Stores Use Database To Track And Decline Returns

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rgMekanic

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NBC News is reporting that major retailers are using a database ran by an analysis firm called "The Retail Equation" to track and deny returns. The database uses unknown thresholds to calculate weather or not a shopper is a risk, and subsequently denying them the ability to return a product to a store. Recently, a customer was flagged at a Best Buy attempting to return 3 phone cases he had purchased as gifts, and as informed he was banned from making any returns for 1 year, and was directed to request his report from The Retail Equation. The report only showed the 3 cell phone cases, but when he requested the ban to be lifted, he was declines, and an appeal to Best Buy was referred back to The Retail Equation.

I found it hard to believe that this was not illegal. I did a little digging and found a list of return and refund laws by state. I must say it's still a little shady in my opinion, and just another reason to search out retailers with good customer service practices.

Just over 1 percent of all returns are likely fraudulent, according to estimates from a 2017 survey of retailers by the National Retail Federation - but that's a large enough number that stores now scan your driver's license when you want to make a return, in order to look up your transaction history and see whether you should be allowed to make the return.
 
"good customer service practices" include policies that prevent scumbags from driving up the prices that honest customers pay.
And that includes scumbags that "buy" a TV for their SB party and return it the day after.
 
How can they do this unless they notify you upon purchase that the items you are purchasing can not be returned?
 
I almost bought a TV at Best Buy until I read their 15 day return policy on TVs. I ordered the same one at WalMart for $5 more, and had to wait a few days for it to come in but it was worth it not having to worry about dealing with the OEM if the thing died in three weeks.
 
I don't have a problem with this.

I remember working at Wal-Mart about 16 years ago. Someone returned a PS2. It was brand new, except one of the controllers seemed to be excessively filthy for being a brand new system. More like they bought it, swapped out their dead controller, then returned the console.

This type of crap is why computer hardware companies are tight with their returns, which makes things more difficult for people with genuine issues.
 
This doesn't punish the fraud when it happens. That's a fundamental problem imo. And as the OP illustrates it has the power to punish legit customers.
 
People are scumbags. Some companies had really good return policies but people take advantage to scam the companies so now we can't have nice things. Costco had a really good electronic return policy, something like 2 years or something like that. Not anymore. LLBean no long has the unlimited returns policy because people wear their boots for 10 years and then go get a new one.
 
I can attest that even before this new background check program, best buy has made me very uncomfortable returning items, and even accused me of stealing in an unrelated incident.

About a decade ago I was shopping for a quality spare monitor that could be used for gaming and photo/video work if necesary. In the course of 3 months I ended up buying and returning about 3 different monitors. Remember this was back when monitors cost a sht ton for anything that wasn't straight up tn/1080p. By the time I had returned the last monitor they nearly didn't even let me bring it back. I ended up just swallowing my frugal pride and buying a 30" dell despite the poor response time as it wasn't really going to matter for my needs.

A year later after I god my taxes back I took about 2 grand cash out of the bank to go buy a new television. I had shopped in Costco and saw an amazing Panasonic 3dhdtv Plasma wonder at a really good price and decided to go over to bestbuy to atleast shop around. At Bestbuy I was looking at a Samsung that was a little more expensive but a little bit larger and since I had the cash in my pocket I was going to make a decision right there on the spot whether or not to drop 2 grand in their store. I decided to walk around and think things over, and made my way to the pc hardware/component section. In one of the isles perpendicular to their pc monitors I found just a few mouse pads and wanted to see how one of them felt so I picked up the tub it was in and tried putting my finger inside to feel the texture of the pad. I was a competetive gamer at the time on 3 different teams and these types of trivial details meant the world to me at the time. I felt the hand of an older man in a yellow security shirt grab me by the wrist and on the spot accuse me of shoplifting. Mind you I was wearing a hoodie and jeans, being a musician and computer dude at the time, and realized that he was profiling me. He took the mouse pad from me (which probably cost about 10-20$ at most) and asked me why I was destroying products in their store. I started to tell him why I needed to know what the surface felt like and I could tell he just thought I was making the story up. I was so furious I just left and ended up getting the Panasonic from Costco that I still have today and use regularly. It still has the inkiest blacks and most vivid colors for watching movies in the dark, and doubles as my large screen gaming monitor since it literally has no response time lag (feels like a crt).

Needless to say I stopped shopping at bestbuy after that, and never ever looked back. While some policies can help a store from losing a small amount of money in the interim, burning a bridge with a customer could cost you tens of thousands of dollars over a 10 year period, and that customer will never come back once torched.

I look at this new policy as a last dying breath in an industry doomed to bankruptcy and liquidation. Let it all burn, I enjoy the experience I get from shopping online just fine, and don't need some fat, sweaty, middle aged asshole calling me a shoplifter or criminal just because I love pc hardware.
 
rudedog said:
How can they do this unless they notify you upon purchase that the items you are purchasing can not be returned?
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Store returns are not a right and even if you see some people's returns being accepted and your own declined, unless you can show some kind of prejudicial treatment, racial or gender or age or religion based, then it's just a business decision and not illegal.

And store Policy isn't a contract, it's not an agreement, it's a notification of what it is, policy. Nothing says policy always has to be followed.
 
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I think this is on the wrong side of the problem trying to be cured.

Deny them the ability to purchase the product if they cannot return it. Denying purchase is perfectly legal, as far as I know.
 
lcpiper said:
Store returns are not a right and even if you see some people's returns being accepted and your own declined, unless you can show some kind of prejudicial treatment, racial or gender or age or religion based, then it's just a business decision and not illegal.
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It's definitely not a right, but if you buy something when the policy allows for returns, and then are denied the ability to return that would fall under fraud.
 
Home Depot, Target, and Best Buy have been using this system for at least 16+ years. I used to work it for the first two, and my girlfriend and her sister worked at Best Buy years later with the same return system.

Did none of you guys catch it's people returning without the receipt/any way to verify how it was paid for?

Target and Home Depot. I worked returns for both of them.

The only way that they would deny returns is if someone returned over an allotted amount without being able to show they purchased it.

If you didn't have the card it was purchased on or the receipt they could allow you to do a receiptless return. It's for the rare case that you paid cash for something or no longer had the card -- it's not every return.You get the lowest sale price from either the last 90 or 180 days, most people dug out their cards when they found that out.

Guy hit the threshold and is upset about it? Why not have them scan your card to look up the receipt that way?

Robble Robble Robble just works better I guess.

For the record I still fucking hate Target so I can't believe I'm defending them.
 
Gigus Fire said:
It's definitely not a right, but if you buy something when the policy allows for returns, and then are denied the ability to return that would fall under fraud.
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No it doesn't.

Not if they can show why they didn't follow their policy.

Now a service agreement is another thing entirely, but policy is how a store defines normal practices under normal conditions. As soon as conditions change, policy is up for grabs.


EDITED: I know you may already be replying but I am reading to see if I can find something definitive one way or the other and I must acknowledge something I just came acrossed and should have already thought of. Not all states have the same laws regarding these things. Therefore I'll have to admit that in some states you may actually be correct and I need to allow for that.

I hope I do find something more definitive one way or the other, if not, perhaps you will.

EDITED Again: OK, here is what I am finding;

https://uniformcommercialcode.uslegal.com/articles-of-the-ucc/

This is where you start;
The Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) is the result of an effort to harmonize the law of sales and other commercial transactions in all 50 states within the United States of America. The UCC is the longest and most elaborate of the uniform acts. The Code has been a long-term, joint project of the National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws (NCCUSL) and the American Law Institute (ALI).

The Code, as the product of private organizations, is not itself law, but a recommendation of a set of laws that should be adopted by the states. Once enacted by a state, the UCC is codified into the state’s code of statutes. A state may adopt the UCC verbatim as written by ALI and NCCUSL, or a state may adopt the UCC with specific changes.
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So at the Federal Law level, it's not law at all, it's something the Federal Government is recommending in an effort to provide some standardization of the laws between the States. So it really does come down to each State as they are not required to rely on the UCC or can modify it, and there can be real differences.

So at this point, the issue of whether or not a store violating it's own return policy becoming a fraud case is dependent on your State. I don't know about you, but I have no desire to pursue this to such a degree. I think I would rather just relent and say that you may be correct.
 
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Gasaraki_ said:
People are scumbags. Some companies had really good return policies but people take advantage to scam the companies so now we can't have nice things. Costco had a really good electronic return policy, something like 2 years or something like that. Not anymore. LLBean no long has the unlimited returns policy because people wear their boots for 10 years and then go get a new one.
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Same thing with REI. People were returning old worn out crap. They finally changed it from lifetime return to 1 year
 
Gasaraki_ said:
Costco had a really good electronic return policy, something like 2 years or something like that. Not anymore.
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Yep. I had a co-worker that used to brag about "Costco's free TV upgrades" - every year he'd return his old plasma, turn around and walk out with the latest model. Apparently that was pretty damn common. People would do the same thing with PCs, laptops, appliances - return their used garbage years later, turn around and get the newest.
 
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Krazy925 said:
Home Depot, Target, and Best Buy have been using this system for at least 16+ years. I used to work it for the first two, and my girlfriend and her sister worked at Best Buy years later with the same return system.

Did none of you guys catch it's people returning without the receipt/any way to verify how it was paid for?

Target and Home Depot. I worked returns for both of them.

The only way that they would deny returns is if someone returned over an allotted amount without being able to show they purchased it.

If you didn't have the card it was purchased on or the receipt they could allow you to do a receiptless return. It's for the rare case that you paid cash for something or no longer had the card -- it's not every return.You get the lowest sale price from either the last 90 or 180 days, most people dug out their cards when they found that out.

Guy hit the threshold and is upset about it? Why not have them scan your card to look up the receipt that way?

Robble Robble Robble just works better I guess.

For the record I still fucking hate Target so I can't believe I'm defending them.
Click to expand...

Telling people how things are isn't defending them.
 
lcpiper said:
And store Policy isn't a contract, it's not an agreement, it's a notification of what it is, policy. Nothing says policy always has to be followed.
Click to expand...

Oh no? Are you sure? Buying a soda from a soda machine is a contract. Just sayin'.
 
Thought this was common knowledge. They've been in use for many years (10?).

About 5 years ago I was doing some work that required I buy a lot of miscellaneous stuff from Home Depot at separate visits. When you do these larger projects, you often have to return a lot too. I was flagged and forwarded to The Retail Equation for some reason. The Home Depot manager on duty treated me like I was some criminal trying to scam them (with valid receipts?). See, the problem is, TRE (at the time, not sure about now) only has the returns data and not the purchase data for cash or tender that isn't tied to your name. This creates a situation where you could spend thousands in a store and be banned for returning a hundred dollars worth of goods because their algorithm sees more returns than it sees purchases. It's absolutely stupid and I pointed it out to them at the time.

It's a flawed system. As with this person, they're supposed to warn you and proceed as normal for that transaction (any future, they will reject). Just be sure to reciprocate the ban and not shop there until it's lifted - let them know. With my story, Lowe's got all of their business from there on out (besides the fact it's simply a better more organized store). I still avoid Home Depot.

Fun fact: If you're ever banned, just have someone else return the items for you. The ban is for your ID and not the transaction.
 
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Being able to return is the only boon I see for retail. Its a lot easier if I buy a TV from bestbuy with the ability to return it. Its very difficult to know if the TV is a good fit till you bring it home set it up and watch it.
If we can't return these items, theres zero reason to buy from a retail store.

Computer monitors are even worse. Cause you have to deal with dead pixels, backlight bleed, etc. Thats why when I bought my monitor off newegg. I bought 3 to up my chances of getting a good one. And that's what I did, and returned the other 2.

Now mousepads, etc are fine buying from a retail store.
 
lcpiper said:
Telling people how things are isn't defending them.
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The system is incredibly easy to game furthermore. Just use your wife/father/mother/brothers ID.

I just hate target so much it’s hard to say anything positive. That place is like getting the news your dog died daily. Tequila helps though.
 
oldmanbal said:
Needless to say I stopped shopping at bestbuy after that, and never ever looked back. While some policies can help a store from losing a small amount of money in the interim, burning a bridge with a customer could cost you tens of thousands of dollars over a 10 year period, and that customer will never come back once torched.
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Treat someone like a criminal and they won't come back. Accuse them of stealing, etc.. It's bad service, and they really need to train their loss prevention people to not be a wanna be cop with a power issue. I won't shop at a couple places due to that. It doesn't matter to their bottom line. They lose out on a couple customers a year, which is no big deal. But, we also don't recommend those places. It still doesn't make a difference, but they are still losing potential sales. :/

Tracking returns should be done. But, it should also be up to the person and not just left to a "Sorry, the system said no". If it's some granny returning yarn that was the wrong shade, but she had already returned a couple other things (old people return a ton of stuff), I think an exception could be made. Of course, then you get into profiling. Old lady vs. legit short Mexican with a tear tattoo that wants to return a Hello Kitty clock because it doesn't work...
 
Ur_Mom said:
Treat someone like a criminal and they won't come back. Accuse them of stealing, etc.. It's bad service, and they really need to train their loss prevention people to not be a wanna be cop with a power issue. I won't shop at a couple places due to that. It doesn't matter to their bottom line. They lose out on a couple customers a year, which is no big deal. But, we also don't recommend those places. It still doesn't make a difference, but they are still losing potential sales. :/

Tracking returns should be done. But, it should also be up to the person and not just left to a "Sorry, the system said no". If it's some granny returning yarn that was the wrong shade, but she had already returned a couple other things (old people return a ton of stuff), I think an exception could be made. Of course, then you get into profiling. Old lady vs. legit short Mexican with a tear tattoo that wants to return a Hello Kitty clock because it doesn't work...
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Unfortunately, management across the board seems to be leaning towards taking away a lot of the decision making ability for employees and not doing proper training for CS, or so it seems.

I was just at Planet Fitness 1 hour ago. An older couple in front of me was there to workout but had their CC expire and PF (stupidly) now requires a checking account. They didn't have their checking info with them, so they were turned away. Common sense CS training says that PF should make an exception for that visit (put them on 7day pass or something) since they were geared and ready to go. Instead, PF decided to create a negative experience out of nothing and now, they're free to shop other gyms because they know they're not locked in.

I've noticed that retail stores are now tracking gift card usage as well. Use one at Lowe's and they ask for a state ID. I inquired about it and they said that the ID must match the gift card holder if it's from a return. So if I would have sold my gift card, the next person is SOL.
 
Ur_Mom said:
Treat someone like a criminal and they won't come back. Accuse them of stealing, etc.. It's bad service, and they really need to train their loss prevention people to not be a wanna be cop with a power issue. I won't shop at a couple places due to that. It doesn't matter to their bottom line. They lose out on a couple customers a year, which is no big deal. But, we also don't recommend those places. It still doesn't make a difference, but they are still losing potential sales. :/

Tracking returns should be done. But, it should also be up to the person and not just left to a "Sorry, the system said no". If it's some granny returning yarn that was the wrong shade, but she had already returned a couple other things (old people return a ton of stuff), I think an exception could be made. Of course, then you get into profiling. Old lady vs. legit short Mexican with a tear tattoo that wants to return a Hello Kitty clock because it doesn't work...
Click to expand...


So I'll throw in my 2 cents, disagree some, agree some, and just say some that wasn't said.

For oldmanbal, that dude grabbed your hand, I'm guessing you were younger at the time, so definitely understandable that you didn't resist much, but the very first words out of your mouth should have been delivered very calmly, very firmly, "Sir, That's Assault, Do you realize that you have just assaulted me?" Then you want to speak with the Senior Store Manager. Then you explain what you were doing and why you were doing it to the store manager and leave the flunky security dude sitting in the cold wondering if he really fucked up by grabbing your hand. Be reasonable and calm and firm while you have a discussion with the store manager who, if he has any sense, is going to take you right back over to the mouse pads and allow you to check them out as he apologizes for the security dude's fuck up. Of course this is all easy to say now.

Ur_Mom, Criminals will come back, even if you treat them like criminals, only the honest ones will be offended, the criminals will be right there the moment you turn your back working an angle.

You are correct about the training, store personnel do need to know what their role is when working loss prevention and it's not cop. But, one criminal can cause more loss than several offended customers in a year, but it's still bad business to offend your customers, they are always right is the best rule.
 
lcpiper said:
Store returns are not a right and even if you see some people's returns being accepted and your own declined, unless you can show some kind of prejudicial treatment, racial or gender or age or religion based, then it's just a business decision and not illegal.

And store Policy isn't a contract, it's not an agreement, it's a notification of what it is, policy. Nothing says policy always has to be followed.
Click to expand...

Most states require store policy to be posted, and the policy is part of the purchase agreement, which is an implicit contract in the purchase. They need to at least warn you of the possibility up front, and in many states, this is likely illegal.
 
lcpiper said:
Store returns are not a right and even if you see some people's returns being accepted and your own declined, unless you can show some kind of prejudicial treatment, racial or gender or age or religion based, then it's just a business decision and not illegal.

And store Policy isn't a contract, it's not an agreement, it's a notification of what it is, policy. Nothing says policy always has to be followed.
Click to expand...

Big Box retailer hurt you as a child didn't they? It's OK, let it all out, we're here for you. Returns are there for a reason as there's no guarantee your product will work when you get home, even if it was tested in the store. Returns are a consumers right.
 
raz-0 said:
Most states require store policy to be posted, and the policy is part of the purchase agreement, which is an implicit contract in the purchase. They need to at least warn you of the possibility up front, and in many states, this is likely illegal.
Click to expand...

You are correct about Return Policies being required to be posted. In fact, the law is much clearer regarding this, but then when you get to what the policy actually is, that starts being a far loser set of issues. I'll say that in a very quick and cursory look I spotted at least one State's Law which said that a retailer could not refuse a return, as defined in it's return policy, without justification.

The without Justification part is where the issue will be settled.

Many states most states, I don't have the energy to dig into 50 States and their individual laws. Go back and read the rest of my post that you quoted and decide if I am on board or not.
 
Krazy925 said:
Home Depot, Target, and Best Buy have been using this system for at least 16+ years. I used to work it for the first two, and my girlfriend and her sister worked at Best Buy years later with the same return system.

Did none of you guys catch it's people returning without the receipt/any way to verify how it was paid for?

Target and Home Depot. I worked returns for both of them.

The only way that they would deny returns is if someone returned over an allotted amount without being able to show they purchased it.

If you didn't have the card it was purchased on or the receipt they could allow you to do a receiptless return. It's for the rare case that you paid cash for something or no longer had the card -- it's not every return.You get the lowest sale price from either the last 90 or 180 days, most people dug out their cards when they found that out.
Click to expand...

I agree with what you posted but in this case the screen cap the guy in the story posted from The Retail Equation shows that he had a receipt for the three items.
It also shows that Best Buy did refund him, but along with the second two came the ban.
 
SSimmons05 said:
Big Box retailer hurt you as a child didn't they? It's OK, let it all out, we're here for you. Returns are there for a reason as there's no guarantee your product will work when you get home, even if it was tested in the store. Returns are a consumers right.
Click to expand...

WTF does this have to do with anything?

If returns are a consumer right, why do I see stores with notices like "No Returns", or "No Returns for Sale Items"?

You want to discuss things I'm cool with it, but if you think you are going to belittle me with a fucked up bullshit comment then good luck.

I don't mind taking the gloves off, I have a lot of experience with it.
 
PantherBlitz said:
I agree with what you posted but in this case the screen cap the guy in the story posted from The Retail Equation shows that he had a receipt for the three items.
It also shows that Best Buy did refund him, but along with the second two came the ban.
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The original article mentions receipt less.

I’m less intimately familiar with B.B., at the time 15+ years ago neither Target nor Home Depot cared as long as you had the receipt. Id like to see the response from B.B. on this.

“Stephen Holmes, a spokesman for Home Depot, which also uses The Retail Equation, said the store only uses the service when customers attempt to return without a receipt.”
-from the article
 
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