 will keep the i5 cool? My current cpu hits 35 max when oced to 3.1 ghz
Click to expand...
It could but the problem is that it's probably not compatible with socket LGA 1155. If you need a new HSF, I highly recommend this:
$30 - Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus HSF for LGA 1366 and LGA 1156
 
@ Danny Bui

Here is what I came up with,
MotherBoard
CPU
Memory
ssd

$494 to my door.

I would like to get to my game ASAP, and would prefer not to wait for another gen of CPU. If I could play now it wouldn't be such an issue!
 
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Adamseye said:
@ Danny Bui

Here is what I came up with,
MotherBoard
CPU
Memory
ssd

$494 to my door.

I would like to get to my game ASAP, and would prefer not to wait for another gen of CPU. If I could play now it wouldn't be such an issue!
Click to expand...


I have that motherboard and it runs pretty sweet. I have had no problems with my asrock intel or amd boards.
 
Adamseye said:
@ Danny Bui

Here is what I came up with,
MotherBoard
CPU
Memory
ssd

$494 to my door.
Click to expand...

As I said earlier, that RAM is rated at 1.65V when Intel recommends no more than 1.5V. Any higher than 1.5V and you risk damage to the CPU. So unless you want to kill you CPU, go for this RAM instead:
$38 - G.Skill Value Series F3-10600CL9D-8GBNT 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM

As for the motherboard, I recommend this Asus mobo instead due to the longer warranty and slightly better quality:
$133 - Asus P8Z68-V LE Intel Z68 ATX Motherboard

As for the SSD, still not a good choice on account of it being OCZ and of being a slower model. I recommend this SSD instead:
$85 - Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SSD

Adamseye said:
Should I bother getting the SSD for smart response, or get say another 8 gigs of ram?
Click to expand...
Definitely the SSD first.
 
Adamseye said:
@ Skillz

@whitewater

That's what I was thinking/hoping to achieve! Based off benchmarks I new I had a major bottle neck outside my gpu, but most say BF3 is gpu taxing. So I wondered if my cpu was my weakness. I tried ocing to 3.1ghz everything was stable, temps 35 after 1 hour of 100% load in BF3, but I still was getting iffy frame rates.

Also do you think I need more ram?


Thanks for the help guys!
Click to expand...

Your current CPU is only a dual core and slightly older architecture, A 965 is about 2.6 times more powerful than current CPU at stock and 2.3 times more powerful than your oc'd CPU. So you're talking double your current frame rates at least...

More RAM is up to you, but it won't make that much difference - doubling your RAM might give 5% more performance....maybe, but nothing really noticeable, main feature of more RAM is slightly smoother running applications/games and quick alt-tabbing out of games. You can always see what performance is like at 4GB with new CPU and decide to upgrade to 6GB or 8GB if you feel you need it.
 
whitewater said:
Your current CPU is only a dual core and slightly older architecture, A 965 is about 2.6 times more powerful than current CPU at stock and 2.3 times more powerful than your oc'd CPU. So you're talking double your current frame rates at least...
Click to expand...

If only...
 
What are you suggesting slh28?

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/78?vs=102 shows 965 to be ~2.2-2.6 times more powerful depending on benchmark in multi threaded benches.

BF3 has a multi threaded architecture so the benchmark is very relevant in showing purely how much more processing power a 965 has compared to 7750...
 
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Danny's certainly right abotu the parts listed..

That said If your going the AMD route you would probably be better off buying from the FS/T forums then buying new. Especially a Phenom II as they are in abundance from people who have jumped to SB already.

For what you are doing.. Honestly I wouldnt go to SB for the cost differance. Atleast not if you are willing to buy used.. That is based on that a if-2500k is at minimum 150 bucks used where a 955be (more common then 965be) can be had for well under 100 bucks and even with a decent DDR3 board for 150ish. So if you then added 8gb of ram you would still be at 20 bucks less then an if2500k's new cost.

If you were playing resolutions above 1080 then I would lean towards the SB, but the cheaper Phenom II is not going to bottleneck you up through 1920x1200 with a 6850 (I know this one first hand).

I dont know what gains you will get in BF3 with a SSD, but from what I understand most games dont play better from an SSD, they just load faster.

Your PSU is for the msot part junk. All three of the ones danny linked above are very solid recomendations.
 
whitewater said:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/78?vs=102 shows 965 to be ~2.2-2.6 times more powerful depending on benchmark in multi threaded benches.
Click to expand...

Yeah but the 965 won't get twice as many fps in games. The relationship between CPU power and gaming performance is non linear.

BF3 is very GPU intensive and the 6850 GPU is probably more of a bottleneck. Switching to a 965 will definitely yield fps gains, but I doubt it will give twice the fps.
 
slh28 said:
Yeah but the 965 won't get twice as many fps in games. The relationship between CPU power and gaming performance is non linear.

BF3 is very GPU intensive and the 6850 GPU is probably more of a bottleneck. Switching to a 965 will definitely yield fps gains, but I doubt it will give twice the fps.
Click to expand...

Hard to say, there have been BF3 tests done that have shown that it can use upwards of 8 cores in MP, its probably the one game out there that runs better on a 8k BD then 2600k. Probably wouldn't be double the frames, but it would still be pretty fast in comparison.
 
slh28 said:
Yeah but the 965 won't get twice as many fps in games. The relationship between CPU power and gaming performance is non linear.

BF3 is very GPU intensive and the 6850 GPU is probably more of a bottleneck. Switching to a 965 will definitely yield fps gains, but I doubt it will give twice the fps.
Click to expand...


It depends on how much of a bottleneck the CPU is and the scalability of the threading code, BF3 is particularly efficient/scalable, but the level to which his CPU is bottlenecking the system is unknown atm. It's quite easy to test the effect of CPU cores to FPS in BF3, Just set the CPU affinity for the BF3 process to use 2 cores instead of 4 then measure the FPS difference.

Infact, I can test this very situation to measure the CPU scaling on my PC later and post the results rather than both of us speculate on it...
 
whitewater said:
It depends on how much of a bottleneck the CPU is and the scalability of the threading code, BF3 is particularly efficient/scalable, but the level to which his CPU is bottlenecking the system is unknown atm. It's quite easy to test the effect of CPU cores to FPS in BF3, Just set the CPU affinity for the BF3 process to use 2 cores instead of 4 then measure the FPS difference.

Infact, I can test this very situation to measure the CPU scaling on my PC later and post the results rather than both of us speculate on it...
Click to expand...

Interesting... might do this when I get home ;)
 
slh28 said:
BF3 is very GPU intensive and the 6850 GPU is probably more of a bottleneck. Switching to a 965 will definitely yield fps gains, but I doubt it will give twice the fps.
Click to expand...

Actually, it might in the case of BF3:
http://www.sweclockers.com/artikel/14650-prestandaanalys-battlefield-3/5#pagehead

Note how the X4 980 is more than double the FPS of the X2 560? And remember that this is an multiplayer benchmark, not those not really helpful single player BF3 benchmarks. With that said, this is the game at launch so drivers and game updates may have improved performance since then. Though that last BF3 patch lowered performance for me a little bit.

Bastage did raise a good point: If the OP is willing to buy used and can wait to find a good deal on used CPUs, the AMD Phenom II X4 CPU + additional DDR2 RAM aren't a bad idea after all. But if you're buying new or want to have more than 8GB of RAM, then I'm still recommending an Intel SB build.
 
This is what I achieve FPS wise with Q6600 @ 3.0Ghz, only a general guide for what average fps will be generally...

40-46 1920x1200 4 cores High settings
37-42 1920x1200 3 cores High settings
27-35 1920x1200 2 cores High settings

49-55 fps 1680x1050 4 cores High settings

965 is ~20% faster than what I have. so I think you can basically guarantee that CPU will be fine for 50-60fps.
 
Well after much debate, and changing my mind 700 million times I made an order last night. I probably could have saved a few bucks, but for under $200 to my door I got a x4965be, and 2x2gb sticks of 1066.

So I will be report back in a day or two whether or not my old pig can keep up with BF3 now.

I went this route for two reasons. I will be passing this rig on, so someone just inherited more better stuff lol. Secondly I am betting ( I am not the betting kind) I can get the performance I want out of this rig for now, allowing me more time to plan my rebuild, and for the next generation of crap to be released. Oh and I hate wasting OS license keys....

@ bastage Ordered before you posted, I like to save $$ lol.

My psu has not let me down esp for the price lol! I can honestly say junk or not it runs good. It also has some solid reviews, which is why I choose this one. I was going to order a new one with my order, but I was looking for a modular PSU suggestion or two!

Any suggestions on brands etc? I am looking to go to 750w minimal, modular (not full), and lights are whatever. But from what I seen, cost wise I might as well buy a 1200w and feel better about it in the morning!

Thanks again for all the help! Hopefully this gets my rig to where I want it, regardless I am still figuring out my next build.
 
Buying a 1200W and only using 500W is not a good idea. The PSU will never be within' it's efficiency range.

As for a solid modular PSU, search for the Corsair 750W or the Seasonic 750W modular versions, you can also try the Antec 750W modular PSU. Get which ever one is cheaper.
 
whitewater said:
It depends on how much of a bottleneck the CPU is and the scalability of the threading code, BF3 is particularly efficient/scalable, but the level to which his CPU is bottlenecking the system is unknown atm. It's quite easy to test the effect of CPU cores to FPS in BF3, Just set the CPU affinity for the BF3 process to use 2 cores instead of 4 then measure the FPS difference.

Infact, I can test this very situation to measure the CPU scaling on my PC later and post the results rather than both of us speculate on it...
Click to expand...

How can I report to you the level of bottle neck? cpu vs gpu usage, program etc? I am rather curious myself and would love to find out!

P.S. sorry double post but I missed a bunch while typing out my last one LOL!

@ Skills

Thanks! I am really looking forward to a neat case! Gonna order me one asap, I love neatness!

Go pro or enthusiasts? Enth Pro
 
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Usually until you hit the point where CPU is able to output more frames than the GPU is able to render you can't tell how much the CPU is bottlenecking you, only that it is a bottleneck....However BF3 does have some nice things that will quite clearly show the bottleneck - bring up the console and type:
Render.OverlayVisible 1
to bring up a nice graph, or
Render.DrawFPS 1
to tell you what FPS you're getting
 
Well the Enthusiasts version is semi modular and the Pro is fully modular. The pro also has 2 less amps on the 12v rail than the Enthusiasts does. So up to you on which one means the most to you.
 
whitewater said:
Usually until you hit the point where CPU is able to output more frames than the GPU is able to render you can't tell how much the CPU is bottlenecking you, only that it is a bottleneck.
Click to expand...
I have done the perfoverlay, and I kinda figured my gpu will only perform as well as my cpu will allow it? But I don't know what the numbers represent.
Skillz said:
Well the Enthusiasts version is semi modular and the Pro is fully modular. The pro also has 2 less amps on the 12v rail than the Enthusiasts does. So up to you on which one means the most to you.
Click to expand...
Yea the Pro also has a nicer fan and is cfx ready :)! Thanks for the help!


bf3 by Adams-Eye, on Flickr
 
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Your GPU is rendering frames on average at 61.12 FPS, with a min of 20 and max of 85.
Your CPU is averaging 38.4 FPS, with a min of 16.5 and a max of 187.

You will only receive a new frame on screen when the CPU and GPU are properly synced, but explaining the graph is a little complicated - essentially in modern game engines there are lots of ticks which have different update rates which update various parts of the game, a good example would be a physics simulation that run at fixed 30 FPS regardless of how fast other parts of the game run, but performing an update on the physics takes a significant amount of processing time compared to a frame where this update doesn't happen and as a consequence there is a lot of stuttering/variance in frame rate. This is only an example, but judging by the huge but consistent spikes it looks like that sort of thing is happening as on a 4 core machine you shouldn't see stuttering like that at all.
 
I just wanted to stop by and point out that I am very pleased with the 965! I am able to play on better then high settings now. I also noticed a lot less frame stutter, a bit faster load times, and a lot of fun.

I am starting to think this old pig has more might then I gave her credit for....


bf3fps by Adams-Eye, on Flickr
 
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