Started shopping for a HDTV, is a power cleaner (or conditioner) really a smart idea?

T

Tower

Gawd
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While browsing HDTVs at Best Buy today, the salesman I spoke with praised Power Cleaners as an "essential" for an individual purchasing an HDTV.

He mentioned that by storing electricity in capacitors, it sends an even, steady flow of electricity to the HDTV (or other sensitive electric components) that can improve the life of an HDTV by 20%.

I understand the premise behind a power conditioner, but my question is, are they really as valuable as the salesman made them appear? Will they truly enhance the picture and/or audio from my HTPCHDTV setup? And will they increase the lifespan of a TV?

Just wondering if this is a bunch of crap, or if it's really got some merit to it. :)
 
Alot of high end entusiasts often spend ALOT of money on after market power cords and filters and the such, usuall claiming it will provide a much better experience.

it does make sense, if the power coming to the device is fluctuating enough, i am sure it would afect the display, since the power would be dropping, i would think it would affect things like brightness - since the display after all is not getting the full power it needs to fucntions at %100.
 
Don't waste your money, and definately don't buy expensive cables. Also: that guy at best buy is about to makle a lot of commision if you buy the prism cleaner. Be smart, don't buy ANY cabling from best buy. Get your stuff from www.monoprice.com and btw gold plated doesn't mean a thing.

When people say they "hear" or "see" a difference it's all psychological because they are trying to make their purchase seem justified to themselves. Electricity flows the same, some insulation is necessary but monster cable and prism cleaners are just ways of bleeding more money from your wallet. An outlet cleaner is pointless, and will not make your signal better.
 
Thanks guys, that helps a lot. Sadly, I couldn't find much reading material about cleaners with Google.

Are they not prevalent, or is there simply not much material on the net about them?
 
Well, I don't know anything about power cleaners, but I can tell you that going from normal 16 gauge speaker wire to Monster Cable 16 gauge wire made a world of difference. I honestly didn't expect any sound change; I just wanted the wires to last longer. But the sound was clearer, and I got quite a bit more bass from my speakers.

Really surprised me. While I haven't used much else from Monster, I can honestly and truthfully recommend their cheapest line of speaker cable.

Here's a link to what I bought:
http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=300600&pfp=BROWSE
 
Hmm. Interesting.

More thoughts on cables and/or power cleaners/filters/conditioners?
 
Not that I like sending people to other forums, but www.avsforum.com will be a better place to go with a question like this. Don't be turned off by how ugly their website is (I was at first) because there is *a lot* of good info there.
 
As far as a power cleaner, just get an AVR. They cost $20-40 online and they will keep a steady voltage to your equipment.
 
Sorry, the AVR's you can get for that price do not carry the current needed for any lenght of time required for hdtv's (especially any projection display) to power down correctly. As to the origianal post, yes clean power units do help a bit and will extend the life of your tv, although I doubt it will be anything near the 20% he quoted unless your buying a JVC HD-ILA set, due to a VERY poor light bulb design (I've personally sent 6 different sets off of my sales floor to service due to the lamp being out, it got so bad that the JVC rep gave me a direct number to contact him so he could overnight me the bulbs.) Any way you look at it, most decent power filters have isolated circuits, which is the real key to improving your audio visual experience. Think about it, any time you have current passing through a conductor you create a magnetic field, and really bad fields are created by electrical motors (ie the motor spinning your dvd and that shiny player of yours,) so if you have an isolated circuit for that dvd player it will not allow EMI to pass through your power bar to the rest of the devices you may have connected to it. I dont get computer enthusiasts some times, they would be perfectly willing to spend $500 on a power supply for computers but wont spend $300 for a half way decent unit that basically does the same thing for your A/V gear, provide stable, clean power to the various devices you have.

Just for the record, I do work for Best Buy, and NO we dont work on commission, so I doubt he was trying to sell you a power cleaner just because he was going to make a quick buck at it. Mind you, he was probably uneducated as to what they actually do, but we are taught just the bare minimum these days.
 
It has to do with your power situation at your house to a good degree. I live in an apartment complex with shitty power and am running a large CRT HD RPTV, a high current amplifier, large full tower powered speakers, a big powered sub, and plenty of other gear that eats a lot of juice.

I never tried running the system without the power conditioner here, but at my last apartment complex, I could see a difference, it eliminated a flicker that I'd get in dark scenes without it. Would a cheaper surge protector have done the same thing? I don't know, with the amount I invested in all of the other gear it made sense to get something that I knew wouldn't let me down. I know for a fact that power flickers/minor brownouts that cause my unsurgeprotected microwave and alarm clock to reset themselves don't effect the HT system with the power conditioner on it, although anything for longer than a second will make it cycle power too.

For the record I have a MonsterPower HTS3500.
 
My reciever is highly affected by its power supply. Often times when there is a fluctuation in the power going to it, it shuts off to protect itself. This happens, say, if the AC cuts on or the fridge in my room. Its pretty irritating, and I think a conditioner might fix it.
 
Boltaction said:
Also: that guy at best buy is about to makle a lot of commision if you buy the prism cleaner.
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This is 100% false.
 
I don't have a power cleaner per se, what I have is an APC 1000 something or other UPS with some avr functionality. I have a rear projection LCD tv which I am trying to protect with this thing. I live in an apartment which has constant brown outs and black outs. I have read in numerous places that if you cut power suddenly to a really hot bulb in a projection tv, it can break, as the cooling fans stop running. Since the bulbs are so friggin expensive, I think the UPS was a good investment. It was about $150 which is a lot and a little depending on what you are looking at. I am glad I got it because I have heard the power outage alarm go off several times a day and I know it is helping keep my electronics alive. BTW, my amp and my htpc are also hooked in so I can properly shut them down if necessary.

oh and monoprice owns for cables. I have tested out monster, acoustic research, and generic cables. the generics were just as good as the monster on my system so I stayed with them. the only reason some of my cables are acoustic research is that I didn't discover monoprice until last year and a lot of the ht setup was pieced together several years ago.
 
Yea, i'll never undertsand all the hate directed towards power conditioners, regulators etc, i see it in every home theatre/computer forum i go to.

I say hate the marketing fluff, don't hate the product, some of us need need them pretty badly (i know i do).
 
Boltaction said:
Don't waste your money, and definately don't buy expensive cables. Also: that guy at best buy is about to makle a lot of commision if you buy the prism cleaner. Be smart, don't buy ANY cabling from best buy. Get your stuff from www.monoprice.com and btw gold plated doesn't mean a thing.

When people say they "hear" or "see" a difference it's all psychological because they are trying to make their purchase seem justified to themselves. Electricity flows the same, some insulation is necessary but monster cable and prism cleaners are just ways of bleeding more money from your wallet. An outlet cleaner is pointless, and will not make your signal better.
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Best Buy is non-commision based. Trust me, I know.


Regardless of the fact that I work at Best Buy, I would recommend getting one. A TV's gonna last you a few years, and it's been proven that fluctuating power cuts down a light bulb's lifespan - no, its not the same study where Monster proved that line conditioners make the light bulbs brighter.
 
It's not a bad idea to have a power conditioner, as there is a lot of dirty(noisy) power out there, but I'd shop around.

I'd also look around for cables. Some people swear by certain cables, but as long as they have quality connectors, they are all very similar. There is no reason to pay a boatload of money for monster speaker wires when lampcord of the same gauge is going to pass an identical electrical current. Some people swear it sounds different, but this mainly is due to humans perceiving things since they spend a good chunk of change.

My favorite are the power cords that some people pay thousands of dollars for. You know, I don't think 3-6ft. of copper is going to clean up miles and miles of potential noise.
 
Boltaction said:
When people say they "hear" or "see" a difference it's all psychological because they are trying to make their purchase seem justified to themselves. Electricity flows the same, some insulation is necessary but monster cable and prism cleaners are just ways of bleeding more money from your wallet. An outlet cleaner is pointless, and will not make your signal better.
Click to expand...


Exactly. There is an awful lot of voodoo in the high end audio, none of which could pass a double blind test.

If you want good signal, get the thickest gauge you can and use as long of a interconnect as you can find.
 
Wondernerd said:
Exactly. There is an awful lot of voodoo in the high end audio, none of which could pass a double blind test.

If you want good signal, get the thickest gauge you can and use as long of a interconnect as you can find.
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I tell my customers it's not gonna make things look and sound better (power conditioners, that is). I do tell them that it will help prolong the life of the lightbulb and the TV as a whole. With most DLP's costing $2000+, it's a worthy investment.
 
A good solution to this is to get a battery backup unit that runs completely off of the battery, and then the ac power just perpetually recharges the battery. This way you get the constant voltage of a battery unit, and the battery eats up any "dirty" power.

Full blown conditioners are a waste, and in all cases but analog signal cables (component video, audio RCA, etc), cables are a waste.

Analog signal cables don't need to be expensive either, just don't buy ultra-low end crap for these, as they are prone to suck up noise and such.
 
powercleaners are a waist of money. go ahead and thro out your money. every device, hdtv, st tv, radio all have capacitors in them. what would be better is if you had fluctuanting current or want some proctection go out and get a UPS, that will be the cleanest and most stable power you can get. by the way power will fluctuate ever so slightly and all devices are designed to handle this range.
 
Easykill1978 said:
powercleaners are a waist of money----if you had fluctuanting current or want some proctection go out and get a UPS, that will be the cleanest and most stable power you can get.
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Some UPS units have terrible isolation. There is no single solution to all the different power related anomolies, unless your willing to spend more cash, but that's where people begin falling for the marketing fluff i mentioned. Some people need isolation, some people need trim and buck, and others just want plain ole surge protection...

I happen to need all three types of protection, for different equipment equipment and reasons though.
 
If your home theater is worth less than $4,000 total, a power conditioner would be a complete waste of money. They're only useful once you get into more high end audio/video equipment which can be more sensitive and which the user can tune more precisely.
 
Lol, I just want my damn reciever to stop turning off when my fridge or AC cuts on. Will a power conditioner help this? It did it a lot in my dorm, and it still does it a lot here at home.
 
SJetski71 said:
Yea, i'll never undertsand all the hate directed towards power conditioners, regulators etc, i see it in every home theatre/computer forum i go to.

I say hate the marketing fluff, don't hate the product, some of us need need them pretty badly (i know i do).
Click to expand...

It is just the people who try to justify saving money to prove they didnt need to spend it (simply cause they usually just cant afford it) - or just blowing hot air out cause they like to read / hear themselves.
 
MrGuvernment said:
It is just the people who try to justify saving money to prove they didnt need to spend it (simply cause they usually just cant afford it) - or just blowing hot air out cause they like to read / hear themselves.
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You know, I'm bald. Have been for years, typical male pattern stuff. I shave my noggin, or keep it clipped very short, and was doing it long before bald or shaved was semi-fashionable.

It's not because I can't AFFORD Rogaine, Propecia, or whatever infomercial is selling the product of the month right now.

It's because they don't WORK, or at best, do very little for the typical male pattern baldness person.

Most power conditioners for people living in a modern American home are placebos...they're cheap to manufacture, high priced high margin low failure rate items that make retailers and suppliers a lot of money, selling to people who spend a lot of money otherwise on LUXURY audio and video equipment. Easy marks, the same ones who will spend $70 on a Monster TOSLINK cable when a $10 non-name cable will do the same job.

I'm sure you've heard the old sayings about "one born every minute", and a "fool and his money..." Then again, it's the fool's money, he can do with it what he damned well pleases, and if it makes him feel better, maybe it's worth it to the fool...whether he's spraying Ronco Hair-in-a-Can on his bald spot, or plugging in his $300 power conditioner.
 
killernoodle said:
Lol, I just want my damn reciever to stop turning off when my fridge or AC cuts on. Will a power conditioner help this? It did it a lot in my dorm, and it still does it a lot here at home.
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It works for mine. With the heat wave we've had come through here lately, and everyone in the apartment complex suddenly starting to use their AC units, there have been a lot more minor flickers in the power grid, I keep having to reset my damn alarm clock, but my HT system keeps going strong through them.

Actually, I just need to buy a little UPS for my alarm clock and be done with it.
 
Croak said:
I'm sure you've heard the old sayings about "one born every minute", and a "fool and his money..." Then again, it's the fool's money, he can do with it what he damned well pleases, and if it makes him feel better, maybe it's worth it to the fool...whether he's spraying Ronco Hair-in-a-Can on his bald spot, or plugging in his $300 power conditioner.
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:rolleyes:


not everyone can afford to buy a DLP/Plasma/LCD tv everytime it breaks. Where I live, we get quite a few surges in the power. I'm not trusing my 6,000 dollar TV to a 15 dollar surge protector.

I could be a fool and it could be the placebo effect - but knowing that my next door neighbor, who bought a pioneer elite last december with no line conditioner, has had to replace his tv twice already make me feel a hell of a lot better.

and before you say jack - yes they were attributed to surges.
 
rayman2k2 said:
:rolleyes:


not everyone can afford to buy a DLP/Plasma/LCD tv everytime it breaks. Where I live, we get quite a few surges in the power. I'm not trusing my 6,000 dollar TV to a 15 dollar surge protector.

I could be a fool and it could be the placebo effect - but knowing that my next door neighbor, who bought a pioneer elite last december with no line conditioner, has had to replace his tv twice already make me feel a hell of a lot better.

and before you say jack - yes they were attributed to surges.
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So his homeowners insurance covered it, right?

Let me guess, he doesn't own the place.

Now if home owners insurance would be rated depending on what surge protection I had, I'd buy a nice box to save cash on my insurance.
 
Liver said:
So his homeowners insurance covered it, right?

Let me guess, he doesn't own the place.

Now if home owners insurance would be rated depending on what surge protection I had, I'd buy a nice box to save cash on my insurance.
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it's still pending last time i checked (he owns the place)


his insurer cited "homeowner negligence" and I'm not sure what happened next.

homeowner negligence - how low is that?
 
Well, this hasn't really been conclusive, but it HAS been interesting to research.

I decided to purchase two UPS units through Newegg that provide constant power and surge/spike protection. I'm thinking these are probably the best bet as the battery acts as a filter for the electricity before it reaches my electronics.

Thanks for the input on the topic, everyone. :)
 
Tower said:
Well, this hasn't really been conclusive, but it HAS been interesting to research.

I decided to purchase two UPS units through Newegg that provide constant power and surge/spike protection. I'm thinking these are probably the best bet as the battery acts as a filter for the electricity before it reaches my electronics.

Thanks for the input on the topic, everyone. :)
Click to expand...


Now, I could be wrong, but I always thought that if 'bad' power goes into a battery, it stays in the battery...

...but i'm not sure...anyone know?
 
Not sure about that battery not filtering it, but I do know the best you'd probadly be able to get for filtering power is an online UPS.

What they do is convert the AC power from the wall into DC, and then back into AC. So you get a very nice and steady AC power source.
 
For anyone looking for a good bang for the buck power conditioner, I always start out with a Panamax 4310/4300 and go up from there. If you really are worried about power or just want teh best go with an Online UPS like was mentioned earlier. I prefer either APC's S10-S15 models on the low end of backup or the Furman Sound Online UPS on the high end.
 
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