Steam was first introduced to me back in the old Counter-Strike days. They were the WON days if anyone remembers them. Originally I was upset because I didn't want it to change but shortly after I assimilated and it's been great ever since.
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Steam is Killing the PC Market?
- Thread starter HardOCP News
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piscian18
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oop. I wanna gonna reply but then I got distracted by a badass sale on steam.
the_real_7
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do all my games on steam . . there cheap all in one place and easy to take out and replace
purple_haze
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i was kinda taken aback at first when steam was forced upon cs source. but after in game browser implementation and other minor tweaks... i love steam.
I think the article references Steam poorly because I think the retailers actually mean Steamworks integration, not the actual digital distribution service. It seems to me that they're not saying
"Game X is sold on Steam? We're not going to sell it!"
but rather
"Game X has integrated Steamworks features that require you to use Steam even if you buy it from us? We're not going to sell it"
They want game developers to stop using Steamworks for multiplayer, achievements or whatever other integration because it biases people toward buying those games from Steam instead of their DD platform (or potential future platform). If I have to use Steam to play a game anyway, why not just buy it from Steam?
"Game X is sold on Steam? We're not going to sell it!"
but rather
"Game X has integrated Steamworks features that require you to use Steam even if you buy it from us? We're not going to sell it"
They want game developers to stop using Steamworks for multiplayer, achievements or whatever other integration because it biases people toward buying those games from Steam instead of their DD platform (or potential future platform). If I have to use Steam to play a game anyway, why not just buy it from Steam?
DarkStar_WNY
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So, in effect Gamestop and othre brick and motor stores and saying that if developers don't stop including Steam that they will stop carrying the 4-5 titles they do now?
Good then maybe digital distribution can become more widespread and actually offer a price reducting they consistantly do because it would undercut brick and mortor stores.
Good then maybe digital distribution can become more widespread and actually offer a price reducting they consistantly do because it would undercut brick and mortor stores.
__hollywood|meow
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why not? if theres a better deal somewhere else. but of course instead of becoming competitive and making headway, these companies want to continue lumbering about aimlessly, banning games that have convenient features of a competing DD system. they're practically stewing in their own increasing irrelevance by even suggesting this sort of thing (lets loosely call it a "tactic") at all...which is why
this thread has so many responses. because we hear that kind of thing as pc gamers and go WTF??
RangerXML
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Only buy a game retail if: A) It uses Steamworks. B) It comes out before it gets unlocked on Steam. and C) If I really won't it. The last 2 games I bought retail were, you ready for this, MW2 and BOps. Why do I like Steam, because no disc in tray and I can download it anytime I want to play it, like last week when I wanted to play WaW.
Outamyhead
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Retailers own fault for pushing the market into digital downloading, and 80% is a big exaggeration, since most of the publishers have their own digital download section, as well as Direct 2 Drive, or File Planet.
The retail stores tried to force console gaming onto us, and it back fired, I bought my first game through STEAM the other day, because no one besides Amazon has Mass Effect, unless you want to download it...even Game Stop are trying to get in on the act, by offering download only on some items!
The retail stores tried to force console gaming onto us, and it back fired, I bought my first game through STEAM the other day, because no one besides Amazon has Mass Effect, unless you want to download it...even Game Stop are trying to get in on the act, by offering download only on some items!
What a waste of bandwith. Just use Steam to backup the games, then slap them onto an external hdd. Then all you have is minor updates, if the backup is old.
RangerXML
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I do that now, but I hadn't downloaded WaW yet from them, only bought it after it was on sale since it wasn't on Steam on retail release.
Dear Arcygenical: you have been rendered short-sighted.
And when your precious interwebz go down? Then what genius?
Only those of us who actually have a physical copy (that doesn't require online activation) will be playing!
.
If the entire internet goes down, I suspect I will have bigger problems than finding time to play games, like trying to avoid the apocalypse and fight off giant mutant beetles.
The argument about not "owning" the games is really moot if you think about it. As has been mentioned, it's been ages since we "owned" most of the media that we consume. That being said, I don't care if I truly own what I use, provided that the license I am purchasing allows me to use the product at my leisure. I use iTunes and Steam pretty much exclusively now, because they give me the easiest and most convenient avenue to use the property I've paid for.
jakesnake3037
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Moot point!!
I was just correcting the misconception that they were going to stop selling games because they are sold by Steam. Realizing that, it's a semi-reasonable tactic, at least when you look at typical business mentalities.
That doesn't mean it's going to be an effective tactic, however. They don't have nearly the clout they apparently think they do.
GreenMonkey
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Only because they've convinced the younger generation that this is OK.
I am on the "rental" boat. If it requires a call home to some remote server to authenticate, you don't own it. You only own it until there's a technical problem with their servers / network, or your internet goes down, or the company goes out of business.
I refuse to buy Steam protected games unless they are rental priced (under $10). I don't buy any DRM-protected games that require calling home somewhere to ask if you can use YOUR PROPERTY. "Please oh please let me use this, I promise I didn't steal it!"
This new "you only own a license, not property" era, with no reselling rights and remote authentication DRM, is very disheartening. And you are all allowing them to take these rights by going along with it.
Just wait until Valve turns on you, like most companies eventually do, or they go out of business. And don't tell me it can't happen - has no one seen the number of venerable businesses go OOB in the past few years? All it takes is a big economic slump and a few bad decisions.
Even if that doesn't happen, just wait until there is nothing but Steam, well, you'll see what happens when a monopoly is in place. By agreeing to DRM, and catering to a one-player industry, you're asking for it.
Just imagine if you could only buy movies online through Steam, and they required an internet connection to Steam to authenticate the first time you used them, and you couldn't resell them. The fact that people think this is a good thing boggles my mind. It's the worst thing to come to gaming, ever, in my mind.
I did not read all 11 pages so forgive me if i repeat this from an earlier post.
This past weekend steam had the 50% off of Risen. They ran out of keys pretty fast - the reason was that it sold more copies of the game than had been sold the entire time the game had been out. New keys were handed out on monday morning so now everything is golden. The point is that steam, and particularly the steam sales can be a huge boost to game companies. Instead of bitching about losing market shares and whatnot the retail outlets need to find a way to bring back paying customers.
This past weekend steam had the 50% off of Risen. They ran out of keys pretty fast - the reason was that it sold more copies of the game than had been sold the entire time the game had been out. New keys were handed out on monday morning so now everything is golden. The point is that steam, and particularly the steam sales can be a huge boost to game companies. Instead of bitching about losing market shares and whatnot the retail outlets need to find a way to bring back paying customers.
There is no "new era". It's always been this way. You purchase a license to use the content, not the content itself, and at no time do you take ownership of that content. Just because you buy a box with a DVD in it doesn't change the fact that you do not own any of the actual game content.
GreenMonkey
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You used to be able to re-sell a game if you wanted. It was your PROPERTY. You OWNED the physical copy of the game. For example, I sold a copy of HOMM4 about a year ago.
All the Steam lovers seem to be totally on board with letting this go away. I don't want this, any more than I want it for DVDs, CDs, or anything else.
Spare-Flair
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Legally speaking, it was NEVER your copy. When you installed the game and clicked "yes" to the agreement, you were agreeing to the software license. You only had a license to the software and it was not permanent property.
I do get what you are arguing though, that you used to be able to sell your physical media and pass on your game keys.
I ameliorate this for myself by only buying games on sale anyway. The convenience and price savings on many games on sales negates any money I would have made from selling a game anyway because it's hard to sell PC games on the secondary market.
In the past you buy physical media for $30-$60, sell it later for oh maybe $10. To sweeten the deal, let's say you actually get $20 for one.
You're now down $10-$40, and you no longer even have the game.
Steam? You're out the initial sale price of $5-$10, so worst case you're where you were with buying physical media...
Except that you now have the game forever. No losing keys, no media lost or gone bad.
Etc etc...
Last year, three months after release, I got Batman for roughly $4. For $4, I simply don't care that I can't sell it.
FWIW - My Steam acct currently has 372 games tied to it. Highest price I've ever paid was $25, but typically I won't ever go above $15. $5 or below is almost an automatic sale (obviously). I'd guess my average is ~$7, although that "Steam calculator" seemed to suggest my acct's worth $4K or so, but even then, my average is below $11. At $11, I still don't care that I can't sell the game.
If you want to wait a year to buy a game, you definitely save money. Be it Steam or otherwise. Just about every game I buy is $50-$60. Including all the Steam ones. Except, I can't recoup my money whatsoever with the Steam ones. Unless I want to just sell my whole Steam account.
If Steam had the option to return my games for $10-$20 off a new game, I'd be happy. Too bad it doesn't and I'm stuck with some games I don't even want. Like Force Unleashed.
These deep discounts aren't taking a year, though. Like my example, Batman was being given away three months after release.
If you just absolutely need to play it the second it's available, pay the premium either way. If it's that damn good you want it that bad, why is selling it even a consideration?
Wait. If you didn't want it, why the hell did you even buy it in the first place? The logic of that doesn't make sense, regardless of price or return policies.
Again, I myself paid $7.49 for it, so I myself don't really care. But Steam certainly wouldn't entertain your "$10-$20" credit suggestion on a game I paid $7.49 for.
That's cause the 3D Batman came out, so it's price dropped rapidly. Whenever a new edition of the game comes out, the old edition gets a price drop. Resident Evil 5 is still $30.
You buy the game, cause you think it'll be good. Turns out, it's not good whatsoever. Now you're just stuck with it. Steam's answer.
"As with most software products, we will not offer refunds for purchases made online as outlined in the software license - please review Section 4 of the Steam Subscriber Agreement for more information."
dr.stevil
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this is the policy that just about every place has (to my knowledge). Since PC games use serial numbers, they don't allow you to return them once they've been opened (used or not). This has been the case with most stores since the early to mid 90's... if you're on the fence about a particular game, either try to get a demo, a 'linux iso' or wait for reviews before you pull the trigger.
LOL Post of the year.
The article said:
Until they get a digital service, STFU.
If they create a digital download service that can compete with Steam, power to 'em.
Yes, pretty much every store has a zero return policy on any kind of opened software. Course, I could still sell that software to other ppl.
Steam? I can't sell it. I can sell my whole account, but not just a single game. Really, I don't see why I can't return it. I mean, Steam tracks when I bought the game and how long I've played the game. If Steam shows me buying a game on 1 Nov and only 0.5 hours of play time, then I think that I should be allowed to return it.
Demos? They like never release them prior to the actual full game release. Many times, I buy a game on release day, so a demo that comes out 2-3 days after the games release doesn't do me much good. The only demos I see that come out before the full game release are multiplayer demos, which don't give me any kind of feel of the singleplayer.
Spare-Flair
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You can't return opened software to a brick and motar store if you don't like it either? Selling it won't recoup much costs. Any good PC gamer knows ahead of time whether a game is worth playing or not because there are so many ways to try them out first through friends, demos, illegitimate ways, etc.
Spare-Flair
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Why should steam allow you to return a game you've already played just because it's an electronic version? Software returns just aren't allowed anywhere.
Maybe a "trial" period would work and maybe some other retailer will adopt this as a method of getting customers to their site but I only see it as a money losing thing as people will play games for half and hour and then return them.
Why do you buy games on release day? If you do that, you are wholly responsible for your own purchasing mistakes and others shouldn't have to compensate you for not being a smart shopper.
Yep, the terms of the license are quite different. There's no debating that.
In a manner of speaking, yes. If you aren't comfortable with the thought of not being able to return or re-sell a game, I suggest you do more pre-purchase research. If you believe that the inability to resell purchases is in any way exclusive to Steam, you're sorely mistaken. There is no digital distributor that is going to offer you any kind of money-back guarantee or allow you to re-sell your license. It doesn't exist. In all likelihood, It will never exist. For what it's worth, though, Steam offers more ways for publishers to offer you ways to try out their games before buying than any other digital distributor, including free-to-play periods.
I never said there were any other digital distributors offered any kind of ability to return a game. I'll just break it down for everyone else who decided to not bother reading any other post that was made.
Physical media > Digital media
Unless Physical media is tied into a stupid digital distribution service that screws you over.
I personally wish that games weren't tied to Steam. Even if I purchase the physical media, the CD code gets attached to my account, at which point. I can't resell the game. I can sell my whole account. Course my account is banned from the Steam forums, for condoning game piracy against Ubisoft.
Physical media > Digital media
Unless Physical media is tied into a stupid digital distribution service that screws you over.
I personally wish that games weren't tied to Steam. Even if I purchase the physical media, the CD code gets attached to my account, at which point. I can't resell the game. I can sell my whole account. Course my account is banned from the Steam forums, for condoning game piracy against Ubisoft.
GreenMonkey
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IF steam games were $10-$20 cheaper on release, you'd maybe have some sort of an argument. But they're not. They go on sale, eventually.
Imagine that, if you wait, the game will get cheaper. Oh wait, it works the same way at retail. Last time I bought a copy of a Steam protected game, it was Team Fortress 2. It was $10 at Best Buy, and $20 on Steam.
This argument assumes good prices are exclusive to Steam. They're not. As someone that has only purchased 1 steam game (TF2) and that was instore, I can assure you, retail games also go on clearance.
This is about the only argument people manage to make for giving up their first sale rights. It's a fallacy. Games go on sale. They are on sale on Steam a lot now...because a lot of people use Steam. Not due to some intrinisic "Steam is awesome" trait.
fattypants
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Steam is killing a PC market, not the PC market as a whole.
I much prefer digital to physical media. No downloads, no discs, lower prices, and here's the most important one:
Encouragement of indie developers and mod makers.
To get your game into a retail store, you have to have a crapload of money, a good marketing department, millions of dollars, and connections within major retailers. If you don't have that, then your studio has to be an arm of a major publisher like EA.
The price of admission is much lower for Steam.
I much prefer digital to physical media. No downloads, no discs, lower prices, and here's the most important one:
Encouragement of indie developers and mod makers.
To get your game into a retail store, you have to have a crapload of money, a good marketing department, millions of dollars, and connections within major retailers. If you don't have that, then your studio has to be an arm of a major publisher like EA.
The price of admission is much lower for Steam.
MentallyNormal
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I'm too lazy to get in my car,drive to the store and buy the game. I can sit home eat my chips click a button enter some numbers an bing bang boom I'm gaming. This is how they want it!
In the future I picture everyone in lazy boys on moving sidewalks,exactly like that movie I saw I can't remember at this moment.
I do like how I don't have to have extra boxes and such. Sometimes though the box art is cool too look at and reading the manual while on the crapper is one thing I miss. Especially those big manuals.
In the future I picture everyone in lazy boys on moving sidewalks,exactly like that movie I saw I can't remember at this moment.
I do like how I don't have to have extra boxes and such. Sometimes though the box art is cool too look at and reading the manual while on the crapper is one thing I miss. Especially those big manuals.
BurntToast
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As much as I like Steam in its current form. you have got to be kidding me.
Steam is buying their way to the top b selling product at or below cost. This will drive in new customers, creating someone out of nothing. Down the line it will be up to Steam if the wish to continue this route
My guess is that they will ease up on the sales just like any other e-tailer startup does.Newegg anyone? They used to have free shipping on all, and UBER cheap prices. Now places like Amazon, etc. at meeting and beating their discounts. Unless the markup on video games is insanely high, you should expect the same from steam. Then again, with no B&M there might be the headroom to do so.
D
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as long as there is other places to buy games if steam tries to muscle out other vendors we will have choices. It's when these alternatives go away that we are screwed. Buy your games up now I guess.
Bootleg Usher
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I bought Metro 2033 on release day at Gamestop, and even though I have the retail box and this is only a single player game, you still have to download steam to play it. I can understand retail stores thinking that is not fair.
Omegas
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Raise your hand if you've got 60GB's or MORE of Steam games you have NEVER actually played before, but because Steam had a deal on it, you just had to buy it.
/raise hand
Now how many of you have bought retail games at box stores and Never even opened the box only to throw it onto a 3ft pile of other games in the same condition.
Pretty much the same thing, only one of the two hardly ever happen...
/raise hand
Now how many of you have bought retail games at box stores and Never even opened the box only to throw it onto a 3ft pile of other games in the same condition.
Pretty much the same thing, only one of the two hardly ever happen...