Stereo vs. Dolby headphones

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larkin

Gawd
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Oct 24, 2005
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For first person shooters position information is super valuable. I just purchased Sennheiser G4ME 360s and I love them but someone was trying to convince me that Dolby headphones are where it's at. What do pro gamers use?
 
dolby headphone is overrated but if you believe in it you should go for it.
 
You can use Dolby Headphone with your Sennheiser headphones. Dolby Headphone is a virtual surround sound technology that downmixes 7.1 or 5.1 channel audio into stereo for headphone use. It's similar to Creative's CMSS 3D-Headphone technology. They both work pretty well, and make stereo headphones sound like full surround-sound systems.

Some games work better with virtual surround sound than others.
 
Thanks for that tip. I had the misunderstanding that Dolby Headphone was actually a headphone or a technology included in the headphone. I have X-fi but preferred the audio in BF3 with CMSS3D turned off.

Thanks for the feedback.
 
I haven't been able to compare virtual surround vs physical surround 5.1 headphones (most 7.1 headphones are virtual), but I have a Tritton Ax Pro 5.1 Headset which I really enjoy using.

Each side has 4 speakers to give you 5.1 surround. I think they can be found for around $160 or so. Check the reviews to see what people say, but I realy like my pair. I hear every footstep around me :D
 
There are threads in the Computer Audio forum about surround headphones. Seems like 5.1 headphones aren't that great and the better choice is a good pair of 2-channel headphones with Dolby headphone feature.
 
There are such things as"true" 5.1 or 7.1 headsets. The problem with them is that they have to pack multiple drivers into each ear cup. The sound quality from multiple smaller drivers is usually less appealing than virtual surround from two large drivers.

I have used both 5.1 cans and stereo cans with virtual surround and I finally settled on the Sennheiser 360s as well. They are best paired with an Astro mixamp and provide excellent virtual surround and directional cues. I sometimes use them with my X-fi Titanium for PC gaming or listening to FLAC files as well.
 
You only have two ears, so you only needs two speakers. Everything else is software.
 
Majinhoju said:
I haven't been able to compare virtual surround vs physical surround 5.1 headphones (most 7.1 headphones are virtual), but I have a Tritton Ax Pro 5.1 Headset which I really enjoy using.

Each side has 4 speakers to give you 5.1 surround. I think they can be found for around $160 or so. Check the reviews to see what people say, but I realy like my pair. I hear every footstep around me :D
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currently i have a tritton headset too.

I got a turtle beach before that but the turtle beach headband snapped on me. So far tritton been working great just it is getting a bit worn out.
 
Obi_Kwiet said:
You only have two ears, so you only needs two speakers. Everything else is software.
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This is true. The majority of the "5.1" headsets you can buy anyway are just normal stereo headphones setup with dolby software somewhere in them.

Anyway, 2 very large and very responsive drivers in stereo will beat any multi-channel setup of smaller and lower grade drivers. Surround software (either in the game, your sound card or otherwise) plus a very open and high quality stereo headset will give you the same huge soundstage you need for excellent positional audio that the smattering of tiny drivers will give you, with the added benefit that the stereo setup will sound loads better because 2 big awesome things >> 5+ tinier and lower quality things.

Lastly, most 5.1/7.1 headsets you buy have built in mics and are plastic and are designed to look very "gamer." Instead, you can get a nice set of studio or audiophile headphones and then you'll look and feel extremely classy when you use them :)
 
I personally think Dolby Headphone sounds aweful, same with any other virtual surround sound thing I've tried for that matter. I just stick to regular stereo through my HD650s. All the sounds have so much more punch and power to them, and I dont notice any lack of directionality compared to virtual surround through headphones.
 
socK said:
Am I right in assuming this card supports 5.1 output but can downmix 7.1 with dolby headphone?
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Where are you getting the 7.1 signal? If the card only supports 5.1, then it'll probably just drop the extra channels, assuming they come from a Blu-Ray or something - I don't think it'll downmix them.
 
Forceman said:
Where are you getting the 7.1 signal? If the card only supports 5.1, then it'll probably just drop the extra channels, assuming they come from a Blu-Ray or something - I don't think it'll downmix them.
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I think it would be outputting 2.1 in the end but I'm not sure if dolby headphone will gobble 8 channels anyway. Trying to find reviews but it kinda looks like yes
 
I use Senn HD590s with Dolby Headphone.

It sounds fucking awesome. Much better than CMSS-3D IMO.
 
CMSS-3D is horrible on my Ath-AD700s. I normally don't care for any of the virtual sound settings for headphones. Not really sure how it could improve sound positioning because it's are already perfection as far as pin pointing goes with these headphones.
 
Obi_Kwiet said:
You only have two ears, so you only needs two speakers. Everything else is software.
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Sums it all up, folks. Dolby Headphones are a gimmick. Some people like it, others don't.

As others have said, you're better off spending as much money as you're willing to on quality stereo headphones and if you want gimmicks you can do it on the software end as little or as much as you want.
 
Dolby Headphone and CMSS3D directional cues can sound very nice if you have them properly set up, meaning the virtualizer gets fed with 5.1 or 7.1 signal that then gets turned into "binaural" signal. Sound quality gets worse as it does on all software alterations, but thats not their point.

On two channel signals they only work as stereo spatializers, which just sounds like crap. There are no sound directions for them to work on.

Here is an example of binaural recording (recorded with dummyhead with two mics instead of ears) which CMSS3D and Dolby Headphone pretty much try to simulate in software, with rather varying results. Listen this with headphones, eyes closed and no effects enabled (EQ and such).

http://www.qsound.com/demos/virtualbarbershop_long.htm
 
Q-BZ said:
Sums it all up, folks. Dolby Headphones are a gimmick. Some people like it, others don't.

As others have said, you're better off spending as much money as you're willing to on quality stereo headphones and if you want gimmicks you can do it on the software end as little or as much as you want.
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How is Dolby Headphone a gimmick? It's a legitimate surround virtualization system in software. Without Dolby Headphone you get weirdness such as sounds from the direct left or right only coming out of one side of your headphones, which is obviously not realistic.

It's true that some people prefer CMSS-3D over Dolby Headphone, and vice versa (to me DH works better overall, but it depends on the application/game), but they certainly aren't "gimmicks".
 
I think everyone should just try out either version for themselves before deciding. Otherwise the argument goes on and on. It's like bitrate quality and how much you really need to spend on a pair of quality headphones.

Personally, I was very skeptical about it, but after trying my a40 mixamp the past few months, I can definitely tell a beneficial difference. It is something that is very difficult to explain (for me at least),.

In regards to the OPs question specifically... pro gamers are just like the rest of us: They have preferences. Even if, say, more pro gamers use stereo headphones or vice versa (don't know the actual statistics, could not even be true), what may actually make YOU a pro gamer or whatever you're trying to get out of the headphones, might be an entirely different experience. Try them both.
 
MaZa said:
Dolby Headphone and CMSS3D directional cues can sound very nice if you have them properly set up, meaning the virtualizer gets fed with 5.1 or 7.1 signal that then gets turned into "binaural" signal. Sound quality gets worse as it does on all software alterations, but thats not their point.

On two channel signals they only work as stereo spatializers, which just sounds like crap. There are no sound directions for them to work on.

Here is an example of binaural recording (recorded with dummyhead with two mics instead of ears) which CMSS3D and Dolby Headphone pretty much try to simulate in software, with rather varying results. Listen this with headphones, eyes closed and no effects enabled (EQ and such).

http://www.qsound.com/demos/virtualbarbershop_long.htm
Click to expand...

Binaural recordings are great and usually sound pretty good, I've heard a few of them and at work we have an expensive binaural set up foam head set up with microphones that is used for testing cabin noise in cars. They sound really realistic.

I've never heard virtual surround than can get anywhere near emulating it, even when its downsampling a 5.1 or 7.1 signal. Every instance of virtual surround I've tried fails in that it modifies the sound to the point of sounding like I'm fighting in a some sort of closed room tin can. Exaggerating certain sounds but failing to add much useful directionality to them. I've tested it back to back and honestly I've never felt any increase in directionality but a huge reduction in actual sound quality.

But hey, try it and see what you like. I'm sure it depends on your set up. I'm listening through a $200AUD sound card and $500AUD headphones, so clearly sound quality is important to me. I love the punch and power I get in games through the audio set up I have, and the instances of virtual surround I've tried all detract from that.
 
Tudz said:
Binaural recordings are great and usually sound pretty good, I've heard a few of them and at work we have an expensive binaural set up foam head set up with microphones that is used for testing cabin noise in cars. They sound really realistic.

I've never heard virtual surround than can get anywhere near emulating it, even when its downsampling a 5.1 or 7.1 signal. Every instance of virtual surround I've tried fails in that it modifies the sound to the point of sounding like I'm fighting in a some sort of closed room tin can. Exaggerating certain sounds but failing to add much useful directionality to them. I've tested it back to back and honestly I've never felt any increase in directionality but a huge reduction in actual sound quality.

But hey, try it and see what you like. I'm sure it depends on your set up. I'm listening through a $200AUD sound card and $500AUD headphones, so clearly sound quality is important to me. I love the punch and power I get in games through the audio set up I have, and the instances of virtual surround I've tried all detract from that.
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Correct. I kinda forgot to bold the TRY part. Neither CMSS3D nor Dolby Headphone can truly simulate an actual binaural recording, but to my ears they do a decent job in directional audio. (at a heavy cost of audio quality) But I guess this is more ear than rig dependent thing. As an avid Head-fier I think I got my borderline ridiculous headphone rig part covered... :p
 
i have a pair of nice stereo headphones, and a set of "true" 5.1 analog headphones.

Stereo's are nice for music and movies and whatnot. I use the 5.1's for gaming.

I like the analog 5.1's because they dont have any latency associated with the dolby encoding, or using a USB input. I put money into a cool soundcard goshdarnit, i'm not gunna waste it on usb headphones! :p. And the directionality in my specific pair (tritton ax pro), is pretty awesome. People accuse me of wallhacking in Battlefield BC2, but the reality is i can just hear where they are.
 
That qsound website made me realize how much i missed Aureal3D for headphone 3D and how bitter i still am with Creative for buying them out and then not using their technology.
 
So I guess my question is, if you have a nice set of stereo headphones and you want some sort of directional audio in a game, how exactly do you achieve that without DH/CMSS-3D? Since audiophiles seem to think those are so terrible. I turn on "Headphone" mode without DH and it sounds like crap, I get sounds from each side coming out of only one side of the headphones or the other. Am I missing something?
 
Ohh they are crap for music listening and movies iirc, but for games you do need DH or CMSS-3D...
 
MavericK96 said:
So I guess my question is, if you have a nice set of stereo headphones and you want some sort of directional audio in a game, how exactly do you achieve that without DH/CMSS-3D? Since audiophiles seem to think those are so terrible. I turn on "Headphone" mode without DH and it sounds like crap, I get sounds from each side coming out of only one side of the headphones or the other. Am I missing something?
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Well its up to you what you prefer really.

Personally, I just played a round of a game and swapped between DH and regular stereo half way through the match, just to confirm I haven't been bullshitting in this thread :p the difference was phenomenal.

I could barely detect any difference in directionality, there was some. I felt was that the left and right were more separated. Without DH I can hear what's coming from left or right, but with DH I could hear more clearly what is left and right. But I wouldn't say it added any additional information on whether the sound is coming from the front left, mid left or rear left, simply left and right was more exaggerated. Its not like it was no directionality vs heaps of directionality, it was simply left and right directionality vs more exaggerated left and right directionality for DH on.

But the biggest difference is the actual sound quality. I started the round with DH on, and everything sounded "meh", the sounds were there but they felt distant and disconnected. Turned DH off, WOW, it reminded me why I love my expensive headphones so much, the depth in the sound is just incredible. The "crack crack crack" of a rifle, the deep heavy THUD THUD THUD of a slow firing high calibre machine gun, the roar when half a dozen of your team mates are all firing at once, it just sounds so much more powerful, so much more immersive. By comparison DH just sounded sterile and disconnected.

That's my experience. Very little increase in directionality and a huge decrease in sound quality. Revdarian says crap for music and movies but you need DH for games... I completely disagree.

But hey, there's obviously some subjectivity to it, otherwise there wouldn't be people recommending it even though I personally think it sounds terrible :p
 
Except like I was saying, if you don't use DH you get sounds coming out of only one side, which sounds really funky and unrealistic. You're saying this sounds better to you?
 
MavericK96 said:
Except like I was saying, if you don't use DH you get sounds coming out of only one side, which sounds really funky and unrealistic. You're saying this sounds better to you?
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With DH off you get left and right, with DH on you get left and right slightly more exaggerated, DH adds sweet fuck all to my ability to hear any directionality.

Whether DH is on or off, I can tell when someone is shooting at me from the left, right, or behind me. Its not like turning it off suddenly blurs everything together into nothingness, I can still tell whether my team mate is on my left or my right from the sound their foot steps make.

And yes, with it off, it sounds vastly better. Not even slightly, the difference through my HD650s is huge. With it off, the sound is powerful, visceral, immersive. With it on, its cold, sterile, disconnected. Every time I've tested DH it adds very little information about directionality and loses heaps of the punch, depth and power of the sound (and other virtual surround systems as well, this is far from the first I've tried :p). I've tested virtual surround in different forms and they are always much the same.

When you talk about a full 5.1 SPEAKER set up, then its a different animal. I also have a 5.1 speaker set up and for games, yeah, that's better than a stereo set up, no doubt. But when talking about headphones, which is what I mostly use for gaming to avoid disturbing the neighbours, DH off is the way I like it and I dont feel like I'm at any disadvantage for not using it, but the audio immersion is so much better with it off.
 
I'm sure you are, but you are setting 5.1 sound (in Windows and the game) when you switch to Dolby Headphone right?
 
Forceman said:
I'm sure you are, but you are setting 5.1 sound (in Windows and the game) when you switch to Dolby Headphone right?
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I must admit I had "stereo mode" set to on in the game when I turned CMSS-3D on. I will definitely give CMSS-3D a try again when BF3 comes out and keep stereo set to off.
 
Obi_Kwiet said:
You only have two ears, so you only needs two speakers. Everything else is software.
Click to expand...

Sort of. Your brain does the same thing as software to tell you someone speaking behind you is actually behind you. The shape and design of your ears also help focus the sound into the ear, the brain knows this and can tell you where a sound is coming from based on pitch and several other factors.

In a 5.1 headset with more than 2 speakers you can get quality surround since the audio is coming in front of, next to or behind the ear itself. It can make a noticeable difference if you have a quality set.

Depending on the software driving it the stereo headset speakers can change pitch to trick your brain into thinking that sound was behind you as all sounds like that are... A good set of stereo cans with good software can sound quite good.

For music the 5.1 headsets are not usually all that good but mine do a decent job. Some people have there own preference for what they use and thats great. In game

To the OP you will have to figure out what you want and go from there.
I use the Tritton PC510 HDa and it gives very high quality surround sound over analog. If you get a USB headset you will be using the headsets built in USB sound card which is usually not as good as the one built into your motherboard.
 
Forceman said:
I'm sure you are, but you are setting 5.1 sound (in Windows and the game) when you switch to Dolby Headphone right?
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Yup, tested a few games and made sure they all had their respective surround modes switched on, and in my soundcard drivers it was set to 6 or 8 channels. It does highlight the directionality more when its on, if it didn't completely destroy sound quality I'd probably leave it on :p Unfortunately it does, so I prefer it off.
 
Forceman said:
I'm sure you are, but you are setting 5.1 sound (in Windows and the game) when you switch to Dolby Headphone right?
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Yeah. I use a 5.1 speaker setup as well, so it's set up in Windows as 5.1 by default. I switch to "Headphone" from "5.1 Speakers" in the Xonar Control Panel. Then I choose DH if I want it.

I just played a bit without DH, and it does still have directional sound, though when things are to direct right or left it sounds a little weird because you only hear them in one ear, whereas with DH you hear them slightly with each (which is more realistic).

I'll try it a bit more with DH off but I'm thinking I like it better on. I do know what you mean about the sound quality, though. Kinda makes it more washed out sounding. Also I'm not sure if I like the Reference or Livelier Room modes better.
 
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