Star Citizen: The Beginning of the End

Elios

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Messages
7,214
I'm tired off all the negative ignorant uninformed supposed gamers posting trash about star citizen.

there is no red flags

there is no warning signs

there is no roadblocks

there is no lack of progress.

all the people posting that the project is in trouble keeps alluding to trash posted by DS and the supporters of his delirium.
I am shocked so many people are backing DS propaganda with so little facts on the table

all the posts always infer to some kind of money trouble. or people abandoning ship or the one that really irks me the most .. that the game is just impossible.

well its all debunked trash
the truth is.

THE GAME IS JUST FINE.

this project has givien the public the most in depth coverage of if its development, of any video game ever made EVER.. one has to just go to star citizen web page read all the monthly progress reports

watch the chairman videos, around the verse videos , q for the dev videos, and the coutless other resouces produced by the project to know when and how that this game is coming together.

and guess what it is actually on time despite all the twisting of facts and pointing to release dates.
The scope was broadened by the backers knowing that it would prolong the game development time
those following the project know this because we voted for it by our dollars and in the thread discussing the very issue that we were becoming awfully ambitious. and you know what the backers said yes to the moon !! and beyond damn it because we want the best damn space sim ever.

so here we are . we have in game assets we have in game mechanics we have the start of a persistent universe we have dog fighting .

so yes there is something to show for all the time and money put into the game

those who keep trying to cast this project off as a failure scam or in trouble have deluded themselves with the propaganda flung about by DS. they lack the intelligence to fact find for themselves and instead regurgitate the lies of others repeatedly.
you would think people would want to see this project be completed so they could actually have something with merit to discuss . Instead they would rather declare the project a failure immediately after it just got started. seriously how long was it before people started posting the project was in trouble 2 years ? really 2 years to make a game talk about unrealistic expectations.
its sad really . that so many want to see this project fail. you would think that true gamers would be excited about this project . unfortunately the number of dissenters show that the gaming market is filled with some truly low life individuals who would rather poison projects and attempt to destroy others dreams.


regardless star citizen is not in trouble it is being developed just fine and everything is normal or as normal as game development can be.
hiring family and hiding it?
layoffs?

if everything is fine lets see the books!
 

Frankie

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 2, 2009
Messages
2,086
Many larger companies always hold the position of not replying to rumors. People speculate and share their ideas all the time, companies have no time to sit and cater to the reddit and facebook news source reading groups
Except he did respond to them. He just didn't deny them.

I'm tired off all the negative ignorant uninformed supposed gamers posting trash about star citizen.

there is no red flags

there is no warning signs

there is no roadblocks

there is no lack of progress.

all the people posting that the project is in trouble keeps alluding to trash posted by DS and the supporters of his delirium.
I am shocked so many people are backing DS propaganda with so little facts on the table

all the posts always infer to some kind of money trouble. or people abandoning ship or the one that really irks me the most .. that the game is just impossible.

well its all debunked trash
the truth is.

THE GAME IS JUST FINE.

this project has givien the public the most in depth coverage of if its development, of any video game ever made EVER.. one has to just go to star citizen web page read all the monthly progress reports

watch the chairman videos, around the verse videos , q for the dev videos, and the coutless other resouces produced by the project to know when and how that this game is coming together.

and guess what it is actually on time despite all the twisting of facts and pointing to release dates.
The scope was broadened by the backers knowing that it would prolong the game development time
those following the project know this because we voted for it by our dollars and in the thread discussing the very issue that we were becoming awfully ambitious. and you know what the backers said yes to the moon !! and beyond damn it because we want the best damn space sim ever.

so here we are . we have in game assets we have in game mechanics we have the start of a persistent universe we have dog fighting .

so yes there is something to show for all the time and money put into the game

those who keep trying to cast this project off as a failure scam or in trouble have deluded themselves with the propaganda flung about by DS. they lack the intelligence to fact find for themselves and instead regurgitate the lies of others repeatedly.
you would think people would want to see this project be completed so they could actually have something with merit to discuss . Instead they would rather declare the project a failure immediately after it just got started. seriously how long was it before people started posting the project was in trouble 2 years ? really 2 years to make a game talk about unrealistic expectations.
its sad really . that so many want to see this project fail. you would think that true gamers would be excited about this project . unfortunately the number of dissenters show that the gaming market is filled with some truly low life individuals who would rather poison projects and attempt to destroy others dreams.


regardless star citizen is not in trouble it is being developed just fine and everything is normal or as normal as game development can be.
You've got to be joking.
 

Merc1138

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 25, 2010
Messages
2,124
I'm tired off all the negative ignorant uninformed supposed gamers posting trash about star citizen.

there is no red flags

there is no warning signs

there is no roadblocks

there is no lack of progress.

all the people posting that the project is in trouble keeps alluding to trash posted by DS and the supporters of his delirium.
I am shocked so many people are backing DS propaganda with so little facts on the table

all the posts always infer to some kind of money trouble. or people abandoning ship or the one that really irks me the most .. that the game is just impossible.

well its all debunked trash
the truth is.

THE GAME IS JUST FINE.

this project has givien the public the most in depth coverage of if its development, of any video game ever made EVER.. one has to just go to star citizen web page read all the monthly progress reports

watch the chairman videos, around the verse videos , q for the dev videos, and the coutless other resouces produced by the project to know when and how that this game is coming together.

and guess what it is actually on time despite all the twisting of facts and pointing to release dates.
The scope was broadened by the backers knowing that it would prolong the game development time
those following the project know this because we voted for it by our dollars and in the thread discussing the very issue that we were becoming awfully ambitious. and you know what the backers said yes to the moon !! and beyond damn it because we want the best damn space sim ever.

so here we are . we have in game assets we have in game mechanics we have the start of a persistent universe we have dog fighting .

so yes there is something to show for all the time and money put into the game

those who keep trying to cast this project off as a failure scam or in trouble have deluded themselves with the propaganda flung about by DS. they lack the intelligence to fact find for themselves and instead regurgitate the lies of others repeatedly.
you would think people would want to see this project be completed so they could actually have something with merit to discuss . Instead they would rather declare the project a failure immediately after it just got started. seriously how long was it before people started posting the project was in trouble 2 years ? really 2 years to make a game talk about unrealistic expectations.
its sad really . that so many want to see this project fail. you would think that true gamers would be excited about this project . unfortunately the number of dissenters show that the gaming market is filled with some truly low life individuals who would rather poison projects and attempt to destroy others dreams.


regardless star citizen is not in trouble it is being developed just fine and everything is normal or as normal as game development can be.
Yeah OK Bob.
 

Pringle

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
3,564
I'm tired off all the negative ignorant uninformed supposed gamers posting trash about star citizen.

there is no red flags

there is no warning signs

there is no roadblocks

there is no lack of progress.

all the people posting that the project is in trouble keeps alluding to trash posted by DS and the supporters of his delirium.
I am shocked so many people are backing DS propaganda with so little facts on the table

all the posts always infer to some kind of money trouble. or people abandoning ship or the one that really irks me the most .. that the game is just impossible.

well its all debunked trash
the truth is.

THE GAME IS JUST FINE.

this project has givien the public the most in depth coverage of if its development, of any video game ever made EVER.. one has to just go to star citizen web page read all the monthly progress reports

watch the chairman videos, around the verse videos , q for the dev videos, and the coutless other resouces produced by the project to know when and how that this game is coming together.

and guess what it is actually on time despite all the twisting of facts and pointing to release dates.
The scope was broadened by the backers knowing that it would prolong the game development time
those following the project know this because we voted for it by our dollars and in the thread discussing the very issue that we were becoming awfully ambitious. and you know what the backers said yes to the moon !! and beyond damn it because we want the best damn space sim ever.

so here we are . we have in game assets we have in game mechanics we have the start of a persistent universe we have dog fighting .

so yes there is something to show for all the time and money put into the game

those who keep trying to cast this project off as a failure scam or in trouble have deluded themselves with the propaganda flung about by DS. they lack the intelligence to fact find for themselves and instead regurgitate the lies of others repeatedly.
you would think people would want to see this project be completed so they could actually have something with merit to discuss . Instead they would rather declare the project a failure immediately after it just got started. seriously how long was it before people started posting the project was in trouble 2 years ? really 2 years to make a game talk about unrealistic expectations.
its sad really . that so many want to see this project fail. you would think that true gamers would be excited about this project . unfortunately the number of dissenters show that the gaming market is filled with some truly low life individuals who would rather poison projects and attempt to destroy others dreams.


regardless star citizen is not in trouble it is being developed just fine and everything is normal or as normal as game development can be.
I'm printing this post, and taping it next to my monitor. It may take 5 years, but this shit will come back to haunt you. lol
 

flashoverride

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
496
You can blame Freelancer on Microsoft though.
Blame what? The game coming out at all? Yep.

Left up to CR, that ishboo may never have seen the light of day.

Some people are awesome creative directors but terrible CEOs. Gotta ship a product at the end of the day.

As for another publisher picking this up if it tanks, why would they? All the people who are prime customers have already backed the project, so there's no additional revenue there - most of them will have spent all they're willing to spend. Attracting new customers? The Space Sim genre isn't a hugely popular genre. It's one of my favorites, but it's not the most popular genre by any stretch of the imagination. In the meantime, your competitors have already beat you to market with Elite: Dangerous, Eve Online, etc.

The one thin I hope this does is focus CR on finishing the game. I'm super concerned because instead of a two line professional press release, he personally came out with a huge rant where he attacks everyone and accuses them of being shills. I don't need Derek Smart - or anyone else for that matter - to tell me that CR always over-promises and under-delivers. No, CR, you've told me that repeatedly throught history yourself by your own actions.

Although you did grace us with that cinematic masterpiece - Wing Commander: The Movie.
 

Advil

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Messages
1,875
Holy crap, revisionist history anyone?

Why are we listening to Derek Smart and using him to whip Chris Roberts? That's insane.

And it's revisionist as all hell to try to say he doesn't complete projects. You can lay that same circular blame argument on virtually every game developer who ever made a game under a publisher. Game developer tries to do x,y and z. Publisher at some point says "enough, x and y are good enough, ship without z."

To suddenly say that BECAUSE he's crowd funding without a publisher he's doomed is... just pointless?

What was wrong with the Wing Commander games? What was really wrong with Freelancer back in it's day? That game was way the hell ahead of it's time. Perhaps, if CR had been given another year and a bunch more money from MS the game might have reached full potential but it was still damn good. Privateer? Strike Commander?

Yeah, he really screwed things up.

Am I now crossing over into standing up for him? Well, at the moment, hell yes I am.

None of this was an issue until Derek Smart, Destroyer of Companies came along with a chip on his shoulder and a hurt butt that CR is making the game he originally wanted to do but didn't have the time, skill, vision or manpower to make.

Why are we still listening to anything he says? He's a professional TROLL.

If Star Citizen runs out of money, we'll find out won't we? There's no signs of the company failing other than the manufactured crap from the troll brigade.

If you follow the website and you read the development posts, see the pics, watch the videos that come out continuously you can plainly see a team that is working hard on a game.

What the hell else is there to say? They're working on tech and gameplay that's a bit unique and it takes YEARS to get it done.

How does "they missed a few assumed deadlines" equate to "game is doomed?" Especially when it's coming from a group of professional trolls?

Shouldn't we still be rooting for Star Citizen's success rather than hoping it fails so we can watch it burn?

I WANT some modern PC games, new genres, tech that pushes my hardware until it cries. Not just more cookie cutter games that come out of EA studios.

Damn, you want to see slow, messed up development... look at DayZ. That's a lot of money that never turned into ANYTHING.
 

Advil

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Messages
1,875
I'm printing this post, and taping it next to my monitor. It may take 5 years, but this shit will come back to haunt you. lol
No it won't. Because he's exactly right. You don't get to say "I told you so" 5 years from now because if they company makes it 5 more years and fails it won't be because they were burning money too fast today (current accusation) it will be because something else down the line does it in, and we will have gotten to see it all happen between here and there.

The biggest potential stopper they will face is if they consume the money before they get the systems in place to quickly build art assets. They can't make every star system by hand from scratch. They know that. Right now they are trying to make the assets so they can be quickly put together in different configurations to make additional areas much faster and less intensive to make. If they can get that done, and they can get over the game engine hurdles in the next 12 months, they'll make it.
 

PersonalJ

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 2, 2010
Messages
1,795
I'm tired off all the negative ignorant uninformed supposed gamers posting trash about star citizen.

there is no red flags

there is no warning signs

there is no roadblocks

there is no lack of progress.

all the people posting that the project is in trouble keeps alluding to trash posted by DS and the supporters of his delirium.
I am shocked so many people are backing DS propaganda with so little facts on the table

all the posts always infer to some kind of money trouble. or people abandoning ship or the one that really irks me the most .. that the game is just impossible.

well its all debunked trash
the truth is.

THE GAME IS JUST FINE.

this project has givien the public the most in depth coverage of if its development, of any video game ever made EVER.. one has to just go to star citizen web page read all the monthly progress reports

watch the chairman videos, around the verse videos , q for the dev videos, and the coutless other resouces produced by the project to know when and how that this game is coming together.

and guess what it is actually on time despite all the twisting of facts and pointing to release dates.
The scope was broadened by the backers knowing that it would prolong the game development time
those following the project know this because we voted for it by our dollars and in the thread discussing the very issue that we were becoming awfully ambitious. and you know what the backers said yes to the moon !! and beyond damn it because we want the best damn space sim ever.

so here we are . we have in game assets we have in game mechanics we have the start of a persistent universe we have dog fighting .

so yes there is something to show for all the time and money put into the game

those who keep trying to cast this project off as a failure scam or in trouble have deluded themselves with the propaganda flung about by DS. they lack the intelligence to fact find for themselves and instead regurgitate the lies of others repeatedly.
you would think people would want to see this project be completed so they could actually have something with merit to discuss . Instead they would rather declare the project a failure immediately after it just got started. seriously how long was it before people started posting the project was in trouble 2 years ? really 2 years to make a game talk about unrealistic expectations.
its sad really . that so many want to see this project fail. you would think that true gamers would be excited about this project . unfortunately the number of dissenters show that the gaming market is filled with some truly low life individuals who would rather poison projects and attempt to destroy others dreams.


regardless star citizen is not in trouble it is being developed just fine and everything is normal or as normal as game development can be.
No red flags? How about the fact the game has been in development since 2011 and we still have essentially nothing to play?
 

dvsman

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 2, 2009
Messages
3,153
I don't have any skin in this game but I thought the game looked interesting when I first heard of it. The thing about Chris Roberts that I remember, is that all of those old Wing Commander (& related) games were done under Richard Garriott / Lord British's company (Origin systems or something like that IIRC). Chris might have been the project lead but he still had to answer to the guys at corporate, including Lord British. That's the difference between then and now where he doesn't have to answer to anyone at all.

In the corporate world, I've dealt with project managers who keep moving goal posts when something new and shiny comes up mid-stream and they just absolutely have to add it in. Those are the projects you know will have problems - either ending up like crap or not finishing at all.
 

Blade-Runner

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
3,291
He's probably really good at spotting the same thing happening in another game then, eh?
No, he is the last person I would trust to pass judgment on ANYTHING, let alone game related development. The irony seems to be completely lost on people who champion him as the savior of the poor down trodden backers, just about EVERYTHING he complains about he is guilty of having done himself.

Most of the lackeys aligning themselves with him appear to have no knowledge of his history, but because he spouts the gamergate line they are happy to ignorantly gobble up everything he says. If we were talking about some other knowledgeable and respected developer then that would be one thing, but Derek Smart has absolutely no credibility whatsoever in my eyes.

That's not to say I don't think CiG should have gone about things differently, it should have focused on delivering SQ42 first and foremost and developed the PU around that so backers at least have something to show for their contributions. But you know what, I am not a game developer but I can appreciate that its pretty fucking hard and complex work, so who am I to judge. Games take a long time to put together and are often delayed or miss milestones, the difference between this and publisher backed games is that the public seldom know about the delays until they occur following the game actually being announced.

And for some additional irony, here is an actual former and identifiable employee airing grievances about Smart.

https://web.archive.org/web/20090506091528/http://mediaramas.com/ds/
https://vimeo.com/mediaramas
 

Stiler

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
10,538
Really? Isn't this kind of like the pot calling the kettle black?

I seriously do not get why people are all the sudden jumping on this bandwagon of wanting to bring Star Citizen down.

Its a AAA game that is just 3 years into full development.

Most AAA games take 5'ish or more years to complete. IE Fallout, GTA, Witcher, etc.


Well, it looks like you guys already have my position on Derek Smart's credibility totally pegged. Battlecruiser 3000AD was garbage. Derek Smart is right up there with John Romero in my pantheon of failed game creators who deserve no respect.

Now, saying that, I'm not sure that he's totally wrong in this case. Chris Roberts hasn't produced a game in a long time and the scope is pretty enormous. They're also missed a bunch of deadlines.
John Romero? I don't get the hate.

He helped make:
Doom
Quake
Commander Keen
Heretic
Hexen
Blake Stone
etc.

Then he goes and makes a single bad game (Daikatana) and got so much hate for it.

Sorry, but every good designer, just like every good author, film maker, etc will have a bad creation here and there. Name me one single game designer that hasn't mad ea bad game? Will Wright, Sid Mierer, etc have all had their ups and downs and none of them get the hate that Romero gets.
 

PersonalJ

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 2, 2010
Messages
1,795
umm maybe design wise but production probably did not start until 2013.
The Kickstarter demo that was shown was clearly a year of work as quoted by Chris Roberts himself. I backed the game in October of 2012, development started in 2011.
 

Pringle

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
3,564
Its a AAA game that is just 3 years into full development.

Most AAA games take 5'ish or more years to complete. IE Fallout, GTA, Witcher, etc.
None of the games you mentioned were funded with $90 million of public donations and didn't have a CEO that hasn't done anything of note in the last 12 years, who hired their actress wife to head up the HR and Marketing departments.

So yeah.
 

Advil

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Messages
1,875
We aren't committing blind loyalty here dangit!

It's a highly informed opinion and the weird desire to armchair quarterback a game that's only part way through development and on top of that to PREFER a reality TV-style drama to actually seeing the game get done is depressing as hell.

It's like you're all saying "This HAS to have more drama or it can't really be happening."

I want the GAME, not the drama. We backed Chris and his company to make the game. Our choice to hand HIM the money to do with as he sees fit.

Can we let Cloud Imperium Gaming get on with their attempt without having to turn it into a soap opera? Let's see if they succeed or fail at making the game... not succeed or fail at providing enough drama to keep everyone entertained. I don't find this kind of stuff entertaining. I'm involved with sporting organizations where this kind of crap happens far too often. There are real people getting hurt when gossip goes out of control and when raw spots from people leaving get intentionally and pointlessly rubbed into being angry sores. Just going through this costs the company resources and endless hours of attention that the top execs need to be spending on the GAME rather than this dreg.

This mess is being manufactured externally. Not internally. You think every employee is going to be happy when they leave? You can't have that happen with only a small company with only 5 people let alone when you pay dozens and have hundreds of contractors.
 

drakken

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 19, 2004
Messages
1,196
well shadow run was kickstarted twice or three times all to make a game that is fun, a couple other games were successful... I do not know if star citizen will flop or succeed only time will tell but most people put money into the game because the ships looked cool and you could see them in their game engine. Of course some people kickstarted it because they were offering to add ships people were building on their own, then it because contest for a small group then no one has heard anything since most of the ship simply did not live up to the standards of the ships people were buying... I would guess that those designers who used old school low poly standards are some of the current biggest detractors of the game. As to designers arguing I would compare eve online and star citizen both are going the same direction and both have their pros and cons.
 

Deathroned

Gawd
Joined
Mar 6, 2015
Messages
554
I take it you're one of the ones with thousands invested since you get so damn butt hurt every time someone even thinks about saying something negative about this clusterfuck.
Lmao wow i have zilch invested in this game good to know you can read minds. The only butt hurt are the likes of you and i am thinking you are american and a liberal.
 

Deathroned

Gawd
Joined
Mar 6, 2015
Messages
554
umm maybe design wise but production probably did not start until 2013.
chaos leave them be. Its like talking to brick walls dumb uninformed brick walls. I told em in the other thread the actual game has been in dev for a year 6 months and got attacked.
 

Wildace

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 16, 2004
Messages
6,721
The Kickstarter demo that was shown was clearly a year of work as quoted by Chris Roberts himself. I backed the game in October of 2012, development started in 2011.
you do realize that was a video, not actual gameplay? which was built purely for kickstarter to show the idea, pretty much none of that was actually used to make the game other than references, the bengal carrier and other ship models were just low quality low poly versions.

actual physical production did not start until after kickstarter, i mean they had some stuff nailed down lore wise and such but its not really but they did not start real production until they actually had some money, and then they were still just a tiny team as well, and have had to build the studios around the world and ramp up hiring employees ect and scaling.

Full scale production like didnt take place until 2013 some time.

If they had the 261 employees back in 2011 and all the studios set up, and the funding to operate them like they do now, things would be very different than they are now. We would likely already be in the PU in some form. Ramp up takes time tho. It can also take time for people to transition to the work flow or other misc things that can be overlooked by looking through the window from the outside.

So while yes technically production started in 2011 when chris put the kickstarter team together and he started funding the project out of pocket to make a video for kickstarter in cryengines director tools, that is just not the same thing as full scale production.

A company like DICE Already has their teams built and they just move them around from project to project as they complete and likely don't really need to build teams completely from scratch any more so they are more likely able to push a rehash/reskinned game out the door in 2 years, its just not possible to expect a crowed funded game that started with nothing to do the same in a similar time frame especially when they are actually wanting to make a unique experience something no other game offers.
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
56,225
Actually, I do need something to know that something is wrong with the project.

The whole point of giving CR money up front for this "game" was because:
(a) Nobody was making these space sim games anymore and we wanted one; and
(b) We trusted CR's vision for the game.

If either of the above points didn't apply to you, or you "pledged" more than you were willing to lose, then you should not have given money to CiG. The game is late but that is hardly an indication of crippling financial problems; it just means it's late. I'm certainly not giving them any more money, but until evidence is produced that we won't be getting a game I'm going to assume we're getting a game. All of this "then why doesn't he deny it?!" stuff is (currently) just unsupported fear/worry/anger, because at the end of the day CR doesn't answer to any of us or to a publisher, and he can say as much or as little as he wants.
I can understand the need for proof before proclaiming doom and gloom. But, there have been layoffs and massive delays. I'm sorry but a delay of two to three years for a single player mission based game such as Squadron 42 is unacceptable and very wrong. This is the main thing that has me concerned. Games get delayed all the time but two or three year delays indicate a significant problem at Cloud Imperium Games. When there is an apparent lack of progress. This usually boils down to funding, lack of talent, or gross incompetence from management.

You get turn over from staff when they aren't getting paid or the work environment is so unpleasant that staff often quit and seek other employment. You get lay offs and downsizing due to a lack of financial resources. So far Star Citizen has raised 90 fucking million dollars. There is no reason on this Earth that Squadron 42 shouldn't be complete, or at least totally funded by this point. This points to gross mismanagement of financial and other resources. Huge triple A titles are released all the time with budgets smaller than 50 million dollars. A two or three year development cycle is pretty standard for such games. A year long delay wouldn't have even surprised me given the engine and some of the things they need to build into it in order to connect to other modules that have been proposed. But the smart play would have been to get Squadron 42 out, get people playing it and enjoying the universe that is established by it. At that point getting additional funding from either a large publisher or additional crowd funding would be easy. The studio would have produced something and would secure confidence from backers.

If this game is going to take another two or three years assuming CIG can keep the game funded, then it tells me that very little has actually been accomplished up to this point. Based on what we've "seen" from CIG thus far I have to conclude that some preliminary work has been done but most of what's been shown was largely for the purpose of raising capital and nothing more. If you look at their own website for progress reports it seems their efforts are all over the map. Right now there is a ton of hype and seemingly much work being done on the Star Marine module. This indeed indicates a lack of focus. There shouldn't be a Star Marine, or much if any work done on it prior to seeing Squadron 42. This again is gross mismanagement and a clear lack of project direction.

Let's look at the "Star Marine Teaser." Well we know Teasers are generally short, but if you want to look at this as some indication of progress, congratulations you've been suckered. I used to work at an Art College that taught computer animation. I saw incredible demos put together in just 11 weeks from start to finish that were much longer than this one. Those were three or more minutes at least. So if you want to call this proof of content development then I've got news for you, one guy could have done this in a short time. Virtually everything that happens in this teaser takes place in the same section of hallway from different perspectives. The animation is really rough in it as well. This looks very much thrown together to me.

When I saw the first video from Chris Roberts I really liked what I heard. I knew that his vision for the game was a goal that was going to be difficult if not impossible to attain. I figured at the very least he'd get Squadron 42 out and then build upon it. That is after all what he said would happen in the original presentation. I threw in the $45 in the hopes of seeing my favorite genre revitalized. Again I hoped to see Squadron 42 at the very least. I figured if Chris Roberts could even deliver half what he said he could we would be in for a real treat and I thought that deserved a chance.

What will be a two to three year delay of Squadron 42 and progress reports which are all over the map. This shows a lack of direction and a lack of focus. This is all the proof I need to indicate that something is wrong at Cloud Imperium Games. In my opinion this focus on Star Marine is smoke and mirrors deflecting the fact that Squadron 42 doesn't exist in any real form beyond the Arena Commander. Space combat should be the primary objective as this is what got everyone excited and it's how the ships everyone keeps buying will get used. So why work on fucking Star Marine? The reason is simple: It's called deflection. Again if Chris Roberts had a clue what he was doing at this point he would have built Star Citizen by now. Even with a year delay he should be able to show the world 15 minutes of game play and prove that the game actually exists. I will bet a Core i7 5960X or a Titan X that Chris Robert can't show 15 minutes of continuous linear, and interactive game play from either Star Marine or Squadron 42 in a reasonably "healthy" stage of development. I am not talking about a video either. He needs to sit someone reputable in the media down and turn them loose on this "game" for 15 minutes and let them play through it. Obviously it doesn't necessarily need to be from the "beginning" of the game, but surely after 4 years of dev work there are lengthy sections of the game which are playable.

I want to see the game fired up, with partial menus, completed levels, some semblance of story, (or some ground work for it) and somewhat functional AI. Basically if the game isn't as complete as that E3 Doom 3 alpha that leaked several years ago then it will be pretty easy to discern the truth. Star Citzen exists as little more than a concept, and Star Marine / Squadron 42 don't exist either. If that's the case, then what the fuck happened to the 90 million dollars?

Mass Effect Andromeda began development in 2011-2012 and should release in Q4 2016. I can almost guarantee we will see that game before a complete portion of Star Citizen is released. And I'd wager the former will be a longer and more complex gaming experience. You don't need the articles, or to have even heard of Darek Smart to know something has gone wrong at CIG. The proof is in the company's own actions. Basically after four years there is nothing of substance to really see. There is no concrete release date and projections are well into 2016 or beyond for a game / module that should have been done a year ago. The developer seems to be concentrating on things in no particular order which shows that CIG lacks clear direction, development and even vision. If you think that means everything's okay then I have some beach front property on Mars I'd like to talk to you about.
 

Phoenix333

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
3,510
I'm sorry but a delay of two to three years for a single player mission based game such as Squadron 42 is unacceptable and very wrong.
Delays? So what?

Doom 3 was delayed, yet we got a game.
Doom (4) was delayed, yet people aren't saying it's dead.

Do I detect bias? Yes. Name me one game that's ever hit a release date that was announced early on that didn't release with a crap load of bugs, and tell me why games like Doom 3 can get a pass for taking 5 years and the next Doom has been in development hell and rebooted at least once. I remember when Star Citizen was first announced there was zero coverage of it here. A PC game for PC gamers, crowdfunded, and the resurrection of the Space Sim as a genre. An ambitious goal right when everyone has been complaining loudest of bad console ports and lamenting the lack of PC-centric games. I even wrote to Steve about it. Nope, zero coverage. CIG hit stretch goal after stretch goal, became the largest crowdfunded endeavor on record... still no coverage. It took you three freaking years to even acknowledge CIG existed and you want to criticize over delays? That's rich. It's only when this specific bit of controversy sprang up that the [H] has paid any attention to it outside of some people commenting in the forums, and what's the evidence? A hit piece by The Escapist?

I can tell you what the problem is. People are looking at that $90 million mark. That's the only reason anyone is pouncing on CIG and taking these accusations at face value. Big money attracts a lot of attention and of course in this clickbait soundbite generation once an accusation of wrongdoing is leveled it's automatically true because "everyone's a crook". Chris Roberts must be guilty because "OMG MONEY", and there's zero chance that he just might be telling the truth, and if you disagree with the lynch mob you get pinned as some kind of zealot. Sure, Star Citizen might crash and burn, but I'll believe that when there's actual substantive evidence.

This site used to run by PC enthusiasts for PC enthusiasts. Now the [H] is giving front-page to Derek Smart with a headline like that. Tell Kyle if I had paid $60.00 for a subscription I'd want it back. I don't come here for tabloid journalism.
 

Phoenix333

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
3,510
Alright, I should correct that. You did post the video montage from SXSW and footage from the first-person stuff in 2014. I'm sure someone will jump on me for forgetting about that... not like the flies in the forum won't do that anyway just on principle.
 

tlkimball

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
330
All of the tantrums and all of the Derek Smart hate isn't going to change anything. Star Citizen is a train wreck and Chris Roberts was sleeping in the locomotive.

I've got money in this thing. Quite a few of us do. At some point, we all have to accept that our money is gone: Down the drain or up CR's nose.

There is NO REASON for Squadron 42 to be MIA. It should be nearly complete by now. Elite Dangerous is already getting DLC while we see nothing of SQ42.

Regardless that he is a force of negativity, Derek Smart has seen this coming for quite some time. The rest of us have to accept that.

Still, I hope he is wrong.
 

Dekoth-E-

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
7,599
I'm going to be blunt, this game is developing a strong duke nukem forever vibe. I say that as someone who hasn't read a thing ds wrote, nor do I even care. I base it purely of the time frame, budget and complete lack of any real content shown.

This is coming from someone who essentially has no stake in this. I love games like this, but I resent CIG for turning it into a whip out your credit card and buy what you want type of game. While I think some of the info being thrown around is exaggerated, I also think those blindly defending it are seriously deluding themselves if they aren't concerned.
 

Pringle

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
3,564
Soooo after 4+ years of development, and 90+ million dollars, where's the playable demo for press? All i see are short scripted teasers.

Im sure they'll do a short playthrough at CitizenCon, right? Their own event designed to showcase the progress theyve made after all of these 4+ years? Or can we expect what they have normally done with these things; showcase another prescripted teaser announcing another 'limited time only' ship for hundreds of dollars?
 

dvsman

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 2, 2009
Messages
3,153
I just read the post by the one of the graphics designers who left and it was not a hate-filled CR bash that I was expecting it to be, but it did reveal / support some things I had already heard / read from other posts here and that was this: The graphics team would finish a character model, have it approved then some time later, CR would come back in and shoot it down / dis-approve / un-approve it. And this happened repeatedly multiple times and was why the guy eventually left CIG.

I'm a big fan of CR's old-school stuff from back in the day but there is a reason why artists don't make great leaders. Being subject to the whims of your artistic muse instead of reality (schedules / timeliness) and dollars and cents will doom any project.
 

Blade-Runner

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
3,291
I'm going to be blunt, this game is developing a strong duke nukem forever vibe. I say that as someone who hasn't read a thing ds wrote, nor do I even care. I base it purely of the time frame, budget and complete lack of any real content shown.
Comparing this to DNF is hyperbolism at its finest, Star Citizen has been in development for 3 years.....DNF took 15 years with nothing to show for it in the intervening period. Maybe in another 5 years DNF will be a valid analogy. As it stands, SC has shown a hell of a lot more content than DNF ever did in the decade leading up to its notorious release.
 

Dekoth-E-

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
7,599
Comparing this to DNF is hyperbolism at its finest, Star Citizen has been in development for 3 years.....DNF took 15 years with nothing to show for it in the intervening period. Maybe in another 5 years DNF will be a valid analogy. As it stands, SC has shown a hell of a lot more content than DNF ever did in the decade leading up to its notorious release.
I wasn't aware I needed to teach basic English in accordance with my post. Developing a vibe isn't directly comparing, it's only saying there are early warning signs that may or may not turn into anything tangible. Take the fanboy knee-jerk reactions elsewhere, thanks.
 

Blade-Runner

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
3,291
The fact that you reference DNF is of itself a comparison to said subject. Better go retake those basic English classes before you attempt to impart your ignorance to others.
 

Pringle

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
3,564
God i cant wait for citizencon. What time today is this train wreck glorified backer fundraiser happening today?
 

Time2Kill

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 10, 2005
Messages
1,169
Comparing this to DNF is hyperbolism at its finest, Star Citizen has been in development for 3 years.....DNF took 15 years with nothing to show for it in the intervening period. Maybe in another 5 years DNF will be a valid analogy. As it stands, SC has shown a hell of a lot more content than DNF ever did in the decade leading up to its notorious release.
Do you even know what you're talking about?

DNF released several trailers during its development. The problem was Broussard never felt the game was enough and kept scrapping the entire game to move to newer engines. The game was even demoed at different E3s on different engines.

The way this game is going and with CRs ego/attitude, I can see it following the exact same path that DNF/Broussard followed.
 

Dekoth-E-

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
7,599
The fact that you reference DNF is of itself a comparison to said subject. Better go retake those basic English classes before you attempt to impart your ignorance to others.
Read times post before you embarrass yourself further.
 

Frankie

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 2, 2009
Messages
2,086
chaos leave them be. Its like talking to brick walls dumb uninformed brick walls. I told em in the other thread the actual game has been in dev for a year 6 months and got attacked.
What do you think an appropriate response to your nonsense is? Everyone knows the game has been in development far longer than 18 months.
 
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