Student Suspended For CS Map

This is the most retarded thing I've ever heard.

I think Jon Stewart put it best when mocking the Nebraska Rep Lee Terry in regards to video games.

"And as I stand there, watching them play these violent games, helpless to do anything about it, I can't help but wonder where the system has failed."
 
OT but...

Draax said:
Polite and scared are two different things IMO.
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Can't be scared by something you can't see...and one thing you can't see are all the criminals hiding guns on them. I carry on my hip at work, and concealed off work. I just don't feel safe without a pistol anymore. So I'll retract my fisrt statement. I'm scared by all the criminals carrying guns, so who should be scared? You're scared by people carrying legally, I'm scared by those carrying illegally. Once you come up with a way to keep criminals from carrying, I'll stop too. :D
 
If there is one thing I cannot stand, it is school administrators. They are some of the dumbest supposedly smart people I have ever come in contact with. Thank god I've been done with high school for quite some time. I still work back at the school once in a while fixing computers, and I could tell story after story about how dumb administrators are. They are completely reactive to situations instead of having a plan and being proactive. Our high school has an open door policy where every single door in the school is wide open for any gunman to just waltz right in. No security on staff, no nothing. One day a convicted sex offender was found in the boys locker room, and our principal found the guy in there. He asked what he was doing, and the sex offender said he was just in the school checking it out to see how it changed since he had graduated. The principal said.. oh, ok, I'll take you and show you around. A couple minutes later the guy had to go to the bathroom, so the principal just let the guy go and walked off. He came back 10 minutes later and went in the bathroom, and the guy was in there with half his clothes off and some sort of weird fetish leather straps wrapped around his chest. Only then were the police called to escort the man away. This is only one of many stories I can share.. its sickening. Oh wait, why do school shootings continue to happen? Dumbass reactive administrators who have no security plan.
 
It's just the Virginia Tech factor in play. I had coworkers make maps of our office building (for Quake) a full decade ago, for Pete's sake. No murder rampages yet.
 
I keep thinking how many times me or my friends would have been kicked out of school or almost arrested after reading some of these stories about these schools. I wasn't even a bad kid. Hell half the school would have been expelled for CS maps alone.
 
Someone needs to make a CS map of a school council meeting room. God I hate dumb people with power.
 
UrielDagda said:
What really gets me is, the more paranoid society gets... the more the real tragedies seem to happen.. They seem to be great at stopping people who aren't doing anything while the ones that ultimately go berserk are never noticed! :confused:
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If a mal-adjusted teen who would have otherwise massacred his peers is sent to therapy or a psychiatric institution, that's not going to make the six o'clock news.
 
like others have said -- complete waste of time and energy. When I was in high school and counterstrike just came out -- my friends and I made maps of our school and played on them. Was fun as hell. Nothing bad ever happend.

Society today is retarded - everyone wants to pass the problem off to someone else or blame everyone but themselves.
 
Nick Farrell of the inq said it nicely:

"Sheesh, if the kid wasn't alienated before, he will be now. He has had his parents grass him up, his school calls him a criminal and the legal authorities are throwing the book at him for making a map."
 
JBavousett said:
OT but...



Can't be scared by something you can't see...and one thing you can't see are all the criminals hiding guns on them. I carry on my hip at work, and concealed off work. I just don't feel safe without a pistol anymore. So I'll retract my fisrt statement. I'm scared by all the criminals carrying guns, so who should be scared? You're scared by people carrying legally, I'm scared by those carrying illegally. Once you come up with a way to keep criminals from carrying, I'll stop too. :D
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It would seem to me that if someone doesn't feel safe without carrying a firearm in modern America (I assume), gun laws are the least of ones problems. Further more if the only reason people are polite to each other is because everyone is carrying firearms, then being polite is a facade and nothing more.
 
This is sheer stupidity. Who cares if he plays Counterstrike? For that matter, who cares if he plays any of the Steam-based games and decides to make maps for them?

There's nothing unlawful about it, and maybe his maps could have been put to good use by law enforcement for simulations, etc. Mapping isn't easy (I tried it before, using Worldcraft) and someone who can make a detailed map in that manner probably has better things to do with his life than to suddenly develop violent urges.

The kid hasn't done anything, and has become yet another sacrificial victim in the name of political correctness. I'm guessing that if he made a gay prostitution simulation (which the politically correct snobs would probably give him an award for creativity).

These politically correct school administrators are the same ones who turn a blind eye to real criminals dealing drugs on their own grounds, since they're afraid of them, but will more than happily call in a full police team to arrest a student who takes a simple Advil tablet for a headache. These same politically correct administrators will gladly overlook the gangsters who have real guns and knives on them (or in their book bags), yet will scream for a student's expulsion if he has a tiny plastic toothpick sword.

Sometimes you wonder why people are so tolerant of deviant behavior these days, and why so many of them end up destroying the good old-fashioned sense of morality...
 
It's mass hysteria/paranoia at its best...happens every single time here (the US) after a major tragic event.

We (my fraternity) have a CS map of our house and campus, and we play it during our rush LAN every term within the first week of school. The new guys love it since they're familiarizing themselves with the campus, and we loef it because hey, it gives us a chance to know our pledges. (DotA is popular at these too!).

I mean seriously, last I checked, you weren't supposed to kill innocents in CS. (Don't you lose points for taking out hostages as either side? I don't play CS much online.) It's just a tactical firefight between two sides, and the setting *happens* to be an educational institution. Blow it out yer ass, Jack & media, blow it out your ass.
 
I read the origional post this morning on their local site posted on slashdot and this link i was like WTF is this world comming to.

Just becasue some lad maps his school dosnet matter if he changes the skins to be like young schoolgirls it dosent mean hes going to actually do those things, its called fantasy its not real. this school and local law inforcement need to calm down a notch.

Christ i played postal 2, you can piss on schoolgirls set them on fire and smack their heads off with shovles not to mention tazer them till they wet them selves. Its sick and hilarious, have i gone out to re-enact this nope. god help me if i was at school now.

I can imagine this turning into a witch hunt aming at gamers, with all this bullshit flying around. people forget it isnt the games that casue this I'm sure a bad game of tetris would set these phsycopaths off let alone counterstrike.

how these people even have any sort of control over even a small part of this world is beyong be its prime examples of the stupid majority taking control of the world. get these school governers and law enforcement folk out and put in some people with IQs out of single figures
 
I'll never forget when I brought in and interrogated.

Spring of 1999, I was a Junior in high school. Along with a handful of others, I had been given a chance to take the Cisco Networking Academy at the local technical college. As part of the package, we were offered internships at various local companies. I was given the role of the MIS guy's assistant at a CNC machining shop. Got my own cubicle and EVERYTHING! Well, I had to share the cubicle with about two dozen old terminal crts, but hey, I wasn't complaining. Kevin, my "mentor", as it were, was a pretty cool, laid back guy. Had Shania Twain's "That Don't Impress Me Much" running 24 hours a day, convinced he would marry her. Everyone else at the plant was nice, even the president himself.

So, shortly after starting, I'm informed that I have to attend an ISO 9001 meeting to be in compliance working in the building. Kevin hands me a yellow legal pad and a pen and tells me to draw, scribble, or whatever it takes to get me through the meeting. We go, and over the 4-5 hours I attempt to remain awake. I doodle some, but write quite a bit more. Rambling jokes, blended with quotes from movies and british comedy, along with some mild commentary about how the meeting was going. This included a symposium on what might make the bored attendees more interested. Among other ideas, I pondered the spectacle of the speaker's mustache spontaneously combusting. Considering that I was getting an A in creative writing at the time, it wasn't anything out of the ordinary. At least, that was my opinion of it. Kevin occasionally looked over and kept stifling laughter. Anyway, the meeting finally ended, and I tossed the legal pad in a drawer and occasionally used it for various notes.

Apparently, one day some woman in the office was looking for something, had a feeling it would be in my cube, and decided to look through everything for it. She decided to read through my legal pad for whatever reason. Horrified at the darkness enscribed within, she gave it to the president of the company with her shock. The president then apparently turned this over to the principal of my school. Here was the key: I had written the ramblings in late February/early March of 1999. It was found and handed over in May, less than a month after Columbine. :eek:

Anyway, one day near the end of the year I'm called to the principal's office. No pressure, so off I go. In his office, also seated is my father. At first, I'm worried something's happened to my mother. Instead, I'm told to sit down, and asked if I wrote what was on the legal pad. I said yes. He then proceeded to read, in dead monotone and pace, the ramblings. Imagine a 90 year old math teacher reading off Denis Leary's stage monologue. Factor in, of course, the recent events of the time. Obviously, the remark about the speaker's mustache spontaneously combusting elicited looks of confused horror from the principal, and simply a raised eyebrow from my father. Afterwards, I was basically grilled as to why I would write such crazy things. My explanation that most of the things I had written were quotes from movies and TV shows, plus a great deal of dry wit due to being bored out of my mind didn't really satisfy his paranoid mind. I wasn't actually punished per se, but I was talked to about the writings as if I was some ticking time bomb waiting to turn the world upside down, and told I would be watched very closely for the rest of my high school career. :rolleyes:

This coming from the principal whose only daughter was one of the most delinquent, criminal, and rarely attending students at the school. Most of the students in the school would have preferred the principal from Ferris Bueller. :rolleyes:

Anyways, to sum up, I was treated like the next school shooter because I did the exact same thing I did in creative writing class. Ironically enough, many writings that I made similar to the above ended up in collections of school literature and in the school newspaper. :cool:

I swear to god, if I can afford it, I'll send my kids either to private school or home school them myself. :mad:
 
Aelfgeft said:
Since Jack Thompson blames video games for violence in schools(calling Counter-Strike a murder simulator), can we blame Jack Thompson for acts of terrorism by making all members of the faculty at this school paranoid? :rolleyes:
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Can we make a CS:S map of Jack Thompson's office?
 
crazy story, what it comes down to is paranoid, hyper-reactional parents in this new day of school mass murders who know nothing about mapping but just that there is 'simulated killing inside their simulated school'... i was in the mapping scene for a long time and people always made maps of their houses, rooms, school, jobs, etc. poor kid lol..
 
Does anyone know the name of this map or where i can download it, i kinda wanna see it.
 
Not_So_Hard said:
I have to wonder what the parents were told when the police showed up and said they wanted to search their son’s room and computer. Being a parent I would want to know in very explicit detail exactly why the police are here and exactly why they want to search my child’s room.
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Good question. I would think the parents said sure knowing they wouldn't find anything. From what I've read they haven't found anything either.
 
lockheed2266 said:
Does anyone know the name of this map or where i can download it, i kinda wanna see it.
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I can probibly try getting it for you :p, I can ask some of my friends who goes to that school(I don't because im homeschooled :D) to see if they have that map.
 
Ockie, k1pp3r,

Most building plans are a matter of public record because they must be inspected by a government inspector to meet code. You could probably go to the county or city court house of the city in which he lives and request his house plans (not by name but by address). It's possible that you could get them without any pretexting (lying) if the clerk on duty is bored. If he's young, he may even be happy to hear that a new map is being made for is most favorite 1337 game in the w0rld!

As far as the stupidity of school administrators is concerned:
It never ends. College administrators are only mildly more intelligent, but that intelligence is overcome by personal agendas (in the case of my colleges, sports and racist agendas).

Needless to say, I can tell you, almost to the day, when I decided that my kids were being home schooled. In 10th grade, I tried to run for Junior Vice President on a platform of getting the rules changed back to the more relaxed rules they used to be. They had, just that year, started to require tucked-in shirts and to confiscate customizable card games (baseball cards). (Later on, for one week after Columbine, they sent students home for wearing black. Not the brightest bunch of administrators.)

So what happens before the end of the day, after I put up my posters? The disciplinary principal calls me to his office. He knew me as a good student. (I didn't look like one so he obviously had checked up on me. No biggie. I like it when administrators pay attention to the facts.)

So I walk in there and he's friendly with me (something he wasn't known for) and asks me if I had "put up these posters" which he showed me. I say, "Sure. Is something wrong with them?" I don't remember him saying anything but "Let's go talk to Mr. <Prinicpal's Name>."

So we catch up to him. He's red as tomato. And he's twisted up his tie so tight that, I kid you not, the knot was the size of a pencil eraser. He echoes down the hall (even though I'm 2 feet from him) about how I'm inciting people to break the rules... and that's about when I stopped listening because I saw where this was heading. I'm sure I looked disappointed.

So about 5 minutes pass and I have no idea what he just said, so once he stops talking, because he's too angry to form a complete sentence, I ask, "So does this mean I don't get to run for Junior Vice President."

"No, I don't think so..."

So I wait there a few minutes and he says something about not wanting to see me right now "so get back to class."

So I tell my parents about it when I get home. Mind you, I have yet to receive any disciplinary action and that was only 3 hours into the school day. I think the disciplinary principal had been arguing my case for me.

The next day, in an extremely unusual act of standing up to school authorities (my parents had assumed that my complaints about their treatment of my friends were exaggerations), my dad dropped me off at school in order to "have a word" with my principal. I was praying that it would be in a public place so that my dad wouldn't get in a loud argument or anything. Thankfully, the principal was outside watching the front doors as buses and parents dropped off kids.

So I go inside as they start talking and I don't hear of any events through out the day. The following Monday, as I walk up to the lunch line, the principal stops me to apologize. Not knowing what he was doing I stood back, quite honestly afraid of the man. "Your father... explained to me that you didn't mean to come across the way I took your posters. I wanted to tell you that you can run, but don't put anything but the fact that your running on your posters." When I asked my dad what he had said later, he said, "Nothing much. Just that you didn't mean to come across the way you did."

From then on, that was the new rule for class elections. No campaigning on posters. The ironic thing is that the only reason I campaigned on my poster was because we never had election debates. That never changed either. Our SGA (student government association) was never more than a pretty stupid popularity contest for the pretty and stupid people, and I was hoping to change that.

To no one's surprise, they put me on the 10th grade ballot until 5th period (of 7 periods). That principal was determined to make sure I didn't win. The most ironic thing about it is that he changed enough that, by the time my youngest brother graduated, everybody at the school liked him, even the bad kids. Either he wised up, or, more likely, he just didn't care any more. Of course, as much scandal as had rocked that school by then, I'm not surprised at either.

Blah, blah, blah... I don't think I've told that story since the year it happened... 1996. Thanks for your eyes.

Point is, administrators of public schools don't get their jobs because they are good at what they do. They get their jobs because they know the right people. Case in point, that disciplinary principal who did his job right, especially in my case, was "let go" just before he got tenure.

My kids will be home schooled. And if I have anything to say about it, they'll be ready for college by 10th grade, though not actually in it. That's when I'll let them go to High School, if they prefer, for the social training. Needless to say, I'll be at the school every time the principal gives them Hell, unless they deserve it, but I'm not just taking some uneducated principal's word for it.
 
Optimus said:
Ockie, k1pp3r,

Most building plans are a matter of public record because they must be inspected by a government inspector to meet code. You could probably go to the county or city court house of the city in which he lives and request his house plans (not by name but by address). It's possible that you could get them without any pretexting (lying) if the clerk on duty is bored. If he's young, he may even be happy to hear that a new map is being made for is most favorite 1337 game in the w0rld!
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Yeah, but i don't play counter strike, so its kinda pointless for me lol. Maybe a HL2 DM, i started a map in that game (never finished it)
 
Optimus said:
Point is, administrators of public schools don't get their jobs because they are good at what they do. They get their jobs because they know the right people. Case in point, that disciplinary principal who did his job right, especially in my case, was "let go" just before he got tenure.
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Can someone PLEASE explain to me why the assistant/vice/second string principals in schools are usually very fair, understanding, hard working people, and the actual principals are usually worthless, arrogant douchebags? Honestly, your story touches a chord with me, because more than once my father ripped the principal a new asshole. When I was in 9th grade and 13 years old, a 17 year old senior a full foot taller than me that was inexplicably in the same class as me started pushing me around during class time while the teacher was out of the room for a minute. Diminutive and nerdy as I was, my father had taught me to fight back. I nearly toppled the guy shoving him back. He then came up and nailed me in the face a few times, though I can't remember how many. The teacher ran in, broke us up, and dragged us down to the asst. principal's office. They both could look at the two of us and add up the seriously imbalanced equation. The actual principal, however, wanted to put me on probationary status.

My father didn't like the sound of that. First he wrote a letter that he also sent to the school board, then he talked to him in person. Principal REALLY disliked me after that, but dropped the punishment. In retrospect, I think that had to do with his later relishing of the writings incident. The asst. principal came through the next year when another student, top athlete in the school and had a good 50 pounds of muscle on me, decided to headlock me. His eyes rattling around in his head after I slammed him up against the lockers was payment enough. Attitude around the school to me changed for the better after that.

Yup, private school or home school. If my kid really wants to go to high school with the other kids, their principal better watch their step.
 
Footnote, the 17-year-old senior stabbed his brother to death with a butcher knife three months after my fight with him. Principal saw no reason for me to be punished any differently. God knows what he'd do in a school shooting case.
 
Homeschooling your kids is fine as long as you get them out somewhere where they can have social interaction. You don't won't your kid to be a weirdo, do you?

I'm going to homeschool my kids and teach them how to be sarcastic and debate like a fucking animal. I'm going to raise kids like that guy from "Thank You for smoking". You know, the guy who can get any girl he wants, but he's on crack. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck Yeah. (the last four words were in Peter Griffins voice).
 
nvidiapwnsati said:
Anyways my sister says probibly the reason why they suspended him was because he looked like cho a bit.
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Hm, racial profile?

I grew up in Alief, and half the kids I went to church with went to Clemens (we were right on the county line). I always felt like there was some kind of wierd up tight mentality with Fort Bend.

An interesting piece of trivia: this school district is within the same congressional district that Tom Delay represented. Fun facts.
 
I made a map of my school for Tony Hawk Pro 2 on PSX. Granted, the area THPS2 wasn't large enough for my entire school. :D

I hear the FBI knocking on my door now.
 
When I was in high school, someone made a map of the campus as well. not because they were some unbalanced disaster waiting to hapen but because it was a generally accepted fact that the campus would make a really, really awesome CS map. It was shaped like a four walled donut, with a big interior courtyard broken up with little pavilions and all entrances sealed with roll down steel gates (yeah, very comforting place). I never got a chance to play, btu it looks like a lot of fun. Needless to say, it was never discussed outside of the local group of tech-saavy individuals. To see something like this sickens me. I'd still like to make a map of my college campus, since all the wide open spaces and towers with the lake in the middle would be a snipers paradise.

Oh, and:

hughJ said:
to have to start encrypting their drives if they want to keep any privacy they have left.
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I already do for just that reason. So does my brother. He's a big military history buff, so he routinely has pictures of guns up as his computer desktop. Luckily, most people can't recognize my files as 'dangerous', since they're all electrical diagrams.
 
thedude42 said:
Hm, racial profile?

I grew up in Alief, and half the kids I went to church with went to Clemens (we were right on the county line). I always felt like there was some kind of wierd up tight mentality with Fort Bend.

An interesting piece of trivia: this school district is within the same congressional district that Tom Delay represented. Fun facts.
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Well I meant my sister said that the reason why they probibly suspended him was probibly because he kind of looked like cho. Do I know you?
 
Axewerfer said:
I already do for just that reason. So does my brother. He's a big military history buff, so he routinely has pictures of guns up as his computer desktop. Luckily, most people can't recognize my files as 'dangerous', since they're all electrical diagrams.
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Well, what is wrong with pictures of guns and military history stuff on the computer? Actually, I don't see anything wrong with guns in general. My father go me my first shotgun when I turned 12 so I could go hunting with him. If someone tries to accuse you of something when you aren't an insane criminal with a record, I'd file a huge lawsuit.
 
UrielDagda said:
What really gets me is, the more paranoid society gets... the more the real tragedies seem to happen.. They seem to be great at stopping people who aren't doing anything while the ones that ultimately go berserk are never noticed! :confused:
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a shame but true
 
Remember at Colombine it ttok 4 Houers before the Police got in.

Latest shooting 2 1/2 houers.

So what has been said before: You are on your own when the drugged mindcontroled freak starts to shoot.

The police are mainly walking around for themselves not for you!
 
If anyone wants to have a riot video games should be it.

A riot where everyone made maps would fit this just fine.
 
and alot of the people whining about this were whining when VTech didn't do anything to stop Cho.

What is it with you people? Do you just like to complain or do you really feel that you have to blame someone for everything that happens?
 
CptFalcon said:
Well we could sue him, since you can sue anybody, for anything, at anytime we could sue him for endangering the learning process of our children, not granting them due process or arresting them under false pretenses. Why doesn't an average person do that so we can rid ourselves legally of Mr. Thompson. We could also sue Mr. Thompson because his name is also the name of a gun! He's promoting guns! :eek:

That came from the law class that I'm taking.
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Then you should know that it would be thrown out sense you are not nor do you represnt an actual victim of Jack Thompson. A person can not sue someone on behalf of another without that persons permission. Well you can but it would be thrown out probably even before the set court date.
 
Draax said:
It would seem to me that if someone doesn't feel safe without carrying a firearm in modern America (I assume), gun laws are the least of ones problems. Further more if the only reason people are polite to each other is because everyone is carrying firearms, then being polite is a facade and nothing more.
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Ride along with me for a few days...you'll see that any politeness in society is a facade when more than a few people are involved. I can't tell you how many felony warrants I've served where I've taken one or more guns from the suspect. You work in law enforcement long enough, you'll see it too. Hell, I quit and moved to a smaller town to work security just to get away from dealing with that, and two weeks ago, we had a felon arrested in the bank lobby with two 1911's in a butterfly holster in the small of his back. Most violent offenders carry weapons. That's just their nature. I'm quitting this job, and I'm going back to school. I won't carry on campus because my peace officer license expires at the end of the month, but I'll have a pistol locked in my trunk, and I'm getting a concealed carry license.

If there's on thing that VT should have taught us, it's that the Police cannot, BY LAW, prevent a crime. They can only respond after it's done. Aparently everyone from the school clinic to the campus police knew this guy was out of touch with reality...but unless they had a police officer stationed every 50 feet around that campus, the kid could not have been stopped before he started killing. If a few students, or that professor had been armed, they could have stopped him. Sure, it's an imperfect solution, but guns are here to stay. No one will ever get them all off the street, so restricting legal sales is not the answer. I'm all for requiring licensing and psychological testing for new gun owners...hell, I had to take a 6 hour psych test with a 3 day followup when I applied to the police academy. Some responsibilities should require evaluation before they are given.

Any way you look at it, it's a divided issue. People that are against private ownership think they are right, people that are for it think they are right. It's not something that will ever be settled, one group will always oppose or promote it. From MY experiences, it would do more good than harm to have more private citizens take personal defense into their own hands. Some shouldn't, but those that are physically and mentally able, I believe should with proper education and training.
 
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