Starting to plan my Haswell-E build

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Weeth

Gawd
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
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662
My current primary system (see sig) has been a bit of a lunchbag letdown. It's noisier than a Justin Bieber concert (even though I yanked the HD fan), the Alienware OS add-on is buggy and unstable, it runs at least 10C hotter than my somewhat similar 2600K (which has the world's greatest cooler bar none), the video occasionally flashes to full bright then turns off for a couple of seconds, and the damn thing refuses to stay in Sleep mode, waking itself up whenever the #$%& it feels like. By far the most disconcerting thing is that every once in a while I hear a sound like running water coming from the rig. I've checked everything and it's normal, but it still sounds sometimes like I've left the bathroom tap on. Yes, I've done everything including reinstalling everything from zilch twice and it doesn't help. This is definitely my last Dell buy. It will soon be time to dump this lousy excuse for a PC on some unsuspecting sucker... er... lucky enthusiast on eBay.

So the only hope I have on the horizon is a Haswell-E build. I'm willing to shell out a grand for the octocore in the hope that I can create a better system than this POS I have now.

Basic requirements:
  1. 64GB RAM
  2. Thunderbolt 2
  3. 4K Display
  4. 2 x 256GB SSDs
  5. SILENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know it's too early and there really isn't much info out on Haswell-E but I'd like to hear some input from you guys about the best configuration you'd see for this system. It's a NON-GAMING system. It's basically a workstation that runs Photoshop, Office, that sort of boring stuff.
 
For the RAM, it all comes down to the maximum DDR4 RAM sizes, and how many switches Intel chooses (or maybe motherboard manufacturers) for the RAM. For the consumer platform, there's a high chance that there won't be any DDR4 switches implemented, limiting it to one stick of RAM per channel. Therefore, in order to get your 64 gb RAM, DDR4 will need to launch with 16 gb modules (likely very expensive, 4 sticks will probably cost you at least $500).

The cheaper (and IMO smarter) thing to do would be to simply replace your CPU cooler.
 
Might want to consider a some of the hardware that supports a Mac OS X, since you are using Photoshop.
 
Tsumi said:
For the RAM, it all comes down to the maximum DDR4 RAM sizes, and how many switches Intel chooses (or maybe motherboard manufacturers) for the RAM. For the consumer platform, there's a high chance that there won't be any DDR4 switches implemented, limiting it to one stick of RAM per channel. Therefore, in order to get your 64 gb RAM, DDR4 will need to launch with 16 gb modules (likely very expensive, 4 sticks will probably cost you at least $500).

The cheaper (and IMO smarter) thing to do would be to simply replace your CPU cooler.
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Unfortunately me and this PC are on bad terms and we're heading to divorce court no matter what. So the replacement will be a Haswell-E of some configuration. I really hate the thought of going with 4 sticks for the 64 GB, but I guess the only alternative is to go Xeon and ECC and then the cost balloons way up. But if I gotta spend $500 for RAM I can handle that. I hope that they'll be that cheap as 16 GB DDR3 costs that much or more now, and I think that DDR4 will be more expensive, at least at launch time.

SpeedyVV said:
Might want to consider a some of the hardware that supports a Mac OS X, since you are using Photoshop.
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A somewhat similar configuration in the new Mac Pro (that black little trash can looking thing) could cost around $10K. Besides, I'm running some proprietary software that's Windows only, so I'm going to stick to Win7 forever... or at least until the Microsoft Morons finally lock the front door behind that lunatic Ballmer and come out with a Win9 that reverses all of the revolting Win8 UI horror shows.
 
SpeedyVV said:
Might want to consider a some of the hardware that supports a Mac OS X, since you are using Photoshop.
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Do you have any data to backup that statement? As far as I know Photoshop runs well in Windows and OSX.
 
LeftSide said:
Do you have any data to backup that statement? As far as I know Photoshop runs well in Windows and OSX.
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I've run Photoshop professionally for well over a decade and I haven't owned a Mac all that time. Yes, Photoshop is just as good on Win as it is on OSX.
 
Weeth said:
Unfortunately me and this PC are on bad terms and we're heading to divorce court no matter what. So the replacement will be a Haswell-E of some configuration. I really hate the thought of going with 4 sticks for the 64 GB, but I guess the only alternative is to go Xeon and ECC and then the cost balloons way up. But if I gotta spend $500 for RAM I can handle that. I hope that they'll be that cheap as 16 GB DDR3 costs that much or more now, and I think that DDR4 will be more expensive, at least at launch time.
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DDR4 RAM will be quite expensive for a year or two judging from past trends with DDR2 and DDR3 RAM. Haswell-E should still have support for 8 slots of RAM as it seems kind of stupid to me that Haswell-E will be released with support for only four RAM slots considering that it's suppose to replace the current Ivy Bridge-E platform. So 64GB of RAM would still be possible with 8 sticks of 8GB of RAM.

Weeth said:
I know it's too early and there really isn't much info out on Haswell-E but I'd like to hear some input from you guys about the best configuration you'd see for this system. It's a NON-GAMING system. It's basically a workstation that runs Photoshop, Office, that sort of boring stuff.
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You've basically answered your own question: It's just too early to give solid advice about what kind of hardware you should be getting. Haswell-E is supposedly being releasef in the Q3 2014 time-frame. By that time-frame, newer and faster SSDs as well as higher quality and/or significantly quieter cases, HSF, and/or PSUs could be released. Which of course would change our recommendations for "best configuration for this system." Not to mention more info about which 4K displays would be a good choice to buy.

So just wait until Haswell-E is released before you start planning. It doens't do you any good to plan so far in advance.

With that said, I don't see Thunderbolt 2 being a feature you'll see on newer Intel motherboards. Note how little to no LGA 1150 mobos has Thunderbolt support whereas there a were a few older LGA 1155 mobos that did have Thunderbolt support. That should tell you how much in-demand Thunderbolt is and motherboard manufacturer's response to it.
 
Dangman said:
DDR4 RAM will be quite expensive for a year or two judging from past trends with DDR2 and DDR3 RAM. Haswell-E should still have support for 8 slots of RAM as it seems kind of stupid to me that Haswell-E will be released with support for only four RAM slots considering that it's suppose to replace the current Ivy Bridge-E platform. So 64GB of RAM would still be possible with 8 sticks of 8GB of RAM.


You've basically answered your own question: It's just too early to give solid advice about what kind of hardware you should be getting. Haswell-E is supposedly being releasef in the Q3 2014 time-frame. By that time-frame, newer and faster SSDs as well as higher quality and/or significantly quieter cases, HSF, and/or PSUs could be released. Which of course would change our recommendations for "best configuration for this system." Not to mention more info about which 4K displays would be a good choice to buy.

So just wait until Haswell-E is released before you start planning. It doens't do you any good to plan so far in advance.

With that said, I don't see Thunderbolt 2 being a feature you'll see on newer Intel motherboards. Note how little to no LGA 1150 mobos has Thunderbolt support whereas there a were a few older LGA 1155 mobos that did have Thunderbolt support. That should tell you how much in-demand Thunderbolt is and motherboard manufacturer's response to it.
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It's not about what's stupid or not, it's about what the specifications are. And default specifications for consumer DDR4 is one stick per channel.

For more sticks per channel, digital switches are required, which is almost an exclusive server feature. I highly doubt it will appear in any consumer platform, enthusiast or otherwise.
 
Tsumi said:
It's not about what's stupid or not, it's about what the specifications are. And default specifications for consumer DDR4 is one stick per channel.

For more sticks per channel, digital switches are required, which is almost an exclusive server feature. I highly doubt it will appear in any consumer platform, enthusiast or otherwise.
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Well we'll know more when Haswell-E is released.
 
In VR-Zone's article, it quite clearly states: 4 channels DDR4 2133 1 DIMM per channel. I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Haswell-E4.jpg
 
4 slots. That sucks. I'll bet ya that at launch 4 x 16 GB DDR4s will cost upwards of a grand. That's really not the news I wanted to hear, unfortunately.

I agree that very little is known about the platform so far, so it's probably best to delay any of these planning sessions for at least four or five months. Too bad.
 
WorldExclusive said:
Yes.

That's why the PC and Macbook combo works so well.
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I really have absolutely no use for OSX as there is not any software that I run that would be any different on it, and there is some software I use (the proprietary company one) that wouldn't run on Mac at all. So I'm perfectly happy sticking with Windows. This is not to state that OSX isn't "better" than Windows, but for my use there is no reason to switch.
 
On IB-E it is, so there is every reason to believe that it will remain that way.
 
Looks like you're planning out a pretty bad-ass system, Weeth. I would really hate to be in your shoes when purchasing time comes for 4x16GB of newly introduced DDR4.

Have you thought of going with a dual LGA2011 and higher-clocked Xeon(s)?
 
4 Slots shouldn't be that big of deal, doesnt DDR4 have higher density allowing what would normally be 8GB on DDR3 be 16GB on DDR4, so getting 4 16GB should be relatively cheaper than 8x8gb DDR3 when they both launch or launched and have the initial early adopter price premiums.

im not saying 16GB DDR4 sticks are going to be cheap at launch but once DDR4 is more mainstream, 16GB DDR4 sticks should be as widely/cost available as 8GB sticks for DDR3 are.
 
Yes, eventually, but that would take at least a year or two for the price premiums to come down.
 
Weeth said:
4 slots. That sucks. I'll bet ya that at launch 4 x 16 GB DDR4s will cost upwards of a grand. That's really not the news I wanted to hear, unfortunately.

I agree that very little is known about the platform so far, so it's probably best to delay any of these planning sessions for at least four or five months. Too bad.
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Yep, best to wait and use all the shiny new stuff we'll have then.
 
DejaWiz said:
Looks like you're planning out a pretty bad-ass system, Weeth. I would really hate to be in your shoes when purchasing time comes for 4x16GB of newly introduced DDR4.

Have you thought of going with a dual LGA2011 and higher-clocked Xeon(s)?
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I'm in that weird position where I need lots of cores but they have to be fast singly as well, so that really crunches my options. That damn old proprietary software I have to use is single threaded and runs like a pig on anything other than the fastest possible core. To get the most single threaded performance in an octocore Xeon now I'd have to go with the E5-2687WV2 which is well over two grand. Sure, I'd love to have a dual socket with those in there, but spending over $4K on CPUs alone unfortunately is not feasible.

Wildace said:
4 Slots shouldn't be that big of deal, doesnt DDR4 have higher density allowing what would normally be 8GB on DDR3 be 16GB on DDR4, so getting 4 16GB should be relatively cheaper than 8x8gb DDR3 when they both launch or launched and have the initial early adopter price premiums.

im not saying 16GB DDR4 sticks are going to be cheap at launch but once DDR4 is more mainstream, 16GB DDR4 sticks should be as widely/cost available as 8GB sticks for DDR3 are.
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Yeah, I'm girding myself for some astronomical pricing on DDR4 16GB sticks when they're launched and of course I'm going to have to buy them the same day they come out so I'll be zinged for the "Early Adopter Premium" bigtime. If they're really ridiculously priced then it might be an option to go with at least a single E5-2687WV2 and back down to DDR3. I'd really like to stick with the DDR4 though as the advantages over DDR3 are going to make Photoshop really sing.

Tsumi said:
Yes, eventually, but that would take at least a year or two for the price premiums to come down.
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I won't be able to wait for a month, let alone a year, unfortunately.

Ultima99 said:
Yep, best to wait and use all the shiny new stuff we'll have then.
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I'm like a kid waiting for Christmas morning... I can't wait any longer and I want it all NOW! :D
 
Which means anywhere from July to September.

Hopefully I can find a cheap 3930k or 4930k when it hits. I'm sticking with this system for a while.
 
Tsumi said:
Which means anywhere from July to September.

Hopefully I can find a cheap 3930k or 4930k when it hits. I'm sticking with this system for a while.
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I'll sell ya a 3930K cheap... nah... on the other hand, I wouldn't wish this Dell pile of junk on my worst enemy and I'd never sell it to a fellow [H]! ;)
 
I just want the processor, I already have a solid x79 system :p

Trade my 3820 for the 3930k? xD
 
LeftSide said:
Do you have any data to backup that statement? As far as I know Photoshop runs well in Windows and OSX.
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Just saw these posts, but "data to backup that statement"????

Geez relax dude. A lot of shops that use Photoshop are OS X shops. Might be useful to get familiar with that environment. Sorry, I do not have any data to back that up. Oh wait, my brother-in-law runs a studio and they use Photoshop in OS X. There is one data point. Happy? :D

Weeth said:
I've run Photoshop professionally for well over a decade and I haven't owned a Mac all that time. Yes, Photoshop is just as good on Win as it is on OSX.
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I do know that Photoshop runs in both OSes ;)

BTW, I am not suggesting that you change from Win to OS X. But since you were looking for things to think about for a build in the future, I just thought I would mention that some builds are more OS X friendly, meaning that should you wish to dual boot into OS X, NOT replace Win.

EDIT: On the same topic, when I consider a build I also make sure it is Linux friendly. Sorry, no data points on that either.
 
Tsumi said:
I just want the processor, I already have a solid x79 system :p

Trade my 3820 for the 3930k? xD
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I appreciate the offer but this system is going to go on eBay intact when I'm done with it and it will be good riddance.

SpeedyVV said:
I do know that Photoshop runs in both OSes ;)

BTW, I am not suggesting that you change from Win to OS X. But since you were looking for things to think about for a build in the future, I just thought I would mention that some builds are more OS X friendly, meaning that should you wish to dual boot into OS X, NOT replace Win.

EDIT: On the same topic, when I consider a build I also make sure it is Linux friendly. Sorry, no data points on that either.
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Sorry, didn't mean to insinuate that you weren't aware of the PC version of Adobe CS. As for Linux, I don't want to start a flame war and I apologize in advance to the Penguin clan, but I loaded Ubuntu on a system a couple of years ago just for the hell of it and just didn't "get it." Sure, I'm aware of Linux's various advantages over Win but the interface seemed so clunky and dated that I really couldn't find any use for it. I run a limited number of applications, they're all fine under Windows and although I am not blind to Microsoft's infinite faults, I'm sticking with it indefinitely.
 
Weeth said:
I appreciate the offer but this system is going to go on eBay intact when I'm done with it and it will be good riddance.



Sorry, didn't mean to insinuate that you weren't aware of the PC version of Adobe CS. As for Linux, I don't want to start a flame war and I apologize in advance to the Penguin clan, but I loaded Ubuntu on a system a couple of years ago just for the hell of it and just didn't "get it." Sure, I'm aware of Linux's various advantages over Win but the interface seemed so clunky and dated that I really couldn't find any use for it. I run a limited number of applications, they're all fine under Windows and although I am not blind to Microsoft's infinite faults, I'm sticking with it indefinitely.
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Windows is definitely my fav OS of all times. BTW, agree with your comments about Ubunto.

Oh, since I am in a kumbaya moment, 2011 has been my fav platform ever. I can't wait for some 8 core Haswell-e love in the future. unless what that Intel Engineer said about a 12 Core thing comes true. I would die for a 12 core size e-peen.
 
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