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SSD Noob questions
- Thread starter jctess87
- Start date
Old Hippie
Supreme [H]ardness
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- Oct 31, 2005
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- 6,013
Yep!
Not really.
Do a fresh OS install and have fun.
Windows should automatically turn off defrag for an SSD - but it doesn't hurt to check the scheduler and make sure the SSD is checked off (grayed out). No need to trun of the defragged completely, especially if you have spinning drives as well.
Not for SSDs, since they all do internal remapping for wear leveling defraging has no benefit, and wouldn't work in any case. Plus, the purpose of defraging is to reduce seek times by putting files together, but SSDs have virtually no seek time, so no compelling need to defrag.
notalent420
Limp Gawd
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- Aug 15, 2004
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- 351
Plus the point of defragging on regular HDDs is so that all the data is lined up together. With SSDs it doesn't matter where the file is since it can nearly instantly retrieve it.
How do you do that exactly?
I had a giftcard with amazon for $50 + this drive was $55 cash back so I got it VERY cheap.
Fresh install is best, but not required. Put whatever you want to be fast on the SSD - so the OS and commonly used apps or games. You can use symbolic links to move stuff back and forth between the SSD and HDD seamlessly - I use Link Shell Extension to make it easy.
Ragemaster
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2003
- Messages
- 146
In Windows, symbolic links are usually referred to as "shortcuts." You can make symlinks on your OS/SSD drive point to applications on a slower magnetic drive with more storage.
Symlinks are NOT refered to as shortcuts, shortcuts are a completely different beast. Shortcuts on your desktop point to applications or document and contain startup configuration details. Links created by Link Shell Extention are interpreted by the OS as actual files or directories (same as links under unix if you're familiar with ln). Hard links give multiple file system enteries to the same physical data, modifying one modifies all, however hard links are limited to being in the same physical volume, you can't spam volumes with them. Symbolic links are like file pointers and can refer to files or folders on any volume or even on network shares.
An example use for hard links are say you want to have 2 game installs but the game stores its settings in its directory structure. Make hard links to the game files that will be common between the two installs and make copies of the game config files. This gives you effectively 2 installs with the disk space of one.
An example of using symbolic links is say your SSD is NOT your main drive, and all your applications are already installed to a traditional HDD. Moving your game by copying the folder to the SSD would break a bunch of registry settings, and leaving a traditional shortcut like on your desktop in the folder where your game should be won't help things either. So you copy the game folder from your C: drive to your SSD, delete the original, then use LSE to "drop" a symbolic link of that folder where the original was. Since symlinks are an OS feature and 100% transparent to applications, things would still work 100% just faster since you're on an SSD.
An advanced example is say you have a game that you want to be as fast as possible, has one frequently used (say character and creature models and textures), smallish (2GB) data file and several much larger data files that are accessed less frequently (levels). You install this to your SSD but you want to be able to take a bunch of high resolution pictures but don't want them clogging up your expensive SSD space, you also want to be able to change settings quickly to record video from time to time. So here's what you could do:
Install to SSD.
Hard link to game files in a second folder (symlink any subfolders), except for anything config related.
Make a 2GB ram disk for your character/creature data file and copy it there, setup symlink to old location.
Create a symlink in place of your screenshot folder pointing to a second hard drive or even a network share on a server.
Now you can play 2 copies of the game with different settings, with the one important file in a blazing fast RAM drive, and your screenshots are automatically archived to data disk or even file server, and as far as the game can tell nothing changed from the original install since everything is handled at the OS level.
An example use for hard links are say you want to have 2 game installs but the game stores its settings in its directory structure. Make hard links to the game files that will be common between the two installs and make copies of the game config files. This gives you effectively 2 installs with the disk space of one.
An example of using symbolic links is say your SSD is NOT your main drive, and all your applications are already installed to a traditional HDD. Moving your game by copying the folder to the SSD would break a bunch of registry settings, and leaving a traditional shortcut like on your desktop in the folder where your game should be won't help things either. So you copy the game folder from your C: drive to your SSD, delete the original, then use LSE to "drop" a symbolic link of that folder where the original was. Since symlinks are an OS feature and 100% transparent to applications, things would still work 100% just faster since you're on an SSD.
An advanced example is say you have a game that you want to be as fast as possible, has one frequently used (say character and creature models and textures), smallish (2GB) data file and several much larger data files that are accessed less frequently (levels). You install this to your SSD but you want to be able to take a bunch of high resolution pictures but don't want them clogging up your expensive SSD space, you also want to be able to change settings quickly to record video from time to time. So here's what you could do:
Install to SSD.
Hard link to game files in a second folder (symlink any subfolders), except for anything config related.
Make a 2GB ram disk for your character/creature data file and copy it there, setup symlink to old location.
Create a symlink in place of your screenshot folder pointing to a second hard drive or even a network share on a server.
Now you can play 2 copies of the game with different settings, with the one important file in a blazing fast RAM drive, and your screenshots are automatically archived to data disk or even file server, and as far as the game can tell nothing changed from the original install since everything is handled at the OS level.
@-Dragon- > Thank you for the information, it was informative, but it has also left me with more questions now as well. I've never heard of symlinks before now honestly, and therefore have no experience with setting them up, etc.My SSD will be my main drive once I receive it (it should be here tomorrow). However as it is very little space, I'm obviously hoping to avoid taking up space there if possible, however I do want to get the best performance possible with my games and other applications as well as anyone else would. I want to run something by you and see if this is all possible, and perhaps gain some insight on the best way to do all of this if you'd be willing to help me, and explain this in detail. #1: I plan to reinstall windows as this has been recommended to me from many sources, however I'd like to not lose all of my settings, documents, etc. What is the best way to go about this? #2: What is the best way to go about creating symlinks, as I've said I knew nothing about them until it was previously mentioned. What files should I symlink or whatever for games etc etc? If you don't want to go into detail as I'll most likely need that is understandable, could you perhaps point me to a good guide that explains everything thoroughly to complete this whole process? Thank you.
The easiest way to use symlinks is to use the Link Shell Extension (http://schinagl.priv.at/nt/hardlinkshellext/hardlinkshellext.html). You can then copy the files from the SSD to the HDD, and then use the LSE to drop a junction point on the SSD at the location where the files were originally. That way all the programs think the files are still on the SSD, but they are actually on the HDD. Then, if you want to put the game (for example) back on the SSD you just delete the junction point and copy the files back to the SSD. IT sounds complicated, but it is actually super easy, and works seamlessly.
And I believe that technically hard links and junction points are different, even though both are symbolic links. The one you want to use for moving files off the SSD is actually junction points, which looks like a file or folder on the SSD, but is actually mapped to the HDD.
And I believe that technically hard links and junction points are different, even though both are symbolic links. The one you want to use for moving files off the SSD is actually junction points, which looks like a file or folder on the SSD, but is actually mapped to the HDD.
From the link
Note LSE is in active development but for me personally upgrading isn't really a huge priority since nothing the author does can change base functionality, they're mostly UI improvements. LSE itself adds nothing to the base functionality of windows, only exposes the API for easier use by end users. Hard links are used extensively in the windows folder, specifically in relation to the WinSXS folder which is the repository for all the apps and libraries and any other instance of them in the windows sub directories are just hard links to the files in that location, which is why some people think that Win7 (and maybe vista I forget if vista used winsxs) takes up a huge amount of HD space, twice the amount it actually takes up. Symlinks and junctions are used extensively in the user directories to point to your document, music, picture, etc... files. The "change location" tab for these special folders is just a way to change the symlink or junction.
So yeah, junctions are what you want, tho if you right click drag and drop a folder from one place to another and pick symbolic link it works just fine too. Honestly some of the pictures on that page make it look harder than it is in practice.
Note LSE is in active development but for me personally upgrading isn't really a huge priority since nothing the author does can change base functionality, they're mostly UI improvements. LSE itself adds nothing to the base functionality of windows, only exposes the API for easier use by end users. Hard links are used extensively in the windows folder, specifically in relation to the WinSXS folder which is the repository for all the apps and libraries and any other instance of them in the windows sub directories are just hard links to the files in that location, which is why some people think that Win7 (and maybe vista I forget if vista used winsxs) takes up a huge amount of HD space, twice the amount it actually takes up. Symlinks and junctions are used extensively in the user directories to point to your document, music, picture, etc... files. The "change location" tab for these special folders is just a way to change the symlink or junction.
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I plan to host my files on a HDD as it has more storage obviously. So what is the best way to go about having games and other programs that I will use on the HDD and having a symlink or whatever to the HDD on the SSD? Sorry if this is annoying, I'm just obviously not experienced in this so I really don't have a clue as this will be my first SSD rodeo (I just got the SSD a few hours ago.). So unless one of you all is willing to explain this process to me from the start (after the initial windows reinstall, point me to a guide that my little noobie self can use to do all of this goodness.
Do you care to explain then to a noobie the easiest way to go about having programs installed on a HDD and symlinked on the SSD?
EDIT: Also, what is the easiest way to back up current windows settings to use on the reinstall?
Edit2: Another person mentioned putting my windows 7 CD onto a usb flash drive to speed the insall, what is the easiest and best way to do this?
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Install LSE
Install to SSD like normal
Copy folder from program files to HDD
Delete original
Right click drag from HDD to original install location on SSD
From the menu "Drop As..." -> "Symbolic Link" (pretty sure regardless if file or folder you need to do symlink if crossing volume boundaries)
You're gonna have to reinstall windows anyway, I recommend installing LSE now and playing with it some, it's REALLY easy once you just see it in action.
Install to SSD like normal
Copy folder from program files to HDD
Delete original
Right click drag from HDD to original install location on SSD
From the menu "Drop As..." -> "Symbolic Link" (pretty sure regardless if file or folder you need to do symlink if crossing volume boundaries)
You're gonna have to reinstall windows anyway, I recommend installing LSE now and playing with it some, it's REALLY easy once you just see it in action.
You can also right-click on the files on the HDD and select Pick Link Source, then right-click in the destination folder and select Drop as...Junction. It is hard to explain, but easy in practice, so as Dragon said, it is best to just install it and then play around with a few temp folders to get the hang of it.
As far as re-installing Windows, there is no easy way to keep all your settings, etc, which is why a lot of people just clone the existing install to the new drive and keep trucking along. If you do a full install of Windows on the SSD (without the HDD hooked up) you can then hook the HDD back up after it is complete and move files, folders, etc back at your leisure. When I have to do a full install that's what I do, because I always forget something when I try to back stuff up. The built-in Windows backup utility is much improved from previous versions, so you can try using that to back up user folders, settings etc, and then recover them to the new install - but I don't know how well that will work in practice.
There's a longer thread on it here:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1482722
Falcon_CMH
Gawd
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2009
- Messages
- 524
Here are two easy ways to make a USB boot disk for Installing:
Easy to use tool: http://wintoflash.com/download/en/
Manual way (for techies):
Insert a 4gb usb drive or higher in your system that you're ready to format and from an elevanted command prompt do the following:
diskpart
list disk (match your USB disk capacity to determine disk# for the next line)
select disk x (x = disk# from previous line)
clean (clears partition information from the selected disk above including drive letter)
create partition primary
select partition 1
active (makes partition bootable)
format fs=fat32 quick
assign (re-assigns a drive letter to the USB drive)
list volume (this is optional but it will help for the last command if you don't know the re-assigned drive letter)
exit
With your installation disk inserted or your iso mounted, use the assigned drive letter from above and use the following:
xcopy x:\*.* /s/e/f z:\ (x = installation source drive, z = assigned USB drive letter)
Easy to use tool: http://wintoflash.com/download/en/
Manual way (for techies):
Insert a 4gb usb drive or higher in your system that you're ready to format and from an elevanted command prompt do the following:
diskpart
list disk (match your USB disk capacity to determine disk# for the next line)
select disk x (x = disk# from previous line)
clean (clears partition information from the selected disk above including drive letter)
create partition primary
select partition 1
active (makes partition bootable)
format fs=fat32 quick
assign (re-assigns a drive letter to the USB drive)
list volume (this is optional but it will help for the last command if you don't know the re-assigned drive letter)
exit
With your installation disk inserted or your iso mounted, use the assigned drive letter from above and use the following:
xcopy x:\*.* /s/e/f z:\ (x = installation source drive, z = assigned USB drive letter)
It does optimize it, at least as far as things like defrag is concerned. I cloned mine. You do have to be careful about alignment, although if you are coming from Win7 (using Win 7 image backup tools) it should be fine.
I do agree though, a fresh install is best (even if is is more hassle).
Windows 7 is still oddly unfriendly to adding a new hard drive and still makes you jump through hoops to use them. You'd think by now there would be some sort of "new drive detected" wizard that let you initialize and partition a drive without digging into the disk manager.
Anyway empty drives have to be initialized (which if it says MBR it probably has been done) and then you have to create a new volume with the free space on them. That or just throw a Win7 install disk in and chose the SSD as the install drive, all your old data will still be safe on the HDD.
Anyway empty drives have to be initialized (which if it says MBR it probably has been done) and then you have to create a new volume with the free space on them. That or just throw a Win7 install disk in and chose the SSD as the install drive, all your old data will still be safe on the HDD.
